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VGLeaks: Durango GPU detailed

JJD

Member
I don't know about you guys, but I'm actually more interested than ever to read more on these other hardware helpers. The DME's (4 of them) the Display planes (3 of them, each capable of different resolutions) etc... Who knows what else. Perhaps a Hana chip 2.0 that that up scales games to 4K resolution. I guess the Special Sauce is not one specific thing, but rather a combo of minor things that when working in tandem makes for a formidable result.

And Kinect jokes aside, really now, the potential of super accurate body, finger and facial/lip tracking has me stoked. Think of the possibilities. Add Kinect 2.0 tracking and voice recognition with the rumored Project Fortaleza VR glasses and we might be in for some serious and unique gaming experiences. Can't wait.

Concerning the secret sauce thing, going by aegis and proelite posts it really was a misunderstanding with the new naming.

But you're right that we don't know much about the dysplay planes and move engines.

Still people far more knowledgeable than me said in this thread that they doubt those two features would make Durango more powerful than Orbis.
 
I'm still predicting that Microsoft will take the profitable power route and sell each console without taking a hit.

The key difference is that they will use the business model proven by Apple to work, which is to release incremental hardware updates.
Instead of seeing a slim console, you'll actually see a more powerful unit that makes you existing games run better and after several years developers can choose to phase out support for the older slower hardware should they so choose.

This way you can cater for the casual gamers, who'se games presumably don't need to be as shiny, whilst continuing to give the real hardcore games constantly improving graphics , whist also forcing your competitors into a bit of an awkward spot when you effectively have an endless generation that has several inherent years of backwards compatible games and a huge userbase sitting behind you.

This model would also support the notion that they are going to try and sell subsidised units via phone shops and cable suppliers, who will always have a customer at the end who can upgrade to the newest console for free/cheap.

I actually think that as a console gamer it would actually be pretty cool to go out and get the newest console, boot up your favourite game and discover it's now playable at 60fps when it wasn't before.

Of course, if this was Microsoft's intention, we wouldn't hear anything of for a couple of years.

I'm definitely thinking along similar lines and I'd be cool with that too.
 
There is absolutely no way Durango is weaker than the WiiU man.

I'm willing to bet.

wait, what??? that's not what I'm saying at all. But GAF isn't adding WiiU to the equation and they should at least until we know something real about Sony's and MS's next offerings.

One other thing to consider is third party partnerships. MS has done pretty well this gen with getting timed exclusives and whether ppl like it or not it has given them a slight edge.
 

onQ123

Member
I do not think it is true or the WiiU would be selling like crazy and instead is in trouble.Let's say for once the truth without hypocrisy power and graphics are the most important things to the launch of a new console to attract users.The Wii was just a fluke.

Wii U isn't 3X more powerful than the Xbox 360.
 

Valnen

Member
Maybe if you had said 720p or higher I'd have agreed...unless you're talking about computer monitors and not TVs

Whenever I look around in an electronics store it seems the vast minority of TV's are 720p. These days it's 1080p or bust. Also, computer monitors are a great option for consoles but games won't look very good due to console games being 720p. Back then though, yeah, a lot of HDTV's were still 720p.
 

oldergamer

Member
Where are the TMU's in the diagram? these diagrams are not made by MS and are not complete.


People need to stop freaking out. Orbis is not 50% faster, that's totally retarded.
 
Whenever I look around in an electronics store it seems the vast minority of TV's are 720p. These days it's 1080p or bust. Also, computer monitors are a great option for consoles but games won't look very good due to them being 720p. Back then though, yeah, a lot of HDTV's were still 720p.

I see the opposite. Sure the 30" and under are 720p, but there are like 1080p monitors at the same price.
 

JJD

Member
I'm definitely thinking along similar lines and I'd be cool with that too.

On the other Durango tech thread a guy with some insider ties said that MS was betting heavy on games despite the Durango being a little weaker than Orbis. He even mentioned 2 games that would make long waiting fans very pleased.

I'm fine with that. It's kinda like the approach that Sony took this gen. And I loved the PS3 for this.

Despite all the complaining the Durango won't be in a Wii like situation. It's still powerful.

If MS brings the games I'll be there.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
Yeah, the only place to find 720p TVs now is on the internet.

Anyway, if the next Xbox is weaker than the PS4, then I don't think it's going to have that big of an impact. Many 3rd party devs are going to cater to whatever does well in America; I doubt the gap will even be that noticeable anyway. The system will still be a big improvement over the predecessor.

So basically, what was the case with the PS3 & Xbox 360.
 

ekim

Member
On the other Durango tech thread a guy with some insider ties said that MS was betting heavy on games despite the Durango being a little weaker than Orbis. He even mentioned 2 games that would make long waiting fans very pleased.

I'm fine with that. It's kinda like the approach that Sony took this gen. And I loved the PS3 for this.

Despite all the complaining the Durango won't be in a Wii like situation. It's still powerful.

If MS brings the games I'll be there.

Did he mention the name of the titles? I guess Alan Wake 2 and... I don't know... Forza 5?
 

PSGames

Junior Member
For those curious about where people are getting that Durago may be more expensive to manufacture than Orbis even tho it's not as powerful. There's an entire thread dedicated to it on Beyond3D: http://beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62921

Basically the added complexity of the esram/edram, move engines, etc.. could make the die sizes larger thus the same price or possibly even more expensive than Orbis depending on yields of course.

Any thoughts?
 

Ding-Ding

Member
I don't see why eveyone's arguing. Wasn't there something about MS not allowing 3rd parties to release superior games on other systems? Pretty sure their games will look and perform the same.

Except for 1st party games.

Kind of. They reserved the right to withould release.

However, doesn't mean they would enact it though. With a small fry publisher, yeah that little rule could bully the publisher into playing ball.

Against a big publisher and a big title, not a chance. They wouldn't have the balls

"GTA6 exclusive to PS4 as MS threw its toys out of the pram" Nah...
 

Mr Swine

Banned
Wait... Why is MS releasing a weaker console then PS4? Xbox was more powerful than PS2, Xbox360 is on par with PS3 and now Xbox720 is weaker than PS4? I thought MS was going to one up Sony on this
 

JJD

Member
Did he mention the name of the titles? I guess Alan Wake 2 and... I don't know... Forza 5?

I asked him if he knew the titles but he said he didn't.

I guessed that Alan Wake was one of then.

Frankly I would buy a 720 day one for AL. Loved that game.
 

oldergamer

Member
Kind of. They reserved the right to withould release.

However, doesn't mean they would enact it though. With a small fry publisher, yeah that little rule could bully the publisher into playing ball.

Against a big publisher and a big title, not a chance. They wouldn't have the balls

"GTA6 exclusive to PS4 as MS threw its toys out of the pram" Nah...

sony did the same thing with ps2.
 

QaaQer

Member
Wait... Why is MS releasing a weaker console then PS4? Xbox was more powerful than PS2, Xbox360 is on par with PS3 and now Xbox720 is weaker than PS4? I thought MS was going to one up Sony on this

theory #1: market positioning, aka going for the blue ocean casual gimmicky types. The xbox will have a kinnect2 as pack-in + a reasonable price. Kinnect2 = less money for the rest of the console.

theory #2: MS wants to put a version of windows8 on it so that it will be a seemless part of their new metro ecosystem. Because they needed 3GB for the OS, they had to go with ddr3, which is slow because 8GB of ddr5 is way to expensive and hot, and split memory pools don't work well.

theory #3: both of the above.
 
Yeah, the only place to find 720p TVs now is on the internet.

Anyway, if the next Xbox is weaker than the PS4, then I don't think it's going to have that big of an impact. Many 3rd party devs are going to cater to whatever does well in America; I doubt the gap will even be that noticeable anyway. The system will still be a big improvement over the predecessor.

So basically, what was the case with the PS3 & Xbox 360.

Pretty much. It will come down to whether or not Sony has anything that makes American gamers want it over an Xbox. Clearly this gen they didn't. Really looking forward to seeing what games, controllers, and services that each company attempts to lure us in with.
 
Wait... Why is MS releasing a weaker console then PS4? Xbox was more powerful than PS2, Xbox360 is on par with PS3 and now Xbox720 is weaker than PS4? I thought MS was going to one up Sony on this


Wii proved "graphics don't matter." MS is gambling they can abandon the tech performance lead to Sony, as long as they stay close enough to be relevant to third parties, and focus on other non-gaming features they believe will catch the interest of people beyond the "hardcore" crowd. They think this strategy will lead to more profits than had they just tried to one up Sony in the flops warz.
 

tinfoilhatman

all of my posts are my avatar
No I didn't. I was just in Fry's on Friday, plenty of 720p models. Sure more 1080p models but to say 720p is rare is quite an exaggeration.

VERY VERY few 720p TV in retail stores here in the states only small screens or weird off brand manufactures.
 
If you narrow the search down to Best Buy items, most of those TVs are available at most of the Best Buys near me.

must be a giant best buy, because all my local best buys have part of one isle that has 720p tvs.

my local Costco doesn't have any 720p tvs at all.

edit: just looked through the those tvs, most of them are 32in or smaller. Only a handful that are bigger.
also a lot of them are refurbished products.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
Wait... Why is MS releasing a weaker console then PS4? Xbox was more powerful than PS2, Xbox360 is on par with PS3 and now Xbox720 is weaker than PS4? I thought MS was going to one up Sony on this

If they are then it will more than likely be due to the simple fact that it can lead to a more attractive price in comparison to the PS4, causing better sales which will more than likely lead to more support from devs.
 

tinfoilhatman

all of my posts are my avatar
If they are then it will more than likely be due to the simple fact that it can lead to a more attractive price in comparison to the PS4, causing better sales which will more than likely lead to more support from devs.

They better hope they can price this thing in the 299$ range or else their screwed from the core gaming community and I'll only have a single console under my TV for the next 5-6 years and it'll be PS4.......dumb dumb dumb move by Microsoft if they can't price this thing incredible cheap.

and If PS4 has no BC then their really screwed it's iOS and maybe PC gaming for me
 

Drek

Member
In what way? I'd have thought final specs would now be pretty much locked down at this stage.

They're supposedly still considering a bump up to 8GB of ram.

For those curious about where people are getting that Durago may be more expensive to manufacture than Orbis even tho it's not as powerful. There's an entire thread dedicated to it on Beyond3D: http://beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62921

Basically the added complexity of the esram/edram, move engines, etc.. could make the die sizes larger thus the same price or possibly even more expensive than Orbis depending on yields of course.

Any thoughts?
That discussion also ignores the extra costs they'll incur if they do include Kinect with every system as well.

I'd imagine they'll both retail for pretty much the same MSRP. Microsoft is betting on additional media services, their handful of core gamer IPs, and XBLA to move the system. Sony is betting on a slight hardware edge and their own broader selection of first party IPs.
 

AkIRA_22

Member
Sony's first party output should destroy whatever MS studios will come up with at this point.

But I can't understand why MS would let Sony have such an edge.

Price? Xbox 3 could be 50 dollars cheaper... That's significant. Most 3rd party titles would look nearly identical, PS3 will just run smoother and have better 3D. 1st party Sony will be nuts though.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
In what way? I'd have thought final specs would now be pretty much locked down at this stage.

RAM amount may go up (although I think that's unlikely), RAM configuration is still being decided on, and blu-ray drive speed may change. Nothing too major unless the extra RAM happens but the system is still more likely to change than Durango is.
 

Ding-Ding

Member
sony did the same thing with ps2.

Yes they did but they also had a massive marketshare, so it was easily enforced

This generation, the 2 systems have been close enough in sales, that neither manufacturer would dare to risk losing a big title over something like that. Case in point GTA4 (360 advantage) & FF13 (PS3 advantage)
 

alphaNoid

Banned
I expect more from a console in 2013. Hell I expect more from ANY consumer electronic in 2013. My smartphone can do more than these consoles, and faster most of the time. Its a media hub, its a remote control, is a social device, its a gaming device, its many more things as well. To me, a console in 2013 that focuses mostly on the gaming experience is a failure waiting to happen. It sounds great on paper, or in nerdy fantasies but the reality is.. consumers expect more these days. The proof is out there today, look at what people are buying. Look at what kids are begging their parents for and what Grandparents are finally deciding to buy into. Its smartphones, tablets and other mobile devices that do a hell of a lot more than gaming. These use unified account systems, social integration right into the OS's, media functionality, all of which are now daily common things to use. A gaming device coming out in 2013 that is expected to last for several years has to be able to offer similar capabilities or its dead on arrival. You can look directly at WiiU complaints about infrastructure and OS complaints for what I'm talking about. People just expect more these days, slow OS's, lousy content offerings, terrible unified account systems etc..

Consumers actually notice these things now, and 7 years ago they weren't remotely on their radar. The market has changed.

My next gen console better be able to at least match what my smartphone can do, or do it better. Apps should launch in seconds or milliseconds. Social integration should be tight, infrastructure and OS platform should be efficient, optimized and future proof. Cloud services need to be dialed in, and be readily available on a multitude of devices/platforms. All of those need to be there, and need to be AAA top tier software. No nonsense, no launch bugs, no working out the kinks or upgrades in a year. Out of the box, both Sony and Microsoft need to have a product that is up to date in the modern technology market. A console that plays online, has access to movies/tv/music isn't enough. That was 2005. The goddamn OS's need to be written from the ground up to serve these features on a golden platter and wow the consumer. The architecture, infrastructure, operating systems and longevity of all of them better be treated as in high regard as a AAA game. Hire the best, pay for the best and expect the best.

No more excuses, no more hiding behind a thin veil pretending that game consoles are the exception to the rule.

Outside of the standard gaming, social, marketplace stuff I personally would like to see real media center functionality built in. I'm currently running a few devices to serve up my media center needs. I want to cut off Cable tv for good, give me something that serves up online streaming content in one aggregated interface. No more launching Netflix, launching HBO Go, launching Hulu Plus. All that shit should integrate into 1 interface. Give me DVR capabilities, give me software and OS functions that can match what phones have been doing for years.

Give me 1 box to rule them all.

I'm giving both Sony and Microsoft a solid chance, whoever brings the best 'device' gets my money. So far it seems that Microsoft is designing the kind of device that I want in the year 2013, but thats just based on rumors. For all I know Sony got their shit ready to roll too and maybe even better than MS. What I dont want is a console that is focused entirely too much on gaming content. Yea, I just said that. Thats a limited device that belongs in the 1990s .. and its not the 1990s any longer. Give me a console designed for 2013 and beyond.

Give me 1 box to rule them all.
 

CLEEK

Member
720p is still more common than 1080p in 32" and smaller TVs. I recently did some TV shopping for a small TV for out family room, so know this for a fact.
 

Darryl

Banned
Wait... Why is MS releasing a weaker console then PS4? Xbox was more powerful than PS2, Xbox360 is on par with PS3 and now Xbox720 is weaker than PS4? I thought MS was going to one up Sony on this

they are one-upping Sony. they're gonna force developers to concentrate on their platform, wasting all of that extra potential from Sony's console while keeping a lower price point.
 

Hanmik

Member
alphanoid..? you are aware that you just posted that on a gaming forum.. for gamers.? I think I know neogaf as much to say, that most neogaffers want a gaming console.. not an overgrown mobilephonetablethybridthingy..
 
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