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[TheRagnCajun]

If the new xbox has mandatory full installs, then how can they not have some sort of online verfication? Otherwise, people would be buying their games and selling them again immediatly after install.

The physical disc will be useless to anyone else after install. I don't see another way. I don't think used games are going to work.

 

[kinggroin]

You guys are seeing something that's not even there. At least not yet.

From that article or document, taken at face value, it doesn't indicate mandatory online or that once a disc is installed, its tied to a console.

I mean, shit fellas, try some critical thinking and common sense before knee jerk and hysteria for a chnage. Ya know, wait for the actual reveal before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Haggis]

Lol, attach rate of 360 is what, 15 games? 15 x 8 GB = 120 GB In a best case scenario you get 500 GB, anything above makes no sense.

You know full well next gen is going to be using higher capacity disks like Blu-Ray. So if we use your math and say games average 25GB and I suspect most will be North of that you are looking at 200GB so I think you are right in the HD size shipping with the console will probably be 360 to 500GB in size and it's only the core crowd that will require a 1 to 2 TB drive. However if the rumored DVR functionality ships with the console it may ship with a larger drive for at least one model of the system.

 

[ekim]

If the new xbox has mandatory full installs, then how can they not have some sort of online verfication? Otherwise, people would be buying their games and selling them again immediatly after install.

The physical disc will be useless to anyone else after install. I don't see another way. I don't think used games are going to work.

you need the disc in tray for authentication. Just like on the 360.

 

[c0de]

If you can only play games from the hard disk, what's the point in having a Blu-Ray drive?

Watching movies, for example. And deliver many bytes with worthy content via a well-knowm media.

 

[Haggis]

If the new xbox has mandatory full installs, then how can they not have some sort of online verfication? Otherwise, people would be buying their games and selling them again immediatly after install.

The physical disc will be useless to anyone else after install. I don't see another way. I don't think used games are going to work.

I hope they just have it so the disk needs to be in the tray similar to what they do on the 360 when you install the games.

 

[dragonelite]

Even if these rumours are correct, I can still see the NextBox outselling PS4 in the US and UK markets.

Look at the new Sim City - clearly the worst in the series with despicable DRM problems, but record sales for the series.

Because people didn't know about it.
And we should have seen something was wrong when the beta was only limited for one hour.

 

[Cheech]

If you can only play games from the hard disk, what's the point in having a Blu-Ray drive?

I have a 100 meg connection at home, and I don't really relish the thought of 40 gig downloads. Tons of people with 1 meg connections.

Also, Blu Ray movies will be around for quite some time.

Was this a serious question?

 

[UrbanRats]

Because people didn't know about it.
And we should have seen something was wrong when the beta was only limited for one hour.

People knew it was "always online" though.
What they didn't know is that it wasn't gonna work, but it's not like that'll get advertised.. ever.

 

[Tripp Daily]

My daily exposure to ads is minimal. I have unavoidable billboard ads at the train station on my commute, but in my working day, I see little to no advertising. I use adblock, so that covers me for web sites. I might flick through a news paper, but ads there are easily skippable by a quick turn of the page.

I watch little OTA TV, and when I do, its often on ad free channels. The vast majority of my watching is downloaded. If I play games, Xbox 360 aside, I have zero ads.

So when something like the 360 Metro dsah comes along, and is a fucking Adageddon, it is horrific. Bare in mind, the sheer volume of ads you get in America is far, far higher than any other country I've lived in. So it might seem like nothing much to you, but to my eyes, is appalling.

I understand that ads that hinder your ability to do something or are thrown at you in buckets can be annoying (see: Gametrailers), however, I do not think that the 360 dash puts up ads that are obtrusive or hinder you ability to navigate around the system. I think people complaining about the ads on the 360 dash are just looking for a reason to bash Microsoft.

 

[Bgamer90]

If the new xbox has mandatory full installs, then how can they not have some sort of online verfication? Otherwise, people would be buying their games and selling them again immediatly after install.

The physical disc will be useless to anyone else after install. I don't see another way. I don't think used games are going to work.

Installs for better overall performance while at the same time still needing the disc -- which is true for the Xbox 360.

In terms of used games, I could see the ability to play used games being tied into XBL in some way. I guess we will find out soon.

Overall, I definitely believe that there will be some new restrictions (with both the Next Xbox and PS4) but I don't think that there will be a full on block of used games.

 

[LukasTaves]

always on

Always on does not necessarily mean online is required. It could mean the console will always keep everything updated, even when turned of.

The documentation talks about required Kinect, but has no mention about online being a requirement, that's already something

 

[DigitalOp]

Why do some gamers simply don't understand the massive ramifications of these practices. The damn company is fighting against you, like. Seriously what the fuck?

We had the biggest example of this shit with EA a couple weeks ago!! Simcity can only be played while connected online, and in the biggest irony of the situation, it was EA their damn selfs who didn't have the servers up and running. The game was UNPLAYABLE, First adopters bought a $60 PAPERWEIGHT at launch.

Why are people defending this shit? What the fuck is wrong with you? Why don't you get it? When you enable companies to pull shit like this and receive a profit, they take it and run

Its so ironic that those who "aren't bothered" or think others are
"blowing it out of proportion" will be the first ones to complain when the situations been exacerbated to no return. And ill point at that userbase and say "how dare you"

Yes, nothing is confirmed but the potential is so damaging , it needs to stop now before it even starts.

I'm upset because my hobby since childhood is going down the drain, and it seems like everyones all gung ho for it....

 

[Miles Quaritch]

If the new xbox has mandatory full installs, then how can they not have some sort of online verfication? Otherwise, people would be buying their games and selling them again immediatly after install.

The physical disc will be useless to anyone else after install. I don't see another way. I don't think used games are going to work.

RFID? Transfer of licence from disc to account? There are a few ways to achieve this approach offline.

 

[Haggis]

Installs for better overall performance while at the same time still needing the disc -- which is true for the Xbox 360.

In terms of used games, I could see the ability to play used games being tied into XBL in some way. I guess we will find out soon.

Overall, I definitely believe that there will be some new restrictions (with both the Next Xbox and PS4) but I don't think that there will be a full on block of used games.

Agreed. Plus having no used games would kill their retail chain. EB and to a lesser degree Wallmart and the liks, rely heavily on used games for their $.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Why do some gamers simply don't understand the massive ramifications of these practices. The damn company is fighting against you, like. Seriously what the fuck?

We had the biggest example of this shit with EA a couple weeks ago!! Simcity can only be played while connected online, and in the biggest irony of the situation, it was EA their damn selfs who didn't have the servers up and running. The game was UNPLAYABLE, First adopters bought a $60 PAPERWEIGHT at launch.

Why are people defending this shit? What the fuck is wrong with you? Why don't you get it? When you enable companies to pull shit like this and receive a profit, they take it and run

Its so ironic that those who "aren't bothered" or think others are
"blowing it out of proportion" will be the first ones to complain when the situations been exacerbated to no return. And ill point at that userbase and say "how dare you"

Yes, nothing is confirmed but the potential is so damaging , it needs to stop now before it even starts.

I'm upset because my hobby since childhood is going down the drain, and it seems like everyones all gung ho for it....

What the hell are you talking about? Nothing in the documentation says you are required to be online to play games.

Jesus, calm down and put those unjustly frayed emotions to one side.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

If the new xbox has mandatory full installs, then how can they not have some sort of online verfication? Otherwise, people would be buying their games and selling them again immediatly after install.

The physical disc will be useless to anyone else after install. I don't see another way. I don't think used games are going to work.

It's not useless,it's "during gameplay, games will not use content from optical disc",but i don't think authentication is part of "gameplay"

Like what ekim said,i think it just like 360,but required install this time

 

[Robot Pants]

Gaming is almost dead, folks.
The doom and/or gloom is upon us.
Hurry up with HL3, Valve so I can retire forever.

 

[DigitalOp]

What the hell are you talking about? Nothing in the documentation says you are required to be online to play games.

Jesus, calm down and put those unjustly frayed emotions to one side.

What you don't seem to understand despite clues being all in your face is that this is the next step. It may not be now, but it will get there. Its not a guess, its a promise dude

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I doubt now. Really doubt.

You'd be suprised what MSFT's monstrous marketing budget can do.

 

[maximum360]

install is in ps4 too.

This thread is hilarious. It's like people are trying so hard to hate on Microsoft that they totally ignore a similar issue on another platform. I guess hating MS is the cool thing to do again.

I'll probably get both the 720 and PS4 as I did with the 360 and PS3 this gen so these threads will continue to amuse until the reveal. I'l probably need to break out the extra large popcorn come E3 though.

 

[DeFiBkIlLeR]

Well, anything that brings the day closer that the current incumbents of Microsoft's Xbox & Windows division are cleared out the better.

This is just the latest example of hubris causing them to lose the plot.

Kinnect,Windows 8 and now this, good riddance to bad rubbish I say.

Microsoft is going down the toilet with Steve Balmer at the helm.

 

[strata8]

This thread is hilarious. It's like people are trying so hard to hate on Microsoft that they totally ignore a similar issue on another platform. I guess hating MS is the cool thing to do again.

I'll probably get both the 720 and PS4 as I did with the 360 and PS3 this gen so these threads will continue to amuse until the reveal. I'l probably need to break out the extra large popcorn come E3 though.

People will use any excuse they find to jump on a company they dislike.

Case in point, the post above.

 

[dragonelite]

So let me guess everybody will just throw away their smartphone and tablets right now?

 

[sunnz]

This thread is hilarious. It's like people are trying so hard to hate on Microsoft that they totally ignore a similar issue on another platform. I guess hating MS is the cool thing to do again.

I'll probably get both the 720 and PS4 as I did with the 360 and PS3 this gen so these threads will continue to amuse until the reveal. I'l probably need to break out the extra large popcorn come E3 though.

Probably more to do with it is confirmed that you can play games totally offline on the ps4, not so sure about the NextBox.

 

[DeFiBkIlLeR]

Case in point, the post above.

If you are referring to me, I've spent thousands on MS products over the years, I don't hate them at all, but I do hate the current bunch of pricks in charge.

Right now the company stinks of arrogance.

 

[archnemesis]

So let me guess everybody will just throw away their smartphone and tablets right now?

What's the comparison you're trying to make? My smartphone isn't connected to anything at the moment.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Probably more to do with it is confirmed that you can play games totally offline on the ps4, not so sure about the NextBox.

Sony games, yes. Any kind of forced online is open for publishers.

 

[Pachimari]

I really don't see where you guys get this "always online" stuff?

The article says "Always on, always connected". That could probably mean that if you're system is online it'll always be able to update your games and operating system even in standby state just like the PlayStation 4. But if you're not connected with ethernet or WiFi, then it simply won't update. I still don't think an online connection is mandatory but I could be wrong.

But these informations rub me the right way. I love Kinect and it being mandatory could be cool, as it'll probably be integrated more. And it sounds like they're next controller is based on the 360 controller, so that's probably alright as well. I can't wait, getting excited!

 

[Robot Pants]

Right now the company stinks of arrogance.

Hey! Just like Sony circa ps3 launch! How the tables have turned!

 

[RukusProvider]

The PS4 does installs in the same manner and there is a PS Eye watching you but hey.......hivemind has been well established...

 

[Cheech]

Why do some gamers simply don't understand the massive ramifications of these practices. The damn company is fighting against you, like. Seriously what the fuck?

I would tell you to buy a PC, but Steam operates pretty much the same way as these new consoles are going to.

Again, Nintendo has a system that meets your needs, since always online or whatever seems to be of paramount importance to you. Literally every other platform is going to work like Steam soon, so either get used to it, or enjoy endless Mario rehashes and Kirby Shits Rainbows III.

 

[Kyoufu]

The PS4 does installs in the same manner and there is a PS Eye watching you but hey.......hivemind has been well established...

Did Sony say you can't play games from the Blu Ray disc?

 

[CaptainFalafel]

I really don't see where you guys get this "always online" stuff?

The article says "Always on, always connected". That could probably mean that if you're system is online it'll always be able to update your games and operating system even in standby state just like the PlayStation 4. But if you're not connected with ethernet or WiFi, then it simply won't update. I still don't think an online connection is mandatory but I could be wrong.

But these informations rub me the right way. I love Kinect and it being mandatory could be cool, as it'll probably be integrated more. And it sounds like they're next controller is based on the 360 controller, so that's probably alright as well. I can't wait, getting excited!

Probably from this:

The console will be ready instantly when users want to play, and will always maintain a network connection so that console software and games are always current.

But I do agree with you that I don't think it's going to be mandatory.

 

[Unknown One]

PS EYE is not confirmed to be bundled with the system at all.

 

[KidBeta]

Did Sony say you can't play games from the Blu Ray disc?

I don't believe so, nor would they, I suspect near the end some games might go with a solution that uses both the disc and HDD on the PS4.

 

[Dr D Wayne Love]

If you can only play games from the hard disk, what's the point in having a Blu-Ray drive?

I'm sure it will come in handy when installing the games.

 

[SpaceHobo]

If the new xbox has mandatory full installs, then how can they not have some sort of online verfication? Otherwise, people would be buying their games and selling them again immediatly after install.

The physical disc will be useless to anyone else after install. I don't see another way. I don't think used games are going to work.

You're trying to hard.

Discs will be used for authentication just like they are now.

 

[surly]

Did Sony say you can't play games from the Blu Ray disc?

Yeah, a Sony system would never have forced installs.....

If the new xbox has mandatory full installs, then how can they not have some sort of online verfication? Otherwise, people would be buying their games and selling them again immediatly after install.

The 360 has optional full installs for all disc-based games, but there's no online verification. Just because the installs become mandatory doesn't mean they'll use online verification either. It could work in the same way as the 360 - the disc in the drive is used to prove that you own the game, but it plays entirely from the hard drive.

 

[Uno Venova]

People playing the semantics game ignore that other sources, that have proven accurate, have indicated the same thing.

EDGE: The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray discs and new Kinect

Sorry, but one would have to be rather blind, deliberately or otherwise, to not see the parallels between this information and the information in EDGE's article.

Yep, It's pretty much what's been going on from the start, if someone mentions online being mandatory, a response of "not in the OP, reading comprehension!" is guaranteed, luckily this XDK isn't the only credible rumor out there and people are smart enough not to pay attention to only one solitary rumor.

 

[DigitalOp]

I would tell you to buy a PC, but Steam operates pretty much the same way as these new consoles are going to.

Again, Nintendo has a system that meets your needs, since always online or whatever seems to be of paramount importance to you. Literally every other platform is going to work like Steam soon, so either get used to it, or enjoy endless Mario rehashes and Kirby Shits Rainbows III.

I would go PC, its mad expensive though and pretty much suffers from a couple of these practices with select games

I'm going retro though, PRE PS1 through emulation, and POST PS1 up to Vita3DSWiiU through physical retail

Its all good, they were the better games anyway back then

I'm seriously waiting for all this to backfire, I'm really salty right now but I can't wait to see other people meltdown when they witness the state of the industry

 

[The Blue Jihad]

What you don't seem to understand despite clues being all in your face is that this is the next step. It may not be now, but it will get there. Its not a guess, its a promise dude

Take a deep breath, and use proper punctuation.

The fiascos with Diablo 3 and SimCity--and the ensuing backlash, proved that THEIR DRM model is the wrong way to go. That notion of "no offline play" is toxic for any publisher, developer, etc. Further, Blizzard and EA explicitly confirmed that players would have to be online in order to play (even though EA got called out on that one lol).

In this situation, there is ZERO indication that's the same case. Yet people, like yourself, are FLYING off the handle, reading statements that haven't been made, seeing things that haven't actually been said, and launching into absurd tirades when we still don't know anything for sure. But I guess that's simply how it goes around here. People don't think. They just react.

Look, nobody is saying that it isn't possible these nightmare scenarios couldn't happen. They absolutely could. We've seen big publishers push in that direction already--but keep in mind how badly that turned out for them.

What we're saying is read what's been actually said, and don't just jump to the worst case scenario based on what you *think* was implied.

 

[Flame Lord]

Probably from this:


But I do agree with you that I don't think it's going to be mandatory.

Don't the PS3 and Wii already do that?

 

[synce]

Haha I had a feeling there would be people trying to spin this against Sony somehow, even though the Diablo 3 guy said you can play it offline on PS4.

As for mandatory installs? Although I doubt PS4 will have them, even if it did this is not the big issue with either console. You don't have to sit through the install in either one.

On the topic of capacity I have something like 50 complete PS3 games on my 750GB, and I doubt next-gen games will get bigger since movie files (responsible for the biggest games being the biggest games) will be rarer.

 

[statham]

PS EYE is not confirmed to be bundled with the system at all.

nothing is confirmed, but vgleaks that you believe says this

its almost sure that it will be bundled with every orbis system

http://www.vgleaks.com/orbis-dual-camera-whats-this/

 

[operon]

Why do some gamers simply don't understand the massive ramifications of these practices. The damn company is fighting against you, like. Seriously what the fuck?

We had the biggest example of this shit with EA a couple weeks ago!! Simcity can only be played while connected online, and in the biggest irony of the situation, it was EA their damn selfs who didn't have the servers up and running. The game was UNPLAYABLE, First adopters bought a $60 PAPERWEIGHT at launch.

Why are people defending this shit? What the fuck is wrong with you? Why don't you get it? When you enable companies to pull shit like this and receive a profit, they take it and run

Its so ironic that those who "aren't bothered" or think others are
"blowing it out of proportion" will be the first ones to complain when the situations been exacerbated to no return. And ill point at that userbase and say "how dare you"

Yes, nothing is confirmed but the potential is so damaging , it needs to stop now before it even starts.

I'm upset because my hobby since childhood is going down the drain, and it seems like everyones all gung ho for it....

Your losing the plot and ready to organise the villagers to go down to MS headquarters with pitchforks and burn them to the ground over "potential". NO where in this XDK ( the part we can see) does it say you can't play games without a network connection, no where. Without any facts people are adding 2 + 2 and getting 5. I really couldn't care if there is a permanent connection that constantly updates games etc as long as I an play offline should my isp have a problem. No used games I'll be one of the first in to complain but we have no concrete facts to suggest this at all.

 

[MasLegio]

PS EYE is not confirmed to be bundled with the system at all.

not directly confirmed but it is fairly easy to make that assumption from all official information regarding PS4, mostly the design and marketing of the controllers (especially being shown together with the PSeye)

 

[i-Lo]

I am certain that the game installation would be akin to PC/PS3 system and not the XB360 like. The leak could simply be interpret as major data being streamed off of the HDD rather than BD. It makes sense given the increased sizes of assets and not a proportional rise in the disc read speed. Plus both gamers and developers want to provide better performance such as mitigation of graphical issues that have always plagued immersion (such as pop in of all sorts). It is both logical and of benefit to gamers if the game installed (not copied as a whole as it is with 360) on HDD.

I really do not know why some people are getting bent out of shape. I think PS4 may allow for the game to be installed in the background (a la GT5) as one starts playing and XB3 will most likely do the same.

Expect both next gen consoles to do the inevitable. I just fear MS's proprietary HDD bullshit however.

 

[dragonelite]

What's the comparison you're trying to make? My smartphone isn't connected to anything at the moment.

Tablets and smartphones are also called always online/connected.
That is the point im making your smartphone still works.

I am certain that the game installation would be akin to PC/PS3 system and not the XB360 like. The leak could simply be interpret as major data being streamed off of the HDD rather than BD. It makes sense given the increased sizes of assets and not a proportional rise in the disc read speed. Plus both gamers and developers want to provide better performance such as mitigation of graphical issues that have always plagued immersion (such as pop in of all sorts). It is both logical and of benefit to gamers if the game installed (not copied as a whole as it is with 360) on HDD.

I really do not know why some people are getting bent out of shape. I think PS4 may allow for the game to be installed in the background (a la GT5) as one starts playing and XB3 will most likely do the same.

Expect both next gen consoles to do the inevitable. I just fear MS's proprietary HDD bullshit however.

Have you tried diablo 3?

You start the install the installer begins downloading diablo 3 but it starts with the start of the story
and when it thinks that you can start playing it will let you play while continue downloading and installing later levels.
My guess is durango will also work like that.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

MS aren't going to clarify 'always connected' if it means mandatory Internet requirement to help drm. They'll use the vague term 'always connected' in a positive light all the way upto consumers buying the product and finding out on pg 38 of the maual, troubleshooting, that a connection is mandatory.

I'll link this again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hx07coihqA&t=53m0s

"Always Connected" probably doesn't mean what half of you think it does.