Damn.
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Vice-Presidential Debate |OT| The Big F$@*ing Deal vs. The Randian from Dairyland
- Thread starter pigeon
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Damn.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Frankly I thought Martha won. And then Biden
gamergirly
Member
interesting
Tragicomedy
Member
See about two pages ago for my post. I think both men did what they set out to do. I don't expect this VP debate will have any significant impact come November, given that they almost never do.
Biden accomplished his mission of trying to belittle Ryan and make him seem wishy-washy on specifics. Ryan accomplished his mission of having Biden blame the bulk of our countries problems on something he inherited from Bush.
Neither man was all that impressive. I think I'd give Biden the slight edge, but this wasn't the OMGWTFBBQ blowout you seem to believe.
Is that dense enough or intellectually dishonest enough for you, oh great one?
SquiddyCracker
Banned
This combined with the "debate watchers" consisting of more GOPs explains a lot.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
guh have to see highlights as are always in the middle of the night for the euro folk :/
was funny watching Ryan say 'we're from similar towns Joe and I, do you know what the unemployment rate is in my town? 10% It was 8.5 when you guys took over and that's happening all around America'
this was in answer to 'the unemployment rate dropped below 8% for the first time in 43 months, who can get it below 6 and how long will it take'
Joe Biden quickly said 'That's not happening all around america, it's going down and then raised his hands like Ryan was an idiot. I laughed' Biden seems pretty likeable.
edit: watching Ryan talk is uncomfortable. 'let me talk about mitt romney, this is a guy......' followed by a heartwrenching story about how he cares about the poor.
was funny watching Ryan say 'we're from similar towns Joe and I, do you know what the unemployment rate is in my town? 10% It was 8.5 when you guys took over and that's happening all around America'
this was in answer to 'the unemployment rate dropped below 8% for the first time in 43 months, who can get it below 6 and how long will it take'
Joe Biden quickly said 'That's not happening all around america, it's going down and then raised his hands like Ryan was an idiot. I laughed' Biden seems pretty likeable.
edit: watching Ryan talk is uncomfortable. 'let me talk about mitt romney, this is a guy......' followed by a heartwrenching story about how he cares about the poor.
I thought she was a bit overbearing and detracted from the debate a bit, most likely overcompensating for Lehrer's debacle.
Watching now: Biden's attitude is a little too heavy. It's classic Biden, but it's also unappealing. Laughing at your opponent, boldfaced lies or not, isn't conducive to debate. It seems Obama and Biden are good cop/bad cop. I wish they would mix Biden's ability to call out the opposition with Obama's smooth, eloquent speech.
Ugh.
It's still driven by the confidence internal, which is completely arbitrary and is rarely shared.
Need the internals of the AP poll. It's already been shown that the CNN poll was stacked in favor of the republicans. The CBS poll of actual undecided seems to be the most honest. How republicans are reacting shows they know Biden won as well.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Biden's the bus driver
Tragicomedy
Member
They built a politician like that once in a lab: his name was Bill Clinton.
ElectricBlue187
Member
they maybe overcompensated for Obama's 'above the fray' tone in the first debate with Biden the attack dog coming out
To be fair though that was probably offset a bit by Biden actually speaking like a human person and Ryan speaking like he memorized everything phonetically without actually understood it. The dude was really, really stiff especially that forced face he pulled when he called Biden on messing up what he meant to say here. Stiff as a board.
Biden crushed it. Even if you disagree with his politics and policies, I don't know how anyone can honestly feel Ryan won that debate. Biden called him on everything, made him look like a joke when he kept giving non-answers, laid out the Obama plan, actually had details...he destroyed Ryan on every level besides hair. He had Ryan rattled. You can see a distinct moment when Biden completely got all up in that ass with the Jack Kennedy thing. Ryan had an immediate "oh fuck" look and got totally lost for a few seconds trying to recover.
If Romney was the unanimous winner of the first debate just by talking the loudest and the most while lying or not giving any details at all, how can anyone claim Biden didn't win when he called Ryan and Romney on everything for the past 3 months, gave his side with actual details, and made Ryan look like even more of a punk than Obama looked last week?
NBC was saying draw as well, CBS said Ryan won...what were they watching? He tooled the fuck out of Ryan the whole debate. It was like a grandson trying to challenge grandpa at a family gathering and getting put in his place. And on top of all of that, Ryan had some amazingly ballsy arguments like saying the Romney/Ryan campaign can bring honesty to the table and that the Obama side has no plans. Seriously? Some people are saying Biden was condescending, but his reactions were often the same ones I was having. The looks were when Ryan was saying some way out there shit and then he would call it out as soon as he got to speak. I feel like this was actually more one sided than the presidential debate.
Somehow, Paul Ryan comes across as more robotic and fake than Mitt Romney. Everything he said sounded like it was a prepared statement that he was reading in front of the class. He had zero conviction or passion in anything he said. Also, what the fuck was up with him bringing up car crash victims? That seemed really gross and underhanded considering Joe Biden's family history.
If Romney was the unanimous winner of the first debate just by talking the loudest and the most while lying or not giving any details at all, how can anyone claim Biden didn't win when he called Ryan and Romney on everything for the past 3 months, gave his side with actual details, and made Ryan look like even more of a punk than Obama looked last week?
NBC was saying draw as well, CBS said Ryan won...what were they watching? He tooled the fuck out of Ryan the whole debate. It was like a grandson trying to challenge grandpa at a family gathering and getting put in his place. And on top of all of that, Ryan had some amazingly ballsy arguments like saying the Romney/Ryan campaign can bring honesty to the table and that the Obama side has no plans. Seriously? Some people are saying Biden was condescending, but his reactions were often the same ones I was having. The looks were when Ryan was saying some way out there shit and then he would call it out as soon as he got to speak. I feel like this was actually more one sided than the presidential debate.
Somehow, Paul Ryan comes across as more robotic and fake than Mitt Romney. Everything he said sounded like it was a prepared statement that he was reading in front of the class. He had zero conviction or passion in anything he said. Also, what the fuck was up with him bringing up car crash victims? That seemed really gross and underhanded considering Joe Biden's family history.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I wish the moderators ask for more specifics
I didn't say dense. Intellectual dishonesty doesn't suggest stupidity; it suggests the individual knows the truth is different and is attempting to spin otherwise. It's a calculated move, quite in contrast to someone who is 'dense.' A lack of sense is simply meant to say that I don't know how anyone would actually want to put themselves out there with such a position, considering how at odds it is with what happened. It doesn't make sense, ya know?
I would love to know, genuinely, how Biden repeatedly pinning Ryan to the wall on specifics and Ryan fumbling like a football player with a broken leg and still failing to get specific was anything but a brutalizing. How Biden's frank assessment of Afghanistan showed Ryan for the pretty well embarrassingly ill-informed Congressman he is, ethering him time and time again on the cold hard facts. How Biden gutted Ryan's small government argument with his near poetic response on why he doesn't believe the government should tell a woman what to do with her body, even if he disagrees on a religious level. How Biden absolutely smothered Ryan on Medicare, instantly connecting with voters with compassion while Ryan fumbled with lies and fabrications and Biden pinned him again and again on how he has no fucking clue what he is talking about.
If you really think this was even in the same galaxy as each other, I guess I don't know what else to say.
That said, I of course agree with you that Vice Presidential debates mean shit and it is up to Obama to do his job on Tuesday. But, Biden stopped the bleeding and provided a platform to counter punch the laundry list of indisputable lies Romney bled from his ass last Wednesday.
There's a classic debate moment where someone talked about Jack Kennedy, and the other guy came back with "I knew him, and you're no Jack Kennedy" or something. I think Ryan and Biden both were worried that they'd just stepped into something that was going to turn into a sound bite. I'm sure Biden thought about repeating the classic line, but probably thought better of it.
BertramCooper
Banned
Raddatz pressed Ryan for specifics and he gave her jack shit.
NullPointer
Member
Thats a great way of putting it.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Ryan looked like a high schooler.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I meant future moderators
That and call out their bullshit. The news people, too.
SAMPLE: 381 voters who watched the debate.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
I fucking love Biden in this debate. Yes, he comes off as condescending and seems like he's treating Ryan like a child...but that's what Ryan deserved. Sounds like a child next to Biden's experience, history and knowledge.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
most of the propaganda i'm seeing from the right are "Biden was a total dick!"
metalslimer
Member
It never lost life. This has been an uphill battle for Romney since he was nominated
Lazy vs Crazy
Member
source?
BertramCooper
Banned
Yeah, I wish moderators would come armed with a bit more facts and statistics to push back the spin with.
Tragicomedy
Member
Ah, my bad. I mistakenly read "dense" where you wrote "sense." Long day.
As for the Afghanistan argument, both men bent the facts. I posted my reply to that a few pages back, as someone who has done a tour over there. Each was arguing a different point, both incorrectly.
You have to realize that, fair or not, plenty of voters don't really care about cold, hard facts. They are more concerned with demeanor, likability, and confidence. Bush didn't beat Kerry because he spent the time locking down his research, numbers, and figures.
You also cannot overlook the one good point that Ryan was attempting to make time and time again, which is that the current administration has had four years in office to fix things and they haven't succeeded by any meaningful metric. Our economy is still bad. Unemployment is still high. We've run the highest deficits in our nation's history these past few years, contributing to a looming debt crises. Etc., etc., etc. Given his complete lack of specifics, I wouldn't be surprised if Ryan was coached to just keep the topic on how bad things currently are.
I can think of three separate elections in my lifetime that were won based solely on how crappy the economy was around November time frame. Romney and Ryan are banking on that, perhaps idealistically.
If all Fox has to talk about is Biden laughing in Ryan's face and the moderator being a mean doodoo head, that's good news for the Obama campaign.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Black Mamba
Member
381 people with a heavy republican lean?
Seriously, fuck CNN. What piss-poor bullshit is this? This would get someone fired if it was an internal polling.
Also, I cannot find the AP poll anywhere and neither can twitter.
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
It's nice to see that the Gaf response is not representative of all voters
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Schattenjäger;43110864 said:
So you're saying Obama won't be winning?
I think that GAF is a pretty good representation of the general public in this regard.
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
Talking about the vp debate
Yeah the "Let Detroit go bankrupt" is pretty tricky. I think the DEMs should stay away from that.
They don't care, ever since they went on the tea party parade after the 2008 elections (they hosted Tea Party platform stumps and debates where not even Fox would do that) they have gone off the deep end. All they want is the race to be close because presidential elections season and disasters is the place they have gotten some of their biggest ratings. They don't want this race to be a blowout, they plan to milk everything as long as they can.
I'm sorry but this is.....wow.....good stuff! Nicely done.
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