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[Alexios]

I mean, sure you can't play GTAIII or San Andreas on Dreamcast at their wonderful ~20 fps as on the mighty PlayStation 2 since it was discontinued before AAA development really took off but you can play all these and many more gems so Dreamcast held its own while it lasted and holds up

I edited the timestamps, Crazy Taxi 2's last missions take you through the whole city (in impressive speeds & 60 fps), Skies of Arcadia's intro at the start is amazing but the timestamp shows one of many cool effects it casually throws, F355's intro is sweet but so is the Long Beach course etc.

I couldn't find a better quality or quicker Le Mans video showing all it has going for it with real time day/night cycles, lighting, flare, glowing, rain, lens, reflection etc. effects in full 24 car races so that comparison with the PC version of that era will have to do since it includes all of that stuff.

PSA: When looking for Dreamcast footage be mindful of the state of the hardware (or emulation quality which I avoid, I'm only not certain about Sakura Taisen 4 above but decent footage of those games is rare). A DOA2 video I've since replaced, either due to a worn drive or because of a modded Dreamcast with the loading issues some drive replacement devices seem to have, often paused the image while taking longer than normal to load the next scene. It both looked wrong and the music got completely desynced so the last intro part was silent, here's Crazy Taxi chugging on a similarly problematic Dreamcast. Many more games look great, the Shenmues, Maken X, Grandia II or Tokyo Xtreme Racer 2 and even some of the better PS1 ports are tranformed on Dreamcast while low budget/effort stuff like the Atomiswave's bootleg Initial D wannabe Faster than Speed look solid too, showing it wasn't so hard to do well on the system (some of the best graphics are in launch window games after all, then again almost its whole life was a launch window being so short) but most companies just didn't care or even have the know how at the time, pioneering times for 3D and all.​

 

[Happosai]

Oh, no, I've got Power Stone 2 on my list. If I wrote down a Top 30, the first game would be there for sure. I love them both and really wish Capcom would bring the series back, but I do prefer the chaotic Smash Brothers multiplayer (and the alchemy item creation mode) of the sequel over the original.

Now that's sweet. There have been remasters of DC games over the years and I still keep up hope that we'll see Power Stone 1 & 2 again.

 

[tecmo9000]

To this day, no other games blew my mind graphically like NBA and NFL 2K.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

No Sonic Adventure game?

Invalid list.

Not to mention no Skies of Arcadia and Grandia 2

 

[SkylineRKR]

Its only 20 games. You can't put them all there. +1 for NBA Showtime which is my fave NBA Jam release of all time. I bought the game discounted when I had an arcade stick and I played it for ages.

As for 2K, for some reason I always prefered the original NBA 2K. And I prefered Powerstone 1 and MVC1. Though for party play Powerstone 2 was absolutely better.

4 player actually did elevate some games. We also played a lot of Spawn like this. The game wasn't particularly good, but very fun.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

The answer would likely be a resounding "No".

I disagree . CSK-Sega was a bolder company than SegaSammy, but boldness without sales volume, fails.
If we think for a minute our beloved Dreamcast was made by the company during a period of decline. The brand was tired, from 1988 to 1998 Sega released one piece of hardware per year, about 8 pieces of hardware in a decade but the main thing they didn't have - High-grossing games. Just Sonic, it's impossible to sustain a console for 5 years with just one best seller. N64 survived the Playstation hurricane because Mario 64, Zelda guaranteed the console's existence during that generation. SegaSammy has more money than the old CSK-Sega and games that sell more like Total War, Sonic Frontiers and Persona. They just don't have a console. But if they did, it would be better than the Dreamcast, for sure.

 

[Alexios]

Looks like I've missed a couple Dreamcast indie gems. I thought most just prey on nostalgia (Shadow Gangs, Xenocider) or the gimmick of being on Dreamcast at all (Xeno Crisis, Pier Solar), especially if seemingly ambitious (but they couldn't and don't stack up to the greats, again Xenocider, Arcade Racing Legends). But I was surprised to discover this one. I almost bought the Dreamcast version on a whim, it looks so charming even though I usually dislike this kind of art style, it works in the end as the main character is animated nicely and looks cool with the different costumes etc.

​

Granted I should probably just get it on Steam instead, like most of the other games mentioned above (great, if few, ratings there btw). It seems there's also an updated Xenocider set for release on Steam (if it's not been abandoned, I feel like I've noticed the game page ages ago before, maybe).

 

[JackMcGunns]

I got one…

Was the PS2 actually powerful, or the beneficiary of no GameCube or Xbox around. Same logic.

 

[Alexios]

Missed this a few days before.

Interview: Retro-Bit Unveils Early Dreamcast Pad Prototypes

The SHIRO! team caught up with Rich and Andy from Retro-Bit at the Portland Retro Gaming Expo, and we were focused primarily on covering the much anticipated Saturn Wireless Pro Controller. However…

www.segasaturnshiro.com

This is what Dreamcast should have launched with (a Saturn 3D Controller with rumble and VMU slot). Retro bit has done me dirty but this and their new dual analog Saturn controller look great if nothing else and the latter is in theory a great all in one, for retro, fighting, 2D, or modern games pad.

 

[Alexios]

Less celebrated but crazy awesome shit for their time (PSO is well known but it's hardly exciting in most footage/first experiences which don't resemble how it really could be played online back then but with folks reviving Dreamcast online playability in that and other games it can be shown off).
​

My only memory of it was playing Spyro on it at a friend's.

Er, there's no Spyro game on the Dreamcast (though folks have apparently managed to run it on those bleemcast discs that's a relatively recent development, not something you'd have casually seen back in the day at all) or even any notable 3D platform games outside Sonic and Rayman 2 at that.​

 

[Tams]

My only memory of it was playing Spyro on it at a friend's. It looked cool and I really wanted one.

I wasn't allowed home consoles as a child though, so I never really got to play one much.

 

[LordOcidax]

Thats a fact OP, you don’t need a poll for that.

 

[Nikodemos]

This is what Dreamcast should have launched with (a Saturn 3D Controller with rumble and VMU slot). Retro bit has done me dirty but this and their new dual analog Saturn controller look great if nothing else and the latter is in theory a great all in one, for retro, fighting, 2D, or modern games pad.

Regarding rumble, there's a bit of interesting history as to how and why it was an add-on in the earlier console gens. Rumble in the US was gatekept by a small company which owned a bunch of patents on most of the ways you could do rumble in an economically-feasible manner. That's why Nintendo and Sega had rumble add-on packs. They didn't want to pay royalties on every controller they produced. It was pretty much the same reason DVD movie playback was linked to the remote on the Xbox. The only ones who fought this were Sony, and the only reason they eventually won (and rumble eventually became built in) was because they threatened that company they'd pull a Creative - Aureal on them (litigate them into bankruptcy).

 

[Alexios]

Under Defeat was translated to English this month. Of course it was always perfectly playable but at least you can also understand the intro/outro and what not as well now. Trizeal, too (but that one's not particularly impressive, still cool to have). I can't find great real footage of either patch though.

Under Defeat English Translation - Dreamcast-Talk.com

GitHub - DerekPascarella/Trizeal-EnglishPatchDreamcast: About English translation patch for the Sega Dreamcast game "Trizeal".

About English translation patch for the Sega Dreamcast game "Trizeal". - DerekPascarella/Trizeal-EnglishPatchDreamcast

github.com

​

 

[Alexios]

After Sega Saturn MGS we get a Dreamcast MGS2 tech demo. Fun stuff but I think at this point it's patreon subscriber clout for the creator (who is using other people's engines to make these tech demos and will of course never be able to fully recreate complex games from AAA teams of their era).

At least it shows it's just polygons & textures, Dreamcast largely missed out on matured/AAA techniques, you can't be so harsh with Virtua Fighter 3 as a pioneering 1996 arcade game pushing (and wasting) tons of polygons vs Soulcalibur which uses way less with better art (then DOA2 does both).​

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

I don’t understand this question. When Dreamcast launched, it was far & away the most powerful console that had ever been released.

I really dunno what else you are asking here, man

 

[Alexios]

I played Daytona USA 2 through Like a Dragon Gaiden. It's the frst time I get to play it as I never bothered emulating it myself. I'm not sure emulation is 100% accurate, some of the smoke/tire/fire effects seem a little bit off (but maybe they always were, it all goes by so fast, plus it probably works better on an arcade CRT screen). Otherwise it (Fighting Vipers 2 too) seems to run in higher resolution with no other enhancements (even with some awful texture filtering, or mip maps, or both), just some light scanlines and letterboxing so that it's not too blown up on a higher resolution screen.

The game plays great but seeing it in person for the first time, more or less its original look rather than enhanced with emulators, I see a lot of it is smoke and mirrors. Many 2D, very low res elements, things that are now more obviously low poly or with only the side facing the camera modeled as they used to do to maximise the visuals on what players see, a weird, lesser shadow technique, etc. Tons of COOL stuff too of course, it was pioneering and jaw dropping in 1998 (same year the DC launched!) and still looks great. Still, Dreamcast's Daytona USA 2001 isn't as far behind as I thought visually or technically, it's mostly different like a reimagining of the original. Basically Daytona USA 2 tracks are way more fantasy based, more wondrous after the beginner course, yet the cars and damage effects are edgier, grittier (that's Nagoshi I guess), while Daytona USA 2001, like the original, looks more cartoony yet has more grounded courses, more detailed CPU cars, better shadows, a higher resolution. Previously I conceded Daytona USA 2 is the one Model 3 game showing enough of a power gap to not be easy to approximate on Dreamcast to the level of Virtua Fighter 3tb, Fighting Vipers 2 (which to me are great ports with unfairly bad rep because of a few concessions, they're nothing like Rally 2) or the way better ports of Bass Fishing, Virtua Striker 2 and Virtual On 2 but now I'm not sure. It seems very doable, maybe they simply chose to reboot the original just because it's so much more famous and popular or, perhaps more likely, because the game was still brand new in the arcades (again it launched the same year as the Dreamcast in Japan!) so they wanted to maximize its potential there instead on top of the difficulty in porting to a wholly different architecture.

It's still a blistering, unwavering 60fps with high quality 2D and 3D assets all over the place, great textures and virtually no pop in whatsoever except for the cars (which makes sense with up to 40 in track) and that only really visible in replay angles. Contrary to hater noob talk it plays great too:

That's gameplay from the Japanese version which didn't even let you tweak analog sensitivity. Let's not forget Dreamcast also pushes much higher resolution than Model 3 by default, if developers were willing to go lower (as they so often were on the PS2 for example) it'd get even closer/better.​

 

[DeafTourette]

DreamCast was a magical Machine. I miss mine. Some great games with great visuals

 

[Pelao]

That it never received ports of Star Wars Trilogy Arcade and The Lost World: Jurassic Park is a crime against humanity.

 

[Fat Frog]

"DOA2 was the limit"

Nope

 

[nkarafo]

Daytona Dreamcast isn't even close to Daytona 2. The later has way more track detail/geometry. Especially the original Daytona 2 with the dome. But the other tracks with the big, detailed buildings is beyond anything the Dreamcast/Naomi can do.

You also need to compare the "open world city" arcade games to see the gap between the Model 3 and Naomi/DC hardware. On one hand you have stuff like the Harley Davidson and the Ambulance game and on the other hand you have Crazy Taxi. There is no comparison though. An open world city isn't easy to render, it requires a lot of polygons. That's why you see all that pop-in and boxy buildings in Crazy Taxi. But the Model 3 games have much larger draw distance with much larger buildings and objects and more detail all around.

Model 3 was a custom hardware made for pushing graphics, no matter the cost. The Naomi/DC is retail hardware, made to push as much graphics as it can at a low enough cost. The only reason why the Naomi is kinda close is because it's 2 years ahead, but that's not enough time to bridge the gap. If we were talking about the Naomi 2, sure.

 

[Alexios]

Crazy Taxi 2 is way more open than the Ambulance game which is just courses with a couple alternate paths if that and has way less pop in than the original Crazy Taxi (and is way more open than the original Crazy Taxi city too, that was almost designed like an 8 shape course with extra paths). Harley looks much more angular and flat and more often than not less busy than some Crazy Taxi 1/2 areas with a crazy amount of often higher quality assets (all the traffic models with up to 5 characters in your taxi alone, great 3D buildings and textures) but does show some impressive draw in.

Definitely less of a game there overall even if some riding distances seem long and wide open...

Take a 10 minute drive without caring about passengers and the normally insane gameplay speed in Crazy Taxi 2 and the cities show impressive variety and quality with all the weird places you can get to like underwater or on top of the bridge full of pedestrians. Pop in (scenery wise like the dense buildings, clutter objects and pedestrians certainly pop in closer) is more evident in certain spots/angles (as in Harley but I guess it never reaches its best, but it's also more condensed/dense, it's a city and not interstate/highways). The cities actually have less polygons total than the original which is probably part of why the pop in is so much better but you can't see any reduction in visual quality, hence, again, longer development time and more experience yielding better results. Better streaming speeds when not confined to an optical drive probably helps arcade games though.

Daytona USA wise the videos I posted earlier speak for themselves, they're on par when the course/art style is actually comparable (also in Like a Dragon Gaiden's emulation the fence has no pop in but does have some evident in the real arcade machine, maybe that happens in Harley emulation and/or elsewhere too, apparently Supermodel also used to do that in Daytona USA 2 but it was later changed to be more arcade accurate and they're also considering making it an option for people to choose what they prefer, accuracy or quality, dunno if anyone has scrutinized Harley differences).

Maybe Dreamcast couldn't do a final course that merges three others together, I dunno if that takes up much more ram or is streamed or whatever.

Model 3 step 2 (with Harley) came out just a year before Dreamcast and step 2.1 (all Daytona USA 2 versions) the same year. 2 was a substantial upgrade over the previous year's already upgraded step 1.5 with higher CPU clocks, significantly faster 3D engine (with more graphics chips) and more memory. Not exactly different times and most of the big Dreamcast games like Shenmue definitely suffered in comparison to later generation games because they were indeed made with lesser know how and more primitive tools than the average AAA production of the generation, much like VF3.

Of course some companies got things down sooner, Namco got the joint modeling and skin (not really skin but just modeling characters as one mesh, not separate body parts stuck together) as early as Tekken 3 even if Virtua Fighter 3 arcade (which came earlier!) was still a vastly more impressive game given the power of Model 3. DOA2 however is not that far from Tekken Tag Tournament in either polycounts (I think it tops it actually, either in some of the more complex multi level full 3D arenas or in the tag mode where 3 characters can be on screen for combination moves, which doesn't ever happen in TTT) or art style/know how overall, though again I'd say Namco did a better job with their resources (hence Soulcalibur still looking great next to DOA2 despite low polycounts on Dreamcast) and all the 15x15 specular maps for materials but still, let's say that they're roughly on par.

Dreamcast pushes higher resolution with most games being 640x480 when Model 3's native, and default, resolution is 496x384 so that's 161% the pixels or Model 3 pushing just 62% of what Dreamcast does. Seeing it all emulated/enhanced/equalized don't forget such BIG factors.​

 

[Fat Frog]

Daytona Dreamcast isn't even close to Daytona 2. The later has way more track detail/geometry. Especially the original Daytona 2 with the dome. But the other tracks with the big, detailed buildings is beyond anything the Dreamcast/Naomi can do.

You also need to compare the "open world city" arcade games to see the gap between the Model 3 and Naomi/DC hardware. On one hand you have stuff like the Harley Davidson and the Ambulance game and on the other hand you have Crazy Taxi. There is no comparison though. An open world city isn't easy to render, it requires a lot of polygons. That's why you see all that pop-in and boxy buildings in Crazy Taxi. But the Model 3 games have much larger draw distance with much larger buildings and objects and more detail all around.

Model 3 was a custom hardware made for pushing graphics, no matter the cost. The Naomi/DC is retail hardware, made to push as much graphics as it can at a low enough cost. The only reason why the Naomi is kinda close is because it's 2 years ahead, but that's not enough time to bridge the gap. If we were talking about the Naomi 2, sure.

Model 3 is a monster. No shame to be inferior

Nonetheless, recent Dreamcast game hacks prove that the console could have done wonders with more modern tools...

Let's face it, many Dreamcast games were just rushed ports or cross gen games (as if the Genesis died after Sonic 1 #88-91#, Dreamcast #98-2001# : YUP, only 2 years and a half )


PS: I must check the dates but i think Sonic wouldn't even make it if the Genesis died as early as the Dreamcast

The Dreamcast, dat POWERHOUSE

 

[Gamer79]

I picked up one at launch on 9/9/99.
It was a huge leap in graphics at the time.

 

[nkarafo]

Nonetheless, recent Dreamcast game hacks prove that the console could have done wonders with more modern tools...

Well, yeah. All systems can do wonders with more modern tools. Have you seen the modern N64 demos and hacks? There's a new Mario 64 engine that could run the game with 3x times the geometry detail and 60 fps at the same time on real hardware. There's also Portal 64 with all the physics of the original, etc. Same thing applies to older consoles, look at the stuff Watermelon released on the Genesis, for instance.

The Model 3 was very powerful but also older than the DC/Naomi. The standards were lower when it was released in 1996, there wasn't anything close to that power to compete with. The Naomi isn't as powerful but it has a more modern design and supports more modern effects, etc. It's like comparing a powerful/expensive DX8 card with a mid-range DX9 one back in 2003. You will have better performance on the expensive DX8 card but the water effects in the DX9 card will be prettier.

I remember when the Model 3 was released, they would still try to figure out how to make humans realistic. VF3 looks a bit dated for that reason, it only had to beat the likes of VF2 and Tekken 3. But but was the first game with anything resembling cloth physics, for instance. Fighting games have complex animations and rendering stuff like human skin, clothes, etc, is much more difficult for a developer to nail so it's not only about raw power but also about experience and tools. Not so with racing games though, a racing game mostly needs raw power to make the detailed scenery fly. That's why i consider those games a more fair comparison when you compare systems that were released in different times.

 

[Ironman_Bad]

Biggest graphical leap in console history is not debatable if you played 2k sports, ready 2 rumble, soul calibur and sonic at launch

 

[Scotty W]

Dreamcast was a beast. Great memories of playing Sonic Jam on the DC.

 

[Esppiral]

"DOA2 was the limit"

Nope

Oh! I am the author of that mod, still a very early WIP, it is sad that this video is floating around showcasing so early development and yet is getting more views than my actual channel with updates to how it is shaping out, but that's how things are I guess...
Anyway some new screenshots.

 

[Tell’em Keb]

Soul Calibur blew me away at launch. Still the best fighter for me and my group.

 

[Drew1440]

The only ones who fought this were Sony, and the only reason they eventually won (and rumble eventually became built in) was because they threatened that company they'd pull a Creative - Aureal on them (litigate them into bankruptcy).

Not the last time Sony would pull that trick, they did the same with the Bleemcast emulator.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I would had bit the bullet on Dreamcast if they had the full sked of EA Sports. I know their 2k sports were good, but at the time there wasnt even an NHL game until the end of DC and the baseball games were crap. Football and basketball were awesome, but for me those are my 3rd and 4th sports games to get. And I wanted Tekken games, which were awesome on PS1.

I was tempted though.... Soul Calibur, Daytona 2001, Armada, reading up all the articles about Shenmue etc... But I waited for PS2. It wasnt even due to the DVD drive (I had bought a Panasonic DVD home theatre set around the same time I bought PS2).

When I rented a DC, Armada was great. Super hard as it tried to be a twin stick shooter without dual analogs (game would be perfect with dual analog).

 

[Fat Frog]

Oh! I am the author of that mod, still a very early WIP, it is sad that this video is floating around showcasing so early development and yet is getting more views than my actual channel with updates to how it is shaping out, but that's how things are I guess...
Anyway some new screenshots.

Great job. (opera is much more detailed )

Cannot wait for your Soulcalibur (more polygons on characters, ground, new water effects...) and Shenmue 2 hacks (remove horrible 2D horizon city backgrounds, it also seems some modders discover bump mapping on Dreamcast ?)

PS: My only complain on your amazing DOA2 hack would be some colors. It's a little washed out, not as much as the PS2 Version though.

 

[Team Andromeda]

People forget and look over that Dreamcast brought in the era of individual figure moments proper lip movements with moving joints and individual parts to a character's mouth right down to the tongue.
RE: Code Veronica and D2 were such a huge step for character models to what we had seen on consoles before

It's also silly to say a lack of competition too just before the DC launched early. It's like saying the PC Engine wasn't powerful when it launched in 87

 

[SimTourist]

The hardware was indeed powerful, but the problem was that hardware advancements came very quick. PS2 was a noticeable step up. OG Xbox was a massive leap alone.

 

[Doctor Hades]

I remember being blown away by the quality of Dreamcast games at the time as its only rivals were the ageing PlayStation 1, with its texture warping and texture seaming issues, and the N64, with its low framerates and ultra-blurry textures. I had the VGA adapter for my Dreamcast so I was using it with both a 24" widescreen TV at the time and a 17" CRT monitor which I had spare from my PC after upgrading to a new display (may have been my first LCD panel). Soulcalibur was a game that showed how powerful the hardware was as this actually had better visuals than the arcade version. Grandia II, Metropolis Street Racer, Shenmue 1 & 2, Skies of Arcadia, Sonic Adventure 1 & 2, Resident Evil: Code Veronica, SEGA Rally 2, Daytona, Dead or Alive 2 (which had far superior image quality to the later hideous looking PS2 version)... what a console, eh!

Sadly, with the lack of support from EA and other third-parties, the console was very short-lived but it still remains one of my favourite consoles. In many ways, the first Xbox felt like the spiritual Dreamcast 2 with its chunky controller and excellent first-party support from SEGA. Like the Dreamcast, the Xbox is another console that I have very fond memories of, sadly not something I can say about recent Xbox systems...

 

[Lucifers Beard]

For me it was the first time I felt like I had an actual arcade machine at home. Super fast and responsive and had some great games on it. Soul Calibur, Crazy Taxi, Powerstone, House of the Dead etc. Wicked console.

 

[Alexios]

I took the time to finish Shenmue (undub to match Shenmue II) again for the first time since ~1999. It took 9 hours without rushing except a couple spots where my memory was enough to find things like the tattoo parlor without having to ask around for it too much. The main harbor area is quite impressive, it's large and more seamless than most others with a long draw distance (not for npcs of course) and loads of people going about their jobs, forklifts running back and forth, detailed scenery with all the dense warehouses (many of which you can enter but it's pointless, they should have used them more in the Mad Angels investigation instead of make so much of it in the main open area) and other buildings, cranes, ships and undulating waves, the pigeons and seagulls, and you get to experience it both on foot and with the forklift which is fun as ever. I exceeded my crate quota every time on the job (won the races too obviously) and enjoyed the increasingly complex tasks/longer routes until the point you get fired. It's just too bad that the game railroads you as soon as you get the job, I think it would benefit its atmosphere (and length) much more if Ryo only worked every other day or at least got to have weekends and holidays off so that you still stay in town during the day and keep interacting with your friends and kitten with some more interconnected investigating to do there too rather than have everything of note happen in that area from then on.

Anyway, it's certainly got its flaws but it's more impressive than I'd previously give it credit for (I never even include any footage of it when discussing great Dreamcast graphics for the most part, as in the top of this page) due to all the area segmentation making it seem small in scope (all indoors being through loading screens but come on, even Starfield does that, heh) and some lesser visuals (and aliasing) owed to its long and troubled development cycle originating on the Sega Saturn since it still does many things right and displays some complex and cool situations too. It's a true classic.

 

[Alexios]

On to Shenmue II (again for the first time in ages) and areas are bigger and more intricate right off the bat, though much like the harbor above they've scaled back the density of things you can actually interact with and pick up, which seems natural as obviously it would be insane to try and have every little corner as detailed as Ryo's room/house and it would only serve to slow you down if you could interact with every random drawer in an antique store or street stall in hopes of getting (no way would Ryo steal anything anyway) some item. As it is there's enough here to enjoy taking in the unique sights without slowing down too much. The areas are in general nicely segmented to have a lot to explore and see before getting to the next, though there's the occasional smaller area (ie the man mo temple separate from the rest of the district) or more annoying back and forth between loading points (interiors to outside and back in) depending on what you're trying to do/which part of the game you're at. Overall it's smooth and nicely paced. Certainly much less restrictive and more in your face awe inspiring and interesting to explore than most game worlds of its time.

If I have to name flaws, there's no fun job like Shenmue's forklifts (but then again you don't have to spend much time doing that unlike Shenmue where you're forced to work for days during your harbor investigations). Many areas are awesome but go largely unused with no real plot point taking you through them (again similar to the Shenmue harbor having all those warehouses you can enter but there's nothing there and the story doesn't take you through them either). They could have done a few more side quests and optional content to utilize them more but then again with the tools and workflow of the era and everything being voiced rather than text only and what not it'd probably mean game delays, higher budget and so on and so forth. Also, while it's more gamey than Shenmue it's still largely an adventure game and while there's more fighting, story and optional, there are some gameplay aspects that are worse than in the original. Training is less viable, there's no way to train alone in empty parks etc. and you have to find the specific npcs you can spar (and they dodge everything, can't be thrown or whatever so it doesn't feel like a normal fight, but maybe later on there are others I've forgotten at this point, I'm still early in the game, just about to meet Ren), there's no overnight training option to shift focus for example to the throwing moves which are hard to train or later gained moves that you won't be able to master in time to see their true form (also one move I had mastered in the original seems to have lost the third strike it gained) and overall it seems a bit simplified (so many moves are chosen alternatives rather than available at all times with different inputs) and other such things. I suppose it's good when most complaints are wanting more.

On the other hand some things are actually made quite intricate and involving but you don't have much use for them, like the pawnshops with different prices and all that stuff but in the end they still give too little money to care to sell stuff and the only reason you buy the stuff is to see all there is so I guess it's just a way to get some money back for duplicates so you can buy a few more or whatever but yeah, all that effort would have been better spent on other parts of the game as above instead. Similar for other detail things you never realize like the weather affecting mini game physics.

More importantly some story beats are off, like Xiuying taking you in out of the blue (and right after you had just found another place to stay with its own rent mechanics so they basically make some things that could be interesting obsolete as you progress a bit too fast at various points, maybe they should have her let you stay somewhere near/in the temple or something, then you could have a mini game of trying to sneak in the library when you learn of that book or whatever else to keep you more involved in the temple's small area), but the characters are still fun thankfully. Another thing it does is like Shenmue's harbor it railroads you a bit too much at various progression points, I think I would have liked it more if you had to manually get to points of interest at certain times by default rather than have the game automatically take you from sleep to work to task to whatever and back while restricting you in that district. Granted it'd be a chore with strict time limits but then they could have just changed them a bit, for example you could have the morning/noon to explore after waking up and only get to the book chores by 3pm or whatever instead.

Anyway, the games are engaging and fun, I thought I'd never care to revisit them especially after 3 being (imo) such a disaster and with how it doesn't look like we'll ever get the saga completed but still I got immersed and wanted to keep playing despite knowing Ryo's lackluster future.

 

[Alan Wake]

On to Shenmue II (again for the first time in ages) and areas are bigger and more intricate right off the bat, though much like the harbor above they've scaled back the density of things you can actually interact with and pick up, which seems natural as obviously it would be insane to try and have every little corner as detailed as Ryo's room/house and it would only serve to slow you down if you could interact with every random drawer in an antique store or street stall in hopes of getting (no way would Ryo steal anything anyway) some item. As it is there's enough here to enjoy taking in the unique sights without slowing down too much. The areas are in general nicely segmented to have a lot to explore and see before getting to the next, though there's the occasional smaller area (ie the man mo temple separate from the rest of the district) or more annoying back and forth between loading points (interiors to outside and back in) depending on what you're trying to do/which part of the game you're at. Overall it's smooth and nicely paced. Certainly much less restrictive and more in your face awe inspiring and interesting to explore than most game worlds of its time.

If I have to name flaws, there's no fun job like Shenmue's forklifts (but then again you don't have to spend much time doing that unlike Shenmue where you're forced to work for days during your harbor investigations). Many areas are awesome but go largely unused with no real plot point taking you through them (again similar to the Shenmue harbor having all those warehouses you can enter but there's nothing there and the story doesn't take you through them either). They could have done a few more side quests and optional content to utilize them more but then again with the tools and workflow of the era and everything being voiced rather than text only and what not it'd probably mean game delays, higher budget and so on and so forth. Also, while it's more gamey than Shenmue it's still largely an adventure game and while there's more fighting, story and optional, there are some gameplay aspects that are worse than in the original. Training is less viable, there's no way to train alone in empty parks etc. and you have to find the specific npcs you can spar (and they dodge everything, can't be thrown or whatever so it doesn't feel like a normal fight, but maybe later on there are others I've forgotten at this point, I'm still early in the game, just about to meet Ren), there's no overnight training option to shift focus for example to the throwing moves which are hard to train or later gained moves that you won't be able to master in time to see their true form (also one move I had mastered in the original seems to have lost the third strike it gained) and overall it seems a bit simplified (so many moves are chosen alternatives rather than available at all times with different inputs) and other such things. I suppose it's good when most complaints are wanting more.

On the other hand some things are actually made quite intricate and involving but you don't have much use for them, like the pawnshops with different prices and all that stuff but in the end they still give too little money to care to sell stuff and the only reason you buy the stuff is to see all there is so I guess it's just a way to get some money back for duplicates so you can buy a few more or whatever but yeah, all that effort could have been better spend on other parts of the game as above instead. Similar for other detail things you never realize like the weather affecting mini game physics.

More importantly some story beats are off, like Xiuying taking you in out of the blue (and right after you had just found another place to stay with its own rent mechanics so they basically make some things that could be interesting obsolete as you progress a bit too fast at various points, maybe they should have her let you stay somewhere near/in the temple or something, then you could have a mini game of trying to sneak in the library when you learn of that book or whatever else to keep you more involved in the temple's small area, but the characters are still fun thankfully.

Anyway, the games are engaging and fun, I thought I'd never care to revisit them especially after 3 being (imo) such a disaster and with how it doesn't look like we'll ever get the saga completed but still I got immersed and wanted to keep playing despite knowing Ryo's lackluster future.

Shenmue II is such an experience, and obviously it was completely mindvblowing back in 2001. It actually got me hooked on China. Despite traveling there since 2005 it wasn't until 2016 I finally flew to Guilin and rented a bike to see Yangshuo for myself. Naturally while listening to the soundtrack from disc 4. Magic.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Shenmue II is so wildly different than the first game. It’s what I thought the first game would be when I saw the trailers back in like 1998. When I started Shenmue I thought Yokosuka would just be the first disc..and then it was like, the neighborhood and market around Ryo’s house. Then you start at the docks, and I’m like wow they fit all that other stuff in China on the last disc? Then it ended and I was like WTF!

Don’t get me wrong, I love the first game, but all the cool Chinese action movie shit in the trailers was missing. Then they cancelled the US release.

When I finally figured out how to play it by finding it on usenet (I was like 14/15 give me a break), holy shit. The world felt huge and the story pacing was thrown into high gear. And the third disc in particular felt so badass. These giant buildings and seedy underground where you go around whoopin ass to move your way up the tournament…so good. The that last shot of Lan Di flying away…man you had to have been there.

Eventually I got the Xbox port so I could experience the proper shitty dub that I love so much, and then the PC port. I still replay these every couple years…Shenmue is so cozy in the winter, and II drops the slow pacing tedium and feels full on action movie. Damn, if I weren’t totally into BG3 right now I’d go start a new run

 

[Alexios]

Finished Shenmue II. Wow my brain had forgotten how Kowloon and the epilogue areas really are (the latter being much better modeled in all its natural scenery than I remembered, it's actually pretty cool, though it drags a bit and should have been more clearly marked as some post-ending sequence, it really does make you feel like there's more game - other than knowing you've been on the last disc - and then it just ends, lol). Kowloon is not as cool as the previous area with all the different sights and sounds of the varied districts, it's kind of one note in comparison, but still very nicely made with some pretty large chunks to wander in (when you're not rushing from objective to objective which again can lead to some very back to back overdone loading but hey, that can happen in Code Veronica too). The story goes in high gear though and helps overcome that a bit.

Like the Shenmue harbor there's a lot of content that's not used for anything, you can enter all the different rooms in the different buildings/floors so there should have been some more investigative sequences or side content or something as in other parts of the game with NPC back and forth to find out where to limit your search and then find whatever/whoever. Just give it a bit more meat. Add some more fights when you happen upon some random thugs or some shit when you get the wrong room, random mini quests where you rescue folks, Idk, anything other than finding more Lucky Hit stands and gambling dens, lol. Also there aren't enough normal fights still (not the mini game like street performers you can repeat, actual battles are one and done). Those big 3 bosses before the ending streak should have been part of a mini tournament each with having to defeat some other fighters before you get to them or something, some could be the street performers in no bullshit normal fighting and let you repeat the tournament again for money or something but maybe increase the difficulty like the street performers so you can't abuse it too much (not that money is good for much anyway after you buy all move scrolls which are way too cheap and again you don't have opportunities to train new moves, these fights if set up a little differently as I describe here could have offered that opportunity and made the game's economy a bit more involving and worthwhile too). Or I guess since you'd be the champion after winning and the dialogue reflects that you could go to the tournament areas and have random challengers come fight you maybe on more friendly terms after their last loss and your graceful acts like not letting that chick fall off and die etc.

Anyway, it's a very impressive game visually despite the cruder aspects of some modeling here and there, the interior locations in particular are as good as anything on Dreamcast and once again its main visual weakness is how randomly NPCs fade in (oh and some foliage models/sprites, they had not figured out how to make those look nice, but some are decent). This must be an engine quirk/flaw since some can show up very far and others only when you're right on top of them and it doesn't seem to have much of anything to do with the density or performance of the given area either.

It was fun start to finish for sure and again the main complaint is just that there's no more of it (but there couldn't have been more given work flow of the era, the game's cost up to that point given it was made for both Saturn and then remade from scratch for the Dreamcast, etc.).

Also even without the shitty dub the translation is just off some times, especially when you have to press A to continue a conversation and Ryo at that point might repeat a person's name/topic 10x in a way that doesn't at all feel natural, a simple "go on" would have been better at that point, lol.

Overall I'm glad I replayed the saga and I should have done so earlier and praised it more in such threads where I've almost avoided posting footage of it, it's not overrated at all, technically or as a game. It's hard to show off I guess, I've been looking for videos that just tour various areas to no avail.

I did miss much optional stuff, probably because I was playing well enough to finish tasks the first time without retrying the next day etc., never got a photo with Joy or Xiuying's aide whatever her name is etc. and never actually played the arcade games this time. But I don't think I'll go back for it.

 

[Alexios]

I knew folks had been restoring online modes and stuff accessible via real Dreamcast browsers/games (posted some multiplayer footage earlier) but I read they also restored the Crazy Taxi 2 "Another Day" DLC, I investigated it a bit and wow, there's quite a bit of DLC for various games. I knew there were PSO missions and other random crap like VMU mini games that probably suck but there's also good stuff like a ton of Samba de Amigo tracks, several courses for 4x4 Evolution (crappy game & port but still), new cars for Tokyo Xtreme Racer 2, a new ship and modes of play for Giga Wing, a bonus character for Dynamite Cop and all kinds of other cool stuff. Some of it may only apply on certain game versions (so it was either included by default or disabled altogether in other regions I guess) but yeah, still cool. There are 3 new Virtual-On: Oratorio Tangram playable virtuaroids too!

DLC : Dreamcast Live

The largest archive of Sega Dreamcast DLC on the internet!

dreamcastlive.net

There's useless stuff too (I don't think many want more MSR challenges & trials given how much it repeats, I played it more recently then resorted to skimming a longplay and wow is it drab & now way down my list of great Dreamcast racers, I'd rather have too little content over this) but still, neat.

 

[Papa_Wisdom]

I knew folks had been restoring online modes and stuff accessible via real Dreamcast browsers/games (posted some multiplayer footage earlier) but I read they also restored the Crazy Taxi 2 "Another Day" DLC, I investigated it a bit and wow, there's quite a bit of DLC for various games. I knew there were PSO missions and other random crap like VMU mini games that probably suck but there's also good stuff like a ton of Samba de Amigo tracks, several courses for 4x4 Evolution (crappy game & port but still), new cars for Tokyo Xtreme Racer 2, a new ship and modes of play for Giga Wing, a bonus character for Dynamite Cop and all kinds of other cool stuff. Some of it may only apply on certain game versions (so it was either included by default or disabled altogether in other regions I guess) but yeah, still cool. There are 3 new Virtual-On: Oratorio Tangram playable virtuaroids too!

DLC : Dreamcast Live

The largest archive of Sega Dreamcast DLC on the internet!

dreamcastlive.net

There's useless stuff too (I don't think many want more MSR challenges & trials given how much it repeats, I played it more recently then resorted to skimming a longplay and wow is it drab & now way down my list of great Dreamcast racers, I'd rather have too little content over this) but still, neat.

This is where we all hangout

Dreamcast-Talk.com - Forums

www.dreamcast-talk.com

Just got the karaoke unit up and working again!

 

[Last Hearth]

Soul Calibre on the Dreamcast might still be the best fighter game of all time.

 

[Sojiro]

Soul Calibre on the Dreamcast might still be the best fighter game of all time.

If we're talking 3D fighters, I would have a hard time arguing that point. It's even more crazy that it was a launch title for the system, and while I got to experience it a good bit later (I didn't grab a DC until it was discontinued for the cheap off eBay around 02), I can only imagine just how mind-blowing that game was when getting your fresh new dreamcast back in 99.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Shenmue II is so wildly different than the first game. It’s what I thought the first game would be when I saw the trailers back in like 1998. When I started Shenmue I thought Yokosuka would just be the first disc..and then it was like, the neighborhood and market around Ryo’s house. Then you start at the docks, and I’m like wow they fit all that other stuff in China on the last disc? Then it ended and I was like WTF!

Don’t get me wrong, I love the first game, but all the cool Chinese action movie shit in the trailers was missing. Then they cancelled the US release.

When I finally figured out how to play it by finding it on usenet (I was like 14/15 give me a break), holy shit. The world felt huge and the story pacing was thrown into high gear. And the third disc in particular felt so badass. These giant buildings and seedy underground where you go around whoopin ass to move your way up the tournament…so good. The that last shot of Lan Di flying away…man you had to have been there.

Eventually I got the Xbox port so I could experience the proper shitty dub that I love so much, and then the PC port. I still replay these every couple years…Shenmue is so cozy in the winter, and II drops the slow pacing tedium and feels full on action movie. Damn, if I weren’t totally into BG3 right now I’d go start a new run

Shenmue 2 is a much better game, but Shenmue 1 is a better life simulator. Shenmue 1 is slow paced, but its atmosphere is perfect. Shenmue 2 I think has enough action for anyone and no one can fault the pacing.

For me the games got even better over the years. I liked them when they came out, but now I rate them among the best games I have ever played. The remaster was legit my GOTY. I was completely immersed and I platted both of them back to back. Perhaps some of the QTE I could do without.

3 doesn't exist. People will use this game as an example that Shenmue was always bad. Which isn't true, 3 is a piece of shit compared to 1 and 2 which both are over 20 years old.

 

[Fat Frog]

Look at this beauty...
Imagine the same team with higher budget and modern tools.(the real dreamcast version has not such resolution but the aesthetic is still awesome...the cancelled demo is on youtube as well with the usual bad compression)

 

[Crayon]

I'm looking for a place where sailors hang out.

 

[The Pleasure]

I know a place where Sailors hang out

 

[danklord]

it was def behind the cube and xbox, not terribly behind the ps2

either way, i regret nothing

The hype in this trailer is through the roof. I can see why people still play it on emulator to this day.