What lessons do you want Sony to learn?

Stick to what youre good with. SP.

But even if the urge is too great to go ape shit on GAAS, at least spread it out. But most of their new GAAS are shooters. And according to the initial business slides, they had them all bunched up coming out in a couple year span. For those of you who never saw it, they would had launched like 10 new GAAS IPs coming out by NOW in 2025 all overlapping each other. And those business slides didnt even include Bungie games yet as the buy out deal wasnt finalized yet. So add any Bungie games like Marathon to the pile too.

- Helldivers 2
- Concord
- Anything Bungie related.... Destiny, Marathon
- Fairgames
- Factions 2
- Deviation Games

I probably even missed some too.

Even if all these games released, the chances of all or most of them doing great is slim. And right now, the only one so far a hit is H2. The rest have middling hype or already cancelled.

So not only did they say years ago "all we need is one hit to cover the rest" is absolutely untrue as H2 isnt that successful to cover all the bombs and Bungies $1.2B of employee retention fees, but by skewing hard to shooters it really limits your success.

It's like doing sports bets and doing 6 bets in such a way the chances of more than 1 winning is small. And for overall success, not only do you need at least 1 ticket winning, but it has to be a big one because the avg winning ticket with only one coming through wont cover the 5 losing ones anyway.

Thats a bad betting strategy unless you hope and dream lots of tix come through as winners, or the solo ticket that wins is COD or Fortnite levels of payout.
 
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Hector Hall said:
And you are stuck in a non reasoning loop.

If your platform is redundant because it doesn't have exclusive games it will decay, it will have less resources to keep investing in new games and hardware, and a Windows opens to it ultimately closing shop.

And if it closes shop, there won't be a new iteration that plays your older games, your digital library is at risk, you name it.

If doing some Spencer-y moves "uh oh we are all gamers" did put Nintendo or Steam in danger I am pretty sure you would understand very well and firmly oppose it. But as it's PlayStation and you don't care about its "uh you ponies just want others without gamez" and the "you can still play it".
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Good thing I dont have to worry about that, thats why I invested into steam. Also, Xbox is going mutliplatform to fund their new games. PS could easily do the same. That way the platform stays around, just like Xbox. But then you guys wont have a console war anymore, oh the horror.
 
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diffusionx said:
You are looking at this from the POV of console warring which is stupid, and it has nothing to do with anything anyone has said.

As people have said, Sony is intentionally devaluing the one thing that makes them unique and keeps them in this business - the platform. It's why Apple and Google spend billions of dollars a year and give away their OS for free to customers every year, because the platform is the only thing that keeps them viable (the hardware is basically the same at this point). It's just a stupid thing because you are killing your long term viability for short term cash.

If a bunch of people decide not to get a PS6 because they will "wait for the PC port", then they just lost a huge chunk of their customer base, and then that PC port needs to compete with the 50,000 games that come out on Steam annually instead of being front and center because it's a Sony game on a Sony platform. This is not a good thing for Sony. It's also exactly how the Xbox platform disintegrated before our very eyes.


no, Factions 2 was intentionally meant to be super huge and ambitious, not a multipllayer mode like the first one.
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But I keep hearing no one wants to deal with the "hassle" of a PC. Plug and play, after work, press one button and it works. So how would they lose a huge chunk?
 
Rhazer Fusion said:
Imo, that would destroy PlayStation. If the games are being ported to Switch and Xbox, why buy a PlayStation then? Sure, Microsoft are selling more games now once they went multiplatform, but their consoles sales are even more lackluster now which is saying something and unlike Microsoft, Sony actually needs Playstation console sales.
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It really wouldn't. Why buy a Playstation? For the DualSense and PS+. Exposing other platforms to Playstation games will entice them to buy a Playstation. Trojan horse tactic and all
 
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Hector Hall said:
Not neccesarily

It may get more money from first party games.

But, if that means for example selling 5 million less consoles you have 5 million gamers less to sell accessories, get a 30% cut on every game or microtransaction, 5 million people less who can subscribe to PS+, who buy your hardware, and 5 million people that may get your game in PC instead of Steam and you will have to give 30% to Valve... and that's if those gamers don't decide to go buy a key in one of those web pages that are clouded piracy.

Let's do some numbers OK?
SONY has made 150 million dollars on Others software this quarter after the official data. That not only PC but also MLBA on Xbox and Switch, Destiny 2 on Xbox and Lego Horizon on Switch. If each PS new user generates IDK 500 dollars for Sony between hardware, accessories, PS+, FP and third party games, then a mere drop of 300k consoles in a quarter would be worse that what you earn on porting your games.
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You can't really put it up like that.

There's double dippers who's buying it on pc, and there's alot of pc players who would never buy a console so that is money gained, not lost.

Sony ain't braindead. If it wasn't profitable then they wouldn't do it
 
It's so interesting to hear people glaze old Sony leadership without any knowledge or details. It was even more interesting to hear Shannon Studstill talk about God of War and Santa Monica and how they almost shutdown God of War in 2013.

This was likely Shuhei Yoshida, but maybe not? And I wonder if this was the message across the board with IP.

God of War sold well but it didn't do the bonkers numbers that 2018 did.

I think this worked out for a lot of studios, we got games like Spider-Man, Horizon, Day's Gone, and Ghost of Tsushima out of this, but I also think revisiting IP can be a strong move as well, especially with lessons learned from new IP.

The Killzone games started out with a lack of polish. The polish that Guerrilla can make now would do wonders for that franchise. They became technical marvels and their gameplay reached new heights.

I think the more and more people find out about Shuhei Yoshida the more and more people realize he isn't perfect nor is he this figure that the community makes him out to be.
 
Mibu no ookami said:
I think the more and more people find out about Shuhei Yoshida the more and more people realize he isn't perfect nor is he this figure that the community makes him out to be.
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kicked-in-the-groin-beavis.gif


yosp is perfect, yosp is love
 
  1. Drop live-service games unless an actual dev has an organic idea for one that isn't trend-chasing
  2. Expand Japanese first-party studios or fund more studios already in Japan.
  3. Create more AA budget games so release cadence can improve, and scale to AAA if one sells enough to be a big new franchise.
  4. I'd be ok with more local multiplayer or multiplayer games that aren't an endless treadmill, or multiplayer modes added to single-player games if they fit.
  5. Bring back classic IP, at modest AA budgets, and take risks with them. IP like: SOCOM, Syphon Filter, Timesplitters, The Legend of Dragoon, Wild Arms, Rogue Galaxy, Wipeout, etc.
  6. Ramp up emulation efforts to offer more than a small drip-feed of older games, and try to get PS3 emulation going since cloud latency sucks.

diffusionx said:
If a bunch of people decide not to get a PS6 because they will "wait for the PC port", then they just lost a huge chunk of their customer base, and then that PC port needs to compete with the 50,000 games that come out on Steam annually instead of being front and center because it's a Sony game on a Sony platform. This is not a good thing for Sony. It's also exactly how the Xbox platform disintegrated before our very eyes.
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Xbox as a platform disintegrated since the Xbox One era with DRM no one wanted, created no unique services beyond just Game Pass, and didn't even have enough good games they made even if they never ported elsewhere. They're starting to rectify this, but the cost per AAA game is reaching a point where gating to a single-platform isn't viable (AA still could though). Sony's delayed release structure to PC is still seeing big sales numbers on PS5 + sales to people who will never buy their box on PC.

Consoles should take back the benefits of being top-down controlled platforms, because they've done little to innovate social features vs Discord, lack any meaningful hardware innovations beyond Nintendo, and lack form factor variety vs other platforms (Windows, Apple & Google). Apple and Google are also losing their platform storefront monopoly through government intervention as well, and you're seeing Microsoft + Epic Games prepare their own storefronts to release on these platforms literally this year. Quality of storefront, unique services, hardware features and discoverability for third-party content makers are going to matter more if a platform is going to be able to compete, not just a handful of exclusive titles that are getting more expensive to produce.
 
The_Mike said:
You can't really put it up like that.

There's double dippers who's buying it on pc, and there's alot of pc players who would never buy a console so that is money gained, not lost.

Sony ain't braindead. If it wasn't profitable then they wouldn't do it
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Those double dippers and never buying are statistical noise.

In any case, if to potentially get that small group of people money you really negate one of the biggests attraction points of your hardware and risk on losing at least some millions users in your ecosystem, it's not worth it.

And about being braindead well, they aren't and there are some declarations of Totoki and Nishino about actively following this data and not seeing for now user migration (that would literally collapse PlayStation scale economy even if a 10 million drop), but on the other hand you see... theorically none of those big Corp are brain dead and all have brilliant people, data analysts etc..but in real world many of those corporations screw up time after time with very dubious commercial decisions, investment decision etc. Just look at MS.
 
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Paasei said:
InFamous
Sly Raccoon
Jak & Daxter
WipeOut
Bloodborne

No more remasters, no more gaas.
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There are ps3 games that I would like to be remastered, so they can be played in current gen hardware, otherwise they will be forgotten forever, like Puppeteer, Rain, GoW Ascension.
I don't want to be dependent on cloud streaming, having to pay ps+ premium for it and risk license issues getting the games removed later.
 
Hector Hall said:
Those double dippers and never buying are statistical noise.

In any case, if to potentially get that small group of people money you really negate one of the biggests attraction points of your hardware and risk on losing at least some millions users in your ecosystem, it's not worth it.

And about being braided well, they aren't and there are some declarations of Totoki and Nishino about actively following this data and not seeing for now user migration (that would literally collapse PlayStation scale economy even if a 10 million drop), but on the other hand you see... theorically none of those big Corp are brain dead and all have brilliant people, Data analysts etc..but in real world many of those screw up time after time with very dubious commercial decisions, investment decision etc
Click to expand...

You need to understand, there are people who don't care about console hardware, and would rather miss out on the games rather than buying a console for a handful of games.
Just like there's console people who would never buy a PC over a console.

Sony are catering to those people by releasing their games on PC.

Look at the data. PS5 has been the weakest PlayStation launch in regards of exclusives at launch, yet it sold out everywhere.
Exclusives aren't that important like many people in here believe.>

Just look at Microsofts titles on PS, they sell really well, and they sold like shit on Xbox. Xbox has(had?) games, but brand loyalty was something they never truly got, not even from the x360 era where they actually did quite well.

Besides Helldivers 2, games from Sony on PC has never really sold that well compared to the console anyway, so while they are selling on PC, it is nowhere near as much as on Playstation.

Someone with a high end PC that maybe buy one or two sony games would 99% likely not buy a PS5 just for a handful of titles.
 
The_Mike said:
You need to understand, there are people who don't care about console hardware, and would rather miss out on the games rather than buying a console for a handful of games.
Just like there's console people who would never buy a PC over a console.

Sony are catering to those people by releasing their games on PC.

Look at the data. PS5 has been the weakest PlayStation launch in regards of exclusives at launch, yet it sold out everywhere.
Exclusives aren't that important like many people in here believe.>

Just look at Microsofts titles on PS, they sell really well, and they sold like shit on Xbox. Xbox has(had?) games, but brand loyalty was something they never truly got, not even from the x360 era where they actually did quite well.

Besides Helldivers 2, games from Sony on PC has never really sold that well compared to the console anyway, so while they are selling on PC, it is nowhere near as much as on Playstation.

Someone with a high end PC that maybe buy one or two sony games would 99% likely not buy a PS5 just for a handful of titles.
Click to expand...

Yes, I understand, but here the issues is, Sony is a hardware and console manufacturer, and it has to cater to the public that are interested in their products, not on the ones that aren't and neglecting by doing so the principal attraction of a console (exclusive library that gives it identity) is gone, and just hoping that some of the not interested crowd will bite.

Any potential console customer lost worths at least half a dozen of the "I will buy a game from time to time, and hey If I found a key on Pirates. Com cheaper I will do just that" crowd.
 
Hector Hall said:
Yes, I understand, but here the issues is, Sony is a hardware and console manufacturer, and it has to cater to the public that are interested in their products, not on the ones that aren't and neglecting by doing so the principal attraction of a console (exclusive library that gives it identity) is gone, and just hoping that some of the not interested crowd will bite.

Any potential console customer lost worths at least half a dozen of the "I will buy a game from time to time, and hey If I found a key on Pirates. Com cheaper I will do just that" crowd.
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Yoshida has said they are printing money on PC with very little effort.

Sony are catering to their users. Want their console? Buy it.
Want to play their games and have a beefy PC? Buy the games.
As long as Sony earns money then they see no problem.

The only reason to be against this is if someone is being a salty fanboy that feels like their plastic box feels less worth it for them.

I do believe Sony knows more what they are doing than someone on Gaf though.
 
The_Mike said:
Yoshida has said they are printing money on PC with very little effort.

Sony are catering to their users. Want their console? Buy it.
Want to play their games and have a beefy PC? Buy the games.
As long as Sony earns money then they see no problem.

The only reason to be against this is if someone is being a salty fanboy that feels like their plastic box feels less worth it for them.

I do believe Sony knows more what they are doing than someone on Gaf though.
Click to expand...

Yoshida is no economist, to be frank.

Evidently if the game is already made then porting it with little effort is like printing money. If that hadn't any negative consequences. Like losing customers of your core businesses, for example.

Now, porting them to Switch 2, Mac, and Xbox why not would be like printing even more money? . But if you do that you do a Spencer-Nadella and your core business crumble and turn third party.

When Yoshida was in WWS it was prohibited, as he said. Why? Because there was people at charge since 25 years that understood exactly how the business work, just as Nintendo understands it.

That's the Iron Law of videogames: exclusive games sell consoles/game machines. And it's as true now as in 1985. And whoever forgets it will pay dearly, as Spencer and the sad Xbox brand.

Unfortunately, Hermen Hulst is a PC fanboy and convinced Ryan that why not, more money. Pure greed, gain some 500 more million even if it means tampering with what makes your business a thing. These are lesser times, and lesser people have been at the helm these years, people very inferior to the ones that wisely had Yoshida and others who don't know a thing about running a business, from destroying the foundation of what makes a hardware enticing

Now with Nishino we don't know. It's ver difficult once those 500m flow to decide to stop them flowing, unless they start to see people migrating to PC in big numbers. At least Nishino said clearly that exclusive software sells systems and seeks to have ordered not porting some games, we will see what happens.
 
we wan't our favourite IP back, give me Uncharted, Infamous, Socom, Bloodborne, Killzone, Motorstorm, Driveclub, MAG, warhawk, ratchet, last of us, jak and daxter, stop giving us trend chasing shit.
 
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The_Mike said:
You need to understand, there are people who don't care about console hardware, and would rather miss out on the games rather than buying a console for a handful of games.
Click to expand...
I think this is a very important point but maybe not in the way you originally intended.

It needs to be more than a handful of games. That's the problem. People will skip a console that only have a couple exclusives, but they WILL cave and buy a console when it becomes a dozen games. Sony has had piss poor output this gen relative to others. MS has had terrible output since late 360 era and they're basically irrelevant as a manufacturer now.
 
I just want them to take chances again. Make some AA games and see if they stick. Make a real RPG again for God's sake. Find some Japanese studios making unique things and get them under your belt. This reliance on sequels sucks. Oh, and fire all of the DEI asshats you hired in California and go back to focusing on good stories without worrying about assholes who don't buy games anyway
 
I hope there are true gamers and game developers especially from Japan at the higher ups of Sony PS office , not just MBA none gamer guys. Stop this GAAS and live service obsession which is alienating many fans and potential customers. I hope Sony take advantage of there old IP from Ps1 to Ps3 era.

Traditional multiplayer mode is acceptable just like what they did Uncharted, Warhawk, Wipeout, Killzone, Resistance, Twisted metal, Motorstorm, MAGS, Gran Turismo, etc as long that there is always a main single player campaign and story mode.
 
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