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[beelzebozo]

vinterbird, you are my homeboy. we agree on that stuff completely.

 

[Twig]

To each his own. I don't care shit about the gameplay and hard boss fights. I care about the experience and making a immersive world with a story that brings emotions and genuine interest in the world to the player. I would always pick story over gameplay in any situation.

Some people are ludologists, others are narrotologists. I'm the latter.

So go watch a movie or read a book. Stop ruining games.

 

[beelzebozo]

wait, i missed that story over gameplay part. that's off.

but i agree with the notion that enjoyment of a zelda game is not predicated on difficulty. i see a baseline level of difficulty that is challenging enough without being frustrating and think it's fine; i guess some of you feel it personally drop beneath the "baby's first zelda" level of easy where you're hardly doing anything at all and are essentially pressing a win button, but i don't get that in the least--even with the easiest of zeldas. i'm always, always enjoying myself, even if i'm not pulling my hair out or stressing too much about whether or not i'll be able to beat a boss.

 

[vMaxx]

I cannot wait anymore.I want to see it in action!!!The wait for the trailer is killing me.Please put in in a cryochamber until June 15th!

 

[Dascu]

wait, i missed that story over gameplay part. that's off.

but i agree with the notion that enjoyment of a zelda game is not predicated on difficulty. i see a baseline level of difficulty that is challenging enough without being frustrating and think it's fine; i guess some of you feel it personally drop beneath the "baby's first zelda" level of easy where you're hardly doing anything at all and are essentially pressing a win button, but i don't get that in the least--even with the easiest of zeldas. i'm always, always enjoying myself, even if i'm not pulling my hair out or stressing too much about whether or not i'll be able to beat a boss.

Oh, I'm enjoying myself loads when I play Zelda games. But I still think they're too easy and at times it does hurt my enjoyment of the game. For one, bosses go down oh so fast, you barely get to experience it.

It just boggles my mind how the difficulty and health system in a Zelda game is so much worse than say the Mario series. You start the game with same amount of health as the amount you end the game with, yet there's still a great difficulty curve that's both noticable, but also not aggravating. Would the last part of the Bowser fight in NSMBWii be as fun if there wasn't a lake of lava beneath you?

 

[LegendofJoe]

anyone want to guess what framerate the development team has chosen?

I'm equally split between 30FPS and 60FPS.

However after seeing SMG from EAD Tokyo in 2007 running at 60FPS has ever since made me think Zelda Wii could also be a 60FPS game. With Wii Motion Plus & 60FPS, swordplay would be heavenly good.

On average I think Zelda will have to stream a lot more data than the Galaxy games, so I expect 30fps.

 

[brandonh83]

Zelda isn't about difficulty, but even I think the games have been way too easy. People are talking about challenge because part of playing a videogame is getting through obstacles and many people feel that things have been easy to the point where it's distracting.

In my opinion though, I think more efforts should be made about the puzzles, trying to figure out your next destination, etc. Good, solid and challenging combat is welcome, but my favorite thing about the series is getting absolutely stumped in a dungeon.

 

[selig]

In my opinion though, I think more efforts should be made about the puzzles, trying to figure out your next destination, etc. Good, solid and challenging combat is welcome, but my favorite thing about the series is getting absolutely stumped in a dungeon.

dito, though I´d really like Zelda to focus on exploration outside of dungeons. Or make dungeons less like typical Zelda-dungeons, but believable places...old, broken ruins, natural caves, stuff like that. Instead of...minigame-puzzle-rooms.

Many games are story first, Heavy Rain being the most recent example. Games like that is what is going to save this medium from being childish and immature. We're still in the banal and simple phase of "if the core mechanics isn't fun, I don't care if the story is amazing" which is what is destroying games with all of their forced co-op and multiplayer shit.

okay, this is the biggest bs I´ve read on gaf in a long time. so you want games to focus even more on story? thanks, no. games being mature or not has nothing to do with story. Mario Galaxy is a mature game because it features great gameplay. that´s the only thing that´s important. Im sorry, but I agree with that other guy: go watch a movie.

and the hylian language voice acted wouldn't work as well since they also ain't Team Ico.

yeah, EAD is a 100times Team Ico.

 

[Vinterbird]

So go watch a movie or read a book. Stop ruining games.

Many games are story first, Heavy Rain being the most recent example. Games like that is what is going to save this medium from being childish and immature. We're still in the banal and simple phase of "if the core mechanics isn't fun, I don't care if the story is amazing" which is what is destroying games with all of their forced co-op and multiplayer shit.

 

[wRATH2x]

OK I think I'm the only one who actually thinks this, but that LttP artwork isn't what I want. I mean sure it looks great as a picture or painting or whatever, but as a game I wouldn't like it. It looks fine as art but I wouldn't want it in motion. I don't know some of the other art people want are not what I want to see. But hey I loved WW's art style(Which some people think is terrible for whatever reason) and I want a return to the OOT/MM art work but cel-shaded.

And when it comes to voice acting, lets be honest, Nintendo doesn't have the best track record when it comes down to it. They aren't Capcom, but they ain't no Bioware, and the hylian language voice acted wouldn't work as well since they also ain't Team Ico. I didn't mind Midna though. If we had to have voice acting, gun to my balls and all, I'd go with english. I'd take the mumbled gibberish if I had to but I don't think it would work as well as you guys think it would.

 

[runnin_blue]

*walks out door*

 

[Bentendo]

I'm so insanely excited. The only disappointment is that Nintendo had to spoil that they would reveal Zelda at the event. Why couldn't that have been a surprise? Since they did that, I doubt the reaction of the audience will be as "HOOLLLLYY SHIIIIT!!! HOLLLYYY SHIT! WHO'S THE MAN! WHO'S THE MAN! OH MY GOD!" as E3 2004 was.

For old time's sake:

Yeah, you know you want to watch it.

 

[brandonh83]

dito, though I´d really like Zelda to focus on exploration outside of dungeons. Or make dungeons less like typical Zelda-dungeons, but believable places...old, broken ruins, natural caves, stuff like that. Instead of...minigame-puzzle-rooms.

And thus the hammer met the nail.

 

[Dascu]

Many games are story first, Heavy Rain being the most recent example. Games like that is what is going to save this medium from being childish and immature. We're still in the banal and simple phase of "if the core mechanics isn't fun, I don't care if the story is amazing" which is what is destroying games with all of their forced co-op and multiplayer shit.

I don't know. Aping movies doesn't look like the right way to "save" video gaming. I agree with the general notion that it'd be nice to have games with characters and plotlines that are a little bit more than your average Saturday morning cartoon though. It'd be great if certain video games could integrate a proper story with good gameplay, but if I'd have to give up on one, it'd be story.

 

[Scythesurge]

There really shouldn't be a choice between having gameplay or story/immersion...for a high quality product there needs to be both. Of course, ultimately the thing that makes a game an actual game is its gameplay. So I think it is most important for the gameplay to be fun and/or engaging before having a well written/presented story.

But like I said, games should really have both at this point, there's no excuse.

 

[selig]

There really shouldn't be a choice between having gameplay or story/immersion...for a high quality product there needs to be both. Of course, ultimately the thing that makes a game an actual game is its gameplay. So I think it is most important for the gameplay to be fun and/or engaging before having a well written/presented story.

But like I said, games should really have both at this point, there's no excuse.

it´s "gameplay/immersion or story".

 

[Scythesurge]

it´s "gameplay/immersion or story".

Actually I think immersion is attributable to both gameplay and story, just more people around here seem to think it's attributable to just story.

 

[runnin_blue]

Okay guys. I'm going out on a limb here (or a finger as it were).

Feel free to LOL.

Check out all those lines in the orange part of the background. Kind of looks like a fingerprint?

I'm calling the Vitality Sensor will be able to read your fingerprints. No idea how this will affect / contribute to gameplay but interesting nonetheless.

I know, I know, utterly ridiculous but I'm bored (and a little drunk) and it passes the time to E3 quicker.

 

[Bentendo]

Okay guys. I'm going out on a limb here (or a finger as it were).

Feel free to LOL.

http://images.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/161450_S/Nintendo-Releases-New-Legend-of-Zelda-Wii-Teaser-Artwork.jpg[IMG]

Check out all those lines in the orange part of the background. Kind of looks like a fingerprint?

[B]I'm calling the Vitality Sensor will be able to read your fingerprints. No idea how this will affect / contribute to gameplay but interesting nonetheless.[/B]

I know, I know, utterly ridiculous but I'm bored and it passes the time to E3 quicker.[/QUOTE]

[B]MOTHER OF GOD.[/B]

 

[A.CHAP]

Really? Thats your argument? Also saying Nintendo doesnt invest significant money into the presentation of their major franchises outside of the Wii ___ stuff is pretty crazy.

I didnt say nintendo doesnt invest significant money into presentation, so dont make stuff up.

Guess i didnt get my point across well. Try again.

Some games have a lot invested in dramatic scripted sequences and apeing movies, and this is often the selling point more so than the gameplay.

Nintendo games strenghts lie in the gameplay and do not need to be carried by a compelling story.

Also games, like anything, are made to a budget. You want voice acting you got to make cuts somewhere I would think.

 

[Haunted]

Okay guys. I'm going out on a limb here (or a finger as it were).

Feel free to LOL.

Check out all those lines in the orange part of the background. Kind of looks like a fingerprint?

I'm calling the Vitality Sensor will be able to read your fingerprints. No idea how this will affect / contribute to gameplay but interesting nonetheless.

I know, I know, utterly ridiculous but I'm bored (and a little drunk) and it passes the time to E3 quicker.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Actually, I wouldn't mind the graphics to look like that artwork. Would be awesome.

 

[Danielsan]

I have to say, as much as I want to see the new Zelda I would almost love it more if Nintendo decided to not show it at E3.
The sheer amount of seething rage would be glorious. :lol

 

[Twig]

Many games are story first, Heavy Rain being the most recent example. Games like that is what is going to save this medium from being childish and immature. We're still in the banal and simple phase of "if the core mechanics isn't fun, I don't care if the story is amazing" which is what is destroying games with all of their forced co-op and multiplayer shit.

I never said or implied that story wasn't important.

But it is not the most important, and never will be. THAT mentality is what will ruin games. Because then they will no longer be games. They will be fucking interactive movies. See: Heavy Rain.

NOTE: I AM NOT SAYING HEAVY RAIN IS A BAD GAME. But fuck you and fuck all of your friends if you think it's going to save gaming. That is some ignorant shit right there.

Teehee!

 

[ReiGun]

Okay guys. I'm going out on a limb here (or a finger as it were).

Feel free to LOL.

http://images.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/161...es-New-Legend-of-Zelda-Wii-Teaser-Artwork.jpg

Check out all those lines in the orange part of the background. Kind of looks like a fingerprint?

I'm calling the Vitality Sensor will be able to read your fingerprints. No idea how this will affect / contribute to gameplay but interesting nonetheless.

I know, I know, utterly ridiculous but I'm bored (and a little drunk) and it passes the time to E3 quicker.

 

[beelzebozo]

It just boggles my mind how the difficulty and health system in a Zelda game is so much worse than say the Mario series. You start the game with same amount of health as the amount you end the game with, yet there's still a great difficulty curve that's both noticable, but also not aggravating. Would the last part of the Bowser fight in NSMBWii be as fun if there wasn't a lake of lava beneath you?

this is a great point, and makes me wonder if the heart containers--as much as i cling to them as a long-time fan of the series--aren't something of a crutch and a stand-in for creative challenges in boss and level design.

 

[Why would you do that?]

I agree with Twig.

Except for games that are supposed to be interactive storybooks... games aren't supposed to be interactive storybooks.

Zelda is especially not supposed to be one. Zelda was an adventure game with puzzles and little story, and what little story there was was introduced to give you a reason to adventure.

I'm not complaining about the level of story in Zelda games currently, but I will say that I hope they never take focus away from the fighting, action, and bosses, which is what Zelda is.

Even Majora's Mask, which I really do appreciate for the quests and stories, I don't like it as much as a lot of other Zelda games, because the quests are arguably the meat of the game, and many of them are just running from Point A to Point B, talking to people to advance a sub-plot.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f246/SpiritSword16/6g01bw9.gif

...Where is that from?

 

[ReiGun]

...Where is that from?

Some live action Sailor Moon tv show from a few years back.

 

[EatChildren]

Many games are story first, Heavy Rain being the most recent example. Games like that is what is going to save this medium from being childish and immature. We're still in the banal and simple phase of "if the core mechanics isn't fun, I don't care if the story is amazing" which is what is destroying games with all of their forced co-op and multiplayer shit.

Yes, Heavy Rain and its awkward sex scenes and average writing are going to save this medium from immaturity and childishness.

 

[Bentendo]

Can someone answer me a question I've had for quite some time: when the artwork for the game was revealed, I remember everyone saying how much older Link looked than in Twilight Princess, and while Miyamoto said he is older, I just don't see it in the art. When the press were talking about an older Link I was expecting a beard (

Spoiler

not really, but I was expecting something that made him look a wii (haha) bit different than TP Link

).

EDIT: Then again I also remember the press thinking that the girl was a Zora. WHAT?

 

[darkwings]

if the art from E3 2009 really is representative that Link will look like TP Link again I will be disappointed because I really want a new look. I mean, Nintendo has switched up the Link look a lot throughout the history and I by no means think TP Link is the ideal one.

 

[Vinterbird]

Yes, Heavy Rain and its awkward sex scenes and average writing are going to save this medium from immaturity and childishness.

It's a step in the right direction. Heavy Rain is far from perfect, but it shows that it can be done, and that games are ready to be more then Gears of War mature with tits, blood and fuckton of curse words.

Braid also showed that games can tell an amazing and emotional story through very simple means. There are more and more games of this kind coming, and hopefully there will be equally blockbusters (Gears) and interesting games (Braid/Heavy Rain).

I never said or implied that story wasn't important.

But it is not the most important, and never will be. THAT mentality is what will ruin games. Because then they will no longer be games. They will be fucking interactive movies. See: Heavy Rain.

NOTE: I AM NOT SAYING HEAVY RAIN IS A BAD GAME. But fuck you and fuck all of your friends if you think it's going to save gaming. That is some ignorant shit right there.

Teehee!

Again, to each their own. Interactive movies can be fun, see Heavy Rain. And games can do what games do best, mix story with gameplay - Deus Ex. Of course I would prefer if gameplay and story both could be amazing, but if I had the choice, story would come first for me personally.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Indeed. Also the FF games with Voiceacting the amount of NPCs and sidetrackstories have been reduced dramatically. Especially in FFX and FFXIII.


Pegasi

You know, I would love a Zelda and Fire Emblem crossover.

 

[Sadist]

Yeah Legend of Fire Emblem, an adventure starring Link and Ike in which both lose their most powerfull sword but Link finds Ragnell and Ike finds the Master Sword. So they need to find each other and the game is an action RPG and and and and

 

[selig]

if the art from E3 2009 really is representative that Link will look like TP Link again I will be disappointed because I really want a new look. I mean, Nintendo has switched up the Link look a lot throughout the history and I by no means think TP Link is the ideal one.

The new Link doesn´t look as different from TP as TP-Link compared to TWW-Link, but by no means does he look exactly like TP-Link. I prefer the new Link.

I thought about that today, if the artwork is really representative of Zelda Wii´s artstyle. And what´s pointing towards "yes" the strongest is the fact that the artwork isnt just showing Link, but it shows that girl, which is going to be an important part of the game. With such details on that artwork, I´d be really surprised if they changed the art style.

 

[aurto511]

He looks older but only by about 5-7 years more than in TP, it's not that noticeable in that pic or at all really.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Yeah Legend of Fire Emblem, an adventure starring Link and Ike in which both lose their most powerfull sword but Link finds Ragnell and Ike finds the Master Sword. So they need to find each other and the game is an action RPG and and and and

It should be an on-rails shooter developed by Treasure!

 

[ReiGun]

Yeah Legend of Fire Emblem, an adventure starring Link and Ike in which both lose their most powerfull sword but Link finds Ragnell and Ike finds the Master Sword. So they need to find each other and the game is an action RPG and and and and

This could work. I've always thought the Zelda series would benefit from more bromance.

 

[EatChildren]

It's a step in the right direction. Heavy Rain is far from perfect, but it shows that it can be done, and that games are ready to be more then Gears of War mature with tits, blood and fuckton of curse words.

Braid also showed that games can tell an amazing and emotional story through very simple means. There are more and more games of this kind coming, and hopefully there will be equally blockbusters (Gears) and interesting games (Braid/Heavy Rain).

And your Deus Ex example, along with plenty of other older games (eg: PlaneScape Torment), show that this 'maturity' you see as a positive direction has been around forever, and has arguably in no way shifted forward at the hands of something like Heavy Rain, or Braid, unless that shift consists of selling well.

While its fine to prioritise a quality story above all, if that's your preference, it seems as if you're implying that the lack of a story somehow defines a game as immature or childish, which is in my opinion an immature notion in itself.

EDIT: And stop using Gears as your example of modern 'maturity'. Adult content =/= mature content, as does mature content =/= adult content. Nobody in their right mind would argue Gears is mature in the way you're implying.

 

[Scythesurge]

It should be an on-rails shooter developed by Treasure!

I'd be down for anything made by Treasure!

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Stop overrating Treasure!!!!

They haven't made a great title since their last game.

 

[Roi]

Another cell-shaded Zelda would be great!

 

[Regulus Tera]

Stop overrating Treasure!!!!

They haven't made a great title since their last game.

Okay fine.

It should be a romantic simulation game by Naughty Dog.

 

[Sadist]

It should be an on-rails shooter developed by Treasure!

No you dope an on-rail slasher by Genius Sorority.

Or Tose

This could work. I've always thought the Zelda series would benefit from more bromance.

That would leave Soren kinda pissed of though

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I doubt we'll ever get another cel-shaded Zelda on consoles, not after Wind Waker's backlash.

It came at a bad time and basically confirmed all the "Nintendo is kiddy" complaints people had.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

I doubt we'll ever get another cel-shaded Zelda on consoles, not after Wind Waker's backlash.

It came at a bad time and basically confirmed all the "Nintendo is kiddy" complaints people had.

Or laughed in the face of all that.

 

[ReiGun]

No you dope an on-rail slasher by Genius Sorority.

Or Tose


That would leave Soren kinda pissed of though

He could be in too. make it 3-way. A Ménage à bro-is, if you will.

 

[Sadist]

He could be in too. make it 3-way. A Ménage à bro-is, if you will.

I'll start right now with the script :lol

 

[Regulus Tera]

I was gonna make a post whining about how all Nintendo threads eventually devolve into fanfiction, but then I realised this is partly my fault.

So I'll shut up now.

 

[Vinterbird]

And your Deus Ex example, along with plenty of other older games (eg: PlaneScape Torment), show that this 'maturity' you see as a positive direction has been around forever, and has arguably in no way shifted forward at the hands of something like Heavy Rain, or Braid, unless that shift consists of selling well.

While its fine to prioritise a quality story above all, if that's your preference, it seems as if you're implying that the lack of a story somehow defines a game as immature or childish, which is in my opinion an immature notion in itself.

EDIT: And stop using Gears as your example of modern 'maturity'. Adult content =/= mature content, as does mature content =/= adult content. Nobody in their right mind would argue Gears is mature in the way you're implying.

Gears tried to be mature with the Maria sub-plot, and by positive direction I do indeed mean selling well and getting picked up by the general gaming popolus, and not just being banished to a corner of GDC where everyone forgets about them half an hour after the GAF thread has been made.