Support NeoGAF

[Leunam]

That happened at the first war for Armageddon I think. I don't have their Codex so I can't really say, but I was always under the impression that they're supposed to be an ultra-secret organization.

 

[Showaddy]

That happened at the first war for Armageddon I think. I don't have their Codex so I can't really say, but I was always under the impression that they're supposed to be an ultra-secret organization.

Yeah most of the book is based around the Knights at Armageddon and the subsequent fallout when the Space Wolves basically go to war with the Inquisition over their treatment of the human survivors.

 

[Ebris]

I remember how when they came out it was like not even normal space marines recuits cannot compare to a GK recruit! They are the super bestestest!

Here we go, found it:

"Each recruit must pass the six hundred and sixty six Rituals of Detestation, to prove that he is capable of withstanding horrors that would break even the greatest of 'normal' Space Marines."

"Space Marines who encounter them are telepathically scoured, while Imperial Guard regiments they fight beside are simply executed."

Oh really, so all those super heroic 'normal' SM don't even compare? Fuck off

I don't even know why I'm so angry

Edit: Found some more stuff!!

"Each Grey Knight name is actually a fragment of magical lore that acts in perfect opposition to the true name of a particular Daemon, making even a Grey Knight's name a deadly weapon."

I can't even....just why did GW make such try-hard "I'm the uberestestest" characters?

Our Spiritual Liege, Matt Ward.

Seriously, Codex: Daemon Hunters was an awesome Codex. GKs were strong, but not broken, in terms of fluff and mechanics. Ward cranked them to 11.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Here's something I never really understood: If the Emperor (or the barely alive version of him) is required to maintain a psychic beacon that allows for warp travel then how do the other races cross interstellar space?

 

[Leunam]

Eldar and Dark Eldar use the Webway:

The Webway is a series of secret portals and tunnels used by the Eldar and Dark Eldar. Placed a long time ago throughout the galaxy and on Eldar Craftworlds, each gateway is a point in real space linked to another point in real space by a warp tunnel that is protected from the hostile nature of the warp because it exists between the two realities but not entirely in either. Journeys through these tunnels can be made in a fixed time. The arterial tunnels are large enough to carry spacecraft, though most tunnels only accommodate human-sized creatures or small vehicles.

Tau don't have a warp presence, but they use warp drives:

The Tau, because they lack psykers as a race, are incapable of fully entering the warp. However, based on duplicating the warp drive from an unknown alien vessel they have found a way of 'diving' towards the warp, extending the field of their drive into a wing shape designed to hold their vessel in the warp, before being hurled into real space again like a ball held under water and then released. While this is much slower, by a factor of five when compared to Imperial jump speed, it is a lot safer because they do not enter the warp deep enough to become exposed to any of its dangers, and is also much more predictable as their speed works out to a consistent rate. Nevertheless, this limited form of warp travel has resulted in the Tau Empire being closely packed around their home system.

Tyranids have dedicated bio-ships for interstellar travel:

The Hive Fleets of the Tyranids do not travel through the warp but instead rely on small Narvhal bio-ships which are capable of harnessing a planetary system's gravity from immense distances away to create a corridor of compressed-space through which Tyranid vessels can travel towards the system at a swift rate. Whilst slower than proper warp travel, this method is infinitely more reliable. On final approach to a system the Narvhal's delicate senses face interference from multiple gravity sources, and so the fleet must resort to slower conventional propulsion whilst within the borders of a system.

~Lexicanum

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Most of the time Orks probably just travel the Warp without really knowing were they're going, they're mainly just looking for a good fight. If they're boarded by Daemons when in the Warp, they'd probably welcome the scrap. Maybe their combined Orky willpower helps throw them out of the Warp somewhere where they'll have some fun.

Apparently there was a story somewhere about an Ork who accidentally travelled back in time a little bit - he killed himself so he could have 2 guns.

 

[Tacitus_]

Most of the time Orks probably just travel the Warp without really knowing were they're going, they're mainly just looking for a good fight. If they're boarded by Daemons when in the Warp, they'd probably welcome the scrap. Maybe their combined Orky willpower helps throw them out of the Warp somewhere where they'll have some fun.

Apparently there was a story somewhere about an Ork who accidentally travelled back in time a little bit - he killed himself so he could have 2 guns.

Two of his favourite guns, to be exact.

 

[Leunam]

There's also the Ork warlord who was doomed to be reborn again and again and fight to the death for eternity on a planet inside the Eye of Terror. Happiest Ork in 40k right there.

 

[Mr. Poolman]

How does the Ork willpower works? They power things with belief or something, right?

 

[Deified Data]

i havent read the grey knights but i read Soul drinkers and some Horus hereasy ben counter stuff and i would not recommend reading that one.

Well I bought it after seeing it had a decent rating on Amazon so I suppose I'll have to see for myself! So far, so good. Could have used another couple goings-over from an editor but I take it all BL books are like that.

I don't know if that's a good thing or not!

I just don't understand why GW even brought out the GK, they are just so stupidly strong. I mean in lore terms an SM is beyond stupid, if they throw a rock it's more powerful that firing a gun, and they can spit acid to melt your face. Now take all of that and then make them all super psykers with ridiculous gear it's like.....what's the point?

Currently reading the first book of the Grey Knights omnibus and they're dying by the hundreds. They're Marty Stu's, sure, but if their sworn enemy is stronger than your average Ork or Chaos Marine you'd expect them to be stronger than your average Space Marine. Doesn't explain why the Imperium doesn't just outfit all of their Marines in anti-magic charms and shit though, lol. Rule of cool, I guess.

 

[Tacitus_]

How does the Ork willpower works? They power things with belief or something, right?

If you give an ork a piece of scrap metal and tell him it's a gun, it will shoot bullets. Also, red ork vehicles will go fasta because they believe they will.
The orks themselves don't realize this.

 

[Nikodemos]

How does the Ork willpower works? They power things with belief or something, right?

Pretty much, but it's something the Ork has to believe in (it's usually guns and vehicles). Also, the bigger the Ork, the more powerful the device(s) he can power with his belief. Same with numbers: the more Orks, the bigger, more powerful and more numerous the weaponry they can power becomes. Which is why the Waaagh! is so important to them. It's a giant virtual capacitor of willpower.

 

[Mindwipe]

That Tyranid retcon about them not using warp travel was a terrible idea when they did it and might well get reconned back out again when the next codex gets released.

Narvhal's would be an enormous weakness for Hive Fleets, and restricting Nids to light speed would make no sense whatsoever. It'd also render Genestealer cults completely pointless.

 

[EsotericManiac]

this thread needs more painted figure gifs

just sayin'

 

[Alucrid]

If you give an ork a piece of scrap metal and tell him it's a gun, it will shoot bullets. Also, red ork vehicles will go fasta because they believe they will.
The orks themselves don't realize this.

so, in theory, orks are the most powerful force in the universe? how many people actually know of their ability?

 

[Azih]

so, in theory, orks are the most powerful force in the universe? how many people actually know of their ability?

I think everyone who has tried to salvage ork machinery after a battle and found it to be a bunch of rusted junk has an inkling.

 

[Meteorain]

Orks can't literlly make a random bar of metal shoot bullets. The "apparent" mechanics have to be there. It has to be "gun-like" in nature with random bullets.

Their psychicness just makes their half boiled shit work instead of doing nothing.

 

[WanderingWind]

If you give an ork a piece of scrap metal and tell him it's a gun, it will shoot bullets. Also, red ork vehicles will go fasta because they believe they will.
The orks themselves don't realize this.

That's uh. That's pretty dumb actually. I like 'em better as just masters of throwing together shit to make crude weaponry.

Tinkerbell guns are pretty lame

 

[Mindwipe]

so, in theory, orks are the most powerful force in the universe? how many people actually know of their ability?

It's not that they can bend reality completely to their whim, it's that they're all a bit psychic and that can be very powerful when there's a lot of them focused on a common goal.

The comment above that a lump will fire bullets if the ork believes it can is a bit of an exaggeration - orks wouldn't need Mekboyz if that were true. As a more "real" example, orks believe red vehicles go faster, and they do. This is partly because the Ork driving puts his foot down a bit more, but partly because the psychic powers displayed by the ork and other observing orks pulls power from warp space into real space and shunts the vehicle along slightly. Likewise, orks in leadership positions grow considerably larger - this is probably genetic, probably because big orks rise through the ranks as they hit people and probably because the psychic energy of the orks around them contribute psychic energy which their bodies can use to power additional body mass beyond what would normally be viable.

You should think of this as a bit of a bonus, rather than the explanation of all Ork technology. Orks have technology because Mekboys carry knowledge of how to build it, and they know because it's built into their genetic code as a legacy from a long dead strand of Orks, the Brain Boyz.

 

[Meteorain]

Orks aren't bigger because they're leaders. They are leaders because they are bigger!

Orks keep on growing forever. The older the Ork, the bigger it is.

 

[EndcatOmega]

I'm also pretty sure the psychic belief field thing is only a theory put forward in-universe by Ad Mech, unless something changed recently.

 

[Tacitus_]

so, in theory, orks are the most powerful force in the universe? how many people actually know of their ability?

Da orks waz made fer two tings, fightin' an' winnin'

At least a part of the Imperium knows of this, but I have no idea about the other factions.

 

[AbsolutBro]

I do recall a story about a Xenos Inquisitor (I think) working on a captured Ork Boy. Upon seeing that the Boy's slugga (pistol) was, essentially, a block of wood with a trigger and a barrel, he had a servitor return the gun to the Boy confident it was useless. The Boy promptly shot and killed the servitor.


Also, orks always win.

"Orks is never defeated in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't loose neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!"

 

[Leunam]

Truly the most enlightened race.

 

[Azih]

Also I think it is a neat and hilarious way to explain the endless dakka that Ork shootas expend. I mean where do they get all the bullets from? They don't have any bullet factories pumping them out! But they come out of the guns because Orks believe that they'll come out of the guns.

Edit: Plus Ork tech is really the crappiest of all the factions too.

 

[LaserBuddha]

I don't know if that's a good thing or not!

I just don't understand why GW even brought out the GK, they are just so stupidly strong. I mean in lore terms an SM is beyond stupid, if they throw a rock it's more powerful that firing a gun, and they can spit acid to melt your face. Now take all of that and then make them all super psykers with ridiculous gear it's like.....what's the point?

Well they've been around since I think as early as the Rogue Trader days. I don't think they are that crazy uber, they are just the cream of the crop of the cream of the crop that are chosen for the super secret black ops missions, just like in real life. There are probably senior members in each normal Space Marine chapter that are better warriors than baseline Grey Knights. As skilled and well-equipped as they are, in game terms a Space Marine is right in the middle of the pack in terms of powerful infantry, and the GKs are just above them. Even in fluff, a Space Marine is only The Best Warrior in the Galaxy in a strictly human context.

Btw I just received my Raven Guard variant Space Marine codex and it is beautiful (and big)!

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Da orks waz made fer two tings, fightin' an' winnin'

At least a part of the Imperium knows of this, but I have no idea about the other factions.

i thought the orks were made by that old race before the eldar to fight the tyranids and ctan/necrons. I though in theory if they united like the imperium everyone would be overrun by the ork hordes and the Waaaaaaaaaaaaagh!

 

[Tacitus_]

i thought the orks were made by that old race before the eldar to fight the tyranids and ctan/necrons. I though in theory if they united like the imperium everyone would be overrun by the ork hordes and the Waaaaaaaaaaaaagh!

Yeah, the orks were made by the Old Ones. To fight and win. Too bad they died before coding in the enemy, so the only thing stopping orks from running over everything is that they like to fight each other as well.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Well they've been around since I think as early as the Rogue Trader days. I don't think they are that crazy uber, they are just the cream of the crop of the cream of the crop that are chosen for the super secret black ops missions, just like in real life. There are probably senior members in each normal Space Marine chapter that are better warriors than baseline Grey Knights. As skilled and well-equipped as they are, in game terms a Space Marine is right in the middle of the pack in terms of powerful infantry, and the GKs are just above them. Even in fluff, a Space Marine is only The Best Warrior in the Galaxy in a strictly human context.

Btw I just received my Raven Guard variant Space Marine codex and it is beautiful (and big)!

Really?
What else is there (non-human wise)?

 

[Vilix]

I remember how when they came out it was like not even normal space marines recuits cannot compare to a GK recruit! They are the super bestestest!

Here we go, found it:

"Each recruit must pass the six hundred and sixty six Rituals of Detestation, to prove that he is capable of withstanding horrors that would break even the greatest of 'normal' Space Marines."

"Space Marines who encounter them are telepathically scoured, while Imperial Guard regiments they fight beside are simply executed."

Oh really, so all those super heroic 'normal' SM don't even compare? Fuck off

I don't even know why I'm so angry

Edit: Found some more stuff!!

"Each Grey Knight name is actually a fragment of magical lore that acts in perfect opposition to the true name of a particular Daemon, making even a Grey Knight's name a deadly weapon."

I can't even....just why did GW make such try-hard "I'm the uberestestest" characters?

From what I understand, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but the first GKs were brought together right before the Emperor beamed up to Horus' ship. He requested a small group of people, sworn to the Emperium, who could withstand the temptation and corruption of chaos. This small group of people were the founding fathers of the Inquistion and the Grey Knights. What I also remember was that the GKs of infused with the geen seed of the Emperor himself. Not from a Primarch or a Primarch's 4 cousin removed, or some shit like that. Malcador the Stigalite was the one who gathered this group together. I thought that I read some where that he was responsible for hiding Saturn's moon Titan in the warp, stalked with everything needed to rebuild humanity in case humanity had all but been eraticated. That includes the Emperor's geen seed.

 

[Mindwipe]

Also I think it is a neat and hilarious way to explain the endless dakka that Ork shootas expend. I mean where do they get all the bullets from? They don't have any bullet factories pumping them out! But they come out of the guns because Orks believe that they'll come out of the guns.

Edit: Plus Ork tech is really the crappiest of all the factions too.

Not neccessarily. Orks are kunning, such as tellyportas.

I don't see why Orks wouldn't have factories making bullets. What do you think the grots do before the Waaaagh? Most of them are probably knicked from the Imperium anyway (and if they're bolter rounds not much than a block of wood with a trigger on it and a bit of psychic fire to trigger the round is actually required to make it fire anyway...)

 

[Saiyar]

From what I understand, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but the first GKs were brought together right before the Emperor beamed up to Horus' ship. He requested a small group of people, sworn to the Emperium, who could withstand the temptation and corruption of chaos. This small group of people were the founding fathers of the Inquistion and the Grey Knights. What I also remember was that the GKs of infused with the geen seed of the Emperor himself. Not from a Primarch or a Primarch's 4 cousin removed, or some shit like that. Malcador the Stigalite was the one who gathered this group together. I thought that I read some where that he was responsible for hiding Saturn's moon Titan in the warp, stalked with everything needed to rebuild humanity in case humanity had all but been eraticated. That includes the Emperor's geen seed.

It has been strongly hinted that the Grey Knights were founded by Nathaniel Garro at the requested of Malcador. Titan was hidden in the warp during the siege of Terra so the first Grey Knights didn't fight take part in the battle.

 

[Leunam]

Really?
What else is there (non-human wise)?

Eldar Aspect Warriors, Dark Eldar Wyches, and Tyranid Broodlords to name a few.

 

[WanderingWind]

I remember how when they came out it was like not even normal space marines recuits cannot compare to a GK recruit! They are the super bestestest!

Here we go, found it:

"Each recruit must pass the six hundred and sixty six Rituals of Detestation, to prove that he is capable of withstanding horrors that would break even the greatest of 'normal' Space Marines."

"Space Marines who encounter them are telepathically scoured, while Imperial Guard regiments they fight beside are simply executed."

Oh really, so all those super heroic 'normal' SM don't even compare? Fuck off

I don't even know why I'm so angry

Edit: Found some more stuff!!

"Each Grey Knight name is actually a fragment of magical lore that acts in perfect opposition to the true name of a particular Daemon, making even a Grey Knight's name a deadly weapon."

I can't even....just why did GW make such try-hard "I'm the uberestestest" characters?

It all sounds pretty fan wanky, but executing entire regiments because a GK fought with them?

That's not even consistent with the universe. The Emperor would not be pleased to see his soldiers thrown away so.

 

[Tacitus_]

It all sounds pretty fan wanky, but executing entire regiments because a GK fought with them?

That's not even consistent with the universe. The Emperor would not be pleased to see his soldiers thrown away so.

Blood is the Emperors currency. Spend it well.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Eldar Aspect Warriors, Dark Eldar Wyches, and Tyranid Broodlords to name a few.

i think the being the best warriors in the galaxy was more because the space marines were the most adaptable battle unit, so you could have devastator squads, tactical, death watch, grey knights, chaplains, assault marines, honor guard, sternguard, the list goes on, when the normal shit doesnt work they would adapt and get a new tactic. Their ability = win, and over years of war and untold numbers of engagements they chronicle all the combat prowess of all the other foes. They are indeed a special forces unit, the main force is the Imperial Guard. So for the purpose of pulling off special missions they are the best...what do they lack? Something extremely specialized and specific?

 

[Vilix]

It all sounds pretty fan wanky, but executing entire regiments because a GK fought with them?

That's not even consistent with the universe. The Emperor would not be pleased to see his soldiers thrown away so.

That's very consistant with the 40k universe. Being a citizen of the imperium sucks harder than Jenna Jameson on pay day.

 

[AbsolutBro]

It all sounds pretty fan wanky, but executing entire regiments because a GK fought with them?

That's not even consistent with the universe. The Emperor would not be pleased to see his soldiers thrown away so.

It actually is consistent with the universe. Keep in mind that the Emperor also didn't want to be worshipped at all, and yet now we have the God-Emperor of Mankind and his church. Many parts of the way the Imperium currently operates would be against the Emperor's actual wishes.

 

[Karakand]

Best Grey Knights book out there by a mile, Dembski-Bowden hits another one out of the park.

My little Zael's all grown up. :')

 

[dan2026]

It actually is consistent with the universe. Keep in mind that the Emperor also didn't want to be worshipped at all, and yet now we have the God-Emperor of Mankind and his church. Many parts of the way the Imperium currently operates would be against the Emperor's actual wishes.

Exactly. That is the sad irony of the Imperium.

Everything the Emperor fought for has either been lost or buried on a sea of bureaucratic bullshit.

As evil as they are. The Choas Space Marines and the other followers of Choas are in a way much more forward thinking than their loyalist counterparts.

 

[Meteorain]

It all sounds pretty fan wanky, but executing entire regiments because a GK fought with them?

That's not even consistent with the universe. The Emperor would not be pleased to see his soldiers thrown away so.

Good thing the Emperor is mostly-dead and the tools who rule in his name don't care!

 

[Vilix]

Exactly. That is the sad irony of the Imperium.

Everything the Emperor fought for has either been lost or buried on a sea of bureaucratic bullshit.

As evil as they are. The Choas Space Marines and the other followers of Choas are in a way much more forward thinking than their loyalist counterparts.

Most of the technology hasn't even progressed as it's looked upon as possibly heretical. It's an arrested culture.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Exactly. That is the sad irony of the Imperium.

Everything the Emperor fought for has either been lost or buried on a sea of bureaucratic bullshit.

As evil as they are. The Choas Space Marines and the other followers of Choas are in a way much more forward thinking than their loyalist counterparts.

They were tricked into joining Chaos. They turned traitor to avoid a vision of the future that was the result of them turning traitor. Chaos cares not for them, even Nurgle. The very second they are no longer useful as they are, they are cast aside. Say what you want about the callous nature of the Imperium, but they act always to protect and preserve their own species. The champions of the traitor legions, even the Primarchs who received the gift of Daemonhood lost all of their previous motivations and identity, and are just subservient goons acting out the will of Chaos (this is why Abbadon has declined being a Daemon Prince).

Chaos Space Marines are the biggest joke in the galaxy. They are the guys who cash checks sent them by Nigerian Princes and send back some of the money.

 

[dan2026]

Chaos Space Marines are the biggest joke in the galaxy. They are the guys who cash checks sent them by Nigerian Princes and send back some of the money.

Hah this made me laugh.

It is true that Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows.

 

[Tacitus_]

They were tricked into joining Chaos. They turned traitor to avoid a vision of the future that was the result of them turning traitor. Chaos cares not for them, even Nurgle. The very second they are no longer useful as they are, they are cast aside. Say what you want about the callous nature of the Imperium, but they act always to protect and preserve their own species. The champions of the traitor legions, even the Primarchs who received the gift of Daemonhood lost all of their previous motivations and identity, and are just subservient goons acting out the will of Chaos (this is why Abbadon has declined being a Daemon Prince).

Chaos Space Marines are the biggest joke in the galaxy. They are the guys who cash checks sent them by Nigerian Princes and send back some of the money.

Lies. Grandpa Nurgle loves all of his followers.

 

[Funky Papa]

Nurgle is, like, 300% more caring and loving than the Emprah.

Granted his love may be of a different, icky kind, but love is love.

 

[Karakand]

They were tricked into joining Chaos. They turned traitor to avoid a vision of the future that was the result of them turning traitor.

Are you talking about the Lectitio Divinitatus' rise--and the perceived tepid response to it by the Imperium--or something else? Their reasons always seemed relatively diverse to me, albeit comically childish at times. (e.g. DADDY ABANDONED US AND WENT HOME WITHOUT SAYING WHY, in the case of Mortarion and Fulgrim.)

 

[Deified Data]

Any recommendations on good books to read from the Chaos perspective?

 

[Vhalyar]

Any recommendations on good books to read from the Chaos perspective?

Void Stalker, Soul Hunter and Blood Reaver are a trilogy about a Night Lords warband. Not your typical "hurr chaos chaos blood main kill", but a bunch of renegades trying to survive a garbage galaxy.

Worth reading into the various Horus Heresy books that cover the traitor legions. The First Heretic in particular is a fun read.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Are you talking about the Lectitio Divinitatus' rise--and the perceived tepid response to it by the Imperium--or something else? Their reasons always seemed relatively diverse to me, albeit comically childish at times. (e.g. DADDY ABANDONED US AND WENT HOME WITHOUT SAYING WHY, in the case of Mortarion and Fulgrim.)

It all happens because Horus is shown a dystopian vision of the future where the Emperor is venerated as a god, and primarchs like Horus are forgotten or vilified. It is a vision of the current 40k universe. Having just been "abandoned" by the Emperor who had to return to Terra to work on the golden throne, he is led to believe that this is the future the Emperor is trying to create. He rebels to stop this, but it is his rebellion that makes it happen in the first place. Erebus of the Word Bearers did this IIRC which is why Erebus is the biggest dick in 30k.

The emperor on the other hand, genuinely works to uplift the human race, despite what some of he above posters would have you believe because they are confused by his dispassionate and pragmatic attitude. The emperor eliminated religion because it weakened the human race, and expressly forbade that he be worshipped as a god. Horus was so jealous with his suspicion that the Emperor will try to take credit from him, that he made a martyr of the Emperor and turned the Emperor into the religious figure that neither of them wanted.