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[Broken Arrow]

Here's what I think:

Non-linear gameplay
I don't know about that. I think it should be non-linear in parts. Like, after playing two linear levels, it'll be like "Choose 2 of these 3 temples in any order you want."

Agree, what I want is to feel very free to tackle the game as I want

A massive world
Not really. Twilight Princess was massive, but had little substance. If you tried to walk Hyrule Field in TP, you'd get bored quickly.

Here I was referring to a rich, fun, full of enemies and strange places, world. Not just an empty field.


Orchestrated music
Some orchestrated music would be nice. Like Mario Galaxy 2, where the right music is orchestrated and others are not.

Exactly. Some of the classic tunes can return in midi, but boss battles, and dungeons definitely need to be orchestrated.


No fucking gorons
No fucking Tinkle or Twinkle or whatever the fuck his name is
Tingle's good people. Also, while it's nice for Nintendo to introduce new races/people, they can use Gorons and Tingle again and I wouldn't care.

I would love to see new races. I'm just tired of gorons and zoras...

 

[Reknoc]

All I really want is a return of the Nintendo Gallery from Wind Waker, only much quicker to do.

 

[Version 3.0]

when I say the artwork on page 18 looks better than the crap we get now, it isn't due to nostalgia. The older Zelda artworks convey the feelings of what a fantasy world looks like.

I agree with your second sentence here, but the actual art is really crude and amateur-looking. The recent art is very professional-looking and polished, but also fits too nicely into the me-too lineup of 10,000 anime/manga works.

I think Zelda II and Link to the Past had the best art (not including that ugly stuff posted above). I mean the nice manual art, like this:

 

[Jarlaxle]

I'm not thrilled about it, (I was the one a few pages back hoping there'd be a way to map the sword to a button,) but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, as long as it's done well. If it's like WSR, that could be an amazing experience. But on the other hand, I never finished TP because I was annoyed at having to waggle to attack.

That's the sole reason you never finished the game? Why not just get it on GC then. It was a simple wrist flick which required barely any movement at all. I could understand some other reasons but this just seems a little ridiculous.

 

[Twig]

Yes it does.

No it doesn't.

I agree with your second sentence here, but the actual art is really crude and amateur-looking.

No it's not.

 

[Branduil]

I wouldn't mind a game more like SotC, but with enemies all over the overworld and full-scale dungeons.

I'd also like to see the dungeons changed up. For instance, you can beat part of a dungeon, move on to another dungeon, get an item in that new dungeon which unlocks an area in the previous dungeon. Sort of like Metroid but with an overworld.

 

[fredrancour]

I wonder how well RDR would've sold without a fleshed-out story or cutscenes... :lol.

From everything I've heard from my friends who bought it, just as well. They rave about the game but have not mentioned anything about the story. they talk about the various random crap to do and don't seem to care about the plot.

 

[Why would you do that?]

Exactly. Some of the classic tunes can return in midi, but boss battles, and dungeons definitely need to be orchestrated.

The dungeon themes will be awesome if they're orchestrated! I want them to move away from this [music link] and this [link] so badly and return to this [link] and this [link].

All I really want is a return of the Nintendo Gallery from Wind Waker, only much quicker to do.

See, that would be awesome. One of the things I was sad about Twilight Princess was no enemy profile information. Like, in OoT and MM, your fairy tells you about enemies, and in Wind Waker and Minish Cap, you have the gallery thing with information.

Actually, I really liked the way Capcom handled The Minish Cap. It wasn't afraid to be a little self-referential, so they'd say "Octoroks appeared in every Zelda game to date" and would also include a sound test.

 

[Branduil]

Yeah the boring ambient dungeon tracks need to die.

 

[beelzebozo]

See, that would be awesome. One of the things I was sad about Twilight Princess was no enemy profile information. Like, in OoT and MM, your fairy tells you about enemies, and in Wind Waker and Minish Cap, you have the gallery thing with information.

Actually, I really liked the way Capcom handled The Minish Cap. It wasn't afraid to be a little self-referential, so they'd say "Octoroks appeared in every Zelda game to date" and would also include a sound test.

"learning to like your like-like: a good guide to a bad pet" still cracks me up :lol

 

[MvmntInGrn]

I'd also like to see the dungeons changed up. For instance, you can beat part of a dungeon, move on to another dungeon, get an item in that new dungeon which unlocks an area in the previous dungeon. Sort of like Metroid but with an overworld.

I think this would frustrate many gamers, especially if its hard to tell whether or not you can proceed further.

One route they could take: From the start of the game, have 3 possible dungeons open to complete in any order you wish. If you do dungeon 1 first, you'll get an item that will help you get to dungeon 4, so after you are done with dungeon 1, you can go do dungeon 2, 3, or 4.

If you start with dungeon 2, you get an item that lets you into dungeon 6, so after dungeon 2 you have dungeon 1, 3, 6 open to you.

This allows them to add new items and offer some choice in what you do next, but never have anyone stuck partway in a dungeon they cannot complete (though the items obtained in dungeons 1, 2,or 3 could only be required in the dungeons they open, or else the same problem creeps up. It could also lead to very useless items.)

Just a thought.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I'm with Haunted and Jason.

That old school artwork kicks the living shit out of that extra clean 90's bs art.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Non-linear gameplay
I don't know about that. I think it should be non-linear in parts. Like, after playing two linear levels, it'll be like "Choose 2 of these 3 temples in any order you want."

Agree, what I want is to feel very free to tackle the game as I want

A massive world
Not really. Twilight Princess was massive, but had little substance. If you tried to walk Hyrule Field in TP, you'd get bored quickly.

Here I was referring to a rich, fun, full of enemies and strange places, world. Not just an empty field.


Orchestrated music
Some orchestrated music would be nice. Like Mario Galaxy 2, where the right music is orchestrated and others are not.

Exactly. Some of the classic tunes can return in midi, but boss battles, and dungeons definitely need to be orchestrated.


No fucking gorons
No fucking Tinkle or Twinkle or whatever the fuck his name is
Tingle's good people. Also, while it's nice for Nintendo to introduce new races/people, they can use Gorons and Tingle again and I wouldn't care.

I would love to see new races. I'm just tired of gorons and zoras...

why exactly do you want new races? Don't you want to see how each race changes over time, in one solide universe?

I mean, wasn't it cool seeing how the Zora's evolved in bird people? If they had just created another race for the sake of creating a new race, we would have missed that bit. Or how the Kakiri evolved?

I'd like to see the Anouki explained a little more. They're cunning little devils with lots of vices, something you don't see much in Zelda.

I don't know, it just seems better to not introduce new races, but rather change older races and evolve them. It adds more character than just adding bird people because you need mailmen.

 

[GeneralIroh]

I think the old LOZ artwork was alright for its time but looks like shit now.
Its cute but it lacks range and there isn't much you can do with something that looks underdeveloped.

In terms of tone I prefer something in the middle. I don't want anything that is too cutesy or dark.
I think a great example would be Avatar: The Last Airbender. I love the variety of cultures in the show and there a nice balance of of humor and strife in the plot.

 

[Version 3.0]

No it's not.

Hell, yes, it is. I've done better art myself, and I'm a terrible artist. I can understand if you say the crudeness is its appeal, but don't deny it.

 

[Hiltz]

I'm just going to be disappointed if Nintendo resorts to another tired and shallow gimmick like the underwhelming Wolf Link in Twilight Princess, tedious sailing in Wind Waker, or the dull train ride in Spirit tracks.

 

[Reknoc]

See, that would be awesome. One of the things I was sad about Twilight Princess was no enemy profile information. Like, in OoT and MM, your fairy tells you about enemies, and in Wind Waker and Minish Cap, you have the gallery thing with information.

Exactly. It also gave some nice detail about all the NPCs, fleshed them out abit without overdoing it.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

"learning to like your like-like: a good guide to a bad pet" still cracks me up :lol

married to the moblin

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

People are still clamoring over this crap ten years later?

Firstly, I doubt you could have done anything you mentioned in this game if it had come out. You're basing these gameplay concepts off of a cutscene. Secondly, the characters and textures look terrible compared to either of the Gamecube Zelda games. I don't understand how anything in that demo can be appealing in 2010 after they already gave us a more polished version of this game in the form of Twilight Princess.

I haven't liked that video since they showed Wind Waker in its final form. It's been used for years as an example of the "perfect [mature] Zelda" and it's pure fantasy based on a likely hastily put together thirty seconds of video. We don't even know for sure this was anything more than a tech demo. It's ridiculous that people still have a boner over this.

Clamoring? No, merely pointing to an example. You could base gameplay concepts on a cutscene if you wanted to. Who said anything about textures, its about the way the action flows specifically. Just because it was a tech demo doesn't downplay what is possible, especially with the hardware of the Wii vs 10 years ago. Plenty of what went down in the Wind Waker preview video was not game play so your argument doesn't have much to stand on. No one was controlling Link's eyebrow when he decided to jump on the chandelier. The tech demo is no more fantasy than the wind waker cinematics.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Man, I need to get me a GBA SP. I've still got Link's Awakening and both the Oracles games sitting in my backlog.

 

[beelzebozo]

married to the moblin

:lol

YES

see, i don't know. i don't like the idea that zelda would ever be so serious that it couldn't use something like this.

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

Hell, yes, it is. I've done better art myself, and I'm a terrible artist. I can understand if you say the crudeness is its appeal, but don't deny it.

Well, if you have then you are a talented fellow. I would tend to say the "crudeness" lends itself to the colors used, not the level of detail. I think he knows how to lay out the picture so to speak, each one is more of a "scene" vs a random picture of link just standing there.
There's just a lot going on in most of them even if it's subtle. Perhaps the plain palatte was intentional, but I'll take it over the more "Cartoonish" or big eyed Manga as well.

 

[selig]

Man, I need to get me a GBA SP. I've still got Link's Awakening and both the Oracles games sitting in my backlog.

You mean you...have never...played Links Awakening?!

omg, I´m so jealous of you. Have some of the greatest fun in your video gaming history.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

You mean you...have never...played Links Awakening?!

omg, I´m so jealous of you. Have some of the greatest fun in your video gaming history.

I've actually played through the first two or so dungeons... on the GBA player on my Gamecube. Thing is, these games just beg to be taken portable and I have no way of doing that.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I'm just going to be disappointed if Nintendo resorts to another tired and shallow gimmick like the underwhelming Wolf Link in Twilight Princess, tedious sailing in Wind Waker, or the dull train ride in Spirit tracks.

Like riding a horse as one of your major gimmicks, and then the return of that horse for part 2.

Or maybe going into the exact same map with a few new things added 2 or 3 times in the series.

Or time travel, that hasn't been used by Zelda more than 6 times already, and the main focus of 2 or 3 games in the series.


Basically...
I think you're just overly critical of the new Zelda's because they aren't LttP or Oot 1.5. I like that they try and expand the items and powers of Link. Plus King of the Red Lions was badass. He can kick Epona's butt any day. I mean, I can sit here and name off "tired and shallow" gimmicks of every Zelda. None of these are really my opinion, btw

Zelda: Repetitive music, cheap item system is just a glorified gimmick. The ability to save is a tedious and dull concept, real games have to be replayed multiple times!
Zelda II: Reuses Zelda's overworld. Shotty level up system and boring, tedious battle system.
Link to the Past: Nintendo was just lazy and changed like 2 pixels of the map and called it a new world.
Ocarina of Time: see above, replace pixels with polygons. AKA LttP in 3D
Majora's Mask: Setting a time limit on gameplay made it impossible to explore. The different races were boring and rehashed from Ocarina of Time
Link's Awakening: Nintendo shouldn't have to remake a game a second time. Did they not make enough money? They honestly expect me to just buy ANOTHER repackaged Link to the Past?
Oracle of Ages, Oracle of Seasons: Two versions? Is Zelda turning into Pokemon now? The two game system is tried and true, and overused. Cast these games off as cheap cash ins
Wind Waker: Yawn. Kiddy trash. Looked at the box, never played it, never will
Four Swords: It had to be packaged with Link to the Past, that really shows Nintendo's confidence in it. How am I expected to get 3 other people together to play?
Four Swords Adventure: Overpriced. This is the 4th or 5th Link to the Past, I lost track?
Minish Cap: Kiddy graphics again, pass. Tired method of shrinking, what is this, Alice in Wonderland? Where's Ganon anyway?
Twilight Princess: Becoming a wolf has been in every Zelda so far, it's so tiring. Get a new concept Nintendo!
DS Zeldas: LOL TOUCHSCREEN, I'm not touching this, no pun intended.


See, I can be overly critical of every game (as far as I remember) in the series. It doesn't mean I'm right, nor are these actually my opinions. But really now, were those things you listed outright broken? And we're talking about some of the highest rated games of the last decade here.

 

[SuperAndroid17]

Yeah the boring ambient dungeon tracks need to die.

like which one?

 

[The Technomancer]

Man, I need to get me a GBA SP. I've still got Link's Awakening and both the Oracles games sitting in my backlog.

I've never gotten a chance to play LA either, shamefully, but I think that the Oracles games are my personal favorite Zeldas. They hit every element I like about the series perfectly.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

like which one?

The ones I don't remember because they were boring and ambient.

TP had some fantastic dungeon music (Arbiter's Grounds, for instance), but some of it was kind of bland and forgettable.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

The ones I don't remember because they were boring and ambient.

TP had some fantastic dungeon music (Arbiter's Grounds, for instance), but some of it was kind of bland and forgettable.

Part of the reason some of the older dungeon themes might stick in your head are because they're used in more than one dungeon.

 

[Vanille]

The dungeon themes will be awesome if they're orchestrated! I want them to move away from this [music link] and this [link] so badly and return to this [link] and this [link].

Twilight Princess was kinda hit and miss in regards to the dungeon themes. As bad as Goron Mines was, it had the awesome City in the Sky theme, which imo is pretty much equal to the Forest Temple theme.

 

[WillyFive]

Part of the reason some of the older dungeon themes might stick in your head are because they're used in more than one dungeon.

Yeah.

Which I disliked.

I disliked having the same dungeon music for every dungeon.

Twilight Princess's unique music for each dungeon is a must.

 

[Branduil]

I think this would frustrate many gamers, especially if its hard to tell whether or not you can proceed further.

One route they could take: From the start of the game, have 3 possible dungeons open to complete in any order you wish. If you do dungeon 1 first, you'll get an item that will help you get to dungeon 4, so after you are done with dungeon 1, you can go do dungeon 2, 3, or 4.

If you start with dungeon 2, you get an item that lets you into dungeon 6, so after dungeon 2 you have dungeon 1, 3, 6 open to you.

This allows them to add new items and offer some choice in what you do next, but never have anyone stuck partway in a dungeon they cannot complete (though the items obtained in dungeons 1, 2,or 3 could only be required in the dungeons they open, or else the same problem creeps up. It could also lead to very useless items.)

Just a thought.

It wouldn't be any more frustrating than Metroid. There would still be a "goal" you can accomplish in the dungeon, it's just there are unaccessible areas you can't reach at the time. Later you get an item and if you return to that dungeon you can explore additional areas.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

You know in Oot you can grab the item from the level and just leave the level and you can move on. Most of the next levels are unlock soley using the item found in the previous dungeon.
You could also do this in the latter half of Link to the Past

However, that also makes a somewhat disjoint storyline. It's difficult to ask for total non-linearity and voice acting at the same time. I feel like having a non-linear Zelda would kind of hurt the story a little bit.

 

[Rich!]

Twilight Princess was kinda hit and miss in regards to the dungeon themes. As bad as Goron Mines was, it had the awesome City in the Sky theme, which imo is pretty much equal to the Forest Temple theme.

Yeah, the Sky Temple's music was incredible. Really dream-like stuff.

Ocarina of Time's Forest Temple is still the best though. I love when you get to the outdoor courtyard section in it, and you've got that cloudy sky above you. Really atmospheric, in the best possible way.

I disliked having the same dungeon music for every dungeon.

Twilight Princess's unique music for each dungeon is a must.

Every single Zelda game since (and including) Link's Awakening has had unique music for each dungeon, not sure if you remember that. Only the first three Zelda games repeated the same themes for the dungeon stages - they each had two different dungeon themes.

 

[Why would you do that?]

"learning to like your like-like: a good guide to a bad pet" still cracks me up :lol

I remember something Minish Cap said about a fruit lady and her not carrying tomatoes or something. I found that extremely funny when I was younger.

Exactly. It also gave some nice detail about all the NPCs, fleshed them out abit without overdoing it.

Well, I like reading things like that about random characters and NPCs. You know how Paper Mario 1 and 2 both have a Goomba which you can talk to about every single place and every single person and enemy? I had a field day with that. Most of my Paper Mario experience is walk in town -> talk to goomba about town -> talk to person -> talk to goomba about person -> rinse and repeat.

Maybe it was a little overdone, but I really enjoyed it nonetheless.

see, i don't know. i don't like the idea that zelda would ever be so serious that it couldn't use something like this.

Yeah, I totally agree with you here.

To be fair, even Twilight Princess did have some more quirky moments (like Malo Mart), but the dialog never went into levels like in Minish Cap, which was a less serious game in general.

 

[gamergirly]

I'm just going to be disappointed if Nintendo resorts to another tired and shallow gimmick like the underwhelming Wolf Link in Twilight Princess, tedious sailing in Wind Waker, or the dull train ride in Spirit tracks.

There's nothing wrong with Link using other means of transportation(outside of his own legs), as long as it has a LONG MEANINGFUL purpose in the game. Sailing was great in TWW but got cut short by warping. Epona was great in TP but she got outsourced by the Wolf. The Wolf was great in TP but the world was barren and noneventful after a certain point. Just needs to be done right.

I guess if you think about it, many games allow you a way to expedite tredding through tedious areas that you have completed. If there was a REAL and challenging reason to go back to these areas then Nintendo could do away with a "major" source of moving about for Link. Riding a horse or sailing on a boat would only be allowed within certain points of the game and confined to certain areas. Then it would be looked at differently

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yeah, the Sky Temple's music was incredible. Really dream-like stuff.

Ocarina of Time's Forest Temple is still the best though. I love when you get to the outdoor courtyard section in it, and you've got that cloudy sky above you. Really atmospheric, in the best possible way.

See, calling them Temples instead of Dungeons is what makes a lot of OoT's Temples really awesome.

-Because all but 1 (Shadow Temple) actually looks like an ancient place of worship. With the courtyards of the forest temple, it looks like an old monastary that has been overrun with ghosts and has let nature take its course.


This is something that was somewhat lost on newer temples. The ones in Windwaker come close, but the ones in OoT just felt like places of worship.

I hope for more templey temples. If not, call them dungeons or caves. Note: Dodongo's Cavern did not look like a temple, the Fire Temple did (alters, chambers, rooms, etc). Let's not call every "major" level a temple when it isn't really a place of worship

 

[RawkHawk2010]

Regarding dungeon music in the new Zelda, Nintendo should take a second look at Stone Tower Temple.

 

[Rich!]

See, calling them Temples instead of Dungeons is what makes a lot of OoT's Temples really awesome.

-Because all but 1 (Shadow Temple) actually looks like an ancient place of worship. With the courtyards of the forest temple, it looks like an old monastary that has been overrun with ghosts and has let nature take its course.


This is something that was somewhat lost on newer temples. The ones in Windwaker come close, but the ones in OoT just felt like places of worship.

I hope for more templey temples. If not, call them dungeons or caves. Note: Dodongo's Cavern did not look like a temple, the Fire Temple did (alters, chambers, rooms, etc). Let's not call every "major" level a temple when it isn't really a place of worship

I can definitely see where you're coming from there. I'd say the Shadow Temple was designed to be seen as a place of worship though, but of the dark magic variety. You've got plenty of altars and crypts in there to support that theory, as well as placards and various torture/sacrificial shit.

 

[WillyFive]

Every single Zelda game since (and including) Link's Awakening has had unique music for each dungeon, not sure if you remember that. Only the first three Zelda games repeated the same themes for the dungeon stages - they each had two different dungeon themes.

Phantom Hourglass

 

[Rich!]

Phantom Hourglass

Couldn't get into the DS games (hated them, actually), so I wouldn't know.

Either way, that's one game which breaks the pattern out of eight that use unique music for each dungeon/temple.

 

[Twig]

Hell, yes, it is. I've done better art myself, and I'm a terrible artist. I can understand if you say the crudeness is its appeal, but don't deny it.

It is crude, but it is an incredibly far cry from bad. Guess you're one of those sharp knees types.

 

[SuperAndroid17]

Goron mines felt like a homage to the OoT style of music ( Midi vocals)

City in the sky and stone temple are amazing themes. TP had some pretty good tracks but the forest/fire/water temple themes pale in comparison to the their counterparts ( OoT )

 

[Version 3.0]

Well, if you have then you are a talented fellow. I would tend to say the "crudeness" lends itself to the colors used, not the level of detail. I think he knows how to lay out the picture so to speak, each one is more of a "scene" vs a random picture of link just standing there.
There's just a lot going on in most of them even if it's subtle. Perhaps the plain palatte was intentional, but I'll take it over the more "Cartoonish" or big eyed Manga as well.

Well, that's hardly a fair comparison. Whether a picture is a scene or just a character has nothing to do with which is a better art style. It's simply what Nintendo asked the artist to do. I agree, it's much cooler to have a frozen frame of a tense battle or creepy corridor than Link and Epona smiling and posing. But that doesn't mean picture A is a better version of Link.

Let's take a look:

This is a great scene concept, but a bad picture. Link's proportions are awful. He has a missing lower torso, feet that are scribbled as lumps of coal, jowels on his otherwise poorly featured face, and a horribly flat-looking arm with a distorted doodle for a hand (what's with the double-width middle finger?). The enemy knight--clearly the focus of the picture--looks better, but still was drawn with a poor sense of perspective, especially the axe in the background.

More bad spacial perspective in this one. Link's apparently holding his sword in his left armpit rather than his left arm. Speaking of that, it looks a bit bulky. The thing in the background has some problems, too (look closely at its right hand, for example), but mostly it gets off the hook because we have no frame of reference. Again, it's a great scene concept and really conveys the emotion of traversing a dungeon while on the lookout for ambushes.

Now here's a piece of recent art, from Twilight Princess. It's a poster you can get from Club Nintendo.

This is fantastically drawn, at least on the technical side. Say what you will about the scene itself (I'd say it's a primarily functional collage meant to cram the characters in one picture), but this has none of the types of problems I bitched about up above. I like the scenes, too, but get this TP artist to draw those scenes, and they'd be really fantastic. Get that artist to draw this poster, and it'd be trash.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Couldn't get into the DS games (hated them, actually), so I wouldn't know.

Either way, that's one game which breaks the pattern out of eight that use unique music for each dungeon/temple.

Phantom Hourglass missed out on so much because it was so silent all the time. I loved the game, but the atmosphere was a bit lacking.

 

[GeneralIroh]

TWW had some really bad dungeon music as well.

 

[Pseudo_Sam]

TWW had some really bad dungeon music as well.

No.

 

[Rich!]

TWW had some really bad dungeon music as well.

Wind Waker had tower of the gods, which was a great theme.

 

[Pseudo_Sam]

Wind Waker had tower of the gods, which was a great theme.

Forbidden Woods remains one of my favorite ambient tracks. Soo good.

 

[Rich!]

Forbidden Woods remains one of my favorite ambient tracks. Soo good.

Love that one too. One of the latter two temples' music (can't remember if it was earth or wind) was also pretty decent.

And just listening to Majora's Mask OST again, I've kinda noticed that Stone Tower Temple is the only decent one of the four IMO. Unless you count the castle of Ikana, which is pretty awesome too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEBVLW_7-yI