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Warhammer 40,000 |OT| In the Grim Darkness of the Community Forum There Is Only War

A

Android18a

Member
I'm super OK with the snap-fit type models, having a few with the same pose doesn't bother me at all. But then I grew up with 2nd edition and 4/5th edition Fantasy so monopose kits were the standard in plastic back then. 40 identical Wood Elf archers...
 
G

GarthVaderUK

Banned
Death Guard Faction Focus: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/23/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-death-guard/
40kFFDeathGuardArmy.jpg


Death Guard in the current edition play to their background relatively well thanks to their high Toughness and having the Feel No Pain universal special rule. This is further backed up by Plague Marines being able to wound fleshy targets more easily with their poisoned blades. However, due to their high points cost in what we will soon be calling matched play, they aren’t actually seen on the tabletops in very high numbers.

Let’s see how they play in new Warhammer 40,000.

First of all, they keep a pain-ignoring mechanic, which is now called Disgustingly Resilient, as we saw with Nurglings. The best thing about it is that you still get the save, even if you get hit with high Strength weapons that would have previously prevented you from getting a save due to the Instant Death rule. However, the fact that those high-Strength weapons usually do more than 1 Damage now, means you may need to take multiple Disgustingly Resilient rolls. Furthermore, in an all Death Guard Detachment, Plague Marines are Troops – which can help you unlock more Command Points with a Battalion detachment.

40kFFDeathGuardPlagueMarines.jpg


Plague Marines are still Toughness 5, which means a lot of attacks only wound them on 5s. Their plague knives now allow you to re-roll wound rolls of 1 in close combat, but I think the most exciting thing about the new Plague Marines, is their new weapon, the blight launcher – an Assault 2, Strength 6, AP -2 weapon that deals D3 damage at 24″ range. Plague Marines will be tearing enemies apart from a distance and in combat. Overall, a very dependable Troops choice.

Another unit to get excited about are Poxwalkers, the other Troops choice for the Death Guard. Coming in at 6 points in matched play with Disgustingly Resilient, they are a very solid pick. This unit also never has to take morale tests, which means you have to kill them to the last man (zombie?) which is not an easy task. Another cool rule they have is Curse of the Walking Pox, allowing you to add another Poxwalker to the unit every time they slay any enemy Infantry models. This unit is great for holding objectives or for screening your more valuable units from the hyper-fast assault units we’ve seen in armies like Tyranids. Also, if you’ve got Typhus on the table, he increases the Strength and Toughness of nearby Poxwalkers by 1 with his special ability, bolstering their already formidable durability!

40kFFDeathGuardPoxwalkers.jpg


The Death Guard also get Miasma of Pestilence – a psychic power which you cast onto one of your own units so that, until your next turn, your opponent must subtract 1 from all hit rolls that target that unit. This paired with the high Toughness of this faction and Disgustingly Resilient makes Death Guard units extraordinarily difficult to get rid of, just as you’d expect them to be.

There’s more to say of course, but our time is running out today. I hope you are ready to bring your Death Guard army out of retirement!
Click to expand...
 
S

SillyEskimo

Member
My local store is having a pretty cool "unboxing and assembly" event for the new 40k. They're going to have snips and glue for all. Everyone is encouraged to trade with the others what they don't want. I have a feeling that the Primaris Marines are going to be a hot ticket item and no one will want to trade them though, lol.
 
S

StaffyManasse

Member
It might be just normal resistance to change talking, but I'm also not quite sold on the new marines as of yet. Especially if they are replacing the design of the terminator armor and the jump marines looks plain dumb.

Also I'm worried they are phasing out my whole army (which I'm pretty sure they are gradually doing, when the new starter set is primaris only). It's funny actually. Tactical marines getting double squatted lol.

Also, it seems like they might be toning down the (can I say grimdark here) religious themes and the technological, political and social stagnation of the Imperium of Man with all this Advancement. Not a fan, if so. The Imperium of Man being a spectacularly failed enlightenment project is something I love about the setting and I hope it won't be lost. Also, I hope they don't make it too much of a goodies vs. baddies now.

I'm probably starting 8th edition with Tyranids and see where they go with the primaris stuff. My quess is there will be new primaris Blood Angels and primaris Space Wolves etc. at some point. Not going to release one kit in the old scale I am pretty sure.
Sisters please!
 
C

cntr

Banned
What they're going for, I think, is that by having the Great Rift, the normal Imperium can advance and become somewhat better, but the Dark Imperium is apocalyptically screwed.

So you have a slightly brighter Imperium and a grimdark Imperium to choose from without contradiction.

edit: Also, I'd bet that normal non-Primaris Marines are still going to be common in the Dark Imperium, hence the distinction.
 
S

StaffyManasse

Member
cntr said:
What they're going for, I think, is that by having the Great Rift, the normal Imperium can advance and become somewhat better, but the Dark Imperium is apocalyptically screwed.

So you have a slightly brighter Imperium and a grimdark Imperium to choose from without contradiction.
Click to expand...

If that's the case, Dark Imperium for life!

cntr said:
edit: Also, I'd bet that normal non-Primaris Marines are still going to be common in the Dark Imperium, hence the distinction.
Click to expand...

Might be, but I still think they are not going to release anything new in the "old scale" anymore.
 
C

cntr

Banned
The Dark Imperium doesn't have the Astronomicon, and they're facing both Chaos and Leviathan. They aren't just grimdark, they're fucked.
 
F

Fou-Lu

Member
I didn't like the Primaris Jetpack Marines at first, but seeing them from more angles has made them my favourites in the box. They have such an old school Gundam feel to them.
 
C

Cosmic Schwung

Member
Damn, new plague marines are massive.

cntr said:
The Dark Imperium doesn't have the Astronomicon, and they're facing both Chaos and Leviathan. They aren't just grimdark, they're fucked.
Click to expand...

A Dark Imperium, you say? It's just as well all guardsmen are issued with a flashlight then.












I'll see myself out.
 
G

GarthVaderUK

Banned
Missions: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/25/new-warhammer-40000-missions/
Missions are still a big part of the new Warhammer 40,000.

Experienced players will often tell you that it's just as important to play the mission as to obliterate your enemy to secure victory, and that's just as true now.

There are a lot of missions in the new Warhammer 40,000 book, which will give players hundreds of hours of variety.

The most basic mission, Only War, is flexible enough for any style of game. This mission works with armies of any size (though two that have comparable total power levels work best). This mission will be available as part of the free rules in the Warhammer 40,000 Battle Primer and, of course, in the new book itself.

New40kMissionsOnlyWar.jpg


You can see that the mission is simple to set up, and the varying objective types still make it a variable game that will have a lot of replayability.

For you veteran players out there, you may be looking for something a bit more in depth. Fear not, for you will have plenty of options.

There are three open play missions that give a bit more variety to your games: Annihilation, Hold at All Costs and Death or Glory – each an archetypal mission fit for any collection.

Narrative play brings more options still, and the rules for these missions are a bit more in-depth. There are six of these in the book: Meat Grinder, Ambush, Patrol, Blitz, Sabotage and Rescue. Each comes with not just new mission rules, but three new Stratagems for the Attacker and three for the Defender, making these games quite distinct from a traditional game. Here are a few examples from the Sabotage mission:

New40kMissionsSabotageStrats.jpg


And of course, we have matched play. A lot of these missions will be familiar to players today. You still have your six Eternal War and six Maelstrom of War missions, but with a few tweaks since their last outing. One big change is we now have six deployment maps, rather than the three of today. Players of a certain vintage might recognise some of these from even older editions.

New40kMissionsMap.jpg


As well as some changes to the missions and maps, we also have changes to the objectives, particularly in Maelstrom of War. The objective deck has been re-done from the ground up while keeping the feel of that type of game, with its constantly changing and updated orders.

The biggest change in Maelstrom of War, though, might be this little addition: a new Stratagem that any army can use.

New40kMissionsNewOrders.jpg


How often would this have come in handy in the past when fate dealt you a poor hand?
Click to expand...

The 'New Orders' Stratagem could come in very handy indeed!
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Regarding Genestealer Cults

Please tell me The Imperium of Man is going around exterminating "people" that stay bald from birth.
 
G

GarthVaderUK

Banned
Da Orkz iz 'ere! https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/25/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-orks/
One of the biggest changes for Orks is the way the new AP system impacts both their offence and defence. Units like Meganobz, who have a 2+ save (and now 3 Wounds!), will find themselves being able to soak hits from things that used to kill them in one shot and keep on killin’ thanks to the save they now get. A lascannon, for example, doesn’t bypass their armour entirely and they have decent odds of surviving, even if they fail their save.

But what about the basic grunt in the Ork army, you may be asking? What about da Boyz? You so rarely see Ork Boyz on the table these days, and an Ork Nob, often swinging last in combat with nothing but a lowly 6+ save to protect him, was not exactly a feared opponent in a challenge.

Boyz will get their save against most light weapons now, as a 6+ is not ignored by so many weapons as it once was. Also, as there are no more challenges in melee, a Nob will no longer be forced to focus all his attention on smashing just one foe. Excitingly, it won’t always be a no-brainer choice to take a power klaw, either. The Big Choppa is now quite an appealing choice thanks to a more scalable AP system, and the kombi-skorcha is positively mean!
Click to expand...
40kFFOrksProfile.jpg

Morale is not nearly as problematic for Orks as it was, either. The Boyz have multiple layers of morale defence built into their army. The best way to mitigate it is by having a Warboss within 3″ of a unit of Orks; he can simply knock a few of them senseless (D3, to be exact) to keep the rest of the Boyz in line and in the fight. Nobz squads also help to keep Orks from leggin’ it by rolling a D6 for each nearby Ork that tries to flee, and on the result of a 6, they do not. These are all in addition to the Mob Rule! which allows a unit of Orks to use a leadership value equal to their unit size or the leadership value of a nearby Ork unit. These are great for keeping big mobs of Boyz in the fight!

But that’s not all, folks! Orks, you will find, are all about layering bonuses onto the Boyz for force multiplication. I’ve listed a few of them so far, but there are many more. A Painboy gives nearby Ork Infantry and Biker units a 6+ save against wounds suffered. A Big Mek with a Kustom Force Field gives nearby Ork units a 5+ invulnerable save against shooting attacks. And by the way, you can take BOTH of these saves! There are many more bonuses available to you, depending on how you build your army, but my favourite is the Warboss’s WAAAGH! ability, which allows friendly Ork units within 6″ to charge even if they advanced. Combine this with the ‘Ere We Go special rule that allows Orks to re-roll failed charge rolls and holy smokes, you’ve got a fighting force to be feared!

There’s so much more to discuss but alas, I am running out of space. Ork players should be pumped, as so much of that classic melee mob Orky playstyle now pays off. Blow the dust off of your Killa Kans and Gorkanauts and get ready for a WAAAGHly good time (sorry, I couldn’t help myself!).

One last little tidbit though, before I go: the Ork Weirdboy is a fantastic choice in the new edition, and one of his powers, Da Jump, is particularly awesome. It allows an Ork Infantry unit within 6″ of the Weirdboy to be teleported to any point more than 9″ away from enemy units on the battlefield (and remember, no more scattering!). This makes for quite the nasty surprise when a mob of 30 Ork Boyz appears behind enemy lines!
Click to expand...
Lots of thematic rules and synergy there, seems like Ork hordez will be viable!
 
I

It's Reyn Time!

Member
What the fuck at the Ork update -_-

Orks are much better now! *Cue list of ways Orks are objectively weaker than this edition*

The only positive out of all of that is morale might be better if you invest in big squads and multiple failsafes. Feel no pain is gimped, power klaws are weaker (but hey, now they're not much better than a big choppa so you have a choice now!) meganobz have scaled worse than terminators, kustom force field is still useless...

Even the things which aren't gimped are being described exactly as they currently work.
 
T

Triteon

Member
Thid might get me back in, i havent played since 4th ed. I kept buying models here and there but im a sucker for Death Guard/papa nurgle and i have a nice forge world death guard army.

Anyone have any idea how good the edition will be in terms of mechanics?
 
W

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
It's Reyn Time! said:
What the fuck at the Ork update -_-

Orks are much better now! *Cue list of ways Orks are objectively weaker than this edition*

The only positive out of all of that is morale might be better if you invest in big squads and multiple failsafes. Feel no pain is gimped, power klaws are weaker (but hey, now they're not much better than a big choppa so you have a choice now!) meganobz have scaled worse than terminators, kustom force field is still useless...

Even the things which aren't gimped are being described exactly as they currently work.
Click to expand...

dude play the game. you can't judge how a game actually works without the full context: game design is hard. Incidentally this is why I don't like how GW is teasing the rules although I do appreciate them being so open.
 
I

It's Reyn Time!

Member
War Peaceman said:
dude play the game. you can't judge how a game actually works without the full context: game design is hard. Incidentally this is why I don't like how GW is teasing the rules although I do appreciate them being so open.
Click to expand...

The army previews have been really informative, giving good insight that they've understood problems with certain armies (whether they've been over or underpowered and the reasons behind that, with steps to address those issues) but this one falls so completely short of the others. Now whether that's because it's just really poorly written, or because the writer chose poor units to show how they've addressed the issues with Orks I don't know. Vehicle changes could seem to suggest that the plethora of Ork walkers might be about to come into their own, so why not give us a paragraph on that? instead we get the writer talking up their 6+ save and feel no pain rolls which are now half as effective.
 
T

Tacitus_

Member
It's Reyn Time! said:
What the fuck at the Ork update -_-

Orks are much better now! *Cue list of ways Orks are objectively weaker than this edition*

The only positive out of all of that is morale might be better if you invest in big squads and multiple failsafes. Feel no pain is gimped, power klaws are weaker (but hey, now they're not much better than a big choppa so you have a choice now!) meganobz have scaled worse than terminators, kustom force field is still useless...

Even the things which aren't gimped are being described exactly as they currently work.
Click to expand...

Meganobz have one more wound than termies.
I think you're fretting too much, as everything is getting rebalanced and they got tournament people to play test the rules.
 
G

GarthVaderUK

Banned
New40kPrimarisCaptain.jpg

Like all the Space Marines' greatest commanders, he's great at combat in all forms, hitting up close and at range on a 2+. That Gravis armour brings some benefits too. While lacking some of the impenetrable defence against small arms fire that Terminator armour brings, it makes up for that with an increased Toughness, meaning even heavy weaponry will struggle to bring him down easily. He has 6 Wounds, which is pretty solid too, though Characters generally have more Wounds in the new Warhammer 40,000 – even a lascannon will be lucky to kill him in a single shot.

Maybe the main reason you bring this guy though is for the re-roll to hit he provides to those nearby. This ability is awesome on things like Tactical and Intercessor Squads, even better on Devastator Squads, and on plasma-toting Hellblasters? Well, we'll just let you work that one out....
Click to expand...
New40kPrimarisInceptor.jpg

Next up, the Inceptor Squad, These guys are the Primaris Space Marines' answer to a lot of things: they combine the speed of Assault Squads, the durability of units like Bikes and the ability to drop in from space mid-battle, AND they pack a fair combat punch as they make a charge. Oh, and those guns are basically hand held heavy bolters (albeit, with a much reduced range).
Click to expand...
https://www.warhammer-community.com...000-primaris-space-marinesgw-homepage-post-4/
 
A

AbsolutBro

Member
Gotta side with Reyn on the Ork faction article. If it was supposed to inspire confidence that my greenskins will stop collecting dust next to my Tyranids, it failed spectacularly. "You'll actually get to fail that T-Shirt save!" Is hardly a thing worth touting, and "You get to roll these things also!" When those things got nerfed from their already marginal state... It is possible there are super changes for Orks that, for whatever reason, they decided not to even discuss in a "Faction Focus" article. But that doesn't change the fact that as a hype article, that one is a miserable failure.
 
manfestival

manfestival

Member
AbsolutBro said:
Gotta side with Reyn on the Ork faction article. If it was supposed to inspire confidence that my greenskins will stop collecting dust next to my Tyranids, it failed spectacularly. "You'll actually get to fail that T-Shirt save!" Is hardly a thing worth touting, and "You get to roll these things also!" When those things got nerfed from their already marginal state... It is possible there are super changes for Orks that, for whatever reason, they decided not to even discuss in a "Faction Focus" article. But that doesn't change the fact that as a hype article, that one is a miserable failure.
Click to expand...
That's the same thing that happened for the tau. Literally nothing special was discussed other than a drone.
 
T

TheVoidDragon

Member
manfestival said:
That's the same thing that happened for the tau. Literally nothing special was discussed other than a drone.
Click to expand...

While is it true that they didn't talk about everything, they're supposed to be articles that show how that army will play in the new edition and how they're going to be different. You'd think they'd show what makes the army worthwhile now when compared to before.
 
A

AbsolutBro

Member
manfestival said:
That's the same thing that happened for the tau. Literally nothing special was discussed other than a drone.
Click to expand...
Last I checked (and I admit it's been awhile) Tau were already a competitive army, so "more of the same, also your dudes are basically immune to sniper weapons!" is less of an issue then "your army is considered junk, but hey t-shirts!". I mean, if the Tau focus did nothing for you then I would say it's a pretty bad article as well. At least with SM and DG they showcased a few new things. I genuinely cannot remember if the Ork focus even included a unit profile.
 
T

Tacitus_

Member
TheVoidDragon said:
While is it true that they didn't talk about everything, they're supposed to be articles that show how that army will play in the new edition and how they're going to be different. You'd think they'd show what makes the army worthwhile now when compared to before.
Click to expand...

Full mob of Boyz having 30 LD and sharing that with nearby units is a pretty big deal. I read a bunch of worries about how hordes would deal with the morale casualties and they focused a lot on that.
 
I

It's Reyn Time!

Member
manfestival said:
That's the same thing that happened for the tau. Literally nothing special was discussed other than a drone.
Click to expand...

Tau are coming from an edition where shooting dominated, as probably the shootiest faction. Their article showed that, yes, we're nerfing some of the more horrendously overpowered units, but also you'll be able to stroll out of close combat and absolutely punish units who charge at you with nearby units. It showed that while the changes aren't going to empower the Tau, it brings new tactics which Tau can leverage to their advantage. That doesn't apply to the Ork article.
 
G

GarthVaderUK

Banned
If you take what was revealed for the Ork boyz in context with the other 8th edition rules changes, I think they'll perform better than before. On average, I think they'll be more resilient, they'll have a greater threat range, they'll be more likely to make charges, they'll be able to strike first in combats more often, and they'll have a greater ability to deal with morale.
 
T

Tacitus_

Member
Geist- said:
Someone has been posting photos from the rulebook, made an album if anyone wants to check them out.

https://imgur.com/a/Nn1V3
Click to expand...

Hellblasters don't mention getting hot without explicitly juicing them up for more damage. I wonder if that applies to other plasma weapons or will only the cool new kids get that rule (or lack of one).

E: nevermind, it's mentioned later that their rifle is made by Cawl and specifically doesn't explode in your hands
 
T

Tacitus_

Member
TheVoidDragon said:
That seems like a really, really disappointing outcome. The
Daemon part is interesting
but the other part is just
"Guilliman arrives out of nowhere at the exact right moment somehow and suddenly it's all fine!"
Click to expand...

A shame, but that's their usual way to resolve such things. Warzone Damocles and The Gathering Storm were full of such events. Like the Fists starfort crashing into the Cadia system after an emergency warp jump from Terra's orbit, arriving just in time to stop Abaddon wasting the planet with the Blackstone Fortresses.
 
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