-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
We Actually Do Need Pro Consoles Again
- Thread starter Celcius
- Start date
RCU005
Member
Final Fantasy has to have started development as a PS4 title. (I think in fact it was).
There’s still haven’t been any game being developed from the ground up for PS5 (or Series X).
I hate that people think that 60fps 4K is everything in gaming. It is not! You are the minority. The 98% rest of us don’t need a pro console.
Also, just look around! Console prices went up (a first ever), stock is barely recovering, games are still cross-gen three years in! Why would there be a PRO console?
This is the worst generation ever because it hasn’t had any evolution. It’s like it’s stuck in its first year (blame covid, development times and live service game fixation for that).
There’s still haven’t been any game being developed from the ground up for PS5 (or Series X).
I hate that people think that 60fps 4K is everything in gaming. It is not! You are the minority. The 98% rest of us don’t need a pro console.
Also, just look around! Console prices went up (a first ever), stock is barely recovering, games are still cross-gen three years in! Why would there be a PRO console?
This is the worst generation ever because it hasn’t had any evolution. It’s like it’s stuck in its first year (blame covid, development times and live service game fixation for that).
odhiex
Member
Yes, but do we need new NVIDIA/AMD GPUs release every 1 or 2 years?Just buy a PC mate if high framrate and resolution are important to you
Rykan
Member
Most people on console do care about 60 FPS. Every game comes with a performance mode now. The most played games on both current gen consoles. Why do you think it was Call of Duty specifically that became popular during the Xbox 360 days?
This whole narrative that “Only enthusiasts care about good performance” is completely baseless and unfounded.
PC is a completely different platform and a completely different audience. Furthermore, plenty of games aren't released on PC and vice versa.
kvltus lvlzvs
Member
Well, with 2 consoles per generation at 500-600 a pop, I guess the "but PC is so expensive" argument goes out the window
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
As if that gonna change anything. You guys still whine blah blah blah blah the graphics are not good enough wish Playstation 6 gets released then more blah blah blah blah blah wishing P6pro gets released……same fucking shit.
Man just get PC if you guys are this damn obsess with high tech graphics.
Man just get PC if you guys are this damn obsess with high tech graphics.
Last edited:
93xfan
Banned
yep.
Why should Sony and MS do a pro model? So all of you can complain again 2 years from now? Not worth the trouble trying to appease such a small group of people that will never be satisfied.
Slim models in the other hand benefit everyone.
Last edited:
93xfan
Banned
Some of them will, and will spend 80% of their time between getting the settings just right and anticipating the next graphics card.
Gamers, huh?
ReBurn
Gold Member
Devs aren't going to push these machines, especially third party devs. This will always be the performance or visual fidelity generation. It will be rare to get both. At least games load fast.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
devs barely can make games as is bro.
th4tguy
Member
360-xbone was 2005-2014. 9 years No refresh
PS3-ps4 was 2006-2014. 8 years No refresh
We will get 8 years because of Covid. We don’t HAVE to have refreshes mid gen. There isn’t a new must have feature that the system need to take advantage of or lose out on sales like when 4k tvs were coming out.
Edit: goofed on the dates. Both xbone and ps4 came out in 2013
Last edited:
Azurro
Banned
Yes, we absolutely need PS5 Pro and Xbox Series SX consoles. I know highly knowledgeable people like
P
Panajev2001a
disagrees with this position, but seeing where more demanding games are landing, we are at a point where 60 FPS and >1440p resolution games that ALSO look as nice as Final Fantasy XVI are not going to happen. Hell, we got our first clue with the Matrix demo. No real game logic and still couldn't even keep up a consistent 30 FPS at 1440p.
If we want next gen visuals at 60 FPS, we need those updated consoles. No amount of platform specific optimisation is going to give us this.
If we want next gen visuals at 60 FPS, we need those updated consoles. No amount of platform specific optimisation is going to give us this.
Last edited:
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
inappropriate title. They don't play games they play visuals
Umbasaborne
Banned
Pro consoles aren’t the answer. Consoles will always be underpowered. This is a case of the cross gen period last way longer giving folks unrealistic expectations. And gpu tech evolving so rapidly due to the advent of rtx that consoles cannot keep up with it. Mark my words, the ps5 and series x were powerful machines at the time of their launch in 2020. But 3 years have passed, and gpu tech has evolved exponentially in that time. The issue is that consoles use amd hardware. Fsr is vastly, VASTLY inferior to dlss. I wont be surprised if the next switch has cleaner look upscaling than the ps5 and series, due to it possibly using dlss
Last edited:
Umbasaborne
Banned
No, because your 4090 will still be more powerful than a ps5 pro in 2 yearsYes, but do we need new NVIDIA/AMD GPUs release every 1 or 2 years?
009EspadaSageJay
Member
CP2077 Phantom liberty and FF16 can not be compared one is a massive open world game with tons of moving parts at all time plus multiple NPCS, A.i cars, physics weapons and other wise ect on screen and moving at the same time And FF16 is a stage select character action game
Edgelord79
Gold Member
Not if they are going to keep pushing 30 fps for diminishing returns. If they commit to 60 fps, I’m down for a pro console though.
TheCrowsReaper
Member
Yes
Yes we do.
FF16, which I'm enjoying, looks like dog shit. If you told me it was a PS4 game, I'd understand and think it looks nice. Built for PS5? I'd slap you for such verbiage.
Either these console are freakin' weak, or devs are lazy goofs. There is probably a mid-point there. Enough is enough. It's time to prove whey these things are "current" and cost what they cost. I whole heartedly believe PS5 and Series X are more capable than we've seen; we'll see.
Yes we do.
FF16, which I'm enjoying, looks like dog shit. If you told me it was a PS4 game, I'd understand and think it looks nice. Built for PS5? I'd slap you for such verbiage.
Either these console are freakin' weak, or devs are lazy goofs. There is probably a mid-point there. Enough is enough. It's time to prove whey these things are "current" and cost what they cost. I whole heartedly believe PS5 and Series X are more capable than we've seen; we'll see.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Unless I missed something, no. Shadows exhibit evidence of ray tracing but John from DF isn't sure. Lighting most definitely is baked using rasterization and not ray tracing. In fact, I don't think a single console game uses ray traced lighting besides Metro Exodus. It would absolutely tank their performance. They generally use ray traced shadows, AO, or reflections.
Last edited:
semiconscious
Member
what hasn't changed is my wallet, which's the main thing. so, no, i can't afford to need a pro console...
daveonezero
Banned
The way I see it this trend in the industry is unsustainable. Gameplay is taking a backseat to pretty visuals and the difference between say BOTW and Horizen and how the world reacts is just going to get larger.
The big new games are lifeless.
The big new games are lifeless.
odhiex
Member
Both PS4 and Xbox one were released in 2013, cmiiw.
Look, last time I insisted not buying PS4 Pro and stick with the normal PS4, I was fine with performance and it was my favorite PlayStation so far. I would likely do the same with my current PS5. Perhaps, I would build a PC gaming instead, cause I'm itching to go back someday.
However, I would still expect these console upgrades happen rather than not, like this guy (I'm sure not the only one)
Mid-Gen PS5 And Xbox Series X|S Upgrades Are "Likely" Says Take-Two Boss
Could the PS5 Pro and Xbox Series XL be coming soon?
www.gamespot.com
Efren is G.O.A.T.
Member
My purely self centered answer: No midgen refresh, drop the fucking graphics mode and have your only mode be at 60fps and optimize the shit out of it.
More realistic answer: I don't really know. I feel like this gen is a scam. Yes the loading times got better, yes we get ray tracing sometimes but we're damn far from the 4K60Fps that marketing tried to make us believe. We have had absolutely fantastic games this gen already but if I'm honest, they feel like last gen games slightly enhanced.
We are probably never going to get the massive jumps that we did before like the NES to SNES or the PS1 to PS2 ever again but what I'd actually prefer is that instead of rushing to get midgen refreshes or even the PS6/Xbox Series Z is that devs find a way to develop better processes to produce games with the same quality at a faster rate for a fraction of the cost.
I'm probably in the minority here but I think we've reached a point where games look great and I'd much rather get 2-3 SEQUELS from my favourite franchises per generation than one ENTRY per generation. You guys remember when we got FF7-8-9, RE1-2-3 on the PS1 and Splinter Cell 1-2-3-4 on OG Xbox?!? ...and by the time FF10 and RE4 came out on the following gen we fell off our chairs?! I miss that feeling more than seeing the devs forced to implement raytracing, when it's clearly not ready because of the performance hit, because the higher ups forced it on them because it's the new buzzword.
Sorry for my post lacking conciseness.
More realistic answer: I don't really know. I feel like this gen is a scam. Yes the loading times got better, yes we get ray tracing sometimes but we're damn far from the 4K60Fps that marketing tried to make us believe. We have had absolutely fantastic games this gen already but if I'm honest, they feel like last gen games slightly enhanced.
We are probably never going to get the massive jumps that we did before like the NES to SNES or the PS1 to PS2 ever again but what I'd actually prefer is that instead of rushing to get midgen refreshes or even the PS6/Xbox Series Z is that devs find a way to develop better processes to produce games with the same quality at a faster rate for a fraction of the cost.
I'm probably in the minority here but I think we've reached a point where games look great and I'd much rather get 2-3 SEQUELS from my favourite franchises per generation than one ENTRY per generation. You guys remember when we got FF7-8-9, RE1-2-3 on the PS1 and Splinter Cell 1-2-3-4 on OG Xbox?!? ...and by the time FF10 and RE4 came out on the following gen we fell off our chairs?! I miss that feeling more than seeing the devs forced to implement raytracing, when it's clearly not ready because of the performance hit, because the higher ups forced it on them because it's the new buzzword.
Sorry for my post lacking conciseness.
Zuzu
Member
Yes, I agree. We do need them if we want to sustain decent performance modes and to keep up to a certain extent with the graphical progress and capabilities of PC GPUs.
If someone is happy with 30fps being the standard then they will probably be content with these consoles for a few more years. I'm not content with that however.
If someone is happy with 30fps being the standard then they will probably be content with these consoles for a few more years. I'm not content with that however.
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
One argument for pro consoles is that it pushes devs to have more graphics options that will benefit games in the long run. So years down the line, playing them in BC modes will have real benefits. Oftentimes console games have very limited graphics options that will require patches to unlock fps and such... games designed for "pro" systems usually have these baked in.
Last edited:
StereoVsn
Gold Member
It would be good to have the option certainly. It's been demonstrated by now that PS5/XSX just don't have the power to run recent titles at decent performance and resolution even without RT.
That said, as with previous gen, it will be a niche thing just like high end PCs are. So devs will still optimize for regular machines. Well, no idea how XSS will keep performing.
That said, as with previous gen, it will be a niche thing just like high end PCs are. So devs will still optimize for regular machines. Well, no idea how XSS will keep performing.
Knightime_X
Member
No.
"Pro" consoles should come in the form of backwards compatibility with next gen consoles.
Or just buy the PC version.
Some games like ff15 and sekiro were STILL 30fps with pro consoles so what was even the point?
"Pro" consoles should come in the form of backwards compatibility with next gen consoles.
Or just buy the PC version.
Some games like ff15 and sekiro were STILL 30fps with pro consoles so what was even the point?
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
I think XVI smokes Remake in terms of visuals, art direction and pure fidelity. It also is a corridor experience, draw distance is never a problem...that's the reason it holds res/fps better. Love them both, but yeah, it runs fine IMO (XVI that is).
ResilientBanana
Member
No. If so, release a PC version
01011001
Banned
???
and for the record, Sekiro could have run way better than that, but From Software just couldn't help themselves and pushed for 1800p on both consoles... well Checkerboard 1800p on PS4 Pro of course.
if they actually added a proper performance mode with a 1440p or 1080p mode it would have run perfectly fine. that game is super light on hardware. I maxed it out at 1440p on my old PC back then. perfectly locked 60fps the entire game.
but the One X did have 120hz VRR support, so on a 120hz TV with Freesync back then, it would have been a big improvement in fluidity over the base consoles
Last edited:
It's an optimization issue. It used to be the devs sucked every ounce of power from consoles and optimizing their code so that it works.
Now it kinda seems like devs are just brute forcing the power to make their games run, but they are clearly not optimized.
Because Nintendo is so limited with what Switch can do, they are really optimizing their code and it shows. So if anything, maybe PlayStation should release a PS5 LOW to make devs actually do the work.
Now it kinda seems like devs are just brute forcing the power to make their games run, but they are clearly not optimized.
Because Nintendo is so limited with what Switch can do, they are really optimizing their code and it shows. So if anything, maybe PlayStation should release a PS5 LOW to make devs actually do the work.
Omnipunctual Godot
Gold Member
Not if PS5 is targeted as the main platform. PS5 would be relegated to sub-60FPS, Sub 4K, while PS5 Pro would play the same games at increased resolution and/or frame rate. I have a PS4 Pro, it was a great fidelity upgrade over my PS4. I want the same thing with a PS5 Pro.
NickFire
Member
I pretty much agree except I think id rather see pro modes. Unless we know things change on development might as well benefit from extra power while they still target mass market base models.
West Texas CEO
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief and Nosiest Dildo Archeologist
The only thing this thread is proving is that developers are softer than marshmallows.
*this post was brought to you by auto-correct AI*
*this post was brought to you by auto-correct AI*
diffusionx
Gold Member
How did we end up in this topsy turvy world where people with a $1600 GPU are happy playing games with fake pixels AND fake frames, while people with $500 consoles are whining because Digital Foundry is telling them their games are not running at native resolution with full ray tracing?
Syphon Filter
Member
Not really, by then the next systems will release soon enough. also its always gonna not be enough since they have to have a certain price and sacrifice.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Nah
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Seriously though, you are right op...these consoles were clearly half steps and the pro versions will be the true next gen version of this gen...if that makes sense...
We just got duped by marketing speak.
To the manufacturers. Just show me a good step up and I'm there day one.
Make the pros like 699-799 if you want. Make it for the true performance fans.
Last edited:
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
What happened? I’ve been told about superior architecture, magical SSD powers, secret sauce and eating monsters for breakfast?
Knightime_X
Member
Must've been updated some.
Nevertheless, I don't see it worth paying an extra 400-600 for 10 extra fps.
But this is!
Last edited:
MarkMe2525
Gold Member
I get it, but I thought CyberPunk looked great even at the lower resolutions. There is a market for Pro consoles for sure, but I think we are better off without them. A base PS4 player was in a good spot even after the Pro came out, developers made sure the games ran great on PS4 before adding embellishments for the Pro. It felt like a different story on the Xbox platform last gen.
With developers having an easier time getting their games running on the X1X, it felt like they gave up trying to bring a great version of their game to the base console. I would hate for base console players to have a similar experience this go around. If the Pro consoles picked up a significant enough portion of the market share, devs will be less inclined to make the Series X&S, and PS5 versions sing.
With developers having an easier time getting their games running on the X1X, it felt like they gave up trying to bring a great version of their game to the base console. I would hate for base console players to have a similar experience this go around. If the Pro consoles picked up a significant enough portion of the market share, devs will be less inclined to make the Series X&S, and PS5 versions sing.
Majormaxxx
Member
No. Just wait 3 years and get ps6.
Pro and one x came out because of 4k tvs.
No reason for 5 pro and x pro
Pro and one x came out because of 4k tvs.
No reason for 5 pro and x pro
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
I'm with you OP - it seems to be against the grain in here....but I think we do too (and i'd be there minute 1).
Since these consoles were made, there's been some pretty massive jumps in PC hardware and I think a Pro would put the systems on at least high end 3series parity, maybe mid 4series - good enough at least for (what I think is essential anyways) 60fps in games you want it in.
Since these consoles were made, there's been some pretty massive jumps in PC hardware and I think a Pro would put the systems on at least high end 3series parity, maybe mid 4series - good enough at least for (what I think is essential anyways) 60fps in games you want it in.