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[lucbr]

So Xbox can improve as the problem is more with tools and API access than with the hardware itself?

Anyway, I think PS will always have the advantage as developers will target the one who sells most. Also, Xbox has PC, Series S and X while developets can focus one one machine with PS5.

For me It's surprising, with those arguments, that Xbox can keep up and in many cases surpasses PS. And more impressive is the fact that it does consuming 30% less power. And it's smaller and quieter. Those engineers did a great job!

 

[GHG]

So Xbox can improve as the problem is more with tools and API access than with the hardware itself?

Anyway, I think PS will always have the advantage as developers will target the one who sells most. Also, Xbox has PC, Series S and X while developets can focus one one machine with PS5.

For me It's surprising, with those arguments, that Xbox can keep up and in many cases surpasses PS. And more impressive is the fact that it does consuming 30% less power. And it's smaller and quieter. Those engineers did a great job!

Riky or darkmage alt?

I know that Cerny is a great engineer and architect but sometimes I wonder why the Xbox guys don't receive the same praise.

Based on some comparatives both machines are quite similar, sometimes one better than the other. However, Xbox is smaller, quieter and most importantly, according to DF, consumes less power, sometimes much less, when running the same game. For me, the X seems better design and nobody talk about the Xbox architects. I never heard who they are. Is Jason Ronald the main architect?

I might have expressed myself wrong. I am a big fan of hardware design and wouldn't dismiss it. For instance, I think that the Series X was very well built machine. Even though it has similar performance to the PS5, it has a reduced size, quieter, and most importantly, consumes much less energy while running the same games. It's very efficient machine.

Coming from the energy area I am honestly much more impressed with the XSX hardware and congratulate its engineers. In launch models, running the same games and sometimes with better performance, the XSX spends up to 27% less energy than the PS5 (here's how much power your consoles use). It's an impressive difference. That, in my opinion, reflects an excellent design. Not to mention the volume and reduced noise.

Hope that the PS5 have improved with its newest revisions.

DF: The Quarry - The DF Tech Review. PS5 vs Series X vs Series S

AJ gaming does the power comparison, it's Series X that actually is more power efficient in like for like comparison even when pushing higher resolutions. Kind of expected since XSX ships with the lower wattage PSU. The XSS is really sipping power for this game. With the DRS and 30fps...

www.neogaf.com

 

[adamsapple]

The Lords of the Fallen DF Analysis summary courtesy of...... you:

SX has higher average frame rate but more 'traversal' style hitches than PS5.


The launch DF coverage is pretty much useless for that game now, they turned it around almost entirely with the 1.5 overhaul.

 

[RoboFu]

16 mega power!!!!!

 

[ChiefDada]

So Xbox can improve as the problem is more with tools and API access than with the hardware itself?

Anyway, I think PS will always have the advantage as developers will target the one who sells most. Also, Xbox has PC, Series S and X while developets can focus one one machine with PS5.

For me It's surprising, with those arguments, that Xbox can keep up and in many cases surpasses PS. And more impressive is the fact that it does consuming 30% less power. And it's smaller and quieter. Those engineers did a great job!

That's quite a high level of mental gymnastics achieved in this post. Amazing.

 

[Boglin]

So Xbox can improve as the problem is more with tools and API access than with the hardware itself?

Anyway, I think PS will always have the advantage as developers will target the one who sells most. Also, Xbox has PC, Series S and X while developets can focus one one machine with PS5.

For me It's surprising, with those arguments, that Xbox can keep up and in many cases surpasses PS. And more impressive is the fact that it does consuming 30% less power. And it's smaller and quieter. Those engineers did a great job!

From what I can gather, the Xbox has a more advanced cooling system that utilizes a large vapor chamber which probably costs quite a bit more than the PS5's cooling system. I haven't seen the PS5 get much praise at all regarding its comparative size or power usage.

What the PS5 does get praise for is having a smaller and less expensive APU that oftentimes outcompetes the larger more expensive one in the Xbox.

 

[ChiefDada]

SX has higher average frame rate but more 'traversal' style hitches than PS5.

Huh!? Wtf is Tom talking about "PS5 still runs worse..." and somehow evidence for that seemingly important data point didn't make it into the actual comparison video?? These guys can be the most amateur of professionals sometimes I swear.

 

[adamsapple]

Huh!? Wtf is Tom talking about "PS5 still runs worse..." and somehow evidence for that seemingly important data point didn't make it into the actual comparison video?? These guys can be the most amateur of professionals sometimes I swear.

The game has been pretty much completely overhauled with the 1.5 update. The original DF coverage is non-applicable at this point. 99% of the original issues are gone now. Both consoles run better than at launch, Xbox got a much bigger boost cause it was in a much worse state at launch (frequent near 0 fps stutters, which are all fixed now). Now, SX has higher performance on average but PS5 has less frequent stutters.

 

[kazuyamishima]

So Xbox can improve as the problem is more with tools and API access than with the hardware itself?

Anyway, I think PS will always have the advantage as developers will target the one who sells most. Also, Xbox has PC, Series S and X while developets can focus one one machine with PS5.

For me It's surprising, with those arguments, that Xbox can keep up and in many cases surpasses PS. And more impressive is the fact that it does consuming 30% less power. And it's smaller and quieter. Those engineers did a great job!

The PS2 was the leading console for programming but that didn’t impeded Xbox and GameCube to perform better on Multiplatform games.

Get your stuff together, it’s impressive that the PS5 keeps performing the way it is, not the other way around.

 

[onQ123]

So Xbox can improve as the problem is more with tools and API access than with the hardware itself?

Anyway, I think PS will always have the advantage as developers will target the one who sells most. Also, Xbox has PC, Series S and X while developets can focus one one machine with PS5.

For me It's surprising, with those arguments, that Xbox can keep up and in many cases surpasses PS. And more impressive is the fact that it does consuming 30% less power. And it's smaller and quieter. Those engineers did a great job!

This is what DF want you to think but for the most part this has nothing to do with PS5 being treated better.

You haven't seen what will happen when the focus shifts to PS5 & higher end PCs with SSDs yet .


MS know it's coming that's why they made plans to release Brooklyn with a faster I/O before they decided to jump ship earlier for next generation.

 

[lucbr]

Riky or darkmage alt?

DF: The Quarry - The DF Tech Review. PS5 vs Series X vs Series S

AJ gaming does the power comparison, it's Series X that actually is more power efficient in like for like comparison even when pushing higher resolutions. Kind of expected since XSX ships with the lower wattage PSU. The XSS is really sipping power for this game. With the DRS and 30fps...

www.neogaf.com

So I can't be consistent? SX consumes much less energy and performs similar. So, for me, as a consumer who paid the same for both, is a better built machine.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

yes.

Sounds like you need a new pc, and to witness ray tracing.

 

[th4tguy]

Xbox runs games in a container like setup. It’s what allows for the level of backwards compatibility they have even with different hardware. Downside is, things are a more expensive to run sometimes.
If the sx was running with the exact same hardware as a ps5, the ps5 would outperform the sx every time because of the os differences.

 

[SKYF@ll]

UE5 based games with Lumen like Lords of the Fallen, First Descendent etc have better performance on SX.

The First Decendant was patched to fix the framerate drops on PS5.
For UE5 games, I think the performance on PS5 and XSX is similar and there is no obvious difference.
Both consoles lack a bit of GPU power to run UE5 games at 60fps.

 

[diffusionx]

Sounds like you need a new pc, and to witness ray tracing.

If you want to see a big leap between pc and console look at the late 90s or 00s. I have a PC with ray tracing, shinier reflections and shadows is not moving the needle.

Plus you factor in that games today are mostly ports with the console as a baseline, and PC hardware is updated less frequently than ever, yes the gap is smaller than ever.

 

[adamsapple]

The First Decendant was patched to fix the framerate drops on PS5.
For UE5 games, I think the performance on PS5 and XSX is similar and there is no obvious difference.
Both consoles lack a bit of GPU power to run UE5 games at 60fps.

The PS5 version of FD was dropping around 18~20 more frames, would love to see a new comparison post-patch. That either sounds like a horrendous memory leak or some sheer bad optimization.

 

[PeteBull]

So Xbox can improve as the problem is more with tools and API access than with the hardware itself?

Anyway, I think PS will always have the advantage as developers will target the one who sells most. Also, Xbox has PC, Series S and X while developets can focus one one machine with PS5.

For me It's surprising, with those arguments, that Xbox can keep up and in many cases surpasses PS. And more impressive is the fact that it does consuming 30% less power. And it's smaller and quieter. Those engineers did a great job!

Tools will save xsx same way power of the cloud did save xbox one, oh wait...

 

[Darsxx82]

Tools will save xsx same way power of the cloud did save xbox one, oh wait...

I don't think XSX needs anything to be saved at this point. Even with worse tools. Even though it is the platform that receives the least priority in terms of optimization. Even though PS5 is usually the base platform for the vast majority of multiplatforms (with devs confirming both things and becoming evident with different cases that have occurred) .
The overall gaming performance results on the XSX have nothing to envy of what the PS5 offers in that regard.
Another thing is that some of you want to see another reality and come here to try to implant the narrative that XSX is hardware full of inefficiencies and that games choke compared to PS5. However, reality and the results say otherwise, even despite all the negative conditions cited that exist against XSX.

 

[Darsxx82]

The PS5 version of FD was dropping around 18~20 more frames, would love to see a new comparison post-patch. That either sounds like a horrendous memory leak or some sheer bad optimization.

Imagine if it were the opposite and the affected one were XSX, would be enough for some regulars to come here to point out hardware inefficiencies that are impossible to resolve with future patches and optimization


Indeed, the PS5 problems in the First descendant clearly had to do with some type of software failure that has been resolved relatively quickly. That said, what is a trend is that UE5 games tend to launch in a fairly good state of optimization on XSX or at least there are no blatant cases of lack of a minimum of attention and optimization (removing Lord of Fallen where the same Studio acknowledged that it released the unfinished XSeries version). We will see in the future if this continues.

 

[PeteBull]

I don't think XSX needs anything to be saved at this point. Even with worse tools. Even though it is the platform that receives the least priority in terms of optimization. Even though PS5 is usually the base platform for the vast majority of multiplatforms (with devs confirming both things and becoming evident with different cases that have occurred) .
The overall gaming performance results on the XSX have nothing to envy of what the PS5 offers in that regard. Maybe say that the opposite is more true.

Another thing is that some of you want to see another reality and come here to try to implant the narrative that XSX is hardware full of inefficiencies and that games choke compared to PS5. However, reality and the results say otherwise, even despite all the negative conditions cited that exist against XSX.

Bro, it was a joke, series x has same problem xbox one had, just its much worse at that point- exactly 0 high quality exclusives, it affects console sales in really strong way, and from there its downhill to the abyss where jaguar, wiiu and other failed consoles are burried.
For context look at switch, its not even 1/3rd of xbox one(2013 weaksauce console) power, but it sold gangbusters at 300$ coz it provided customers with high quality exclusives- its the sole reason, not if series x is 18% more or less powerful.

 

[Darsxx82]

Bro, it was a joke, series x has same problem xbox one had, just its much worse at that point- exactly 0 high quality exclusives, it affects console sales in really strong way, and from there its downhill to the abyss where jaguar, wiiu and other failed consoles are burried.
For context look at switch, its not even 1/3rd of xbox one(2013 weaksauce console) power, but it sold gangbusters at 300$ coz it provided customers with high quality exclusives- its the sole reason, not if series x is 18% more or less powerful.

We are in a place where detecting jokes or sarcasm is for the select few. I'm not one of them .

That said, I think the topic of the thread and the discussion has nothing to do with the quality of first party Xbox games and sales. Although it is true that being the console with the smallest user base always has collateral effects in terms of priority in optimization.

Then, in the problem of the Xbox sales situation there are many other factors that perhaps have even had more effect than the level or number of first party games (day one games on PC, total lack of marketing, continuous controversies, lack of clarity in strategy, games on PS5...). Although that's a discussion for another thread.

 

[PeteBull]

Then, in the problem of the Xbox sales situation there are many other factors that perhaps have even had more effect than the level or number of first party games (day one games on PC, total lack of marketing, continuous controversies, lack of clarity in strategy, games on PS5...). Although that's a discussion for another thread.

Sure but lets imagine the unimaginable scenario, aka xbox(not gamepass, but literally console xbox series) has true exclusivity on elden ring(and its xpack), and u know for sure it will have gta6 as exclusive too(no pc ports, just on xbox consoles), then myself and other milions of players would easily fork out 500 or even 800bucks/euro for the console coz we need to play those musthave games, thats the difference vs current xbox- 0 such games so obviously no1 is swayed to buy xboxconsoles.

 

[Physiognomonics]

It's interesting that the video shown when DF points out a 4.9%(PS5 advantage) is actually a frame rate difference of around 10~20%.
Capcom still has a lot to improve, such as the IQ issue with the XSX, pop-in and frame rate on both the PS5 and XSX.

Yeah it doesn't look like the fps delta is reduced in towns indeed with the latest update, or not that much. Seems DF did a bit of cherry picking here, not shocking. Also those 50ms frame-time spikes are not good on XSX. Can't be hidden with VRR. On the other hand on PS5 the game must feel quite playable now with VRR + LFC at near 40fps in towns.

 

[DJ12]

It has surely taken more than a year, and will still ultimately b one of those end-generation post-mortem-type things that concede to how the PS5 was better designed... but I guess they got there eventually.

Took more than a year, bet lolost.

It's only come to light now as MS has stopped paying these people to keep the narrative going.

This article could've come out after the first batch of launch games and been exactly the same.

 

[Darsxx82]

Sure but lets imagine the unimaginable scenario, aka xbox(not gamepass, but literally console xbox series) has true exclusivity on elden ring(and its xpack), and u know for sure it will have gta6 as exclusive too(no pc ports, just on xbox consoles), then myself and other milions of players would easily fork out 500 or even 800bucks/euro for the console coz we need to play those musthave games, thats the difference vs current xbox- 0 such games so obviously no1 is swayed to buy xboxconsoles.

Precisely, that is why I was pointing out that the situation of Xbox sales is not reduced only to the quantity and quality of first party games that are now beginning to be released in an unquestionable quantity. If XSeries had its own games that are not released on any other platform (not day one on PC), more marketing, more clarity in the strategy, not launching games on PS5... it is clear that it would be selling more or at least as much more than XBO.

It's interesting that the video shown when DF points out a 4.9%(PS5 advantage) is actually a frame rate difference of around 10~20%.
Capcom still has a lot to improve, such as the IQ issue with the XSX, pop-in and frame rate on both the PS5 and XSX.

In the same video you have parts where the difference is 0% or a difference of 1 or 2fps in the same area. That's what it's like to use a specific screeshot of a specific moment and claim that DF were being dishonest about the % general average in the footage captured.

You can make a similar screenshot where XSX leads PS5 by more than 10% in GPU limiting areas and it does not change that this is the general average or that, at times, PS5 can show the same fps.

 

[Lysandros]

It's interesting that the video shown when DF points out a 4.9%(PS5 advantage) is actually a frame rate difference of around 10~20%.
Capcom still has a lot to improve, such as the IQ issue with the XSX, pop-in and frame rate on both the PS5 and XSX.

Of course. The usual DF reflex/framing. They simply can not be objective at presenting the data at hand.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

If you want to see a big leap between pc and console look at the late 90s or 00s. I have a PC with ray tracing, shinier reflections and shadows is not moving the needle.

Plus you factor in that games today are mostly ports with the console as a baseline, and PC hardware is updated less frequently than ever, yes the gap is smaller than ever.

Real ray tracing looks like a genuine generational leap compared to the very low draw distance reflection only crap consoles get. Not only that, but the resolution difference is absolutely significant. Especially with FSR and DLSS (set to their highest quality settings, anyway). It's enough where the same game's can look drastically superior on the PC.
I recently went from FF7 remake on pc, with 4k and a high framerate, to ps5 FF7 rebirth. The drop in quality, all around, was so significant I about stopped playing it. Low overall resolution, significantly lower texture quality, and an erratic framerate.
Performance mode is just downright fugly.
It felt like stepping backwards a generation.

That Harrington experience, among others, does nothing but solidify to me that the canyon is wide.

 

[Starbuck2907]

XSX is still running with a noticeably lower image quality in this game so it isn’t apples to apples.

Same graphics preset. From the article: “Similar to other GPU-limited areas of the game, the PS5 runs somewhat slower than Series X with the low preset.”

 

[Lysandros]

Huh!? Wtf is Tom talking about "PS5 still runs worse..." and somehow evidence for that seemingly important data point didn't make it into the actual comparison video?? These guys can be the most amateur of professionals sometimes I swear.

Tom and evidence... What a match.

 

[SKYF@ll]

The PS5 version of FD was dropping around 18~20 more frames, would love to see a new comparison post-patch. That either sounds like a horrendous memory leak or some sheer bad optimization.

YouTubers have been uploading videos of the post-patch.
It would be nice to see a comparison video of DF or IGN.