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Warhammer 40,000 |OT| In the Grim Darkness of the Community Forum There Is Only War

M

Mindwipe

Member
I'm not sure publishing an errata sheet with points cost changes was ever that hard under the old books GW, but whatever.

Also lol at the idea anyone will ever use power levels ever.
 
O

Ohnonono

Member
Also BTW, Does using Rubric Marines with some CSM weapon bits and weirding up my cultists sound like an actual cool idea for a CSM SW:Armageddon kill team?

Also figured I could get some of those scarab termies for my extra dudes you can bring to missions!
 
G

GarthVaderUK

Banned
Some new lore - War Zone: Damocles - https://www.warhammer-community.com...00-war-zone-damocles-may13gw-homepage-post-4/

The Damocles Gulf has been a hotly contested region for the century, with the T’au Empire seeking to expand its territory and locking horns with well established, but hard-pressed Imperial forces. The war has been bloody on both sides with the death of a Space Marine Chapter Master answered with the assassination of key Ethereal personnel – there’s a lot of bad blood.

The Imperium, seeking a swift resolution to the conflict in the face of mounting pressures elsewhere, used a pretty drastic solution at the finale of the last campaign – launching world-ending incendiaries into the nebulae of gases across the war zone, effectively setting fire to the entire Damocles Gulf and denying it to both sides!

Problem solved, right?

Wrong.

The Cicatrix Maledictum, the great warp rift that split the galaxy in half, snuffed out the multi-system-spanning firestorm – the war for the Damocles Gulf is back on! With the Imperial defenders pressed hard on every front from Chaos incursions, reemergent Necron dynasties, and ravenous Tyranid hive fleets, the T’au were quick to react to the new opportunity. They launched their Fifth Sphere Expansion to fight back against these terrors of the galaxy, seeking out new worlds and claiming more territory for the Greater Good.

Wait, fifth? What happened to number four?

Yeah, about that. So, the dynamic and ever optimistic T’au might have been a little over-eager to embark on a new expansion.

The Fourth Sphere Expansion fleet set off almost immediately once the fires in the Gulf had subsided, but with the Great Rift still raging through that region of space, all contact with them was soon lost. Were they all killed by some unknown attacker(s)? Did they just lose contact due to interference? Perhaps they entered the Warp – intentionally or not – becoming lost (or worse) in the violent empyrean tides? Maybe they will yet be found, or emerge somewhere unexpected in the galaxy, a lost portion of this optimistic new empire ever intent on conquest…

We’ll have to wait and see.
Click to expand...
 
V

Vincent Alexander

Member
Thanks for posting the Lexicon and such for Warhammer! Last question I bug you guys with (well, that is probably a lie). A Primarch is higher than a Chapter Master, right?
 
C

cntr

Banned
Very much higher. The Primarchs are the "sons" of the Emperor, and they're the genetic basis of the original space marine legions. A Chapter Master's just the leader of a space marine chapter, the trimmed descendants of the legions.
 
V

Vincent Alexander

Member
Tacitus_ said:
A Chapter Master commands 1000 space marines. A Primarch commanded 100k-200k space marines (with some exceptions).
Click to expand...
Holy moly. So, isn't a Chapter Master in charge of a whole unit like...Blood Ravens? Ultramarines? So could be Primarch command multiple chapters at once if they could command those many numbers? Or did they command before there were chapters, per se?
 
S

ShadowSwordmaster

Banned
Vincent Alexander said:
Thanks for posting the Lexicon and such for Warhammer! Last question I bug you guys with (well, that is probably a lie). A Primarch is higher than a Chapter Master, right?
Click to expand...
A chapter master is a leader of a chapter of space marines, which is about 1000 marines in total. A primarch is the leader of a Space Marine Legion, which can be between 10,0000 to 200,000 marines in total.
It is important to note that in 40k the highest rank that a space marine can achieve is a chapter master. In 30k it's a lot different.
 
A

AbsolutBro

Member
Vincent Alexander said:
Holy moly. So, isn't a Chapter Master in charge of a whole unit like...Blood Ravens? Ultramarines? So could be Primarch command multiple chapters at once if they could command those many numbers? Or did they command before there were chapters, per se?
Click to expand...
Primarchs are the progenitors of Space Marine Chapters. Leman Russ is the Primarch of the Space Wolves Chapter of Space Marines. Loan Grimnar is the current Chapter Master of the Space Wolves, but there were others before him all the way back to Leman Russ.

So it is for the other chapters. Rubout Gillman (or whatever autocorrect says) is the Primary of the Ultramarines. There are a thousand chapters stemming from the Ultramarines, each with their own Chapter Master. Marneus Calgar leads the Ultramarines, but Gillman is their ultimate founder and father, so to speak.
 
S

ShadowSwordmaster

Banned
SMLegionOrg.jpg
 
T

TheVoidDragon

Member
Vincent Alexander said:
Holy moly. So, isn't a Chapter Master in charge of a whole unit like...Blood Ravens? Ultramarines? So could be Primarch command multiple chapters at once if they could command those many numbers? Or did they command before there were chapters, per se?
Click to expand...

Primarchs led Space Marine legions. In the 31st millennium around the time of the Horus Heresy, Space Marine chapters didn't exist, instead they were legions of between around 10,000 to 200,000 Marines depending in which, with 20 (originally, 18 after 2 of them had something happen to them and their Primarch) Legions. A Primarch had control over 1 legion, e.g. Guilliman had the Ultramarines.

After the Horus Heresy, all the Primarchs ended up either dead, missing, injured or traitor. The traitor Primarches that survived have legions, but the Imperium (or more specifically, Guilliman) decided giving someone control of so many Marines at once was probably a bad idea, so the survivors from the Legions were split up into Chapters. Each Chapter has their own look, backstory, history etc and the more typical chapters have around 1000 Marines, although a few go a bit beyond that.

So a Chapter Master leads a Chapter of Space Marines, and there were no Primarchs around until Roboute Guilliman came back recently. The Primarchs are considered by some of the Chapters to be sort of holy/god-like figures as well.
 
T

Tacitus_

Member
Vincent Alexander said:
Holy moly. So, isn't a Chapter Master in charge of a whole unit like...Blood Ravens? Ultramarines? So could be Primarch command multiple chapters at once if they could command those many numbers? Or did they command before there were chapters, per se?
Click to expand...

Others have already expanded on their command. I'll illustrate what sort of combat monsters they were. Moments after waking up from stasis, Guilliman punches one of these guys
9c6cd1276a0a512fbf2601e8392aa63f.jpg

through a marble pillar. Like, not so hard that the terminator makes an impact, he crashes clean through. After mopping up the immediate area, he goes to the command centre and turns a desperate defence to a crushing victory.
 
G

GarthVaderUK

Banned
More new rules revealed today - Stratagems: https://www.warhammer-community.com...mer-40000-stratagems-may14gw-homepage-post-4/

Stratagems are a key part of the new Warhammer 40,000 game.

These represent your army’s commanders marshalling their forces and vital orders coming down from high command (that’s you!).

Any army that is Battle-forged can use Stratagems, and as we’ve established already, it’s very easy to make a Battle-forged army. If your army is Battle-forged by the current rules of Warhammer 40,000, it still can be in the new edition.

Battle-forged armies earn Command Points based on how efficient they are likely to be at the logistics of war. Armies with a balanced mix of unit types and plenty of troops will tend to have more to play with, and every army that is Battle-forged gets 3 Command Points to start with. Some units are such capable and experienced commanders that they give you additional Command Points just by including them. Bjorn the Fell-Handed, for example, the oldest living(ish) loyalist Space Marine, gets you an extra one just for showing up!

As the game plays on, you can use these Command Points to activate a variety of Stratagems. Many of these will be specific to certain missions or factions, but there are three that every army can use:
Click to expand...

New40kStratagemsTable.jpg


As you can see, these abilities are nothing to scoff at. That Tactical Re-roll can be used to ensure a critical high-damage attack wounds a key enemy unit. But at the same time, your opponent could just as easily use theirs to re-roll that critical armour save. Or maybe you want to keep ahold of them to make sure you make that vital charge next turn?

Are you expecting to lose half of your biggest Ork squad to a punishing Morale test after taking heavy casualties in the Shooting phase? Not anymore! Auto-pass for 2 CPs.

The Counter-offensive is pretty huge too, with the ability to interrupt your opponent’s battlefield-wide charge to strike ahead of some of their units. It works best, of course, if your units are tough in a fight and at least one of the enemy units is going first, but used correctly, this can swing a game.

In narrative and open play, most missions will include a few extra stratagems too, representing things like preliminary bombardments, proximity mines and silenced weapons.

In matched play, these Stratagems have the additional restriction that the same Stratagem cannot be used by the same player more than once during any single phase. So, if you use that Command Re-roll to pass an armour save in the Fight phase, you can’t then use that same Stratagem to re-roll a hit later in the phase.
Click to expand...
 
S

Skyball Paint

Member
I want to make a Dark Eldar kill team for Shadow War. I'm undecided on how many paints I want to get.
This guy uses a wide variety of washes and colors for highlights, they make the model look so much better, but obtaining such a variety seems pretty expensive. What paints should I get to start with?

Another question, what craft tools will I need for Warhammer models?
 
F

Fou-Lu

Member
Have you ever painted minis before?

If not I would suggest getting a base and highlight for each colour you plan on using and a single dark wash. Start with the base colours, wash the entire mini with your dark wash, put your base down again avoiding the recesses where the wash went, edge highlight or dry brush with your highlight and you're done. Simple but it'll look nice. The main place you'll likely make mistakes is in brush technique and how much you water down your paints which can only really be learned through practice.
 
L

Leunam

Member
If you're buying Citadel paints, Agrax Earthshade is very useful for many, many colors. Nuln Oil is good too, but might be a little too dark.
 
S

Skyball Paint

Member
Thanks for the advice guys, changed my mind and decided to start with a Skitarii Ranger kill team. Ordered a bunch of crafting supplies and Vallejo paints. Gonna get Earthshade and Nuln Oil from the local Warhammer store.

I got the Shadow War: Armageddon rulebook. Have to hand it to GW for making a game where you can conceivably play with a single box of minis and have a good time.

Also I really really want a video game version of SW:A crossed with XCOM, where you play as Imperial Guard vets hunting Orks in the dark depths of Armegeddon's hives.
 
G

GarthVaderUK

Banned
Primaris Space Marines!

Vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYGrIBpE2PI

Intro: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/a-new-breed-of-hero-may15gw-homepage-post-1/
For the past 10,000 years, the galaxy has been defended by the awesome might of the Adeptus Astartes – warriors whose origins date back to the gene-forging of the Space Marine Legions on ancient Terra, before even the Great Crusade and the Horus Heresy that followed it.

Over the millennia, some have tried to emulate the process of creating Space Marines, both for good and evil, but none have managed to equal the genius of the Emperor's finished creation.

Until today.

For ten millennia, Archmagos Dominus Belisarius Cawl has been working on a task set for him by the Primarch Roboute Guilliman: a new legion of warriors. Now, though the Imperium is poised on the brink of annihilation, his task is complete...

GuillimanCawl.jpg


The Primaris Space Marine is a new breed of hero for this, the darkest age in the Imperium's history. These new warriors are the next step in the evolution of the Emperor's Angels of Death – genetically altered from their brethren to be bigger, stronger and faster – timely reinforcements to the Imperium's armies as their enemies close in for the kill.

To aid them in battle, these new gene-forged warriors are equipped with new arms and armour forged on holy Mars itself.

New40KPrimarisArt1.jpg


The Primaris Space Marine here is an Intercessor wearing Mk X Tacticus armour, a suit that combines the most effective elements of ancestral Horus Heresy patterns of plate with more recent developments in power armour technology. He carries into battle a bolt rifle: the archetypal firearm of Space Marines, re-engineered, re-crafted and perfected*.

At the dawn of the Indomitus Crusade, these phenomenal new warriors join Guilliman as he fights to liberate the scattered bastions of the Imperium. Some, Guilliman has forged into new Space Marine Chapters, whole brotherhoods comprised only of these new warriors. Others he has offered to the existing Space Marine Chapters. Many Chapter Masters have welcomed their Primaris brethren into their ranks, accepting the new reinforcements gladly. Others, though, view these new creations with suspicion or outright hostility, claiming that the Emperor's work should not have been meddled with.

Though they are a step removed from their brothers, the Primaris Space Marines still bear the gene-seed of their Primarchs, and some dissenting voices worry how this new type of warrior will react with the known genetic quirks and flaws of some of the more unusual Chapters...

*Range 30, Strength 4, AP -1 and Rapid Fire.
Click to expand...

FAQ: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/primaris-space-marines-faq-may15gw-homepage-post-2/
So, what's a Primaris Space Marine?

These are a brand-new breed of warrior, commissioned by the Primarch Guilliman and developed in secret on Mars for the past 10,000 years by Archmagos Belisarius Cawl. Find out all about them and check out an awesome video here.

Are all my current Space Marine miniatures redundant now?

No way! Primaris Space Marines do not replace regular (if a superhuman killing machine can be described as ‘regular') Space Marines. These guys have a few extra genetic enhancements, thanks to Belisarius Cawl, and serve as additional reinforcements in the Adeptus Astartes arsenal, not replacements.

Will there be multiple types of Primaris Space Marines?

You bet. So far you've seen the Intercessors, the line infantry clad in Mk X armour, but there are plenty more on the way. And likely vehicles too...

Wait, Mk X armour?

Yup, these guys have new armour: combining the best bits of classic Horus Heresy-era plate, with some fancy tech developed more recently.

Can I field a whole army of Primaris Marines?

You totally can. From a background point of view, some Chapters, especially those decimated in the events of the Gathering Storm, now have entire companies of these new warriors. Others have incorporated squads of Primaris Space Marines into existing Battle Companies. And perhaps most excitingly, Guilliman has founded some entirely new Chapters out of these new Space Marines.

I have an <insert favourite Chapter> army. Can I field Primaris Space Marines?

Any of the galaxy's many hundreds of Codex Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines, along with many of the less Codex-compliant ones like Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves.

So, Primaris are just better in the game, right? What's the point of using older Space Marines?

Marine to Marine, they certainly have some advantages over a Tactical Squad, but it comes at a cost. These guys will cost more points than standard Space Marines, so you'll have fewer of them, and their weapon options will be different. For maximum tactical punch, you'll want to bring all your Space Marines to the tabletop.

What if I don't want to use them?

Well, aside from missing out on some cool new models and tactical options for your army, then that's totally cool. You certainly don't have to include Primaris Space Marines in your Space Marines army. Though when you see the Primaris Redemptor Dreadnought, you'll want to. Primaris Dreadnought? Did I write that...? Nah. Moving on.

Are the kits compatible with existing Space Marine kits?

Good Question. There are certainly elements of the existing Space Marines kits that will be cross-compatible, while the new armour mark means that some parts won't mix as easily. Shoulder pads and helmets are the same scale, and will still work, whereas the legs, torso and arms are different, and not quite as interchangeable. In terms of the Primaris sets themselves, you'll have loads of fun kit-bashing them.

Can I use these guys alongside my Astra Militarum army?

Yeah you can. These new Space Marines will be available to use alongside all Imperial armies to fill some battlefield roles your army might normally struggle with.

Do the Primaris Space Marines play nice with the Adeptus Custodes?

They sure do. Many of the Emperor's elite golden guard are accompanying Gulliman and the Primaris Space Marines on the Indomitus Crusade.

But I play Chaos! Where are my super-super-human reinforcements?

First off, that'll teach you for turning your back on the Emperor. Secondly, did you not see the Death Guard teaser video? The Chaos Gods have not been idle &#8211; we guarantee there are some warp-charged hulking warriors on their way for you guys in the not too distant future.

Guilliman be blessed, these guys are rad! When can I get them?

Primaris Space Marines will be available alongside the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. Oh and while we're on the subject, we'll be announcing the release date before the end of this month...
Click to expand...
 
L

Leunam

Member
Eh. I'll have to see the models. It's going to be a little odd for me seeing these guys next to standard Marines without enough of a difference in their armor design to make them stand out even more, like seeing Marines next to Terminators.
 
G

Geist-

Member
Leunam said:
Eh. I'll have to see the models. It's going to be a little odd for me seeing these guys next to standard Marines without enough of a difference in their armor design to make them stand out even more, like seeing Marines next to Terminators.
Click to expand...
rVtFmoO.jpg
Click to expand...

Not too big a difference. Since I'll be getting into this game with 8th it will be nice to put together a full truescale marine force.
 
G

Greigor The Fellhand

Member
I'm curious to see if the old marines can undergo a process to become these new guys. this would allow the character line to be updated and still be, mephiston, calgar, grimnar\


also:

notice the "captain" of the primaris marines is on a 30% larger base
 
N

Nazo

Member
I really like the new Marines. They do kinda make me regret buying a Start Collecting Space Marine box a week ago...
 
G

Greigor The Fellhand

Member
New40kIntercessorDatasheet.jpg

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/primaris-space-marines-gaming-may15gw-homepage-post-4/

save, bolters (albeit, up-gunned a bit), and the usual frag/krak grenade loadout. There are some definite differences though.

2 wounds puts Intercessors somewhere between your typical power armoured Space Marine and a Terminator in terms of survivability. Compared to a Tactical Squad Space Marine, who only has a single wound, an Intercessor will last twice as long against small arms fire but will die just as quickly to heavy weapons. Terminators have the same number of wounds as a Primaris Marine, but their better armour and invulnerable save means that they will last longer against all types of weapons.

That bolt rifle is pretty cool too. This is the iconic bolter armament of the Space Marines with a bit more kick. It has additional range and armour piercing punch over a standard bolt gun, meaning Intercessors will do well in a shoot-out against most current Warhammer 40,000 Troops units, and thanks to the new Strength vs Toughness system, they can even start to menace lighter vehicles, wounding any vehicle smaller than a Gorkanaut on 5's and reducing its save by 1.

That said, like the Legions of the Great Crusade, they don't have options for heavy or assault weapons within the squad, so there are still situations where a Tactical Squad will be better suited &#8211; bringing lascannons, flamers or other specialist weapons with them for greater tactical flexibility.

Though not melee specialists, the Intercessor's two attacks makes them pretty handy in a fight. In close combat, they can also use their bolt pistols to fire point-blank into enemy units in the shooting phase. The enemy will need dedicated assault troops or lots of bodies to overwhelm a Primaris Space Marine up close.

You can see on the datasheet too, that you can select a <Chapter> as a faction keyword. That means you can add Primaris Space Marines to your Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Iron Hands, Rainbow Warriors, or any other Codex Chapter you like, even one of your own invention.

Of course, all this comes at a price. Intercessors cost a fair few more points than a Tactical Marine; an army composed entirely of Primaris Marines will be a fairly compact, but utterly lethal and elite force. You can expect these guys to make a big impact on any game in which they make an appearance.

And remember, the Intercessor is just one type of Primaris Space Marine that Guilliman ordered up from Mars to defend the galaxy. We'll have news on a few others very soon...
Click to expand...
 
T

TheVoidDragon

Member
I find that expanded lore or the new Space Marines even more absurd than just the idea itself. It doesn't fit in with the setting, and it's not even consistent with the lore we got about it previous. Cawl hasn't been working on it for 10,000 years from what we were told, he said he'd stopped while the "galaxy burned" and only just started again. The models for them are great, but the whole idea of the Imperium (or more specifically one person) being able to perfect the Emperor's work, develop even better armour, vehicles, equipment etc, have massive amounts of them and overall just have "Better Space Marines" is just a stupid idea that completely goes against one of the core themes of the setting.

It also seems somewhat pointless from a gameplay perspective, was a halfway between Tactical Marines and Terminators really needed?
 
L

Little Old Man

Member
TheVoidDragon said:
I find that expanded lore or the new Space Marines even more absurd than just the idea itself. It doesn't fit in with the setting, and it's not even consistent with the lore we got about it previous. Cawl hasn't been working on it for 10,000 years from what we were told, he said he'd stopped while the "galaxy burned" and only just started again. The models for them are great, but the whole idea of the Imperium (or more specifically one person) being able to perfect the Emperor's work, develop even better armour, vehicles, equipment etc, have massive amounts of them and overall just have "Better Space Marines" is just a stupid idea that completely goes against one of the core themes of the setting.

It also seems somewhat pointless from a gameplay perspective, was a halfway between Tactical Marines and Terminators really needed?
Click to expand...

It definitely feels like a cumbersome explanation in universe. But imo it's just GW taking the path of least resistance to replacing all marine kits with models of equal size in the long term (5-10 years).
 
I

It's Reyn Time!

Member
Interesting about them still having the gene seeds (and flaws) of their respective primarchs, I kinda assumed the new marines would all just be Rowboat clones.

Primaris Wulfen please.
To make up for the horrific nerfing they're inevitably going to receive in 8th edition :(
 
M

Mr_Antimatter

Member
TheVoidDragon said:
I find that expanded lore or the new Space Marines even more absurd than just the idea itself. It doesn't fit in with the setting, and it's not even consistent with the lore we got about it previous. Cawl hasn't been working on it for 10,000 years from what we were told, he said he'd stopped while the "galaxy burned" and only just started again. The models for them are great, but the whole idea of the Imperium (or more specifically one person) being able to perfect the Emperor's work, develop even better armour, vehicles, equipment etc, have massive amounts of them and overall just have "Better Space Marines" is just a stupid idea that completely goes against one of the core themes of the setting.

It also seems somewhat pointless from a gameplay perspective, was a halfway between Tactical Marines and Terminators really needed?
Click to expand...

The equipment thing isn't surprising to me, even the painfully slow advancements of the mechanicus still produce newer stuff sometimes.

As for "better space marines" The Raven guard were able to do that during the HH, it's possible that their work was continues, albeit at a much slower, careful rate, resulting in the primus marines.
 
L

Little Old Man

Member
Back on my desktop, so I can actually see the new models properly. I'm really impressed with them. They are totally in keeping with the current line, but look far better in 'true scale'.

Time to put them onto the list of 'miniatures I'd love to buy and paint a squad of but probably will never get round it'.
 
G

GarthVaderUK

Banned
Little Old Man said:
But imo it's just GW taking the path of least resistance to replacing all marine kits with models of equal size in the long term (5-10 years).
Click to expand...

I could see that happening, yeah - all new Space Marine kits going forward could be based around these guys, then eventually they could phase the older kits out.
 
M

Maledict

Member
I'm not particularly fussed with the lore, I'm just disappointed it's effectively Malibu Stacey with a new hat. Blue space marines, only slightly bigger!

I mean, the models are clearly better, it just feels like a massive non-announcement in total. But I guess I'm not the target as I've been particularly enamoured of normal space marines anyway.
 
T

TheVoidDragon

Member
Mr_Antimatter said:
The equipment thing isn't surprising to me, even the painfully slow advancements of the mechanicus still produce newer stuff sometimes.

As for "better space marines" The Raven guard were able to do that during the HH, it's possible that their work was continues, albeit at a much slower, careful rate, resulting in the primus marines.
Click to expand...

Those advancements take thousands of years and are heavily debated/argued. That's not even counting that Space Marine armour and equipment was already progressing, so whatever work Cawl started would have been made obsolete was he was working on it and he'd have to keep updating, as this is clearly an armour pattern that has taken into account the previous more recent version. Either way it goes against one of the core themes of the setting about the Imperium (and whole setting) being stagnant, backwards, having little technological process and everything being weighed down by too much bureaucracy and lack of change. That's an important aspect of the Imperium that this sudden appearance of all these new Marines that are just better in every way and have better everything doesn't seem to take into account in the slightest.

I don't know the exact details of what the Raven Guard did and can't find it on the Lexicanum, but the previous attempts at someone trying to better the Emperor's work ended up with the Cursed founding.
 
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