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[simpatico]

Is the PS5 Pro getting mesh shaders? I think Allan Wake 2 is the only time it's come up so far, but if this gen will finally get underway with the game releases it could come into play. Most multiplat devs will probably just skip mesh shaders because the PS doesn't support them, so I suppose we all suffer from that decision.

 

[ChiefDada]

We know high quality assets are constantly streamed in in the Insomniac games, that even the most powerful PC can't brute force completely (as many textures still aren't fully loaded in their highest quality, contrary to what DF are claiming, and this is easily seen in cutscenes). Similar thing is happening in Demon's Souls, they first load the beginning of the level in about 1 sec then the rest is seamlessly loaded during gameplay, without the need of buffer zones.

Exactly. PS5 i/o remains far ahead of high end PC and it goes beyond boot times. It takes 12900k 1+ sec longer than PS5 to boot into game and still the high textures are absent. And this is a cross gen game. Imagine SM2. Worse yet, imagine 1st party exclusives releasing 2025 and beyond.

 

[Lysandros]

Is the PS5 Pro getting mesh shaders? I think Allan Wake 2 is the only time it's come up so far, but if this gen will finally get underway with the game releases it could come into play. Most multiplat devs will probably just skip mesh shaders because the PS doesn't support them, so I suppose we all suffer from that decision.

Mesh shaders are already being used for both PS5 and XSX in games like Avatar and Alan Wake 2 using the same AMD primitive shader hardware.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Is the PS5 Pro getting mesh shaders? I think Allan Wake 2 is the only time it's come up so far, but if this gen will finally get underway with the game releases it could come into play. Most multiplat devs will probably just skip mesh shaders because the PS doesn't support them, so I suppose we all suffer from that decision.

We don’t know the specifics of how Mesh Shaders are handled on PS5 but developers haven’t had a problem implementing them judging by their comments. The underlying hardware is the same. AW2 and Avatar are great examples of this by the way.

I know DF reported that the PS5 Pro documents state it now supports Mesh Shaders but there’s more context to this which I provided in another thread.

On Pro's "Mesh Shader" support :




EDIT :

Simple explanation is that the PS5 Pro's API has a new shader stage to take advantage of RDNA 3's newer geometry engine and mesh shader functionality, more specifically the "Mesh Shader Fast Launch State", which is more in line with DX12 API.

 

[SoloCamo]

Exactly. PS5 i/o remains far ahead of high end PC and it goes beyond boot times. It takes 12900k 1+ sec longer than PS5 to boot into game and still the high textures are absent. And this is a cross gen game. Imagine SM2. Worse yet, imagine 1st party exclusives releasing 2025 and beyond.

Yea but that game sucks.

 

[Fafalada]

I know DF reported that the PS5 Pro documents state it now supports Mesh Shaders but there’s more context to this which I provided in another thread.

True, this is one of the things that gets glossed over by most tech reporting on graphics hw.
Consoles like PS5/Switch basically use GPU assembly as their graphics API - it's a 1:1 mapping of the GPU registers/command I/O - basically nothing is abstracted - you get exactly what hardware sees.
Cross-platform APIs like DX don't do this. An API 'feature' may or may not be mapped directly to hardware feature(s). On the plus side this means you can get 'complex' features that require using the actual underlying featureset in particular way/sequence (you can do that yourself with the above approach - but it can be more work/complexity for developer(s)). On the minus you simply don't get access to some functionality (directly, or at all).
RT stacks are probably where most such differences exist today - but as you note - there's other examples.

But the way most reporting gets done is conflating the two approaches as if they're the same thing - which is just a fast way to generate confusion instead of clarifying anything - irrespective of what features are/aren't actually present in hardware.
Kind of like that DX announcement quoted earlier in the thread for supporting workflows that GNM enabled since 2014 - but hey - PS GPU doesn't have 'name that feature'...

so my guess is that unlike DirectX, Sony's API aligns with the HW behavior, the Primitive Shader API is structured, in a way that can't leverage the architectural change of RDNA3, so Sony divides it as it's own Shader Stage to differentiate the two.

Anyway I don't know anything about PS5 Pro so can't vouch for this hypothesis. But this kind of split has happened to several features in PS4 Pro - where you had to make explicit API call changes to enable the full Pro behaviour (also one of the bigger reasons for why we needed Pro patches and a new SDK revision for it in the first place). Something that DX would ostensibly just abstract away in many cases without having to modify code (though also not always).

 

[truth411]

It's funny that you find it funny when the vast majority of the time the patches post launch generally improve the XSX version compared to the release. On some occasions the improvement has even been dramatic ( aka The Calisto Protocol)

Then, let's put the context:

1- XSX "enjoys" worse tools (Api) than PS5 that can squeeze the maximum and in less time the capabilities of its hardware (although I don't know if calling them "worse" is correct since the purpose of DX12 is more to be a development tool efficient for a multitude of different hardware and that has its counterpart for specific hardware)

2-As assumed and recognized, PS5 is usually the base development platform for most multiplatform games.

3-XSX is usually the platform that enjoys the lowest optimization time vs PS5 and even XSS.

And despite that, you have to have XSX performing the vast majority of times the same as PS5 and on many many occasions being the console version with the best performance.....

I don't think we have to be very enlightened to know how to draw a conclusion about about the capabilities and power of XSX hardware.

This reads like a Butthurt post lol!

 

[truth411]

How is that not considerable? On a 4k tv it definitely makes a noticeable difference in image quality. 1728p can feel like a 4k image (its not obvsly but it looks crisp) whereas 1440p always looks "soft"

Actually 20% more resolution than 1440p is 1578p. Not much of a difference, you can't just take the1440p number and multiply it by x1.2 it doesn't work that way.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Maybe but adding in a lot of AI features could qualify as technically being true

AI can't be there endgame though. As far as gaming goes, AI can and will only do a number of things... image reconstruction, generation, and some assistive stuff with RT and I am sure they can come up with a few more creative things.

But the issue is that once you are able to hit a certain amount of minimum TOPS, you are good. Just look at Nvidia, there is hardly anything AI-related they can't do with their 30xx cards, they just feature lock those cards out so people can buy the newer cards.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Google Remij systemwars.

That's who you're dealing with.

Exactly.

 

[ChiefDada]

Actually 20% more resolution than 1440p is 1578p. Not much of a difference, you can't just take the1440p number and multiply it by x1.2 it doesn't work that way.

I'm not convinced pixel count is a legitimate data point to compare theoretical tflop performance since pixels aren't created equal and more importantly, only one aspect of the frame. Ideally, you would have both machines running identical presets and compare the fps. The frame rate takes into account all processes in the graphics pipeline. I'm leaning towards pixel difference having more to do with Series X bandwidth advantage but only in instances where the game doesnt require gpu memory in excess of 10gb (SX fast memory pool). So any memory bound games will either see series X lower graphics quality and/or resolution. This has been my theory for explaining Callisto Protocol performance results with PS5 able to handle more RT effects.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Of course ps5 is better than xbox, it's not just the brand, it's the games mind you SONY is still recovering from the 360 defeating the PS3 early on and will keep remembering that.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

@Andrea Pessino was spot on and frequents our friendly confines here from time to time.

I remember a certain someone saying he was doing a huge write up about an alien type of game he got to play early and told me a few times in DMs he was friends with Andrea and that he was claiming the PS5 devkits were much much higher TF counts.

Andrea confirmed to me via PMs he had no idea who that guy was

Why does the name Tommy come to mind? That guy was running around in here screaming 13TF. Had me and most people here almost convinced it was close to that number and I believe he even got mod approval to state that. I might be wrong but that's the name that comes to mind. Tommy something. Forgot the whole username

EDIT: Tommy Fisher. That's the guy that was throwing around 13TF for PS5. Not sure if we are speaking of the same person though.

 

[Vroadstar]

This reads like a Butthurt post lol!

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Because Xbox's PR machine knows the average joe is just going to look at the raw TF count (12TF vs 10TF) so they leaned heavily into that.

I remember that PS5 reveal thread and what a dumpster fire it turned into with many an Xbox gaffer saying its going to be worse than Xbox 360 vs PS3 in favour of the Series X.


Who remembers this post from Andrea Pessino?

I love my PS5 but I wouldn't say that has happened either unless you consider fast loading and Dualsense as "one of most revolutionary consoles ever" but SX can load games just as fast.

Now, in terms of the I/o being revolutionary ...has it? The ps5 io seems terribly underutilized to me outside of a few games. We know both consoles can 'handle' UE5 games at the level of the 2020 Unreal demo albeit at 30 fps and not so great resolutions. Sony as a publisher has failed to deliver their own first party games that match or exceed both UE demos and we're 3 montgw shy of the ps5's 4th anniversary.

In their defense, they have criticized the xsx ports plenty. They were the first ones to leak that the devs hated the series s. They reported on its memory issues. Then more recently they have made a big deal out of series x ports of first party xbox games performing better on the ps5. tom morgan literally had a meltdown in one of the videos recently. And richard consistently calls it unacceptable in the DF directs.

They are just fanboys. Just like all the other gaffers here over the years. I see no difference between them and everyone we've banned over the years. The one good thing about them is that they do go to the devs and report on whatever they hear from them. And they dont typically try and hide xbox performing poorly.

Exactly, if they were pro xbox and anti-playstation they would not be saying those things you mentioned. If theres any reason they seem to downplay PS5 Pro it's due to Alex being a PC fanboy.

The general rule with DF is they're first and foremost a business who doesnt want to rock the boat. They could do a lot more good for gamers if they weren't afraid to really speak their mind. They also seem to have an extra special relationship with Xbox so of course they wont go too far with criticism.

They're actaully more an example of what is wrong with todays gaming journalists. No backbone and little integrity to go after these companies when they behave badly. They are generally very soft on Sony devs too.

 

[damidu]

Exactly, if they were pro xbox and anti-playstation they would not be saying those things you mentioned. If theres any reason they seem to downplay PS5 Pro it's due to Alex being a PC fanboy.

The general rule with DF is they're first and foremost a business who doesnt want to rock the boat. They could do a lot more good for gamers if they weren't afraid to really speak their mind. They also seem to have an extra special relationship with Xbox so of course they wont go too far with criticism.

They're actaully more an example of what is wrong with todays gaming journalists. No backbone and little integrity to go after these companies when they behave badly. They are generally very soft on Sony devs too.

nah! they try to hype up xbox over ps at every generation launch without fail, and always end up with their foot in their mouth. they only backpedal mid-gen, when xbox sales collapse
refuse to believe its just a coincidence.
not to mention batusta literally having allergic reactions on camera, whenever the topic of ps5pro is brought up lol

 

[diffusionx]

i wonder if the reason why we havent seen any new PS exclusives is because they are going back to the drawing board and designing their games around the ssd. That means new level design, new ways to store and retrieve level data, and god knows what other gameplay improvements are required to deliver on cerny's vision.

So far, i think ratchet and spiderman 2 have done a somewhat decent job delivering on the ssd promise. i love flying around really fast in spiderman 2 and the portal setpieces in ratchet were kinda cool too. Though neither game is coming even close to maxing out the 5.5 GBps ssd. So i agree, it's not been the paradigm shift cerny had promised us at the road to show conference. You have to wonder if the money spent on the 5.5 GBps ssd wouldve been better spent on a better CPU or GPU or even faster vram. So many PS5 games are dropping to 720p in their 60 fps modes its kinda embarrassing for cerny. I was team 14 tflops back in the day because i knew anything below that would not be enough if devs try and target 60 fps modes with next gen visuals. A 40% more powerful GPU wouldve definitely given us better IQ in performance modes.

P,S The fact that he's gone all in on AI upscaling with the Pro kinda shows that he misread the demand for fast ssds. Had they added an AI upscaler to the PS5 instead of an insanely fast ssd no dev wants to utilize, we might actually have some decent looking 60 fps modes even if the internal resolution had to drop to 720p.

This is totally off base. Why would Cerny be embarrassed? He doesn't know the future. What resolution or fps a game can run on in a fixed piece of hardware is RELATIVE. It is not absolute. For all we know, in the universe where the PS5 is a 14 TF machine, games are still running at 720p and 60fps, just with some extra shiny turned on.

And everyone has gone all in on AI upscaling. Nvidia trumpets their AI upscaling on $1600 GPUs for heaven's sake. The AI algorithms that can be put into the PS5 Pro today, and the chips that enable them, did not exist in 2018-2019 when the PS5 was being developed. DLSS 2.0 was introduced in mid-2020 and was the first time this could be deployed on a large scale.

 

[adamsapple]

Exactly. PS5 i/o remains far ahead of high end PC and it goes beyond boot times. It takes 12900k 1+ sec longer than PS5 to boot into game and still the high textures are absent. And this is a cross gen game. Imagine SM2. Worse yet, imagine 1st party exclusives releasing 2025 and beyond.

Is that PC example using Direct Storage ?

With DS enabled, the PC version of Forbidden West loads faster, for reference:

 

[Topher]

Is that PC example using Direct Storage ?

With DS enabled, the PC version of Forbidden West loads faster, for reference:

Also, is Spider-man even using Direct Storage. We know Ratchet and Clank: A Rift Apart does but I haven't seen anything mention Spider-man.

This list suggests the answer is no.

https://steamdb.info/tech/SDK/DirectStorage/

 

[SKYF@ll]

I love my PS5 but I wouldn't say that has happened either unless you consider fast loading and Dualsense as "one of most revolutionary consoles ever" but SX can load games just as fast.

Many third party games do not use the PS5 I/O and instead load using the CPU.
By utilizing I/O and Kraken compression, install size and load times can be significantly reduced.
Here is a table listing the sizes and load times of some games:

 

[Darsxx82]

Many third party games do not use the PS5 I/O and instead load using the CPU.
By utilizing I/O and Kraken compression, install size and load times can be significantly reduced.
Here is a table listing the sizes and load times of some games:

Not only are a huge number of games missing from that list, it is also an incomplete list and totally limited in its analysis. It doesn't even indicate what those loading times refer to. From the console OS to the game menu? Menú to gameplay? Loads between missions? fast travel?? I already told you that depending on one thing or another, that table is very far from expressing the reality of the load times in the different games.

 

[SKYF@ll]

Not only are a huge number of games missing from that list, it is also an incomplete list and totally limited in its analysis. It doesn't even indicate what those loading times refer to. From the console OS to the game menu? Menú to gameplay? Loads between missions? fast travel?? I already told you that depending on one thing or another, that table is very far from expressing the reality of the load times in the different games.

Those loading times are "Continue from Dashboard".
https://www.youtube.com/@OpenSurprise/videos

 

[SKYF@ll]

Not only are a huge number of games missing from that list

No one has compiled a list of all game load times and install sizes yet.
Here's another one for reference.
Although it is not on the list, PS5 exclusive games utilize I/O, so the startup time is very fast, about 3 to 10 seconds. (FF7, Nioh, Death stranding & Sony's games, etc.)

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

"So, based on our conversations, the combination of a more efficient GPU compiler, lower-level APIs and higher clock speeds allows PlayStation 5 to match or even exceed the outputs of Xbox Series X in some scenarios."

How is this news? This has been evident since forever.

I'm more confused why we are splitting hairs on console performance for machines this old anyway. We need new consoles. The gap between modern PCs and these consoles is beginning to feel excessively wide.

 

[Darsxx82]

No one has compiled a list of all game load times and install sizes yet.
Here's another one for reference.
Although it is not on the list, PS5 exclusive games utilize I/O, so the startup time is very fast, about 3 to 10 seconds. (FF7, Nioh, Death stranding & Sony's games, etc.)

There are many sites on YouTube where loading times are analyzed in different situations. Drawing a conclusion regarding how long it takes for the OS to load the game in most cases is wrong. Among other things, because there are a large number of games on PS5 where the starting credits screens are reduced and that is why the diference

In that list there are examples of games where (what really matters) the loads between missions or fast travel loads are very similar and just one or cuple seconds apart. That is, the list does not reflect reality.

PS.Not to mention that the resolution data in that list is far from being faithful because it show errors and andis not very precise and it doesn't mention different game modes.

 

[Bojji]

Is that PC example using Direct Storage ?

With DS enabled, the PC version of Forbidden West loads faster, for reference:

Yep, DS/RTX IO is the answer here and most devs don't fucking use it.

Also, is Spider-man even using Direct Storage. We know Ratchet and Clank: A Rift Apart does but I haven't seen anything mention Spider-man.

This list suggests the answer is no.

https://steamdb.info/tech/SDK/DirectStorage/

Nope, Spider Man is brute forcing things on CPU compared to using decompression/IO hardware on PS5. Direct Storage was made to address this issue (at least to some extend).

They added RTX IO in Ratchet so Nixxes are aware of this.

 

[existensmaximum]

I'm more confused why we are splitting hairs on console performance for machines this old anyway. We need new consoles. The gap between modern PCs and these consoles is beginning to feel excessively wide.

Since nobody is taking advantage of the PS5 power and architecture by actually making exclusive games optimized for it only, yeah I guess you're right.

 

[Topher]

Yep, DS/RTX IO is the answer here and most devs don't fucking use it.



Nope, Spider Man is brute forcing things on CPU compared to using decompression/IO hardware on PS5. Direct Storage was made to address this issue (at least to some extend).

They added RTX IO in Ratchet so Nixxes are aware of this.

Yeah, really sucks more PC devs are not taking advantage of DS and RTX IO.

 

[Loomy]

This was literally explained by Cerny in Road to PS5.

Or admitting whoever wrote the script out of Xbox HQ didn't have a clue

Again I go back to watching the Road to PS5 and Ybarra and Jason Ronald literally laughing at the PS5 SSD solution saying Sony spent more time and money customizing that and were going to lose every head to head game matchup because of the power advantage the Series X had (I don't recall their exact wording but it was close to this)

Everyone wasted so much time comparing 10.XX TFLOPS vs 12 TFLOPS and based their predictions on that. I think when next gen is announced we need to remind ourselves that most of us don't know wtf we're talking about.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Everyone wasted so much time comparing 10.XX TFLOPS vs 12 TFLOPS and based their predictions on that. I think when next gen is announced we need to remind ourselves that most of us don't know wtf we're talking about.

Those of us who DO tried to tell y’all.

 

[Gaiff]

Since nobody is taking advantage of the PS5 power and architecture by actually making exclusive games optimized for it only, yeah I guess you're right.

Yeah, really sucks more PC devs are not taking advantage of DS and RTX IO.

Well, according to Nixxes, it's kinda shit so there's a good reason it hasn't seen widespread adoption. At least GPU decompression, which is the big difference maker, is crap. Not surprising since it's Microsoft and they're utter garbage at developing software.

 

[diffusionx]

I'm more confused why we are splitting hairs on console performance for machines this old anyway. We need new consoles. The gap between modern PCs and these consoles is beginning to feel excessively wide.

Gap between PC and console is smaller than ever.

 

[SonGoku]

I was team 14 tflops back in the day because i knew anything below that would not be enough if devs try and target 60 fps modes with next gen visuals. A 40% more powerful GPU wouldve definitely given us better IQ in performance modes.

I too was a proponent for 13TF+ GPU but if anything Cerny has been proven right.
Its shown how much of an impact die size had on price on the 7nm and below nodes and also gave them flexibility respond to the Series S with a $400 DE PS5

Also the shortage of semiconductors we experienced all the way from 2020 to late 2022. If PS5 APU was bigger there would have been even less availability

The fact that he's gone all in on AI upscaling with the Pro kinda shows that he misread the demand for fast ssds.

The SSD is something that must be equal across Pro and Base and besides like you pointed out no game have fully tapped into PS5 SSDs capabilities yet. I'll save my judgement for the second half of the generation with actual current gen only games

 

[Arioco]

Is the PS5 Pro getting mesh shaders? I think Allan Wake 2 is the only time it's come up so far, but if this gen will finally get underway with the game releases it could come into play. Most multiplat devs will probably just skip mesh shaders because the PS doesn't support them, so I suppose we all suffer from that decision.

The Matrix Awakens demo and Avatar Frontiers of Pandora (only on consoles, not on PC) also use mesh/primitive Shaders.

FFVII Rebirth uses Primitive Shaders too, this is exclusive e though.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Is that PC example using Direct Storage ?

With DS enabled, the PC version of Forbidden West loads faster, for reference:

In this case of a traditionnal loading, a high end PC (like the one the right) should still have a slight edge against PS5 because this is pure I/O bandwidth we are comparing. But notice that a sill powerful PC (on the left) is behind and that the PC on the right has like a CPU 3 times more powerful than PS5 CPU so it can decompress a lot of data (and the SSD is actually faster with 7.4 vs 5.5). In this case PS5 I/O decompressors are doing about the same job as that $500 CPU. But in the case of streaming during gameplay PS5 I/O still has the edge because here what's important is the latency of the pipeline which is still much better on PS5 as shown in Spiderman comparison.

For streaming things during gameplay, during even the frame being rendered, nothing on PC is beating PS5 I/O super low latency.

 

[Starbuck2907]

Hey guys, the PS5 is GPU limited in Dragons Dogma 2. Xbox runs much better.

Is Dragon's Dogma 2 finally fixed with patch 7 for PS5 and Series X/S?

Oliver Mackenzie tests Dragon's Dogma 2 after patch 7 - is the game finally fixed, and what differences remain between the PS5, Series X and Series S versions?

www.eurogamer.net

See? Each console has strengths and weaknesses. Sometimes the extra power does matter and some games (as they said) run better in PS5.

 

[Radical_3d]

I'm more confused why we are splitting hairs on console performance for machines this old anyway. We need new consoles. The gap between modern PCs and these consoles is beginning to feel excessively wide.

I bought a PC with a 1060 in 2016, three years after the release of the PS4, that ran circles around my PS4. 4 years after the release of PS5 we have the 4060. Not only Moore Law no longer applying but the PC market has gone bananas since the crypto, the pandemic, the super conductor crisis and what not.

Hey guys, the PS5 is GPU limited in Dragons Dogma 2. Xbox runs much better.

Is Dragon's Dogma 2 finally fixed with patch 7 for PS5 and Series X/S?

Oliver Mackenzie tests Dragon's Dogma 2 after patch 7 - is the game finally fixed, and what differences remain between the PS5, Series X and Series S versions?

www.eurogamer.net

Except in CPU limited scenarios where the PS5 runs better.

 

[Hoddi]

Also, is Spider-man even using Direct Storage. We know Ratchet and Clank: A Rift Apart does but I haven't seen anything mention Spider-man.

This list suggests the answer is no.

https://steamdb.info/tech/SDK/DirectStorage/

FWIW, I wouldn't read too much into that list. It just means that a game was built on the SDK but many games on that list never actually load the DirectStorage DLLs. Diablo 4 and EAFC24 both ship with those files but do not ever load them, for example.

Edit: I just checked Diablo 4 and it has apparently started supporting DS. Must be a new thing because it didn't a few months ago.

 

[Lysandros]

Hey guys, the PS5 is GPU limited in Dragons Dogma 2. Xbox runs much better.

Is Dragon's Dogma 2 finally fixed with patch 7 for PS5 and Series X/S?

Oliver Mackenzie tests Dragon's Dogma 2 after patch 7 - is the game finally fixed, and what differences remain between the PS5, Series X and Series S versions?

www.eurogamer.net

See? Each console has strengths and weaknesses. Sometimes the extra power does matter and some games (as they said) run better in PS5.

DF is always very eager to point to GPUs in such cases in order bolster their original assessment of both machines. Not much so when the opposite happens of course... First, XSX is still running with a noticeably lower image quality in this game so it isn’t apples to apples. Second, PS5 runs better in towns. But yes, even in the matter of GPUs each system's hardware is slightly ahead or behind depending on the throughput. Neither system has a clear cut whole GPU advantage over the other.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

Gap between PC and console is smaller than ever.

Uhh... no.

 

[Katatonic]

The only time the Xbox held an obvious power advantage was with the OG. Even then, the PS2 specific features like analog buttons and hardware specific FX made some of the PS2 ports more fun to play.

A lot of times the OG would get ports of the PC versions which were kinda lame, whereas PS2 would get its own versions which used it's advantages better. NFS: Hot Pursuit 2 comes to mind.

 

[adamsapple]

Except in CPU limited scenarios where the PS5 runs better.

The CPU limited area difference is reduced from 10~% to 4.9~% with the latest update, with the fixed IQ bug now, while the GPU delta remains the same 10% in xbox's favor.

 

[diffusionx]

Uhh... no.

yes.

 

[Physiognomonics]

The CPU limited area difference is reduced from 10~% to 4.9~% with the latest update, with the fixed IQ bug now, while the GPU delta remains the same 10% in xbox's favor.

Is the IQ bug completely fixed now? Anyways the problem is having a better framerate in towns in more important as the framerate is quite lower there. With VRR working the difference starting from 45fps won't be felt. Besides, XSX has 10% the edge in GPU limited areas while having 18% more compute and 25% more bandwith (when the edge should be much bigger with both those specs as seen when comparing PS4 Pro vs X1X where the gap could get quite big GPU demanding games). And PS5 is running better in CPU limited areas with a weaker CPU that can potentially be even more downlocked according to years old Internet FUD!

There is a real hardware inefficiency problem on Xbox, not only software. Compilers should not be a problem in strictly GPU limited areas as both should have the same for the GPU. And DF should have made some journalistic work there, if they were not biased like they are. I remember them doing quite the leg (bad) work analysis when some PS4 games had problems with AF. This was litteraly a bug but obviously DF always implied it was some kind of hardware bottleneck, for years and they never corrected their years long errors and lack of true journalistic work, a simple interview with one developer would have sufficed. Later some have done this real reporting and found out developers were forgetting to activate a higher level of AF because it was done differently than with Xbox APIs.

Saying compilers are better on Sony side only work for CPU limited areas, not GPU where Xbox should have like a 50% advantage combining compute and bandwidth edge. In purely compute scenarii XSX has a small edge but PS5 has usually the edge again when hardware RT is used! What's happening here?

 

[Darsxx82]

Is the IQ bug completely fixed now? Anyways the problem is having a better framerate in towns in more important as the framerate is quite lower there. With VRR working the difference starting from 45fps won't be felt. Besides, XSX has 10% the edge in GPU limited areas while having 18% more compute and 25% more bandwith (when the edge should be much bigger with both those specs as seen when comparing PS4 Pro vs X1X where the gap could get quite big GPU demanding games). And PS5 is running better in CPU limited areas with a weaker CPU that can potentially be even more downlocked according to years old Internet FUD!

There is a real hardware inefficiency problem on Xbox, not only software. Compilers should not be a problem in strictly GPU limited areas as both should have the same for the GPU. And DF should have made some journalistic work there, if they were not biased like they are. I remember them doing quite the leg (bad) work analysis when some PS4 games had problems with AF. This was litteraly a bug but obviously DF always implied it was some kind of hardware bottleneck, for years and they never corrected their years long errors and lack of true journalistic work, a simple interview with one developer would have sufficed. Later some have done this real reporting and found out developers were forgetting to activate a higher level of AF because it was done differently than with Xbox APIs.

Saying compilers are better on Sony side only work for CPU limited areas, not GPU where Xbox should have like a 50% advantage combining compute and bandwidth edge.

It has not been completely resolved but there is improvement. And that improvement has not translated into worse framerate, quite the opposite because it has improved in moments where the CPU was limiting. That is, it is telling you that the problem was certainly not hardware deficiencies LOL.
It's funny because this situation has occurred continuously and has always been resolved contrary to what you wanted to say. In AVATAR you said the same thing and it was resolved by keeping XSX the advantage on Drs. For not remembering what was said with Calisto Protocol and it turns out that in a month the performance in XSX became "extraordinarily" (because it was supposedly impossible due to hardware deficiencies ) 100% better vs launch
But hey! XSX is a box of technical deficiencies

PS. DF has updated the analysis of DD2 patch 7

In purely compute scenarii XSX has a small edge but PS5 has usually the edge again when hardware RT is used! What's happening here?

I think it's time for you to review more games because it is the lie that some of you are continually repeating and it is not the reality.

 

[SKYF@ll]

The CPU limited area difference is reduced from 10~% to 4.9~% with the latest update, with the fixed IQ bug now, while the GPU delta remains the same 10% in xbox's favor.

It's interesting that the video shown when DF points out a 4.9%(PS5 advantage) is actually a frame rate difference of around 10~20%.
Capcom still has a lot to improve, such as the IQ issue with the XSX, pop-in and frame rate on both the PS5 and XSX.

 

[adamsapple]

In purely compute scenarii XSX has a small edge but PS5 has usually the edge again when hardware RT is used! What's happening here?

I think that's just conjecture on your part. There is no 'usual' in favor of either console. UE5 based games with Lumen like Lords of the Fallen, First Descendent etc have better performance on SX.

If your example of a game with RT being better on PS5 is Elden Ring, that's not a new game, that's a 2 year old game and none of the consoles saw any kind of engine optimizations between the launch and the DLC release, so it's a poor example to use.

 

[Darsxx82]

I think that's just conjecture on your part. There is no 'usual' in favor of either console. UE5 based games with Lumen like Lords of the Fallen, First Descendent etc have better performance on SX.

If your example of a game with RT being better on PS5 is Elden Ring, that's not a new game, that's a 2 year old game and none of the consoles saw any kind of engine optimizations between the launch and the DLC release, so it's a poor example to use.

Diablo IV, Control, Deathloop, Metro Exodus, Guardian of the Galaxy, The Wtcher 3, Lego Builders, Marvel Avengers, REremakes, RE Village...
to name a few games with better RT performance in XSX and all with different graphics engines.

The reality is that as a general rule RT modes tend to perform very very very similar on both consoles, eliminating any blatant cases of lack of optimization or even neglect of some Studio. But it seems that these cases are enough for someone to believe that they can draw conclusions and even make it seem like that is the norm.

 

[adamsapple]

Diablo IV, Control, Deathloop, Metro Exodus, Guardian of the Galaxy, The Wtcher 3, Lego Builders, Marvel Avengers, REremakes, RE Village...
to name a few games with better RT performance in XSX and all with different graphics engines.

The reality is that as a general rule RT modes tend to perform very very very similar on both consoles, eliminating any blatant cases of lack of optimization or even neglect of some Studio. But it seems that these cases are enough for someone to believe that they can draw conclusions and even make it seem like that is the norm.

I think the one new game that has come out in the last 12 months with RT that objectively ran the RT areas better on PS5 was P3 Reload but that was only in one location of the entire game with RT reflections.

Again, there is no 'usual' on either side.

 

[ChiefDada]

I think that's just conjecture on your part. There is no 'usual' in favor of either console. UE5 based games with Lumen like Lords of the Fallen, First Descendent etc have better performance on SX.

The Lords of the Fallen DF Analysis summary courtesy of...... you:

- Series X:
- Every area where Series S dropped in 30s or 40s, SX retains 60 FPS almost entirely.
- Same stress boss battle can drop to mid 40s where Series S dropped to mid 20s
- Resolution: Dynamic 1152p with lowed 684p. DRS can reach higher when looking at sky.
- Hitching and traversal stutters still present, can have full game pauses to 00 FPS for a few seconds.
- Closing and restarting the game fixes this.

- PS5:
- Identical to SX in visual setting and general frame rate testing
- Hitching and frame time spikes are reduced over either Xbox consoles on PS5
- Same areas which see bigger lurches on either Xbox have smaller/minor ones comparatively.