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[Jokergrin]

Indeed. I kept saying low carb instead of low refined carbs because I was getting lazy.

Even the fruits/veggies that are slightly fattening have such a lower insulin response than refined carbs that for people with body fat percentages greater than 15%, the new insulin setpoint is lower. So whereas a banana may be fattening to someone with 6% body fat, it is a weight loss food to someone with 30% body fat.

What is a list of carbs that are not refined carbs?

Are we talking like whole wheat bread?

 

[Coins]

I dont know if anyone blogs about their weightloss, Im kinda hoping I dont get into trouble for posting this here.

Im starting my weight loss quest and have decided to keep a blog about it.

It can be found here.

Today is the last day of my usual eating habits. Im excited and nervous at the same time. Ive never put forth a serious effort.

 

[HamPster PamPster]

Thanks for the motivation gaf, some amazing information and stories in this thread

Anyway I've finally decided to do something about my weight (5'8 and 195). I've been around 180-185 for the last several years and while I always knew it was unhealthy I never cared too much but recently some things changed.

~ I'm 195, just weighed myself at work. Last time a checked a month and half or so ago I was 185. I need to do something before I hit 200, kinda a shock to see I'm the heaviest I have ever been

~ I'm a yellow belt damn it! Two months ago I started taekwondoe with my daughter and this past weekend we got our yellow belts together. At first it was just something she wanted to do and maybe I'll get in better shape but now I'm super into it. I always wanted to be a black belt as a kid (who didn't?) but never took classes (no wonder my parents said no, its freaking expensive!). Now I totally picture myself as some ninja master. Several years my now my daughter and I will be the ultimate ass kicking machines! Then she'll become a teenager and hate me Of course I need to loose some weight if I actually want to get better at it

~ Felt a fat fold Last week while streching at taekwondoe while laying on my side I felt my side fat fold onto its self. Thats when I knew whatever activity I was doing wasn't offsetting my poor diet

Any way wish me luck!


Any advice for cooking for a family while trying to loose weight? (wife and daughter are vegetarians) They love pasta, miso soup, mac and cheese, and other carb foods which I'm seeing is a big no-no in this thread. I'd rather not cook and clean up two meals (one for me and one for them). I'm going to switch to whole grain pasta and hope that helps. Any other tips? How does tofu rank as a weight loss food? They love it but I never cared for it. If its good I'll try to make more dishes with it in it. I'll be changing my lunch and snacking for the better for sure. Hopefully soon I'll be a proud member of weight loss gaf

 

[teh_pwn]

What is a list of carbs that are not refined carbs?

Are we talking like whole wheat bread?

Don't be fooled by food marketing.

Pretty much anything carb that isn't in it's whole natural form is refined.

Calling bread whole because you sprinkle seeds on it is like putting bits of meat into rice and calling it whole meat.


It doesn't mean food has to suck. It means you have to cook, but if anything food is way better. For instance, I'm stir frying this right now:

Coconut oil
Pepperoni
Red onion
Spinach
Sun dried tomatoes
Alfredo
Chicken breasts

Damn delicious. Starchy carbs, like rice and noodles, just waters down flavor.

For natural foods, and some packaged foods, google "glycemic index". There's probably a site with a database. Insulin mostly correlates to glycemic index I think.

 

[neojubei]

Ignore the goofy facial expressions in both pics. Before on left, After on right.

Basically followed the simple "burn more calories than you eat" method for weight loss. I exercised daily and cut out all fast foods and soda. On the rare occasion that I had to eat out, id stick with salads (dressing on the side) or grilled chicken sandwiches with no sauce. The weight just kinda poured off.

Overall, I went from 313 lbs to 175 lbs. Im 5'7''. I still have a small pouch on my stomach that Im currently working on but its hardly noticeable in pics and with my shirt on. I think some of it might be loose skin but I want to really drop my bf% to be sure.

Amazing. 313 to under 200 WOW, you are my inspiration.

 

[teh_pwn]

Thanks for the motivation gaf, some amazing information and stories in this thread

Anyway I've finally decided to do something about my weight (5'8 and 195). I've been around 180-185 for the last several years and while I always knew it was unhealthy I never cared too much but recently some things changed.

~ I'm 195, just weighed myself at work. Last time a checked a month and half or so ago I was 185. I need to do something before I hit 200, kinda a shock to see I'm the heaviest I have ever been

~ I'm a yellow belt damn it! Two months ago I started taekwondoe with my daughter and this past weekend we got our yellow belts together. At first it was just something she wanted to do and maybe I'll get in better shape but now I'm super into it. I always wanted to be a black belt as a kid (who didn't?) but never took classes (no wonder my parents said no, its freaking expensive!). Now I totally picture myself as some ninja master. Several years my now my daughter and I will be the ultimate ass kicking machines! Then she'll become a teenager and hate me Of course I need to loose some weight if I actually want to get better at it

~ Felt a fat fold Last week while streching at taekwondoe while laying on my side I felt my side fat fold onto its self. Thats when I knew whatever activity I was doing wasn't offsetting my poor diet

Any way wish me luck!


Any advice for cooking for a family while trying to loose weight? (wife and daughter are vegetarians) They love pasta, miso soup, mac and cheese, and other carb foods which I'm seeing is a big no-no in this thread. I'd rather not cook and clean up two meals (one for me and one for them). I'm going to switch to whole grain pasta and hope that helps. Any other tips? How does tofu rank as a weight loss food? They love it but I never cared for it. If its good I'll try to make more dishes with it in it. I'll be changing my lunch and snacking for the better for sure. Hopefully soon I'll be a proud member of weight loss gaf

For the pasta, remove all of the noodles and add more vegetables and protein replacement. Add lots of coconut oil so you don't starve and keep the body's insulin low.

For stacks I have lots of mixed nuts, 89% coco chocolate (I think even that is too much sugar, so I may ditch it), cheese. As far as non-meat goes anyway.

Taubes talked about the Japanese diet being one of the exceptions of high carb diets. Look into what rural Japan traditionally ate/eats. I think highly populated areas are fattening up on Americanized food.

 

[Sallokin]

This thread is so motivating. I started my program in December at 255/260 and I'm down to about 220/225 and it's mostly involved just changing how I eat. I started biking over the last week and I really love it. I've had a hard time getting motivated and this thread is such a shot in the arm. I can't wait to have my own great before and after shots.

I want to lose another 25 pounds and get below 200 by July so that I can go into my next cardiologist appointment with a nice big smile. It may not happen, but even if I'm close I'll be happy. I think my eventual goal is 185ish which is what I weighed when I played soccer in high school. I don't care when I get there, so long as I get there.

 

[BronzeWolf]

I am super happy with this thread.

Losing weight in a healthy and sustainable way is THE most important decision on this life! For ourselves and for our loved ones

 

[borghe]

tagging this thread for later "official" post (with pics). Was at 205 last year. Next monday I should be at 165 and looking at a final weight of 155 by around memorial day. Rough description before that official post is just a lot of time at the gym and being realistic about eating. On a "usually" normal low fat, normal carbs, high protein diet (around 20/40/40 calorie percentages). Eat fairly normal low fat foods, decent veggies and whole grains, and supplement meat with ON 100% Gold Standard Whey Protein. FYI, Strawberry is delicious and White Chocolate is fucking vile. Gym is a cardio 4 or 5 times a week in the morning. Currently at a pace of 8:40 and at least 40 minutes and some days up to 90 minutes time permitting. Then weight training 4 afternoons a week (mon/shldrs/tris, tue/back, thur/chest/bis, fri/legs, abs on all weight lifting days)

 

[williamsan]

Very inspirational thread! It's gotten me off my lazy bum, and now I'm ready to start doing instead of thinking.

I'm 5'8, but I weigh about 185. This fluctuates wildly though (due to thyroid problems). My goal isn't just weight loss, I want to exchange the fat for muscle.
For the past few days I've traded greasy and carb-laden foods for produce and fruit, soda for water, no sweets, etc.

I'm already set on the cardio, though. I play ultimate frisbee in a class I'm taking, and it involves a lot of running.

Will throw in free weight training and more intensive cardio when I start losing weight.

 

[Halcyon]

My weight fluctuates quite a bit through the year. I usually tend to pull myself together in the spring/summer then just eat my way through thanksgiving and the winter. It's bothersome because I feel like i'm a pretty good lookin guy when I'm thinner and just sort of a big oaf when I gain the weight.

Here I am at around 270(i'm on the left) last year

Here I am around 230 and tan on my honeymoon

 

[teh_pwn]

Very inspirational thread! It's gotten me off my lazy bum, and now I'm ready to start doing instead of thinking.

I'm 5'8, but I weigh about 185. This fluctuates wildly though (due to thyroid problems). My goal isn't just weight loss, I want to exchange the fat for muscle.

It's not about willpower, it's about insulin. (you don't tell a child that's has growth hormone deficiency to try harder).

Yesterday, I was able to comfortably go down a notch on my belt. A notch that I haven't used since 2008. I've lost about a half of an inch on my waist in the last 2 weeks, and I haven't lifted a finger. I'm not hungry, in fact I swear I'm thinking clearer than ever.

Tried for a year without changing my diet, sweating on an elliptical trainer, gaining muscle but not fat on p90x. Busting my ass, but not fat loss.

Remove the refined carbs and your body will start losing fat. If you're looking to gain muscle and lose fat, first remove the refined carbs. If you're insulin resistant, as most fat people are to some extent, your muscle cells aren't given the ideal amount of energy they need because insulin is literally stealing it and locking it in fat tissue.


And I used to have my weight fluctuate a lot. Sometimes my stomach would bloat up like a balloon by evening or after dinner. That doesn't happen anymore, and the reason has to do with how insulin inhibits the kidneys from excreting salt into urine. I'm eating probably 1.5x my daily sodium, but I don't retain water like that anymore.

 

[Furio53]

It's not about willpower, it's about insulin. (you don't tell a child that's has growth hormone deficiency to try harder).

Yesterday, I was able to comfortably go down a notch on my belt. A notch that I haven't used since 2008. I've lost about a half of an inch on my waist in the last 2 weeks, and I haven't lifted a finger. I'm not hungry, in fact I swear I'm thinking clearer than ever.

Tried for a year without changing my diet, sweating on an elliptical trainer, gaining muscle but not fat on p90x. Busting my ass, but not fat loss.

Remove the refined carbs and your body will start losing fat. If you're looking to gain muscle and lose fat, first remove the refined carbs. If you're insulin resistant, as most fat people are to some extent, your muscle cells aren't given the ideal amount of energy they need because insulin is literally stealing it and locking it in fat tissue.


And I used to have my weight fluctuate a lot. Sometimes my stomach would bloat up like a balloon by evening or after dinner. That doesn't happen anymore, and the reason has to do with how insulin inhibits the kidneys from excreting salt into urine. I'm eating probably 1.5x my daily sodium, but I don't retain water like that anymore.

I've been reading your posts and the whole Good Calorie Bad Calorie thing is really fascinating. But how do we know what refined carbs are exactly, and what foods are ok to eat? thats where Im confused.

 

[LaneDS]

Here I am at around 270(i'm on the left) last year

I laughed.

Also, good job, keep at it!

 

[teh_pwn]

I've been reading your posts and the whole Good Calorie Bad Calorie thing is really fascinating. But how do we know what refined carbs are exactly, and what foods are ok to eat? thats where Im confused.

I'm still working on that myself. Something I'm going to think about this weekend. But it seems that Paleo and Atkins are closest, but I need to do some more reading. If you're vegetarian, Japanese diet.

The food choices aren't that restrictive when you realize that heart disease isn't caused by dietary fats. At least not saturated. Coconut oil, butter, olive oil, animal fat good, various vegetable oils that didn't exist before 100 years ago bad (including transfats).

My current diet:

Breakfast:
Sausage & Eggs

Lunch:
I'm still working on this one, but so far I think the best ironically is work cafeteria food. I get a chicken sandwich with avacado, bacon, dressing, lettuce, and tomato Edit: Without the bread.

Dinner:
1. Stir fry of coconut oil, chicken breasts, sun dried tomatoes, red onions, spinach, pepperoni.

2. Spring mix salad, chicken breasts, avacado, tomatoes, (maybe bacon soon), full fat Caesar Salad dressing (will be replacing with another dressing soon that doesn't have soybean oil in it).

3. Stir fry of coconut oil, full fat beef, white onions, seasoning (been using taco seasoning, need to change), and peppers.

Snacks:
Peanuts (make sure it isn't the kind with "corn syrup solids" mixed in)
Cashews
Pistachios
~90% chocolate (about 3 grams of sugar per serving so that it isn't bitter)
Blocks of cheese. 1 gram of carbs, about 50/50 with fat and protein.



But honestly, even that limited diet satisfies hunger 100%. It may seem bland, but it's both tasty and I'm literally never hungry.

 

[teh_pwn]

Seems that some studies are looking in the right direction:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8615537.stm

Women who eat diets heavy in certain carbohydrates may be at greater risk of coronary heart disease, according to researchers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8478629.stm

Twice as many people on the low-carb diet lowered their blood pressure compared to those taking the drug, orlistat.

The drug is a dietary fat blocker (why the hell you would ever want to block an essential nutrient over a completely useless one like sugar is beyond me).



But then I get depressed looking at this one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8615456.stm

Adults whose diets included more salad dressing, nuts, fish, poultry, fruits and green leafy vegetables, and less high-fat dairy, red meat and butter, were far less likely to develop dementia.

They're still chasing the saturated fat, meat, cholesterol stuff as if it is to blame. They're inferring these foods increase the cause because the nuts/fish/fruits/salad dressing replaced red meat and butter.

Talk about apples and oranges. They're not controlling this study, so you cannot draw conclusions.

Think about what a bunch of fat, fish, meat, and fruits/veggies is REALLY replacing....it's probably refined carbs because anyone eating that much fat and protein isn't going to eat much more. People don't eat butter and meat OR the other diet.

Regardless, it's depressing because a "scientific" study is making conclusions before the study finishes and without controls.




The reason why I'm posting this in a weight loss thread is because removing refined carbs is essential to fat loss. Lots of people, myself in the past too, are concerned about heart disease from dietary fat. It just isn't supported by science, so don't worry about it.

 

[StoOgE]

No photos.. but I've gotten back on the weightlifting/basketball playing/eating somewhat decent food horse.

I'm 6'3" and was a bit under 210 about 3 weeks ago. I'm now 199! First time in about 2 years I've been under 200. Granted, it's because up until 6 months ago I was on a weightlifiting/weight gain kick that put on a lot of muscle mass and stomach fat.

Anyway, I figure I'm down close to 15 pounds of fat because I've put on a good deal of muscle mass in the last month as well.

Feel a lot better, am eating about 1/4th of the salt that I was a month ago and my blood pressure has gotten back to really good levels. It had been pushing almost almost high a while back.

I want to drop about another 10 pounds or so to get rid of the last remainder of my beer gut which is the only real fat left on me other than a tiny bit on my inner thighs that I've had even back when I was in really really good shape.

 

[StoOgE]

teh_pwn fish oil is really good for your brain. It's been proven to reduce the risk of alzheimers so it makes sense.

The study might not be blaming the fats and butter for the problem.. it may be that the nutrients you pick up eating leafy greens, fruits, fish and nuts (which would have similar properties to meat) might be helping to prevent the disease.

My diet over the last few weeks has been to cut out refined carbs completely from my diet and it's working wonders. It should be noted, I'm still eating a good deal of carbs... but I'm eating whole grain pasta which has a significantly higher GI ratio than refined which means it still "fills" me up and isn't converted to sugar/insulin too quickly.

 

[SlasherJPC]

Back at Comic Con last June:

Taken a week ago:

 

[borghe]

It's not about willpower, it's about insulin. (you don't tell a child that's has growth hormone deficiency to try harder).

Yesterday, I was able to comfortably go down a notch on my belt. A notch that I haven't used since 2008. I've lost about a half of an inch on my waist in the last 2 weeks, and I haven't lifted a finger. I'm not hungry, in fact I swear I'm thinking clearer than ever.

Tried for a year without changing my diet, sweating on an elliptical trainer, gaining muscle but not fat on p90x. Busting my ass, but not fat loss.

Remove the refined carbs and your body will start losing fat. If you're looking to gain muscle and lose fat, first remove the refined carbs. If you're insulin resistant, as most fat people are to some extent, your muscle cells aren't given the ideal amount of energy they need because insulin is literally stealing it and locking it in fat tissue.


And I used to have my weight fluctuate a lot. Sometimes my stomach would bloat up like a balloon by evening or after dinner. That doesn't happen anymore, and the reason has to do with how insulin inhibits the kidneys from excreting salt into urine. I'm eating probably 1.5x my daily sodium, but I don't retain water like that anymore.

refined carbs are, like everything, perfectly fine in moderation. I think the more pressing matter regarding carbs is that people don't realize exactly how many cheap carbs they take into their system. non-whole grain bread (especially 99% of your options at sandwich places), bagels, white rice (or white rice used in dishes like fried rice, spanish rice, etc), any sort of sugar, lactose/dairy, etc. I am a strong supporter of refined carbs being an excellent source of energy and a quick pick me up, but you have to consume them correctly and appropriately.

by removing most of your refined carbs you will find your energy levels will change a bit. maybe not a lot, but for some people it could be. You need to find the right balance of complex carbs and simple carbs to give you both the sustained and immediate energy you need. just like everything else in health, it's about a balance.

teh_pwn fish oil is really good for your brain. It's been proven to reduce the risk of alzheimers so it makes sense.

The study might not be blaming the fats and butter for the problem.. it may be that the nutrients you pick up eating leafy greens, fruits, fish and nuts (which would have similar properties to meat) might be helping to prevent the disease.

My diet over the last few weeks has been to cut out refined carbs completely from my diet and it's working wonders. It should be noted, I'm still eating a good deal of carbs... but I'm eating whole grain pasta which has a significantly higher GI ratio than refined which means it still "fills" me up and isn't converted to sugar/insulin too quickly.

this is really the point (monounsaturated fats). they are EXTREMELY healthy for you and vital to good heart health.

in regards to low carb.. eh..... for weight loss just through dieting low carb "works" (and I use that word loosely, thus the quotes), but for any sort of real exercise regimen you simply can't eliminate simple carbs. I've known too many people who eliminate or greatly limit their simple carb intake and the fact is that while the sustained energy through complex carbs is awesome, it simply isn't enough to give you the boosts you need to be competitive in an 10K run, 4x2 hour weight lifting regimen, daily 40+ minute cardio, etc.

the problem IS NOT that simple carbs are bad. on the contrary they are flat out the fastest and easiest to digest form of energy. The problem is that the average person doesn't realize HOW MANY simple carbs they take in in a single day, or more to the point, how over indulgent the average person is on simple carbs. Cut them back if you find yourself eating 300g of simple carbs a day. absolutely... but people who are running like 40/40/20 between protein/fat/carbs and all of the carbs are complex... 40-50g of complex carbs are NOT going to sustain any sort of massive energy boost during the day. You'll have the energy to get through the day and feel great and you won't feel hungry ever, but go on an hour long bike ride and I've seen too many low-carbers want to die by the 45-55 minute mark. I then suggest to them to chug a soda (non-diet, non-caffeinated) before they go and they come back feeling great, had energy for the full 60 minute ride, and still lose their weight for the week.

 

[StoOgE]

For sure.. there isn't anything "wrong" with carbs.. but for someone who doesn't lead an active lifestyle you really just don't need that many of them. refined carbs especially.

 

[BronzeWolf]

Remember that exercise doesn't slim you down.

Diet does.

If you are
- Running, which is not that good for either the hard or your knees
- Weightlifting, especially a heavy compound work out. Squats bench, daedlift, press, power clean.
- Or other cardio like the prowler or rower, the best cardio workouts IMHO

Your caloric needs WILL go up

What exercisen WILL do, is change the composition of your body. You can lose 100 lbs but if you haven't done any exercise, your composition will stay more or less the same, because your body wasn't given any stimuli to adapt. Give it some input, some need to become more efficient, and your body will do it.

I am with Borghe that working out kinds of give one "license" to eat some carbs for faster ATP and glucogen recovery. But you have to be smart about it!

Can I eat a big burgers with fries and coke? Yes, but only after a gym strength training session followed by flag football training/game.

Is a pizza ok? Maybe not everyday, but if I just finished playing volleyball at the beach for about 3 hours, it might be ok!

I usually run around with a little more of 100 grams of carbohydrates on my tummy. I also eat a 400 diet and work out a freaking ton. 100 grams of carbs on a sedentary person might just be coronary disease in progress

The problem is, if you are not expending those atp and glucogen reservoirs, you don't really need carbs for much. The body can produce glucogen from other materials and there is usually not much going on on carb heavy foods, nutritionally speaking. You average no exercise joe, doesn't need bread or soda. He just doesn't

I see carbs as TOOL. They help me regain all that lost weight when football season is over and quickly recover from hard workouts. It's also a tool I don't really need for my day to day living. You won't caught me dead ordering French fries. I'd rather eat an order of beans or veggies, or even an extra order of fish. But you bet I am downing those mofos after a weight lifting meet.

Fats and Proteins are the day to day tool of living. It's also pretty freaking easy to limit carbs! Eat meat, fish, chicken, lamb, dairy, veggies, coffee, tea and water and you won't miss breads, sugars and other sweetened stuff.

 

[borghe]

true, but I am also a proponent of "no matter what your weight says, you can't be leading a healthy lifestyle if you're not active". and trust me, I've been on both sides of the coin. Pretty damn underweight in school all the way through high school (graduated 17 years ago at 130lbs), and a peak of 50ish pounds over weight as of last year (205lbs). being a healthy weight but running out of breath before making it 30 minutes running or biking is still pretty damn unhealthy. My biggest beef with "weight loss" is that everyone focuses on....... weight loss. How much you way isn't anywhere near as important as your overall health. IMHO someone who is an ideal weight and can't run at a good speed for 30 minutes straight is significantly less healthy than someone overweight by 20-30 pounds but can run for an hour at the same speed or faster.

in my current routine, if I were losing weight but not showing strength improvements every day during weight lifting or cardiovascular improvements for running, to me that would be failure, even with the weight loss. What good is being an ideal body weight (or closer to it) while the rest of you is still some horribly out of shape pud?

And this isn't directed at anyone in this thread. Just my thoughts on it. Weight loss should be one area in a whole effort to become healthier. Focusing on weight loss and not overall health IMHO is the same as focusing on strength but not worrying about weight or body fat. If that's what you want then fine, but at the end of it you're not really going to be much healthier.

The problem is, if you are not expending those atp and glucogen reservoirs, you don't really need carbs for much. The body can produce glucogen from other materials and there is usually not much going on on carb heavy foods, nutritionally speaking. You average no exercise joe, doesn't need bread or soda. He just doesn't

this here is my problem. The average joe is out of shape. they may not be some out of shape fatty (and at 40lbs. lost I feel I've earned the right to use that word), but they are still just as out of shape without the fatty part. PLENTY of other cultures outside of the US have almost as high if not higher simple carb intakes as the US but nowhere near the weight problem. Why? Because we drive 6 blocks to the store, will drive 5 minutes in the parking lot just to find a spot that requires 1 minute less of walking, put our toddlers in strollers all the way up to 2 and 3 years old, and spend nice days sitting outside doing nothing. Heck, just the walking alone is substantially different than other cultures (aside from less than a couple dozen metro areas in the states).

promoting low carb IMHO is promoting unhealthy living as it basically says "You're not that active? That's perfectly fine and here's a diet for you." Park further away from the door, walk to the store a few times a week, and spend the nice days outside walking, running, biking, playing frisbee, swimming, whatever, and stuff like carbs and food quality begin to become less important. You still have to be sensible with your calories, but as long as you remain active and aren't eating until you are stuffed, it becomes a very natural state.

but I realize I'm getting preachy and I'll stop. The point of this thread is progress and change for the better, and above all that is DEFINITELY the most important thing.

 

[EzLink]

So looking over the cliffnotes of good carbs bad carbs, it seems that just cutting out most carbs is the way to go. Maybe limit myself to the bread I use for sandwiches (or even substitute them with lower carb wraps or something). It basically seems to be saying that fat people eat too much and are lazy because carbs make them behave that way. I've never heard that before but its certainly interesting, and its worth a shot I guess

 

[BronzeWolf]

Agreed with Borghe.

I just want to note that weight loss is still the numero UNO prevention measure one can do to stave off those nasty cancer, heart and brain conditions and diseases.

One must also remember that active people that are slightly overweight are less probable to suffer from those conditions as opposed to thin inactive people.

If I were king of the world, I would have all of the people in this thread strength training and playing some sport where they can get cardio while using their newfound strength. But since I am not, I would rather have them lose weight if they won't workout.

 

[StoOgE]

And this isn't directed at anyone in this thread. Just my thoughts on it. Weight loss should be one area in a whole effort to become healthier. Focusing on weight loss and not overall health IMHO is the same as focusing on strength but not worrying about weight or body fat. If that's what you want then fine, but at the end of it you're not really going to be much healthier.

I agree... it is very possible to have a good weight but still be unhealthy.

Even when I was getting to be a fatty I still played bball regularly for a few hours 3-4 days a week and lifted at least twice a week. I'm eating a whole lot better than I was.. and for the first time I'm trying to lose weight the right way.

I'd always done the "if you aren't hungry you aren't doing it right" crowd.. this time around I'm eating more meat, whole grain pasta and a metric ton of fruit. I have a hard time eating veggies still esepcially leafy greens because I just don't like them very much... but I'm trying.

It's amazing that I think I'm eating very nearly the same amount of food (probably a bit less) but am losing weight and feel a lot better during the day. Before it was a chore to make myself go work out.. now I can play bball for 30 minutes straight and not really even be winded.

My two biggest dietary changes were 1) cutting salt WAY WAY back 2) cutting out refined carbs. Salt was obviously causing water weight issues and refined carbs (which I ate too much of) were clearly being converted to energy faster than I could possibly use them.

What has been the easiest for me is now that salt has been really reduced in my diet (1/4th to 1/5th the amount I used to consume) is that foods without it are really starting to taste great. I had a piece of pizza from a local chain at work the other day and it just didn't taste good.. all I could taste was the mass of salt.. same problem with a burger about a week ago that I ate. Fruits, well prepared foods with actual spice to them taste amazing now that my body got over it's salt kick.

 

[borghe]

It basically seems to be saying that fat people eat too much and are lazy because carbs make them behave that way. I've never heard that before but its certainly interesting, and its worth a shot I guess

ummm...... no... people get fat for one reason and one reason only. They take in more calories than they burn. stay on a low carb diet and eat 3000 calories a day of fat and protein with little to no activity and guess what.. you'll be fat in no time.

low carb diets "work" because in a low activity lifestyle, simple carbs end up behaving the same way in the body as fat. and in most foods, carbs typically take up a good portion or majority of the calories. so by going low carb, essentially you are just lowering your calories with the easier of the two to eliminate (you can't eliminate protein or eventually your muscles will atrophy).

To sum up, low carb is just another calorie limiting diet. if you eat 1500 calories of 10f/50c/40p a day, or 40f/20c/40p a day or whatever other combination of 1500 calories, you will still lose the same weight in a week. what changes is how your body works with it, for things like building muscle, energy, fat reserves, cardio vascular health, etc.

edit - to slightly correct myself, there are SOME people out there who, as the_pwn mentioned, do not process carbs very well. usually it's a hyperthyroid condition or such.. in such people it IS STILL a caloric surplus that leads to them getting fat, BUT it is definitely helped along by the fact that they don't get the same energy out of simple carbs that normal people get. This goes back to the concept of them busting their ass in the gym and simply not burning as much energy as someone else doing the exact same thing. These people, even while remaining active, actually definitely do need to watch their carbs, as do diabetics obviously. So what I am saying here is not meant to be applied to everyone.. there are definitely cases out there where even healthy individuals need to watch carbs and worry about them. but for most of us, maintain a healthy lifestyle and eat reasonably and you will never have to worry about weight again.

 

[EzLink]

ummm...... no... people get fat for one reason and one reason only. They take in more calories than they burn. stay on a low carb diet and eat 3000 calories a day of fat and protein with little to no activity and guess what.. you'll be fat in no time.

low carb diets "work" because in a low activity lifestyle, simple carbs end up behaving the same way in the body as fat. and in most foods, carbs typically take up a good portion or majority of the calories. so by going low carb, essentially you are just lowering your calories with the easier of the two to eliminate (you can't eliminate protein or eventually your muscles will atrophy).

To sum up, low carb is just another calorie limiting diet. if you eat 1500 calories of 10f/50c/40p a day, or 40f/20c/40p a day or whatever other combination of 1500 calories, you will still lose the same weight in a week. what changes is how your body works with it, for things like building muscle, energy, fat reserves, cardio vascular health, etc.

Yeah, I know that if you take in more than you burn you'll gain weight no matter what.

I dunno, nutrition is so hard to figure out for a beginner. I want to get nutritious foods as well as lose weight but everything seems so damn complicated

My biggest problem though is eating after I'm full. I'm rarely hungry, yet I eat all the time, and it has been that way for years. If I could just start following when my body tells me I need to eat as opposed to eating whever I feel like it (which I ALWAYS feel like eating) I'd probably be fine. Curse you lack of self control!

Basically though are you saying good calories bad calories isn't worth my time?

 

[BronzeWolf]

low carb is not a calorie limiting diet, wtf. Load a protein shake with 2% milk and tell me how many calories are there? It's easy to go over 4000 without relying too much on carbs

calories in vs. calories out is too simplistic.

Your body will do stuff to reach homeostasis. If you start working out, your body will eat more. If you cut calories, your body will reduce it's body temperature. The best way to lose fat is to instruct the body to not store fat. That's by eating low GI carbs and no refined carbs. You might still be above your calories out equation, but you will be feeding muscle and not fat cells. This of course is only true for around 500 calories of your maintenance energy consumption. If you eat 4000 calories of super lean chicken and not working out, you STILL WILL get fat.

Although there are some studies that show that eating more -> being more active, because the body is trying to reach homeostasis. We become more energetic. Do we eat more because we work out or do we work out because we eat more? It doesn't matter, as long as your body is not mad busy storing fat instead of delivering that energy to the cells

 

[jonnybryce]

I'm not home right now with pics but I just wanted to share. I was 165, I shot up to 196 due to a mix of too much time and freedom, as well as some tragedy and depression. I'm 5' 9". I didn't think that was ok, especially since it wasn't 196 of muscle, just 196 of out of shape torso region.

So, I finally got serious and made a change. In the beginning, I ran often, and reduced my calorie intake a lot. I cut out basically all drinks, from soda to fruit punch juices, and either had milk or water with flavoring (lemon, powder, whatever). As time went on I eased up on myself, for lunch I'd have the 190-350 calorie Smart Ones frozen dinners, and for snacks, 100 calorie packs or various Cheerios, which come in at about 100 calories per serving.

It's been about 7 months since I began this process. I'm now 156, and don't run or go to the gym too often anymore. So I lost 40 pounds. I also have introduced regular meals back into my diet...I go out to lunch and get a sandwhich, or out to dinner and get a steak and potatoes, which I absolutely didn't do at first.

The weight came off really quick, I lost most of it within the first month or two, and I've done a good job keeping it off. Everyone's different, but it is possible to make a change, or get back on track if you've fallen off. Just stay dedicated and be smart.

 

[BronzeWolf]

Jonnybryce with all due respect, I seriously think that 156 at 5'9" is not very healthy either!

I would consider putting on some muscle and working out so you can have something to show off for all that effort and just be more useful and active in general.

 

[jonnybryce]

No offense taken. I wanted to lose the weight first, and then work my way up from there. I'm starting with weights and working out now, so I'm looking to weigh more, but the right kind of weight. I'm still under construction but thanks for the advice and words.

 

[borghe]

low carb is not a calorie limiting diet, wtf

Load a protein shake with 2% milk and tell me how many calories are there?

It's easy to go over 4000 without relying too much on carbs

milk isn't really low carb it still has just a little under half the sugar as a can of soda per same quantities.

2000 calories of mostly protein and fat is roughly usually like a 50/40/10 combination or so. This means you'll get about 250g of protein (1000 calories), 88g of fat (800 calories), and 50g of carbs (200 calories) for 388g of solid food (not counting water).

A "normal" 2000 calorie diet would be more like 30/20/50, for 150g protein, 250g of carb, and 44g of fat. Removing 200g of carbs and replacing them with 100g of protein alone is hard for a lot of people, not to mention doubling your fat intake.

In effect, most low carb dieters do something like a 50/40/10 diet but end up applying it to like a 1200 calorie diet for for 150g of protein, 40g of carbs, and only 52g of fat and 30g of carbs.

If you look at the normal "balanced" diet and the "typical" low carb diet, what do you see? Calories removed from the diet by eliminating carbs. To most people, this is low carb in a nutshell.

edit - I'm not saying it's right that I am figuring it this way or right that people treat it this way... just pointing out that to many, low carb means eliminate the carbs which effectively is creating the calorie deficit for weight loss.

 

[borghe]

Your body will do stuff to reach homeostasis. If you start working out, your body will eat more. If you cut calories, your body will reduce it's body temperature. The best way to lose fat is to instruct the body to not store fat. That's by eating low GI carbs and no refined carbs. You might still be above your calories out equation, but you will be feeding muscle and not fat cells. This of course is only true for around 500 calories of your maintenance energy consumption. If you eat 4000 calories of super lean chicken and not working out, you STILL WILL get fat.

at that point IMHO you are kind of splitting hairs. I understand and know what you are talking about, but most people gaining weight aren't doing so with a give or take of 200-500 calories a day. Hell, the average mcdonalds breakfast is like 600 calories at least, average mcdonalds lunch is almost 800 calories, and supper can easily go between 1000-1500 calories. snacking during the day can lead to another easy 300-450 calories. People are getting overweight because they are hitting calorie overages of 400-1200 calories per day at healthy weights, and maintaining 3000+ calorie per day diets at unhealthy weights. chances are, someone eating a ton of refined carbs but staying within 100-200 calories of their maintenance requirements isn't going to put much extra fat/weight on their body.

Jonnybryce with all due respect, I seriously think that 156 at 5'9" is not very healthy either!

I would consider putting on some muscle and working out so you can have something to show off for all that effort and just be more useful and active in general.

have to STRONGLY step in here being that's my height

currently 165 and have noticeable fat still in my abdominal area. strength isn't OMFG amazing, but I am benching 100lb for 12/10/8/8, curling 35lb bells for 12/10/8/8, 25 situps with 2x20lb bells on my chest, and running at a pace of 8:40 (longest run so far far is 10.5 miles). So far on track to EASILY hit 155lbs. with all of those numbers going up (well, except my pace). At 155lb. the weight loss is done (should be around memorial day) and at that point my calories (currently at 1000 cal deficit per day) will go to slightly over maintenance with an emphasis on protein just to keep my strength going up. not saying he couldn't be bigger/bulkier at 5' 9" than 156lb.. but that's still a pretty healthy weight for someone that size, aka me

 

[StoOgE]

at that point IMHO you are kind of splitting hairs. I understand and know what you are talking about, but most people gaining weight aren't doing so with a give or take of 200-500 calories a day. Hell, the average mcdonalds breakfast is like 600 calories at least, average mcdonalds lunch is almost 800 calories, and supper can easily go between 1000-1500 calories. snacking during the day can lead to another easy 300-450 calories. People are getting overweight because they are hitting calorie overages of 400-1200 calories per day at healthy weights, and maintaining 3000+ calorie per day diets at unhealthy weights. chances are, someone eating a ton of refined carbs but staying within 100-200 calories of their maintenance requirements isn't going to put much extra fat/weight on their body.

The problem with refined carbs is they convert so quickly that it is hard to keep your caloric levels correct without feeling hungry all the time. Which is why you want unrefined carbs with high fiber levels so they keep you full longer.

You are correct if you keep the calroies where they need, but it is much easier to keep your calories in check with fewer refined carbs.

 

[borghe]

The problem with refined carbs is they convert so quickly that it is hard to keep your caloric levels correct without feeling hungry all the time. Which is why you want unrefined carbs with high fiber levels so they keep you full longer.

this is "sort of" not true. how fast they convert to fat or are burned is heavily dependent on your metabolism. in a lower metabolism they will burn slower and thus convert to fat when unused. In a higher metabolism they will be consumed faster and thus will convert fewer calories to fat.

hectorse is correct here in promoting more muscle mass as better in this respect, considering muscle mass is probably the biggest factor in metabolism, even more than cardiovascular health.

edit - you are obviously completely correct about hunger and satiation and feeling fuller longer on complex carbs. I was just talking about the speed and rate at which simple carbs turn to fat. but yeah, if hunger is an issue for you, complex carbs will definitely take care of that.

 

[GoutPatrol]

I said I would post pictures in this thread like 6 months ago but never did. So I finally am.

This is January 2009.

This is where I was at my fattest, somewhere between 290-300 pounds. I never broke 300 on the scale, but basically, I was close enough to that number and finally decided to do something about it. I don't think that is a good picture to show how fat I was (I still like it because, you know, sloths are cute) so here is a face shot:

March 2009.

By then I had lost around 15 pounds. Damn I'm fat.

Today (April 2010.

The blue shirt is a little baggy, I bought it a few months ago. I was 185 a month ago but I'm 190 now. I would like to get down to around 175 (I'm 5'10.) I'm still not in great shape (but a big problem is excess skin so its harder for me to get definition) but I still look at myself and I'm just amazed at what I've done in a year. Growing up, I was always fat. I can't remember a time when I was thin. And now I'm not fat. Its just a huge self-esteem boost. Now if only I wasn't losing my hair, life would be golden.

 

[EviLore]

Nice work on the body transformation. Gotta do something about the hair though, brah, looks the beginning of a comb-over and that's definitely not the way to go.

 

[Vague]

ummm...... no... people get fat for one reason and one reason only. They take in more calories than they burn. stay on a low carb diet and eat 3000 calories a day of fat and protein with little to no activity and guess what.. you'll be fat in no time.

low carb diets "work" because in a low activity lifestyle, simple carbs end up behaving the same way in the body as fat. and in most foods, carbs typically take up a good portion or majority of the calories. so by going low carb, essentially you are just lowering your calories with the easier of the two to eliminate (you can't eliminate protein or eventually your muscles will atrophy).

You're wrong.
Please explain how I couldn't lose weight eating 1500 calories a day but I can if I eat 2000-2500 calories a day on low carb. My fiance eats 3500 a day and same deal for him. We go to the gym 3x a week for weight lifting only.
Please explain how I continued to lose 4lb this past week when we took a break from the gym for our deload week.
We've been eating low carb ketogenic (<30g a day) with occassional (well, twice) cheat meals for several months now with consistent losses.

You're repeating dietary myths.

The second law of thermodynamics proves that calorie in != calorie out.

See:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/83/2/260
Carb restriction and an increase in protein is the best metric of weight loss.

http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/02/how-weve-came-to-believe-that.html
Insulin, not overeating, causes obesity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC524027/
ZERO performance difference in high endurance cardio between fat adapted low carb and carbohydrate feeders.
"Both observational and prospectively designed studies support the conclusion that submaximal endurance performance can be sustained despite the virtual exclusion of carbohydrate from the human diet."

Please read: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3241539

Edit: Also as a girl just an inch shorter than you I run a 5k at 8:30 pace, Deadlift 135x5x5, Bench 95x5x5, Squat 165x5x2, Leg press 300x10x2 and do Kneeling cable crunches 120x10x3 all on low carb which blows your ideas away.

 

[GoutPatrol]

Nice work on the body transformation. Gotta do something about the hair though, brah, looks the beginning of a comb-over and that's definitely not the way to go.

Its not THAT bad yet, but yeah I'm probably gonna cut it real short starting in the May.

 

[Johnlenham]

You're wrong.
] Also as a girl just an inch shorter than you I run a 5k at 8:30 pace, Deadlift 135x5x5, Bench 95x5x5, Squat 165x5x2, Leg press 300x10x2 and do Kneeling cable crunches 120x10x3 all on low carb which blows your ideas away.

wat. I must be about as strong as you! Im not sure if I should be ashamed at myself or amazed at you or a combination of both! :lol

 

[BronzeWolf]

I just want to call out the calories out > calories in nonsense

Animals and people GET FATTER EVEN IF CALORIES OUT>CALORIES IN

It's been proven enough times by all kind of studies. Others have their links more than available than me right now. People (and animals) have starved to death with fat tissue on them.

Kids get tall, not fat, even though they eat like fiends due to their hormones

Gaining and losing fat is purely hormonal.

Hormones tell your body what to do with the nutrients that come in.

About milk, lactose is super low GI, around 30 compared to glucose, around 58. It's effect on insulin levels are too low to even measure. That's why mammals produce milk, it's the best anabolic.

People lose fat on calorie surplus fat heavy diets! How do they do it? it happens when cells are so insulin resistant from a carb heavy diet, that when they switch to fat centric, their muscles are better able to use the nutrients, developing and using the dietary and reservoir fat more effectively.

This wouldn't be true if this was a simple as calories out > calories in

wat. I must be about as strong as you! Im not sure if I should be ashamed at myself or amazed at you or a combination of both! :lol

head over the fitness thread to get superb workout advice

 

[Johnlenham]

head over the fitness thread to get superb workout advice

EH? ive been posting in there since October last year :lol

 

[teh_pwn]

refined carbs are, like everything, perfectly fine in moderation. I think the more pressing matter regarding carbs is that people don't realize exactly how many cheap carbs they take into their system. non-whole grain bread (especially 99% of your options at sandwich places), bagels, white rice (or white rice used in dishes like fried rice, spanish rice, etc), any sort of sugar, lactose/dairy, etc. I am a strong supporter of refined carbs being an excellent source of energy and a quick pick me up, but you have to consume them correctly and appropriately.

by removing most of your refined carbs you will find your energy levels will change a bit. maybe not a lot, but for some people it could be. You need to find the right balance of complex carbs and simple carbs to give you both the sustained and immediate energy you need. just like everything else in health, it's about a balance.

There is no nutritional value to carbohydrate. None. Our ancestors ate virtually for over 99% human existence. The problem with "moderation" is that you are inferring that you should eat them because they have some nutritional value. They do not.

It has nothing to do with calories or energy differences. It has to due with the hormone insulin.

 

[teh_pwn]

ummm...... no... people get fat for one reason and one reason only. They take in more calories than they burn. stay on a low carb diet and eat 3000 calories a day of fat and protein with little to no activity and guess what.. you'll be fat in no time.

People get fat from insulin. Without insulin you cannot store fat. The higher the blood sugar response of food, the more insulin your body creates.

They have injected rats with insulin and they starve to death. They die of heart failure because their heart muscle has been cannibalized. They also die obese. The fat was never used because the hormone insulin told the body not to use it.



Look, I'm not saying that exercise doesn't make you healthier, and I think carbohydrates have their use for sports and athletics, but they aren't essential and they are the reason why people get fat. Not because they're lazy, but because hormones store fat REGARDLESS OF CALORIC INTAKE.

Edit: But let me also say that I don't blame you for believing in calories in versus calories out. I somewhat believed that for a long time until the mountains of scientific evidence proved me otherwise.

 

[teh_pwn]

ummm...... no... people get fat for one reason and one reason only. They take in more calories than they burn. stay on a low carb diet and eat 3000 calories a day of fat and protein with little to no activity and guess what.. you'll be fat in no time.

The whole calories in vesus calories out thing is misguided because:

1. You're insinuating that the body does not change hunger/CaloriesIn based on CaloriesOut.

2. You're inferring causality without a basis. Saying that overeating is the cause of obesity is like saying that drinking too much causes alcoholism. It doesn't explain why the person does it.

3. Your equation, I'm assuming is this:

deltaCalories = CaloriesIn - CaloriesOut.

It's wrong. Here is the correct equation:

0 = CaloriesIn - CaloriesOut +/- CaloriesToOrFromFat +/- caloriesFromCannibalizedTissueOrReducedMetabolism


Insulin controls the flow of calories into fat. If insulin is high, calories go into fat cells, regardless of the number of calories needed vs consumed.

So if you eat a high carb diet that has a high insulin response, you may need 2500 calories in your muscles, organs. Insulin doesn't care, it was the evolutionary response to a bunch sugary fruits and vegetables showing up just before periods of famine (winter). Your body is programmed to store fat, because natural selection has weeded out genetics such that people store fat in anticipation of winter/famine. It is also a way for the body to reduce blood sugar, that only carbs raise so that it doesn't get to toxic levels.

So check out happens to this equation when you consume 2500 calories, but insulin stores 400 calories as fat:

0 = CaloriesIn - CaloresOut +/- CaloriesToOrFromFat +/- caloriesFromCannibalizedTissueOrReducedMetabolism


0 = 2500 - CaloriesOut - 400 +/- caloriesFromCannibalizedTissueOrReducedMetabolism
0 = 2100 - CaloriesOut +/- caloriesFromCannibalizedTissueOrReducedMetabolism
2100 = CaloriesOut +/- caloriesFromCannibalizedTissueOrReducedMetabolism

Now suppose your muscles and organs need 2500 calories under normal metabolic rate to break even.

2100 = 2500 +/- caloriesFromCannibalizedTissueOrReducedMetabolism
caloriesFromCannibalizedTissueOrReducedMetabolism = 400

This means that you need to:
1. Reduce your metabolic rate. Ie, your body intentionally weakens you through fatigue or poor circulation/heat.

2. Cannibalize muscles and organs.

3. Overeat (but you still gain fat regardless if you decide to).


It is only until the body reduces insulin, or that body fat is accumulated enough such that current insulin levels cannot hold any more fat, that this problem goes away.

If you go on a low carb diet, insulin is reduced, the body fat % setpoint is reduced, and the body just feasts on body fat until the new setpoint is reached without exercise or hunger.

edit - I'm not saying it's right that I am figuring it this way or right that people treat it this way... just pointing out that to many, low carb means eliminate the carbs which effectively is creating the calorie deficit for weight loss.

Not necessarily. There are several studies from the 1950s/1960s on Pennington's diet (Atkins basically) where subjects consume 3-5k calories, lose fat and gain muscle. Their muscles were so deprived on energy due to excessive insulin, that simply getting the muscles a stable supply of energy made them grow to their natural, unstimulated size.

 

[teh_pwn]

teh_pwn fish oil is really good for your brain. It's been proven to reduce the risk of alzheimers so it makes sense.

The study might not be blaming the fats and butter for the problem.. it may be that the nutrients you pick up eating leafy greens, fruits, fish and nuts (which would have similar properties to meat) might be helping to prevent the disease.

My diet over the last few weeks has been to cut out refined carbs completely from my diet and it's working wonders. It should be noted, I'm still eating a good deal of carbs... but I'm eating whole grain pasta which has a significantly higher GI ratio than refined which means it still "fills" me up and isn't converted to sugar/insulin too quickly.

Yes fish oil is good for the brain, but the article is inferring that beef and butter is the problem.

That isn't a scientific study because it doesn't have controls. There are so many differences between group A and B that you have no way of concluding anything.

The proper way is to give groups A and B the exact same diet, but exchange a single thing with the others.

I doubt that their study had group A eating:
1. more salad dressing
2. nuts
3. fish
4. poultry
5. fruits
6. green leafy vegetables.

And a group B eating:
1. high-fat dairy
2. red meat
3. butter

Look at all of the filling food that group A gets without refined carbohydrates. Even if they got to eat other things, it's likely that they didn't eat much more because they get numerous filling foods.

The other group must be eating something else. We don't know. Hell group A might, but again we don't know.

Who knows, maybe red meat and butter do cause Alzheimer, but there aren't controls to conclude that.

What I suspect is that group B got to eat more loosely, and they ate refined carbohydrates. Carbs cause vascular damage in blood vessels and add to the damage in the brain on top of whatever Alzheimers is doing. And there's other studies showing excessive blood sugar screwing up proteins and contributing to the plaque that causes Alzheimers.

My point is that they are still insinuating the saturated fats and red meat are bad for people, without controlled studies and without any scientific evidence (controlled) to suggest it prior to the study.

If the study is controlled they can say, "we replaced x food with y, and it was healthier". Instead they say "we replaced abc with xyz, therefore z is definitely the problem".

Uncontrolled studies are the cable news of science. They aren't.

 

[Stephen Stills]

Wow, what an inspiring thread! I've just read through it all and I just thought I'd share my experience so far with weight loss.

About three months ago I weighed about 300 pounds, I have no excuse for doing so, I just ate too much crap and didn't exercise enough, so I decided to make a change. I cut out junk food and started going for a four mile walk everyday. At first the weight simply poured off me and I lost about 2 stone (30 pounds or so) in about 5 weeks. Eventually I decided to do another 4 mile walk in the afternoon and my weight loss slowed to about 2 pounds a week, which is pretty normal.

However, I joined a gym on Saturday and have visited it twice so far since then and I had my weekly weigh-in this morning and I've lost ten pounds since last week? Is that normal? I'm planning on going to the Gym 4 times a week, just how much weight do you guys think I might be able to shift a week with this schedule?

 

[PuppetSlave]

The more you weigh the more the weight will fluctuate with different water levels in your body. Patience is key. Your weight is dropping no matter what your scale might say one morning and in the beginning quite fast also probably.

You going to the gym will help but mainly with keeping muscle while losing fat. Diet is key in weightloss. Exercise helps but not as much as you might imagine. The benefits from exercise are tremendous though so keep at it. Be happy with 2 pounds a week, thats alot and will slow down eventually. Be patient when it happens.

 

[EviLore]

milk isn't really low carb it still has just a little under half the sugar as a can of soda per same quantities.

Woah there. Milk sugar isn't the same thing as soda sugar. Lactose is (glucose+galactose), hfcs/sucrose is (glucose+fructose), and fructose is horrid for you.