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Vice-Presidential Debate |OT| The Big F$@*ing Deal vs. The Randian from Dairyland

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B

Barbacoatl

Banned
I was reading this morning an article that said that while Obama might be tired, Biden sure as hell wants another 4 years as VP. He sure showed some guts unlike the prez.
 
E

East Lake

Member
CrankyJay said:
So basically the more aggressive person is the most convincing regardless of content.
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It helps. I don't know that people want aggression but rather emotion. Obama was a fuckin downer in the last debate and even though Joe was smug in this one it seemed like he actually gave a shit. Ryan was more convincing than Obama but still sounded like he was just rehearsing memorized lines instead of getting fired up and flexing those p90x muscles. Barack gets way more fired up in his rallies, but I guess he thought the low-key shit would work. Didn't turn out so well.
 
H

helloresolven

Member
Anton Sugar said:
Some gif just the first 2 secs--great business-time serious change in his face.
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WKlfu.gif


FTInx.gif


HJsLO.gif
 
R

Red Blaster

Member
smurfx said:
obama can't come out aggressive like biden did today. he has to look cool but at the same time he needs to be constantly making romney defend his positions and his flip flopping. make people aware of how full of crap he really is.
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Obama can never ever ever look like an angry black man
 
H

h1nch

Member
Tragicomedy said:
I'm an independent. Socially liberal and fiscally conservative.

I don't think either side knocked it out of the park, nor will this debate have a very meaningful impact come November. Each made their points.

Biden tried to belittle Ryan and make him out as an inexperienced little child who wouldn't provide specifics. Mission accomplished there. But he definitely came across as too condescending at times, much like Mitt Romney did against Obama in their first debate. He did what he came to do.

Ryan tap danced around the tougher questions he had no specifics to answer, but did a good job of framing Biden and Obama as finger-pointers who can't accomplish their lofty goals and therefore blame everything on Bush (four years ago) and the Republicans in Congress. He did what he came to do.
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You're the DEVIL!

I mostly agree with your assessment, though I found it telling that Ryan was unable to respond when Biden started poking holes in his statements. Whether or not Americans will recognize that or just chalk it up to "Biden's an asshole" is anyone's guess.
 
V

Vicetrailia

Banned
Veezy said:
Exactly.

Let's be clear, Biden did what Biden needed to do. He came out, did the whole "I'm a regular blue collar guy" thing and gave that work Ryan. This is for two reasons:

1. To energize the base after Obama's inability to call out Romney more during their debate.
2. To make Ryan look stupid. Remember, Ryan is the "numbers" guy. This is who everybody was looking to for data. And he didn't bring shit.

Biden was dickish, indeed, but he's allowed to be. He's Joe Biden. That kinda his thing.

Al Gore was boring. Dick was evil. Plain was middle class momma. Joe's a regular six pack kinda guy.

He's allowed to be a dick. However, he is not running to be president of the United States. Obama needs to ride this, and when he walks into the next debate he needs to bring facts and data to the table and when Romney lies he needs to politely say "where are you getting your information, because that's wrong."
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Right. The format of the next debate is different. Obama should be engaged, personable and smile....while bringing the facts, refuting and making clear-cut call outs politely.
 
A

astroturfing

Member
captmcblack said:
Reason and science, because my baby looked like a bean
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best comment :D my god that was painful to watch. dude proclaims his appreciation for reason and science... then babbles on about a completely unscientific anecdote. just laughable.

Ryan was creepy as hell. i think Romney gets too much shit for being emotionless and robotic, to me Ryan was much worse in that regard. it's like every single facial expression and gesture he makes is fake... that closing statement really was like some actor hawking a new vacuum cleaner or something in an infomercial. just utterly unconvincing and fake. so damn awkward.

i liked how the moderator dared to bring up religion, i thought that was kind of taboo in USA? nice job, even though both of them kinda dodged it IMO. i wish Romney was asked about his specific religious beliefs... if he is to be the leader of the free world, i want to know what kind of reality he thinks he lives in. i have no idea what he as a Mormon believes to be true... i think it would be fair to probe him a bit, just to make sure he doesn't believe anything crazy like all non-Mormons going to hell or something.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
The CNN poll:

According to This Poll
A CNN/ORC International post-debate poll shows that 48% of likely voters think Paul Ryan won the vice-presidential debate, while 44% think Joe Biden won. SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #1: This poll does not and cannot reflect the views of all Americans. It only represents the views of people who watched the debate. SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #2: The sample of debate-watchers in this poll were 31% Democratic and 33% Republican. That indicates that the sample of debate watchers is about eight points more Republican than an average CNN poll of all Americans, so the respondents were more Republican than the general public.
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@AJentleson: The CBS poll showing Biden winning 50-31 was of undecided voters. The CNN poll showing a tie was of 'debate watchers.'
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C

Chumly

Member
knicks said:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/?hpt=hp_t1

this is ridiculous
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From the poll
According to This Poll
A CNN/ORC International post-debate poll shows that 48% of likely voters think Paul Ryan won the vice-presidential debate, while 44% think Joe Biden won. SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #1: This poll does not and cannot reflect the views of all Americans. It only represents the views of people who watched the debate. SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #2: The sample of debate-watchers in this poll were 31% Democratic and 33% Republican. That indicates that the sample of debate watchers is about eight points more Republican than an average CNN poll of all Americans, so the respondents were more Republican than the general public.
Click to expand...
 
M

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
MetatronM said:
381 people?
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Oh, also...

"SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #2: The sample of debate-watchers in this poll were 31% Democratic and 33% Republican. That indicates that the sample of debate watchers is about eight points more Republican than an average CNN poll of all Americans, so the respondents were more Republican than the general public. "

Isn't that kind of an important point? That the sample is NOT representative of the actual electorate?
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Nobody with any sense can deny how badly Biden tore Ryan apart. So if anyone wants to be intellectually dishonest and have everyone know it, they can certainly go ahead and suggest otherwise.

I'd love to see it
 
N

NullPointer

Member
My favorite impression of the debate is from Slate

The Steamroller: Reading this transcript is going to be like scanning a David Mamet play. Biden never gave up the momentum he won in the first five minutes -- he seems physically unable to let Ryan finish an answer, interrupting him as if he's livetweeting to correct every factoid he dislikes.

Whether or not this Biden performance helps Obama, you could sell bootleg DVDs of it to Dems for $20.
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And I couldn't agree more with this:

Amir0x said:
Nobody with any sense can deny how badly Biden tore Ryan apart. So if anyone wants to be intellectually dishonest and have everyone know it, they can certainly go ahead and suggest otherwise.

I'd love to see it
Click to expand...
Please. Somebody. Share.
 
R

royalan

Member
Wow...these CNN polls.

Really goes to show how polarizing this debate, because I can't see on any level how Biden was outperformed by Ryan. He had a clearly dominant handle on the issues, and the only criticism I see is in reference to his "attitude." But why are we're being steered to believe that should have any weight next to the overall SUBSTANCE of the debates? -_-
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Ryan tried to defend a war that NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT and that was bad news for his ticket. Biden made have even gone a bit off-script but I'm glad. Get the fuck out of Afghanistan. It has been ELEVEN fucking years. We have tried. Let the Afghans take it from here. If they want to be cave men, so be it.
 
T

Tragicomedy

Member
h1nch said:
You're the DEVIL!

I mostly agree with your assessment, though I found it telling that Ryan was unable to respond when Biden started poking holes in his statements. Whether or not Americans will recognize that or just chalk it up to "Biden's an asshole" is anyone's guess.
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You're exactly right. There were definitely more substance coming out of Biden at times. Without calling the average voter stupid (more like, uninformed), I'm not sure how big of an impact that will have. We've definitely elected style over substance many, many times in the past. Local, state, and federal levels, for that matter.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
LordCanti said:
With a 5% margin of error somehow.
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Read up on statistics. In statistics, you can basically decide how big your margin of error is going to be based upon what your confidence interval is. Margin of error basically means nothing.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
RDreamer said:
Is it really unskewing if the poll itself says it's skewed?
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Depends if you think CNN did that because they genuinely think the poll wasn't very good or whether they did it because of the unskewing craze going around.

In either case, the point is that it isn't necessary to assume that poll is crazy to conclude that Biden won the debate handily, so personally I'd rather wait for further data to make that claim.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
ZealousD said:
Read up on statistics. In statistics, you can basically decide how big your margin of error is going to be based upon what your confidence interval is. Margin of error basically means nothing.
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no. MoE relates to the sample set.

If the sample set is crap, the MoE is still right. But it's an MoE of a crap sample.

If the sample set is good, the MoE is quite important.
 
S

smurfx

get some go again
royalan said:
Wow...these CNN polls.

Really goes to show how polarizing this debate, because I can't see on any level how Biden was outperformed by Ryan. He had a clearly dominant handle on the issues, and the only criticism I see is in reference to his "attitude." But why are we're being steered to believe that should have any weight next to the overall SUBSTANCE of the debates? -_-
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people have been trained to look out for unimportant shit like somebody looking "presidential" or how big their flag pin is or some other stupid thing that does not matter at all.
 
T

thecouncil

Banned
the only reason i can accept someone saying ryan won that debate is if they watched it on mute.

but i really think people kinda do watch them that way in a sense.
 
D

D'ultimate

Member
I think these poll results show us the risk the President takes if he gets too aggressive in these debates. While Joe was clearly destroying Ryan on the substance, he lost the debate to some solely cause of his demeanor. Too passive = bad. Too aggressive = also bad.

How the hell people see this as a draw
is beyond the scope of my comprehension otherwise?
 
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