Support NeoGAF

[James Scott]

Despite being very interested in the shared library ecosystem...I wonder if the new Mario Kart game will look as nice as MK8.
That's probably the most concerning thing, I think.
Zelda could be console exclusive but I think MK and Mario will be shared. MK has admittedly never been about the graphics but MK8 looks really really nice so it would be a shame if it gets downgraded a generation later.

It's pretty common for Game Freak to skip a year during a generation. Despite what the western launch dates might have you believe, Pokemon really has never been fully annual.

Fair enough.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Despite being very interested in the shared library ecosystem...I wonder if the new Mario Kart game will look as nice as MK8.
That's probably the most concerning thing, I think.
Zelda could be console exclusive but I think MK and Mario will be shared. MK has admittedly never been about the graphics but MK8 looks really really nice so it would be a shame if it gets downgraded a generation later.

Fair enough.

Shared ecosystem doesn't mean that games will play exactly the same across the form factors. They could scale them like PC games if they wanted to.

 

[atbigelow]

If we're expecting Wii U levels of power in the NX handheld, I think something close to Mario Kart 8 on handheld would be fantastic. 540p would allow them that.

 

[10k]

If we're expecting Wii U levels of power in the NX handheld, I think something close to Mario Kart 8 on handheld would be fantastic. 540p would allow them that.

Maybe when Iwata said absorbing the Wii U architecture he meant the handheld? Wii U power levels in a handheld form at 540p with ports of some of the finer Wii U games would be awesome.

 

[AppleSautts]

Assuming the shared library b/w console and handheld via gamecards becomes true, how would Nintendo do the pricing for the games? I always thought the biggest advantage handhelds had over consoles was that the games were cheaper. If the people who only wanted the NX handheld saw that the games cost $50-$60, I'd imagine many of them would be turned off from getting it (especially parents buying for their kids). After thinking on it for quite a bit, I really couldn't think of any good solutions. Here are some of the options I could think of with their downsides (NX Home = home console; NX Go = handheld):

1. $40 retail for the gamecard. Works on both NX Home and Go, but if you want to take full advantage the NX Home's extra power, you'll need to download the extra visual assets from the eshop for $20 bringing the total price of both console and handheld versions to the standard $60. The obvious killer to this won't work well with the people w/ slow internet and/or data caps.

2. Split the difference and go with $50 retail for the gamecard which includes the extra visual assets to take advantage of the extra power for NX Home. Still pricey for those who only have the handheld, but hopefully it won't have too much of an impact on sales. A good deal for those who just have NX Home or both.

3. Sell 2 retail versions of the gamecard: $40 for one for NX Go only (no extra assets for NX Home) and $60 for one for NX Home + Go (with assets for NX Home). Downside is that you'll be needing double to shelf space. Also, if you buy the Go exclusive gamecard and get an NX Home later, you'll be out of luck unless they adopt strategy #1 which has its own downside.

4. $60 for the gamecard which includes all the assets for NX Home. Pretty expensive for those who only have NX Go.


So yeah, I'm kind of at a loss for what Nintendo should do if they really plan on doing shared libraries for both NX versions.

 

[Zoon]

If the SCD/cloud gets utilised, what then?It would mean that you could play with the best graphics even at the handheld.Would you have to pay for both versions even if you only have the handheld?Would Nintendo "block" you from using an SCD/the cloud if you bought the handheld version?
That's why I believe that they will sell one version of the game at 50-60$ and let you download any additional assets.They will justify the price by saying that you can play the same game as the home console by using SCD/cloud.
The problem here is what will the 3rd parties do If they want to sell a game that does not scale down to the handheld.Forcing them to make both versions will probably not be accepted.Who knows...Maybe they'll make a deal to release a digital version (at a lower price) only accessible from the home console.

 

[James Scott]

Shared ecosystem doesn't mean that games will play exactly the same across the form factors. They could scale them like PC games if they wanted to.

I guess, depends on how they handle it.
I imagine it's more that they make a portable version and up port without compressed textures and in HD. Maybe some nicer shaders and particle effects.
It would likely at least hold back the scope of the games, I guess.
But if they can get something similar to Wii U's MK8 in 1080p and nicer shadders I guess I'd be okay with that.
The handheld has to be more powerful than the Wii and Galaxy looked great on that, so maybe the next 3D mario could look really good as well.
Would probably help if I knew more about what I was talking about when it comes down to specs, but I imagine if they got really nice shaders it could make up for low polygons and it could result in very nice looking stylized games

 

[Graphics Horse]

Maybe when Iwata said absorbing the Wii U architecture he meant the handheld?

He meant both handheld and console, if you can find the quote.

 

[madstarr12]

I guess, depends on how they handle it.
I imagine it's more that they make a portable version and up port without compressed textures and in HD. Maybe some nicer shaders and particle effects.
It would likely at least hold back the scope of the games, I guess.
But if they can get something similar to Wii U's MK8 in 1080p and nicer shadders I guess I'd be okay with that.
The handheld has to be more powerful than the Wii and Galaxy looked great on that, so maybe the next 3D mario could look really good as well.
Would probably help if I knew more about what I was talking about when it comes down to specs, but I imagine if they got really nice shaders it could make up for low polygons and it could result in very nice looking stylized games

I think the worst part about this, is that games will be limited to something within the range of the Handheld device. Say that it's roughly Wii U power, games cannot be much more complex than Wii U games, even for the Console. The only differences will be maybe texture quality and a few graphics effects. Look at the difference between Mario Kart Wii and MK8, that huge boost in power caused night-and-day differences in overall presentation. Courses look so lively with so much going on, with all these animations floating around compared to the more stale older Mario Kart games. Unfortunately, a shared library for games like those will mean that we won't see a huge boost in scope and complexity for games that are intended to be "cross-play". It'll be upsetting if this is what they end up doing to games that have received such make-overs due to the hardware power boost. We will need to wait until their next-next Handheld releases for any generational changes.

....of course, the whole shared library thing needs to be true first before talking about such things.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

The saddest part of all this is people trying to come up with names for the NX. Most of them sound so fan made.

 

[Malus]

so maybe the next 3D mario could look really good as well.

I'm not worried about Mario.

If there's a franchise I can see being more simple looking despite the hardware its Animal Crossing, but I'd probably think that regardless of this shared library stuff.

However, I'm definitely not expecting franchises that appeared on Wii U to get visual downgrades going to NX home console.

 

[James Scott]

I think the worst part about this, is that games will be limited to something within the range of the Handheld device. Say that it's roughly Wii U power, games cannot be much more complex than Wii U games, even for the Console. The only differences will be maybe texture quality and a few graphics effects. Look at the difference between Mario Kart Wii and MK8, that huge boost in power caused night-and-day differences in overall presentation. Courses look so lively with so much going on, with all these animations floating around compared to the more stale older Mario Kart games. Unfortunately, a shared library for games like those will mean that we won't see a huge boost in scope and complexity for games that are intended to be "cross-play". It'll be upsetting if this is what they end up doing to games that have received such make-overs due to the hardware power boost. We will need to wait until their next-next Handheld releases for any generational changes.
....of course, the whole shared library thing needs to be true first before talking about such things.

For the games Nintendo wants to make, they usually don't need to go all out which is why they keep releasing weaker hardware.
From the entire Wii U library, the only games I think would be very difficult to adapt to the handheld would be Zelda U and X. For the other franchises we likely won't see a big leap in quality for a lot of those franchises, but it should also mean that they'll invest more on the portable side to get very impressive games on the handheld that push the hardware and we get more games per platform as a whole which is a worthy trade off.
With a lot of Wii U games running at 720p, if we can get something very close on the handheld and then the console is powerful enough to run those games at 1080p it would seem like a nice step up especially if most games try to be 1080p 60fps.
The more optimistic side would hope major releases have a lot more effort put into the console versions at full HD/60fps but I can also see lazier ports (like those that don't care about the console release much/expect most of their sales on the handheld) to be just the portable version on the TV maybe at a higher resolution.
Probably interesting to see how Nintendo handles it and how 3rd parties will as well

 

[madstarr12]

I'm not worried about Mario.

If there's a franchise I can see being more simple looking despite the hardware its Animal Crossing, but I'd probably think that regardless of this shared library stuff.

However, I'm definitely not expecting franchises that appeared on Wii U to get visual downgrades going to NX home console.

The differences, if there is a shared library, between the Handheld and console will be like Twilight Princess vs TPHD. Lower-quality textures, lower resolution, lower quality Shadows etc for the handheld vs the higher quality textures, higher resolution, higher q Shadows, for the Console. It's still the same engine though, so there wouldnt be generational differences, and the geometry may not change all that much. I'd say Wii U-graphics at higher resolution will be the minimum we can expect. Wii U graphics are fine, but there's a lot that can be done with stronger hardware, even on Nintendo's games.

For the games Nintendo wants to make, they usually don't need to go all out which is why they keep releasing weaker hardware.

Well, certain games like Splatoon could use quite a bit of improvements that stronger hardware can provide. More players and more "things" going on can definitely lead to more interesting gameplay mechanics. Can't do much upgrades like those on similar-powered hardware. Star Fox looks bland and empty in many places, likely due to limitations in hardware. Stronger hardware could have alleviated this. Of course, the removal of the 2nd screen could have as well, but stronger hardware could have done both keeping the 2nd screen, and make the game appear more lively.

 

[blitzwolf215]

With the shared library thing, I still think there are going to be games exclusive to either the console or handheld. They can make games that use the strengths of each system in addition to making games that can be played across both.

 

[Neoxon]

With the shared library thing, I still think there are going to be games exclusive to either the console or handheld. They can make games that use the strengths of each system in addition to making games that can be played across both.

I'm not sure about handheld exclusives (there wouldn't be much of a point), but maybe console exclusives if the game's concept can't be scaled down.

 

[Malus]

The differences, if there is a shared library, between the Handheld and console will be like Twilight Princess vs TPHD. Lower-quality textures, lower resolution, lower quality Shadows etc for the handheld vs the higher quality textures, higher resolution, higher q Shadows, for the Console. It's still the same engine though, so there wouldnt be generational differences, and the geometry may not change all that much. I'd say Wii U-graphics at higher resolution will be the minimum we can expect. Wii U graphics are fine, but there's a lot that can be done with stronger hardware, even on Nintendo's games.

I could see some games being built with the handheld in mind, and ported to console in that sort of fashion. Stuff like Pokemon and Animal Crossing and some others perhaps. But I'd also expect to see Nintendo titles built from the ground up to take advantage of the more powerful hardware.

 

[James Scott]

I'm not worried about Mario.

If there's a franchise I can see being more simple looking despite the hardware its Animal Crossing, but I'd probably think that regardless of this shared library stuff.

However, I'm definitely not expecting franchises that appeared on Wii U to get visual downgrades going to NX home console.

Here's hoping! I imagine they can't make a game that looks less impressive than 3D World (which is a nice looking game but it doesn't impress)
3D land was a very nice looking game but I think 3D World suffered from the multiplayer aspect. The character models for the playable characters looked very plastic-y and too simple likely to allow for 4 players+cherry power up at the same time.
I'm pretty sure a game like Pikmin 3 would work and look nice on the handheld. Not sure if the screen is too small, but they can probably make it work more than on the 3DS.
Hyrule Warriors wasn't much of a looker in the first place, but it'll definitely come back. Maybe more stylized like the 3DS game to fit the Zelda franchise better.
Any platformer would likely translate very well to the handheld with the likes of DKCTF and Yarn Yoshi. Maybe without the fur effects.
I wonder if Bayonetta is doable, seems less intensive than Zelda U but it relies on higher frame rates with a lot going on the screen.
If Nintendo has anything more ambitious in mind they can either wait for a new handheld revision or keep it console exclusive.

I'm not sure about handheld exclusives (there wouldn't be much of a point), but maybe console exclusives if the game's concept can't be scaled down.

Yeah, I imagine the smaller price tag should be enough of a selling point for the handheld.
Anything they give the console could be added into newer version of the handheld such as new virtual consoles (Gamecube/Dreamcast)
I do wonder if they should release revisions often in order to keep sales up and keep hardware moving forward.
Could be one ever other year for the handheld. Right now it's one every year and a half (3DS>3DSXL) so maybe they can release a slight revision every year and an update the following one. Not sure, probably not best to wait too long and have the technology age quickly like 3DS

 

[ekim]

A fully fledged 3D Pokemon RPG on NX would sure move a lot of Units. I don't know why they didn't have done this for WiiU. Better late than never tho.

 

[blitzwolf215]

I'm not sure about handheld exclusives (there wouldn't be much of a point), but maybe console exclusives if the game's concept can't be scaled down.

If the NX console doesn't have a touchscreen in it's controller there could be a need. Plus Gamefreak has said they want to keep the main games on handhelds. Even if its possible to cross play, the developers would still need to put in the work to make it happen and Gamefreak might not want to bother. I doubt Nintendo will force developers to make all games playable on both systems.

 

[Neoxon]

A fully fledged 3D Pokemon RPG on NX would sure move a lot of Units. I don't know why they didn't have done this for WiiU. Better late than never tho.

Because Game Freak prefers to stay on handhelds (or more specifically in the context of the NX Platform, target handhelds). Granted, all NX Handheld games will probably be playable on the NX Console, but don't expect Game Freak to go out of their way to do anything special for whatever game their making (Example: Gen VII) when played on the NX Console.

If the NX console doesn't have a touchscreen in it's controller there could be a need. Plus Gamefreak has said they want to keep the main games on handhelds. Even if its possible to cross play, the developers would still need to put in the work to make it happen and Gamefreak might not want to bother. I doubt Nintendo will force developers to make all games playable on both systems.

But the point is that getting games targeted at the handheld to work on the console would take next to no effort. Bare minimum, they'd have to upscale the game & call it a day.

 

[madstarr12]

With the shared library thing, I still think there are going to be games exclusive to either the console or handheld. They can make games that use the strengths of each system in addition to making games that can be played across both.

I think that simpler games like Animal Crossing, Mario vs. DK, 2D platformers, Pokemon, Brain Age (if that's still alive then), rhythm games, etc should be the only ones that are cross-play. Action games that are faster paced should be kept separate. And if either the Console or Handheld has some sort of gimmick that's exclusive to each device, they can design games exclusive to that device, around that gimmick.

It's hard to imagine that they'd have the entire library shared, because that will definitely make the home Console pointless. They had might as well do that docking thing so many talk about if all games are shared.

 

[Malus]

Here's hoping! I imagine they can't make a game that looks less impressive than 3D World (which is a nice looking game but it doesn't impress)
3D land was a very nice looking game but I think 3D World suffered from the multiplayer aspect. The character models for the playable characters looked very plastic-y and too simple likely to allow for 4 players+cherry power up at the same time.
I'm pretty sure a game like Pikmin 3 would work and look nice on the handheld. Not sure if the screen is too small, but they can probably make it work more than on the 3DS.
Hyrule Warriors wasn't much of a looker in the first place, but it'll definitely come back. Maybe more stylized like the 3DS game to fit the Zelda franchise better.
Any platformer would likely translate very well to the handheld with the likes of DKCTF and Yarn Yoshi. Maybe without the fur effects.
I wonder if Bayonetta is doable, seems less intensive than Zelda U but it relies on higher frame rates with a lot going on the screen.

3D World looking 'unimpressive' is down to art more than anything imo. I personally thought it looked great, but there's no doubt they went with a very clean and straightforward look that people saw as a step back from the bombastic "MARIO IN SPACE" theme from Galaxy and the charm of Isle Delfino. The effects/lighting/shadows/textures all running at smooth 60 fps was very visually appealing to me though.

The characters themselves looking simple is just down to the cartoony aesthetic more than anything. They made Mario look more realistic on Wii in Brawl but that's clearly not the look they were going for in 3D World. I doubt it was due to hardware limitation.

 

[Neoxon]

I think that simpler games like Animal Crossing, Mario vs. DK, 2D platformers, Pokemon, Brain Age (if that's still alive then), rhythm games, etc should be the only ones that are cross-play. Action games that are faster paced should be kept separate. And if either the Console or Handheld has some sort of gimmick that's exclusive to each device, they can design games exclusive to that device, around that gimmick.

It's hard to imagine that they'd have the entire library shared, because that will definitely make the home Console pointless. They had might as well do that docking thing so many talk about if all games are shared.

But then you'd run into the issue of Nintendo splitting their focus too much, which was one of the major contributing reasons behind the software droughts for both the 3DS & the Wii U. Sure, keep games that are too ambitious to be scaled down as console-only. But if it can be helped, as many games as possible should be on both & should scale accordingly.

 

[James Scott]

A fully fledged 3D Pokemon RPG on NX would sure move a lot of Units. I don't know why they didn't have done this for WiiU. Better late than never tho.

Probably the mindset a lot of japanese devs adopted last gen: "Why spend a considerable amount more on a console game when it's cheaper and it'll sell better on a portable".
This likely made it harder to advance franchises (likely why pokemon hasn't changed much).
Square Enix is taking a cool approach trying to make the best of both worlds advancing the series while still appealing to older fans and reaching a massive audience.
I don't think they are against releasing ports of the portable games, but they likely don't think it's worth the effort to make a full console exclusive.

 

[Peru]

I think that simpler games like Animal Crossing, Mario vs. DK, 2D platformers, Pokemon, Brain Age (if that's still alive then), rhythm games, etc should be the only ones that are cross-play. Action games that are faster paced should be kept separate. And if either the Console or Handheld has some sort of gimmick that's exclusive to each device, they can design games exclusive to that device, around that gimmick.

It's hard to imagine that they'd have the entire library shared, because that will definitely make the home Console pointless. They had might as well do that docking thing so many talk about if all games are shared.

It wouldn't make it pointless, you may get better resolution or visuals, and obviously a different experience playing it on the big screen with controllers. Some people prefer handhelds, some consoles. Some _regions_ prefer handhelds, some consoles. And having to choose which library you're getting based on the hardware you prefer is increasingly pointless.

Maybe 3rd parties do what they want, maybe there are console exclusives. But I want the general rule to be that Nintendo games can be playable on both. If only simpler games are playable on both then Nintendo will have gained nothing in terms of making effective use of resources and they will still face potential droughts.

 

[StreetsAhead]

A fully fledged 3D Pokemon RPG on NX would sure move a lot of Units. I don't know why they didn't have done this for WiiU. Better late than never tho.

Game Freak, bless their cotton socks, have never shown themselves to be technically competent enough for me to trust that they could do a fully fledged RPG on a system like the Wii U and have it be as big as the handheld games while also not being a mess on the tech side of things.

While it may move a lot of units, it would almost certainly sell worse than a handheld version would (as do Mario Kart, Smash, etc), require a significantly larger budget, and, given team size and experience, likely come at the cost of developing a handheld game. I don't think TPCi or Game Freak would ever do something that came at the cost of developing the proven handheld versions.

Now, if the NX home console is able to have handheld games ported to it relatively easily I'd say maybe it's worth a shot. (Perhaps a scenario where the home console is able to play some/most/all handheld games at higher "settings" on a TV with cloud saving, maybe for some nominal fee or something like that).

 

[James Scott]

3D World looking 'unimpressive' is down to art more than anything imo. I personally thought it looked great, but there's no doubt they went with a very clean and straightforward look that people saw as a step back from the bombastic "MARIO IN SPACE" theme from Galaxy and the charm of Isle Delfino. The effects/lighting/shadows/textures all running at smooth 60 fps was very visually appealing to me personally.

The characters themselves looking simple is just down to the cartoony aesthetic more than anything. They made Mario look more realistic on Wii in Brawl but that's clearly not the look they were going for in 3D World. I doubt it was due to hardware limitation.

I personally think it's partly to do with the camera angle. 3D land had a fixed angle camera, but it was usually more dynamic and gave a better look at Mario while the 3D World camera felt a lot more stiff and was zoomed out.
Also the character models definitely felt like a step down from Mario Galaxy.
I also think MG was 60fps, and I think the planetoid theme helped with that and would probably be the best method to continue.

Game Freak, bless their cotton socks, have never shown themselves to be technically competent enough for me to trust that they could do a fully fledged RPG on a system like the Wii U and have it be as big as the handheld games while also not being a mess on the tech side of things.

While it may move a lot of units, it would almost certainly sell worse than a handheld version would (as do Mario Kart, Smash, etc), require a significantly larger budget, and, given team size and experience, likely come at the cost of developing a handheld game. I don't think TPCi or Game Freak would ever do something that came at the cost of developing the proven handheld versions.

Yeah, there's also that. GameFreak isn't technically competent with their frankly ugly at times 3DS pokemon games running horribly and with 3D disabled at times.
GF likely has enough power over the IP to not allow someone else to make a mainline title which would doom the more expensive console titles to sell even less while being labled as spin offs.

 

[James Scott]

sorry, double post.

 

[Malus]

I personally think it's partly to do with the camera angle. 3D land had a fixed angle camera, but it was usually more dynamic and gave a better look at Mario while the 3D World camera felt a lot more stiff and was zoomed out.
Also the character models definitely felt like a step down from Mario Galaxy.
I also think MG was 60fps, and I think the planetoid theme helped with that and would probably be the best method to continue.

I don't really know what you mean by the character models. Galaxy models just look like lower res 3D World models to me. I agree that a more dynamic camera would be nice.

Either way I think the look had little to do with the hardware.

 

[Zoon]

Yeah, there's also that. GameFreak isn't technically competent with their frankly ugly at times 3DS pokemon games running horribly and with 3D disabled at times.

As far as I remember, this is because the models have too many polygons for the 3ds to handle.This might also mean that they are already prepared for a "stronger" system to develop for.

 

[James Scott]

I don't really know what you mean by the character models. Galaxy models just look like lower res 3D World models to me. I agree that a more dynamic camera would be nice.

Either way I think the look had little to do with the hardware.

Yeah, definitely. The Wii U can make some great looking Mario character models like most MK8 renditions and Bowser which is still super impressive.

As far as I remember, this is because the models have too many polygons for the 3ds to handle.This might also mean that they are already prepared for a "stronger" system to develop for.

Yeah, the pokemon still look very nice that they could just keep using those for quite awhile on NX.
But Pokemon definitly needs some work on the overworlds (which disable 3D)

This might be a case of tradition holding back a franchise thanks to walking and how that's important (steps). But a 3D overworld with camera controls more akin to N64 Zelda games would probably please fans and give the world more life.

 

[StreetsAhead]

Yeah, there's also that. GameFreak isn't technically competent with their frankly ugly at times 3DS pokemon games running horribly and with 3D disabled at times.
GF likely has enough power over the IP to not allow someone else to make a mainline title which would doom the more expensive console titles to sell even less while being labled as spin offs.

GF, like basically every developer, of course makes use of out-sourcing to some degree but they remain the leads. I don't know the details of their arrangements, obviously, but given I imagine any situation where a 3rd party developer is making "mainline" Pokemon games with new Pokemon and everything without their input is impossible and, you're right, without the lure of new Pokemon I can't honestly see that many people being interested in a console RPG. But hey, maybe I'm wrong completely, and Level 5 is producing a console remake of RBGY for the Wii U.

As far as I remember, this is because the models have too many polygons for the 3ds to handle.This might also mean that they are already prepared for a "stronger" system to develop for.

Yes, partly. At least, that is my understanding, although a lot of the worst slow down occurs on models with flapping wings or moving parts which makes me think it has something to do with the edge-drawing system they have on the models. Anyway, I can't remember exactly what was said, but I'm sure they said something about wanting to be able to use the models 'in the future' or 'for spin offs' or something around the time of XY's release. It makes sense to future-proof them to an extent, given that you're dealing with over 800 models when you account for forms, formes, megas, gender differences and so on.

 

[Gsnap]

pshhhh. The character models in 3D world are absolutely not a step down from Galaxy.

Anyway. I think, if the shared library ends up being true, I think we're going to have to do away with the idea of "handheld" games. I think it'll just be regular games and console-exclusive games. The console will be the only one that needs exclusive games, both because of the games themselves (people will understand, and not complain that much, if games similar to X or Zelda are console exclusive), but also because the console will need more incentive to buy it than the handheld. And since handheld games are becoming more and more console-ish, it should be easy to convince people that they aren't playing games made specifically for a handheld on their console, but instead are just playing "regular" games wherever they want.

 

[reelbigtink]

This thread made it to the wonderful page 101 with nothing specifically confirmed. This thing is under some impressive wraps.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Emerald was released in the DS's lifespan and B&W 2 were released in the 3DS's lifespan. It's not unreasonable for the next Pokemon game to be on the 3DS no matter what.

 

[Neoxon]

Emerald was released in the DS's lifespan and B&W 2 were released in the 3DS's lifespan. It's not unreasonable for the next Pokemon game to be on the 3DS no matter what.

Emerald was out in Japan before the DS & North America only a few months after its DS release (which was at the same time as Japan, if I recall correctly). A Black 2/White 2 situation is probably something that Nintendo wants to avoid this time concerning the NX Platform's Pokémon game. Though I do agree that we'll probably get Z for the 3DS as a send-off game.

 

[ekim]

This thread made it to the wonderful page 101 with nothing specifically confirmed. This thing is under some impressive wraps.

I'm under the impression that Nintendo really can keep its secrets. Remember the sudden announcement of the 2DS and the reactions?

 

[10k]

Assuming the shared library b/w console and handheld via gamecards becomes true, how would Nintendo do the pricing for the games? I always thought the biggest advantage handhelds had over consoles was that the games were cheaper. If the people who only wanted the NX handheld saw that the games cost $50-$60, I'd imagine many of them would be turned off from getting it (especially parents buying for their kids). After thinking on it for quite a bit, I really couldn't think of any good solutions. Here are some of the options I could think of with their downsides (NX Home = home console; NX Go = handheld):

1. $40 retail for the gamecard. Works on both NX Home and Go, but if you want to take full advantage the NX Home's extra power, you'll need to download the extra visual assets from the eshop for $20 bringing the total price of both console and handheld versions to the standard $60. The obvious killer to this won't work well with the people w/ slow internet and/or data caps.

2. Split the difference and go with $50 retail for the gamecard which includes the extra visual assets to take advantage of the extra power for NX Home. Still pricey for those who only have the handheld, but hopefully it won't have too much of an impact on sales. A good deal for those who just have NX Home or both.

3. Sell 2 retail versions of the gamecard: $40 for one for NX Go only (no extra assets for NX Home) and $60 for one for NX Home + Go (with assets for NX Home). Downside is that you'll be needing double to shelf space. Also, if you buy the Go exclusive gamecard and get an NX Home later, you'll be out of luck unless they adopt strategy #1 which has its own downside.

4. $60 for the gamecard which includes all the assets for NX Home. Pretty expensive for those who only have NX Go.


So yeah, I'm kind of at a loss for what Nintendo should do if they really plan on doing shared libraries for both NX versions.

It'll be $60 for the console games and $40 for the handheld games.

Honestly I think we're reading too much into the merging of the handheld and console divisions and Iwata saying he wanted all devices to be like brothers.

All he meant was he wanted to streamline development so games didn't need to be built from the ground up for the handheld and the console (like smash 4 was). Ideally, you're still gonna get cross platform games but the Similar architectures, the devs working together, and scalability of the hardware makes porting from the handheld to console or vice versa easier, but not trivial.

You might see more paper Mario, Mario and Luigi, fire emblem and Pokemon make it over to the console and Xenoblade, Zelda and 3D Mario to the handheld. But it'll still be sold as two different sku's, and outside of Nintendo exclusives and third party agreements, you won't see cross platform games. AAA western publishers will develop console games, Japanese will port to the handheld, and some of those Japanese will decide if it's worth making a console version.

I don't think there's going to be cartridges with handheld assests and console assests being sold at retail at a fixed price. It'll either more expensive handheld games or cheaper console games, both of which won't fly.

He meant both handheld and console, if you can find the quote.

Ah true.

This thread made it to the wonderful page 101 with nothing specifically confirmed. This thing is under some impressive wraps.

Filthy 50 post per page shill.

 

[Malus]

This thread made it to the wonderful page 101 with nothing specifically confirmed. This thing is under some impressive wraps.

As far as rumors go Trevelyan9999 said he saw the PC version of a 'very visually impressive' game supposedly coming to NX and the dev he spoke to is expecting a 2016 release based on the way dev kits are coming. Also said he was 100% sure his source was legit because he was given lots of info pertaining to his identity and place of work.

Not super specific, yeah. But that will make the megatons all the sweeter.

Donut screeeeeensssss

 

[Napalm_Frank]

I'm very surprised we don't seem to have any tangible spec leaks for NX. I mean, the thing (or at least one version of it) has to be releasing this year. In 2013 at this point we pretty much knew the overall specs of both Orbis and Durango with the exception of the 8gb Ram surprise. I know Ninty Ninjas are usually best in the biz but I'd have imagined that with hardware launch something would spill.

On the other hand it makes me more excited to know that we should be getting some details any day now. I'm one of those that believe Nintendo to give us some info before E3.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Yes, partly. At least, that is my understanding, although a lot of the worst slow down occurs on models with flapping wings or moving parts which makes me think it has something to do with the edge-drawing system they have on the models.

It will be the animation system struggling with the amount of bones, Maybe New 3ds mode will fix that for Z.
The outlines will have a fixed performance, it just uses a filter similar to what the DS had built in hardware to do. While you draw everything it draws an object/body part ID value per pixel to a seperate buffer, afterwards apply a full screen filter that draws a black pixel if the pixel to the right or below has a different object ID. It's a bit more complicated than that but not much. (some lines aren't drawn where certain body part IDs connect)

 

[10k]

I'm very surprised we don't seem to have any tangible spec leaks for NX. I mean, the thing (or at least one version of it) has to be releasing this year. In 2013 at this point we pretty much knew the overall specs of both Orbis and Durango with the exception of the 8gb Ram surprise. I know Ninty Ninjas are usually best in the biz but I'd have imagined that with hardware launch something would spill.

On the other hand it makes me more excited to know that we should be getting some details any day now. I'm one of those that believe Nintendo to give us some info before E3.

Sony and Microsoft have leaky ships. Always. That's why all the major news leaks weeks before or sometimes months. Verendus, Cboat, shinobi, etc.

Nintendo never really leaks. Even the Wii U specs never really leaked until it was shown. There were rumors it was weakened at the last minute. 1.5GB of ram was heavily speculated. 768 Megaflop gpu was heavily hinted at. We never really knew nothing until a month before E3 when Ideaman said it had 2GB of ram and TT games QA tester posted a pic of the new gamepad with logos and analog sticks on Twitter.

 

[Trevelyan9999]

As far as rumors go Trevelyan9999 said he saw the PC version of a 'very visually impressive' game supposedly coming to NX and the dev he spoke to is expecting a 2016 release based on the way dev kits are coming. Also said he was 100% sure his source was legit because he was given lots of info pertaining to his identity and place of work.

Not super specific, yeah. But that will make the megatons all the sweeter.

Donut screeeeeensssss

Yes indeed. I can't share the proof here but like I said I can definitely prove the validity of these statements in private if needed to a MOD that handles these type of things on GAF.

I talked to the developer yesterday and it seems like he may have in fact broke his NDA without realizing it due to the complexity of the documents involved with this. I suggested that myself and others at GAF really don't want him to get in trouble with any legal problems that could arise for him if he gets found out and it could jeopardize his game from further development and the chance of coming to the NX.

The fact that this developer wants to port their game to the NX isn't really big news since we are starting to hear this all the time, it's what he revealed about the Dev Kits availability, Unreal Engine 4 and Unity being ready to go that caused the stir.

 

[Turrican3]

dont want to be harsh but western third party support will never be a solid form point for a Nintendo console anymore, neither home nor portable.

Of course right now it seems quite unlikely, but I definitely wouldn't rule out anything in the mid-long term, assuming they do the right moves AND are actually interested in pursuing that kind of market, that is.

Which I'm not exactly sure: unless a drastic mindset change happen, I think Nintendo would actually prefer to track down the next Minecraft (ie a product that has an extremely broad appeal, and it happens to be more in line with their usual target) rather than the next CoD or GTA or whatever.

But, as I said, who's to know whether in 10-15 years they totally revamp their western operations and pull another Goldeneye/Perfect Dark?

I also think MG was 60fps

3D World was 60fps too though.

If I'm not mistaken the only non-60fps (former) EAD Tokyo game is 3D Land... and that actually renders 60fps as well due to the 3D screen.

 

[Roo]

However, I'm definitely not expecting franchises that appeared on Wii U to get visual downgrades going to NX home console.

Basically this.
There's no way their games look worse* that the previous gen (Wii U)


Worse as in.. less geometry, poly count, shaders, lighting sources, models, etc.

 

[JoeM86]

I think the perception that Game Freak will struggle on stronger hardware is a bit of a misnomer. The reason X & Y struggles on the 3DS is because they're doing too much on it. The models are way too high quality. As such, if it was on a stronger device, it'd run like a dream

 

[StreetsAhead]

I think the perception that Game Freak will struggle on stronger hardware is a bit of a misnomer. The reason X & Y struggles on the 3DS is because they're doing too much on it. The models are way too high quality. As such, if it was on a stronger device, it'd run like a dream

And the relatively sparse overworld's lack of 3D?

 

[JoeM86]

And the relatively sparse overworld's lack of 3D?

It's either that or there will be too many gates between areas.

Besides, Detective Pikachu isn't 3D and nobody complains about that. That game is the best looking 3DS game I have seen.

 

[GhostTrick]

I think the perception that Game Freak will struggle on stronger hardware is a bit of a misnomer. The reason X & Y struggles on the 3DS is because they're doing too much on it. The models are way too high quality. As such, if it was on a stronger device, it'd run like a dream

The battle models are high quality. The overworld looks bad. It'd be good also if they finally transitionned to a full 3D view.

 

[Roo]

I think the perception that Game Freak will struggle on stronger hardware is a bit of a misnomer. The reason X & Y struggles on the 3DS is because they're doing too much on it. The models are way too high quality. As such, if it was on a stronger device, it'd run like a dream

I've seen the models first hand and not gonna lie, I'm impressed by the work done.
Some of them could be taken as Wii U models.