Compared to something like Yokai Watch the overworld looks like a generation behind, though.
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What we know so far about the Nintendo NX with sources
- Thread starter Hero of Legend
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Compared to something like Yokai Watch the overworld looks like a generation behind, though.
Cjdamon042
Member
Yeah this is my main issue. The battles in XY look great, nothing wrong there. But the overworld a lot of the time is just ugly. And comparing it to Yokai Watch for example really shows that as Peru says.
And Detective Pikachu isn't 3D? Kind of gutted. I guess I can understand why since the game looks gorgeous so maybe it couldn't handle it, but even so, I love the 3D aspect of the 3DS.
GhostTrick
Banned
Have you seen the actual models? They are ridiculously high poly, the sort of amounts you'd expect from a high level PS3 game.
GhostTrick
Banned
I seen them yes. 12k models or sth ? Definitely a lot. But that's what you need to compare to a fighting game for exemple.
That's comparable to Dead or Alive games on og Xbox, with models between 10 to 15k
Graphics Horse
Member
Do they use the same models as the pokedex 3D thing? They were super high poly, it's harder to tell when flatshaded.
Yeah. They just went with a specific style which is making people think they're not high res
Why?
GhostTrick
Banned
Low res bur also terrible texture filtering. The OG models are good but not PS3 high level as you put it.
Wrong and wrong. They aren't low quality and they don't have terrible textures.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I think part of Pokemon's problem is that Gamefreak doesn't grow with technology and are still using a lot of the same graphics engine people they have been using since 1996. For the most part, they just leave it to other parties to make graphically impressive things with Pokemon designs.
I don't think it's a matter of budget - if required, Nintendo would give them an extra $50 million on top of their normal budget to ensure the games sell as well or better. But they own 1/3rd of Pokemon and, until the games start failing to sell, there's not a whole lot outside hardcore gaming circles pressuring them to catch up. You could give them PS4-level technology and still get Pokemon X/Y.
I don't think it's a matter of budget - if required, Nintendo would give them an extra $50 million on top of their normal budget to ensure the games sell as well or better. But they own 1/3rd of Pokemon and, until the games start failing to sell, there's not a whole lot outside hardcore gaming circles pressuring them to catch up. You could give them PS4-level technology and still get Pokemon X/Y.
GhostTrick
Banned
You misunderstand me. I didnt said they are low quality I said the opposite. But the low res 3DS screen AND the bad texture FILTERING hurts them. Models and textures are good, but without proper texture filtering applied on texture, they look low res.
Basically, this is XY's problem:
That's a problem IMO. And I think Pokemon needs to make the full 3D jump with a full 3D overworld like any other 3D JRPG such as DQVIII.
It has a full 3D overworld...
GhostTrick
Banned
You know what I mean by that. Not a top down view, tailored for top down view with a weird scale 3D overworld.
One like any 3D JRPG. Or basically, like Digimon Cyber Sleuth.
Theanine3D
Member
Some of you guys are worrying way too much about console NX games being downgraded as a result of also having to target handheld hardware. (Assuming the shared library rumor is even true)
Making a very hi-poly, detailed model and then making a lower-poly version afterwards is already done constantly by 3D artists in the industry. Not only is this nothing new or even particularly difficult, it's actually something artists usually have to do anyway. All popular game engines like Unreal also allow you to switch the quality of a rendered model depending on what hardware the game is running on. Same goes for textures and shaders.
Nintendo has decades of experience making both handheld and console games. They know how to optimize for each, and with handheld + console teams now unified, it'll be even simpler for them to make games that target both at the same time. Nintendo isn't going to release a Mario Kart that looks worse than the previous one. That's just silly.
Making a very hi-poly, detailed model and then making a lower-poly version afterwards is already done constantly by 3D artists in the industry. Not only is this nothing new or even particularly difficult, it's actually something artists usually have to do anyway. All popular game engines like Unreal also allow you to switch the quality of a rendered model depending on what hardware the game is running on. Same goes for textures and shaders.
Nintendo has decades of experience making both handheld and console games. They know how to optimize for each, and with handheld + console teams now unified, it'll be even simpler for them to make games that target both at the same time. Nintendo isn't going to release a Mario Kart that looks worse than the previous one. That's just silly.
Graphics Horse
Member
You misunderstand me. I didnt said they are low quality I said the opposite. But the low res 3DS screen AND the bad texture FILTERING hurts them. Models and textures are good, but without proper texture filtering applied on texture, they look low res.
Basically, this is XY's problem:
Yeah the models look pretty much future proofed for whatever style they want to use them, a lot of work they probably don't want to repeat for a long time. Something like Tangela shows the limits to the polygon budget but most look fine.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I can understand why when people look in anticipation to consoles pushing the hardware boundaries some other gamers might feel that it is pointless as graphics are (always) good enough, diminishing returns, etc... Legitimate if all we see are more polygons per character.
Having wildly different hardware targets means a potential gulf of performance to fill, think iPhone 4 and iPhone 6S Plus even... worse if you compare a handheld to a home console. You end up either spending more money making two fully optimised/reworked targets or target a common ground, gravitating towards making the job easier on the lower performance device. When you are potentially talking about swapping simulation/real time effects for static graphics effects or non graphics bits and pieces (physics or A.I.) things can get a real pain in the proverbial butt.
If you want hardware performance to be used for anything but easily scalable cosmetic graphics effects then trying to have the same game on two platforms using the resources available well the you are like asking two different versions of the same game... not a simple universal executable.
TheMoon
Member
We also know that isn't completely true since they told us at E3 that they designed some of the bosses or something of that nature (the desert worm robot thing, for example). I bet this is more a case of their source being a little lax with specifics in that regard.
Again, they have made a "real" 3D Pokémon game. They also don't need help. Hyperbole is rife with this topic.
GhostTrick
Banned
That's ridiculous. That's the sort of bull that comes with people saying Super Mario 3D World isn't a 3D Mario because it has a fixed camera.
GhostTrick
Banned
Its not. Sure, they sometimes us a different camera view. But in the end, its mostly like this.
Its not only camera, its gameplay roots too. 3D World and Pokemon XY feels like 2D titles in their gameplay.
Pokemaniac
Member
Its not. Sure, they sometimes us a different camera view. But in the end, its mostly like this.
Its not only camera, its gameplay roots too. 3D World and Pokemon XY feels like 2D titles in their gameplay.
So, it's not 3D enough because you don't like the camera angle?
TheMoon
Member
GhostTrick
Banned
Its not. Sure, they sometimes us a different camera view. But in the end, its mostly like this.
Its not only camera, its gameplay roots too. 3D World and Pokemon XY feels like 2D titles in their gameplay.
No, that's ridiculous. Your reasoning is completely flawed.
What makes a 3D Game?
3D models? Check
Altitude usage? Check
Rotational camera? Check
Yes, the camera is often fixed (less so in XY than ORAS though, but that's due to them wanting to keep the feel of RS), but that doesn't make it not 3D. Stop being ridiculous.
If you dont see the difference between this:
And this:
-1.jpg)
I dont know what to say
You mean like
GhostTrick
Banned
No, that's ridiculous. Your reasoning is completely flawed.
What makes a 3D Game?
3D models? Check
Altitude usage? Check
Rotational camera? Check
Yes, the camera is often fixed (less so in XY than ORAS though, but that's due to them wanting to keep the feel of RS), but that doesn't make it not 3D. Stop being ridiculous.
You're the one being ridiculous. I said FULL 3d. Not some sections with a fixed angle. ALBW also had sections like this. It doesnt mean it was a 3D Zelda.
Theanine3D
Member
Its not. Sure, they sometimes us a different camera view. But in the end, its mostly like this.
Its not only camera, its gameplay roots too. 3D World and Pokemon XY feels like 2D titles in their gameplay.
The only thing that really made XY feel like a 2D game was the grid movement. And they already got rid of that in ORAS.
To make it a "real 3D" game (going by your definition) all they would need to do is reposition the camera right behind the player character instead. But they wouldn't need help from an outside studio just to do something so dead simple.
GhostTrick
Banned
Its not as simple. Its also about scale.
No, because it looks like a 2D game with a topdown view and plays like one.
TheMoon
Member
If you dont see the difference between this:
And this:
I dont know what to say
Yes, it's called a camera angle
Both are 3D games.
GhostTrick
Banned
Yes, it's called a camera angle
Both are 3D games.
You're playing on words. Technically, NSMB games are 3D games. I'm not talking about models though, I'm talking about scale, gameplay, exploration and such.
It's 3D in the same way Pokemon Black and White was 3D.
But I feel like I rather wait for Gamefreak to actually make it so that the very same people attacking me right now will call it a true revolution for the serie.
Graphics Horse
Member
So anyway, what do we know about the nx?
Herb Alpert
Banned
It will play video games, probably Nintendo games. Avatar bet.
That's risky, you know? Good luck with that bet, you really need it.
brainchild
Banned
PEOPLE, this thread is about NX NEWS, NOT the definition of 3D games!!!!!
I literally thought that I clicked on the wrong thread just now.
I literally thought that I clicked on the wrong thread just now.
Throwing my bets below ->
Portable:
Octo-core ARM cortex A53 clocked at 1.5 GHz at 28nm
2GB LPDDR4
Mali Midgard 2nd/3rd gen or Adreno 320/330 AMD equivalent GPU
Console:
Octo-core ARM cortex A72 clocked at 2.0-2.5 GHz at 28 nm
8gb DDR3/4
AMD GCN 1.2 GPU 10-12CUs 1TFLOP
Feasible?
Portable:
Octo-core ARM cortex A53 clocked at 1.5 GHz at 28nm
2GB LPDDR4
Mali Midgard 2nd/3rd gen or Adreno 320/330 AMD equivalent GPU
Console:
Octo-core ARM cortex A72 clocked at 2.0-2.5 GHz at 28 nm
8gb DDR3/4
AMD GCN 1.2 GPU 10-12CUs 1TFLOP
Feasible?
TheMoon
Member
You don't understand the fundamental thing here: NSMB plays exclusively on a two dimensional plain. Joe showed you with pictures that those Pokémon games are 3D world that just sometimes get presented with a locked overhead camera, you still move around in a three dimensional world.
edit: to stop this train, I'm getting off of this 3D debate now^^
let's get back to talking about poorly made NX leaks and silly rumors!
Why bother with something so specific? I really don't get the point of these ultra-specific predictions. Hardware-wise or software-wise.
This is all wrong...
Gamefreak are one of the few developers who optimize their games for the 3DS. The amount of content they added in the 6th generation Pokemon games is alot in comparison to the previous gens. Going full 3D in 6th gen meant that they had to create new assets for pretty much everything. As the peeps were praising the 6th gen games for their models on the actual Pokemon in battle(you know the meat of the game) they were focal point. They are the equivalent of fighters in a Fighting game...
Lets be honest here, with the sheer scale of a Pokemon game, there was no way everything in the game was going to be as detail as the battle models, doesn't matter how you slice it, that is a tall order to fill. Especially considering all the content that was added in this game such as the trainer customization which is something isn't present in ORAS.
All things considered, 6th gen Pokemon games are actually visually impressive on the 3DS. Then again, MGS3D, SSFIV3D, Tales of the Abyss, and Senran Kagura 2, also impressed me so I guess I'm easily impressed.
GhostTrick
Banned
Adreno 320 would be pretty bad. Mali 2nd gen is possible, considering it's in cheap chinese SoC such as the one in GPD XD, which use a Mali T760mp4 (Mali T764).
No, you guys don't understand the fundamental thing here. I said "full 3D", implying not some sections trying to play with the 3D thing by having a different view. A different exemple would've been better: A Link Between World. Top down view, but 3D graphics, yet 2D gameplay. The game also use different camera view at some points.
DaSorcerer7
Member
Not enough CUs, and make it 2 Tflops.
Simply because I'm a bit bored.
Claude Augario
Member
If you look at it from a certain angle, it will cease existing in three-dimensional space.
I anticipate that Nintendo will up their game in terms of 3rd party support so they at least have to be as powerful as the X1 but launching mid-gen, I see them being on the level of PS4 or even above. My wild guess for whatever it's worth: AMD APU with a combined 2.7 TFLOP (CPU+GPU)
DaSorcerer7
Member
At least we know that miitomo and mynintendo are launching this week and that's sort of nx related right??
TheMoon
Member
None of this is the case.
Neither Miitomo nor MyNintendo are launching this week.
Pre-registration for Miitomo starts this week which you can do by creating a Nintendo Account. That is all. Miitomo and MyNintendo launch in March.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Here's a line for improvement: cut one CPU cluster from the hh and use a better GPU instead.
ed: and of course A72 does not do 2.5GHz at 28nm.
Herb Alpert
Banned
Sort of, Yeah. I thought they would have done a direct for that, but it seems that this won't be the case.
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