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What we know so far about the Nintendo NX with sources

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thefro

Member
So nothing new from Reggie about NX?

Reggie seemingly isn't there. He was at the DICE awards last night (and presumably at DICE all week), so he is probably still out in Vegas. Scott Moffitt is the one who cut the ribbon for the store.

I'm sure there will be an article or two interviewing Moffitt, so we might get a non-answer out of him that might be slightly interesting.

I think we might get a leak or two after everyone gets back from DICE, perhaps from an outlet like WSJ or Fortune that talks to executives at game companies.
 

Pinky

Banned
"Reggie! Reggie! Can you tell us anything about Nintendo's NX platform today???"

Reggie:
daily_life_moments_are_hilarious_in_gifs_05.gif
 
So for those who are hoping for NX news at the store relaunch, brace for disappointment. Messaging new hardware .... at your newly renovated retail brick n mortar that's working to sell existing hardware .... is not a sound strategy. Essentially you'd make the products on your shelves immediately obsolete.

At best, based on the design and messaging of content in the store, we can get a glimpse as to how Nintendo marketing may address NX and other coming initiatives.
 

Malus

Member
We need a scout to go to the store opening and try to find the rumored secret NX dungeon hidden within its depths.

I hear its underneath the Reggie pachinko machine.
 
So for those who are hoping for NX news at the store relaunch, brace for disappointment. Messaging new hardware .... at your newly renovated retail brick n mortar that's working to sell existing hardware .... is not a sound strategy. Essentially you'd make the products on your shelves immediately obsolete.

At best, based on the design and messaging of content in the store, we can get a glimpse as to how Nintendo marketing may address NX and other coming initiatives.

lol

you didnt even need to go to this level of detail to point out the obvious but hey

We are all in the same boat here right
 

Nightbird

Member
Aren't Nintendo Directs supposed to have a new branding this year?
I remember to have read a comment from Kimishima about that sometime last year.
 

10k

Banned
Aren't Nintendo Directs supposed to have a new branding this year?
I remember to have read a comment from Kimishima about that sometime last year.
Nintendo Indirect. We imply games and consoles are coming out using uncommon media platforms. You have to speculate which ones and when they're releasing.
 

butalala

Member
Nintendo Indirect. We imply games and consoles are coming out using uncommon media platforms. You have to speculate which ones and when they're releasing.

That could explain the MySpace message I got about Paper Mario this morning...
 

Thraktor

Member
Great, now I wanna see what IT can do with photon-mapping. You're right, a biased algorithm like photon mapping would work pretty well with their setup. Though looking at their history, it would seem that they have their feet firmly planted in the field of ray-tracing.

They do place quite a bit of emphasis on hybrid rendering as a use case for their ray tracing solutions, though, and although it's more focussed towards shadows, reflections, etc, there's not a huge jump to something like image space photon mapping.
 

Malus

Member
Interesting tidbit I found while reading through old rumors.

From Supermetaldave/Treveylan9999's site:

"I would like to give credit to the site Administrator at Nintendo Forums who goes by the name "Crunchyg" he posted a story yesterday that basically matches and confirms what Mr Mochizuki posted in the Wall Street Journal, it is too close to be a lucky guess or fabrication. Nintendoforums and Crunchyg was accused of being "fake hype" reporters due to the lack of notoriety of his site but he has sources in the industry that are basically on the same level as Mochizuki from the WSJ. Obviously nobody's going to say too much since they are under an NDA, and Nintendo's PR is unfortunately already aware of the thread at his website. "

That's a rather loaded statement.

The crunchyg stuff was from here: http://www.nintendoforums.com/threads/nintendo-nx-will-have-incredibly-powerful-hardware.1963/

I remember some people (a lot of people) saying the Nintendoforums stuff sounded incredibly fake, particularly for the "crunching tons of polygons" thing.

Just thought it was interesting.
 
Interesting tidbit I found while reading through old rumors.

From Supermetaldave/Treveylan9999's site:

"I would like to give credit to the site Administrator at Nintendo Forums who goes by the name "Crunchyg" he posted a story yesterday that basically matches and confirms what Mr Mochizuki posted in the Wall Street Journal, it is too close to be a lucky guess or fabrication. Nintendoforums and Crunchyg was accused of being "fake hype" reporters due to the lack of notoriety of his site but he has sources in the industry that are basically on the same level as Mochizuki from the WSJ. Obviously nobody's going to say too much since they are under an NDA, and Nintendo's PR is unfortunately already aware of the thread at his website. "

That's a rather loaded statement.

The crunchyg stuff was from here: http://www.nintendoforums.com/threads/nintendo-nx-will-have-incredibly-powerful-hardware.1963/

I remember some people (a lot of people) saying the Nintendoforums stuff sounded incredibly fake, particularly for the "crunching tons of polygons" thing.

Just thought it was interesting.
A link to Trev's quote?
(also, was he mod approved already?)
 
They do place quite a bit of emphasis on hybrid rendering as a use case for their ray tracing solutions, though, and although it's more focussed towards shadows, reflections, etc, there's not a huge jump to something like image space photon mapping.

I must say, those ray-traced shadows are pretty sexy. Also, did I spot some form of percentage-closer shadowing?!

As far as ISPM, I really think they need to inject some proper PBR materials into those demos because all of the surfaces looked really bad, even with global illumination in effect.
 

10k

Banned
Interesting tidbit I found while reading through old rumors.

From Supermetaldave/Treveylan9999's site:

"I would like to give credit to the site Administrator at Nintendo Forums who goes by the name "Crunchyg" he posted a story yesterday that basically matches and confirms what Mr Mochizuki posted in the Wall Street Journal, it is too close to be a lucky guess or fabrication. Nintendoforums and Crunchyg was accused of being "fake hype" reporters due to the lack of notoriety of his site but he has sources in the industry that are basically on the same level as Mochizuki from the WSJ. Obviously nobody's going to say too much since they are under an NDA, and Nintendo's PR is unfortunately already aware of the thread at his website. "

That's a rather loaded statement.

The crunchyg stuff was from here: http://www.nintendoforums.com/threads/nintendo-nx-will-have-incredibly-powerful-hardware.1963/

I remember some people (a lot of people) saying the Nintendoforums stuff sounded incredibly fake, particularly for the "crunching tons of polygons" thing.

Just thought it was interesting.
Oh shit.....this is getting more credible.

But saying the game couldn't run at 60fps with the latest Intel or GPU probably means it wasn't optimized.

Otherwise you're looking at a $599 console.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
I can say with a fair degree of confidence what the solution to Nintendo's OS load time issues with the Wii U is, and it's not faster NAND, snappier processors or anything like that, it's LPDDR4.

It's occurred to me that the Wii U's "slow OS load times" compared to the PS4 and XBO have pretty much nothing at all to do with the hardware performance or software implementation, it's all to do with how Nintendo implements the Wii U's sleep state compared to the other two. Effectively, when you put the Wii U to sleep the system is almost completely powered off. Espresso probably keeps going to monitor the network, handle downloads, etc., but it presumably does so using purely the 32MB of eDRAM, as it would appear that the DDR3 is completely powered down.

Minor thing regarding this. With how features are split between the main Wii U OS and IOSU, it's quite likely that Espresso doesn't turn on at all during standby mode, and that the whole thing is actually handled by Starbuck.
 

10k

Banned
That remains to be seen lol.
I'm going to give Trev, Moichizuki and crunchyG the benefit of the doubt since they don't have much to gain from this.

But if the NX ends up weaksauce or on par with the laptop twins they will forever be laughed at and ridiculed by me. They don't want this. I can be very annoying.


Can AMD put out any kind of CPU or GPU or APU that can run PS4 games at twice the framerate at a reasonable price?


LPDDR4 for faster OS speeds. Whew Thraktor you're making me hot.
 

ramparter

Banned
Oh shit.....this is getting more credible.

But saying the game couldn't run at 60fps with the latest Intel or GPU probably means it wasn't optimized.

Otherwise you're looking at a $599 console.
Funny thing most prople already own 599$ hardware if put together. So there it is: have a tablet, an iphone and a PS4 in yout house? Install the NXworker in each of them and enjoy the power of your home cluster. Scalable graphics means the more devices you connect, the better.
 

QaaQer

Member
I'm going to give Trev, Moichizuki and crunchyG the benefit of the doubt since they don't have much to gain from this.

But if the NX ends up weaksauce or on par with the laptop twins they will forever be laughed at and ridiculed by me. They don't want this. I can be very annoying.


Can AMD put out any kind of CPU or GPU or APU that can run PS4 games at twice the framerate at a reasonable price?


LPDDR4 for faster OS speeds. Whew Thraktor you're making me hot.

How does a powerful system and complex controller help sell to parents and children?

I think most discussion ignores the fact that Nintendo consoles have never targeted primarily adults.
 

Malus

Member
How does a powerful system and complex controller help sell to parents and children?

I think most discussion ignores the fact that Nintendo consoles have never targeted primarily adults.

Kids all want to have the biggest, baddest console on the block so they can brag about it on the playground.

Parents don't want to give their kids shoddy. sub-Xbone level videogames, only to get made fun of at the next PTA meeting for being cheap bastards. It's a status symbol.
 

Vena

Member
Oh shit.....this is getting more credible.

But saying the game couldn't run at 60fps with the latest Intel or GPU probably means it wasn't optimized.

Otherwise you're looking at a $599 console.

You're just running an unoptimized API through brute force.
 

Zoon

Member
A 600$ console actually be a 250$ console and 350$ SCD.I would be fine with that and I want that to be Nintendo's approach.
 

WadeitOut

Member
Parents don't want to give their kids shoddy. sub-Xbone level videogames, only to get made fun of at the next PTA meeting for being cheap bastards. It's a status symbol.

Yeah...this really isn't a thing. Parents don't discuss what video game console their kids are playing on. If anything they avoid the topic because the hipster parent thing to do is to not let your kids play video games that much.Unless it's Minecraft.
 

QaaQer

Member
Kids all want to have the biggest, baddest console on the block so they can brag about it on the playground.

Parents don't want to give their kids shoddy. sub-Xbone level videogames, only to get made fun of at the next PTA meeting for being cheap bastards. It's a status symbol.

:)

Yeah...this really isn't a thing. Parents don't discuss what video game console their kids are playing on. If anything they avoid the topic because the hipster parent thing to do is to not let your kids play video games that much.Unless it's Minecraft.

Naw, they make them play with Mechano and kites.
 
Ah yes, at the bottom of the article: http://www.nintengen.com/2015/10/nintendo-nx-tech-demo-not-able-to-run.html

Also I thought mod approval was more for when someone was claiming to be a source, rather than having sources. Could be wrong about that tho.

I tried to explain this back in October 2015 to a lot of you guys but it went on deaf ears. Two unrelated sources reported the same type of impressive Tech Demo running on early NX SDK. One of the sources of course more credible than the other with the WSJ being more trusted, but both matching and with Nintendo Forums reporting it 1 day before I confirmed with the WSJ. That was definitely an "OMG...just got real" moment.
 
Parents don't want to give their kids shoddy. sub-Xbone level videogames, only to get made fun of at the next PTA meeting for being cheap bastards. It's a status symbol.

As a parent of 2 kids, this is my greatest fear. Every time any more than 2 parents get together we make fun of the poor parent and their kids. The shame has driven many parents to madness and a second or even a third job.




Seriously though, this is not a thing that has ever happened to anyone ever anywhere.
 

Malus

Member
I tried to explain this back in October 2015 to a lot of you guys but it went on deaf ears. Two unrelated sources reported the same type of impressive Tech Demo running on early NX SDK. One of the sources of course more credible than the other with the WSJ being more trusted, but both matching and with Nintendo Forums reporting it 1 day before I confirmed with the WSJ. That was definitely an "OMG...just got real" moment.

The fact that crunchyg's rumor is similar to the WSJ's report was a connection made early on.

I'm much more interested in the part where you say crunchyg has sources on par with the Wall Street Journal.

Yeah...this really isn't a thing. Parents don't discuss what video game console their kids are playing on. If anything they avoid the topic because the hipster parent thing to do is to not let your kids play video games that much.Unless it's Minecraft.

It was a joke in case I didn't make that clear enough :p
 

Peterc

Member
I tried to explain this back in October 2015 to a lot of you guys but it went on deaf ears. Two unrelated sources reported the same type of impressive Tech Demo running on early NX SDK. One of the sources of course more credible than the other with the WSJ being more trusted, but both matching and with Nintendo Forums reporting it 1 day before I confirmed with the WSJ. That was definitely an "OMG...just got real" moment.

Keep on posting the good stuff!

Rumors are Rumors, we only know for sure if it comes from the BigN themselves. Meanwhile the rumors are the only bytes of information we have. Im happy and currently satisfied with that ☺
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Kids all want to have the biggest, baddest console on the block so they can brag about it on the playground.

Parents don't want to give their kids shoddy. sub-Xbone level videogames, only to get made fun of at the next PTA meeting for being cheap bastards. It's a status symbol.
But the problem now is that people likely won't be willing to spend top dollar on a Nintendo console, especially this late in the generation. Not to mention the small chance of western third parties giving a shit about the NX Platform as a whole. Given the circumstances, the NX Console should be affordable & accessible to as many people as possible.
 
But the problem now is that people likely won't be willing to spend top dollar on a Nintendo console, especially this late in the generation. Not to mention the small chance of western third parties giving a shit about the NX Platform as a whole. Given the circumstances, the NX Console should be affordable & accessible to as many people as possible.

There is no reason they cant make a powerful 299 system in 2016
 

Malus

Member
There is no reason they cant make a powerful 299 system in 2016

The power of the system will be inversely correlated to the amount of donut screens they wanna stick on the controller.

I read Nintendoforums' rumor back then, and i was actually ready to believe it (or at least, not to immediately dismiss it) but there was a statement that made it sound like he was making it up, and it was the bolded:

Saying a core i7 Skylake was having troubles running a software demo for a console that we speculated to be based (in the best case scenario) on ARM A57/72 or Puma cores was just laughable, and i stopped paying attention to that rumor, especially because i remembered very well some things i read before the Wii U's reveal.

But now that i read it again, it's a bit different than what i remembered. He says that they're ASSUMING it's a Skylake i7, non that IT IS a Skylake i7 that's having these issues. For what we know, it was an i5 4460 or Skylake equivalent (i5 6400?). And the near top of the line GPU, which doesn't mean 980ti or Fury X, could very well be a 970 or a 390.

Now of course a 4460 and a 970/390 are way, way more powerful than whatever the NX will use, but it can make sense that a tech demo of a console even in the same ballpark as the Xbox One would cause these troubles AND look fairly impressive for today's standards. Just look at Rise of the Tomb Raider for the PC. That's a game that went through actual development and optimization from a studio to run on current PC hardware. And yes, it's far from being perfectly optimized, it also features some enhancements made for high end PCs, but this is a commercial product, something that was made to be sold to customers. The demo we're talking about here was.. i don't know, an example of what the machine could do? A target render? It certainly wasn't as optimized as a commercial product, so it can make sense that something made for even Xbox One level of hardware, without proper optimization, would have trouble running on far more powerful hardware at 60fps. Software that it's likely to be better optimized than this demo is causing trouble as well.

Now it's impossible to establish if the new console will be more or less powerful than the other two based on this rumor (or others for that matter), and this is definitely not a confirmation of anything of course, but at this point the only thing we have against these reports and the consequent line of thought that the NX will be roughly in the same ballpark as PS4/Xbox One, is ShockingAlberto's laugh, for which we still don't have any context.

Maybe this guy from nintendoforum and the WSJ guy ("industry leading chips" stuff) had the same or a similar source, and it would be a bit odd if these two heard very similar things, and these things happened to be complete horseshit.

This is the kind of discussion I was hoping to dig up with my post.
 

10k

Banned
You're just running an unoptimized API through brute force.
Yeah that was my guess.

But that could rule out a handheld possibly, at least this particular game or demonstration because no handheld at an affordable price is running AAA games at PS4 levels of detail and scope even with unoptimized API's and 540p resolutions.
How does a powerful system and complex controller help sell to parents and children?

I think most discussion ignores the fact that Nintendo consoles have never targeted primarily adults.
Kids want the best graphics if my little cousins are anything to go by.
 
Yeah that was my guess.

But that could rule out a handheld possibly, at least this particular game or demonstration because no handheld at an affordable price is running AAA games at PS4 levels of detail and scope even with unoptimized API's and 540p resolutions.

Kids want the best graphics if my little cousins are anything to go by.

Ehhhh it just depends on the scope of the software right?

Nintendo could totally engineer their games to work on both themselves

They dont need to require anyone else to though Im sure tons of Indies can do the same
 

Rodin

Member
I tried to explain this back in October 2015 to a lot of you guys but it went on deaf ears. Two unrelated sources reported the same type of impressive Tech Demo running on early NX SDK. One of the sources of course more credible than the other with the WSJ being more trusted, but both matching and with Nintendo Forums reporting it 1 day before I confirmed with the WSJ. That was definitely an "OMG...just got real" moment.

I read Nintendoforums' rumor back then, and i was actually ready to believe it (or at least, not to immediately dismiss it) but there was a statement that made it sound like he was making it up, and it was the bolded:
Specifically, one software demo included with the kit crunches so many polygons that it's currently impossible to run at 60fps using a current-generation Intel (we're assuming a Core i7 Skylake) CPU and a nearly top-of-the-line graphics card (no specifics provided, but they probably used a single graphics card).
Saying a core i7 Skylake was having troubles running a software demo for a console that we speculated to be based (in the best case scenario) on ARM A57/72 or Puma cores was just laughable, and i stopped paying attention to that rumor, especially because i remembered very well some things i read before the Wii U's reveal.

But now that i read it again, it's a bit different than what i remembered. He says that they're ASSUMING it's a Skylake i7, non that IT IS a Skylake i7 that's having these issues. For what we know, it was an i5 4460 or Skylake equivalent (i5 6400?). And the near top of the line GPU, which doesn't mean 980ti or Fury X, could very well be a 970 or a 390.

Now of course a 4460 and a 970/390 are way, way more powerful than whatever the NX will use, but it can make sense that a tech demo of a console even in the same ballpark as the Xbox One would cause these troubles AND look fairly impressive for today's standards. Just look at Rise of the Tomb Raider for the PC. That's a game that went through actual development and optimization from a studio to run on current PC hardware. And yes, it's far from being perfectly optimized, it also features some enhancements made for high end PCs, but this is a commercial product, something that was made to be sold to customers. The demo we're talking about here was.. i don't know, an example of what the machine could do? A target render? It certainly wasn't as optimized as a commercial product, so it can make sense that something made for even Xbox One level of hardware, without proper optimization, would have trouble running on far more powerful hardware at 60fps. Software that it's likely to be better optimized than this demo is causing trouble as well. On a side note, there many hints of NX using Vulkan API, and we have benchmarks showing how Vulkan is currently unoptimized (Talos Principle runs better on DX11 than Vulkan).

Now it's impossible to establish if the new console will be more or less powerful than the other two based on this rumor (or others for that matter), and this is definitely not a confirmation of anything of course, but at this point the only thing we have against these reports and the consequent line of thought that the NX will be roughly in the same ballpark as PS4/Xbox One, is ShockingAlberto's laugh, for which we still don't have any context.

Maybe you're right, this guy from nintendoforum and the WSJ guy ("industry leading chips" stuff) had the same or a similar source, and it would be a bit odd if these two heard very similar things, and these things happened to be complete horseshit.
 

10k

Banned
Ehhhh it just depends on the scope of the software right?

Nintendo could totally engineer their games to work on both themselves

They dont need to require anyone else to though Im sure tons of Indies can do the same
No.

NX using i7- 6770 with 980Ti and 16GB of DDR4 confirmed.
 

Malus

Member
but at this point the only thing we have against these reports and the consequent line of thought that the NX will be roughly in the same ballpark as PS4/Xbox One, is ShockingAlberto's laugh, for which we still don't have any context.

A shiver ran down the spine of every gaffer

it echoes
 

Peterc

Member
But we don't know what gimmicks they're gonna put in the NX device(s). Not to mention that Nintendo probably would want to stay low to avoid being undercut by the competition.

I still try to understand gimmick. What is a gimmick for you? Rumble, shoulder buttons??

I wonder what people understand under gimmick?

I believe every controller has his purpose for a specfic genre of game. Like mouse and keyboard is best for fps and not a traditional controller. Even 3d can give more depth to your game like VR, that will be replaced most of the traditional gaming in the near future.
 

Rodin

Member
A shiver ran down the spine of every gaffer

it echoes
rotfl

Yes i know that the guy is credible, otherwise i wouldn't have counted what he has to say, especially considering the gratuitous arrogance he used to dismiss other rumors lately instead of explaining why he doesn't agree. I'm currently trying to figure out what scenario could fit both his reports ("Nintendo won't build an intentionally weak console again" more than "ahaha") and what Trev, Crunchyg and Mochi are saying.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
I still try to understand gimmick. What is a gimmick for you? Rumble, shoulder buttons??

I wonder what people understand under gimmick?

I believe every controller has his purpose for a specfic genre of game. Like mouse and keyboard is best for fps and not a traditional controller. Even 3d can give more depth to your game like VR, that will be replaced most of the traditional gaming in the near future.
I'm talking about something unique about the device(s) that may potentially contribute to the price tag. And even then, given Nintendo's current position in the gaming market, it'd be better for them to go with as low of a barrier-of-entry (price-wise) as realistically possible while selling at a profit from the start. You can't do that if you put the NX Console in a power arms race against the other two.
 

Peterc

Member
I'm talking about something unique about the device(s) that may potentially contribute to the price tag. And even then, given Nintendo's current position in the gaming market, it'd be better for them to go with as low of a barrier-of-entry (price-wise) as realistically possible while selling at a profit from the start. You can't do that if you put the NX Console in a power arms race against the other two.

Ok, i dont think the price tag does the trick. Apple is also one of the best selling company.

If they will make it cheap so the power is compared to xbox1. Why will people want to buy the nx console? MS will make their xonsole even cheaper.

Knowing that both console are already been a while on the markt. I also found many articles are already talking about PS5 rumors.
 
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