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What we know so far about the Nintendo NX with sources

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Fess

Member
This is an old article but it was well written and explains the benefits of the NX going with cartridges
















These quotes are sort of the main talking points in relation to the benefits of it. There is a lot more at the link and I'd suggest giving it a read.

Read more at http://gamingbolt.com/nintendo-nx-w...-work-in-the-big-ns-favor#WD7BSdkGm6vKQm5v.99
While I'd love for consoles to start using cartridges again it would also mean that backwards-compatibility retail games would be excluded.
But maybe they could still get it to work somehow, by ripping/verifying the games through a PC and then linking them to the users Nintendo Account? Could lead to piracy though so that probably won't happen.
 
On the home console I'd expect octo-core A72s. A53s may offer better performance/watt in a mobile/handheld thermal environment, but in an actively cooled environment A72s still give you pretty good efficiency, but with a far higher performance ceiling.

On the handheld either 4 or 8 A53s should be expected (the cores themselves are very small, as far as I can recall a quad-core cluster with L2 cache comes to about 8mm² on a 28nm process). I had previously considered the possibility that they may use A72 cores in the handheld, to minimise the performance gap with the console (as, unlike with the GPU, what's running on the CPU in general doesn't scale linearly with resolution), but to be honest it's likely that you'd have to clock them so low you might as well use A53s, and save a good chunk of die area while you're at it.


Or they could use a 2 A72 core + 2 A53 cores configuration for the handheld, then 8 A72 cores for the home console.
I mean, A72 doesn't consum that much, check Kirin 950 for that.

power-big_575px.png


2 Cores at 1500mhz would be less than a watt. Even at 1ghz, the thing would toast 4 A53 cores and would consum like 650mw.
 

Fess

Member
If the NX truly goes with a cartridge design, it instantly becomes massively appealing to me.

It's that weird or uncommon to feel they way?

The perks of cartridges aside, the tangible nature of it is just so fun to me.
I think lots of us think the same way, it's mostly about nostalgia but it does have it's benefit too with faster loading times and less risk of damaging the games.
About nostalgia though, what if they kind of designed the console similar to the NES too? I'd cry happy tears :)
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Are there development advantages to go with an octocore setup to mirror the ps4/XB1 in terms of writing/porting multithreaded code?
 

Pokemaniac

Member
While I'd love for consoles to start using cartridges again it would also mean that backwards-compatibility retail games would be excluded.
But maybe they could still get it to work somehow, by ripping/verifying the games through a PC and then linking them to the users Nintendo Account? Could lead to piracy though so that probably won't happen.

Or they could just sell a USB disc drive.
 
Or they could use a 2 A72 core + 2 A53 cores configuration for the handheld, then 8 A72 cores for the home console.
I mean, A72 doesn't consum that much, check Kirin 950 for that.

power-big_575px.png


2 Cores at 1500mhz would be less than a watt. Even at 1ghz, the thing would toast 4 A53 cores and would consum like 650mw.

Why can't they wait for K12?
 
I honestly feel at this stage that the 3ds replacement will come this year but the home console will be 2017. It seems to me that there are sufficient Wii U games either unreleased or unannounced to carry 2016. I also feel like Nintendo will line up some big guns for launch and late 2016 is too soon.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Or they could use a 2 A72 core + 2 A53 cores configuration for the handheld, then 8 A72 cores for the home console.
I mean, A72 doesn't consum that much, check Kirin 950 for that.

power-big_575px.png


2 Cores at 1500mhz would be less than a watt. Even at 1ghz, the thing would toast 4 A53 cores and would consum like 650mw.
That's great but
  • That's TSMC's 16FF+, whereas 28nm has much better chances with NX, hh or home.
  • 2x A72 would still be the same die area, regardless of the clock. And that'd be many times over the die area of 4x A53. In a game console those transistors might be better used for GPU, caches, eDRAM, etc.
I'm of the opinion an A53 cluster is what we'll get in the hh. But we shall see ; )

Why can't they wait for K12?
K12 is not a 2016 product.
 
This whole cartridges + cross OS seems like... an impossible task to do right, let alone for Nintendo.

Combine this with the whole 3rd party relations issue, NX seems like an impossible bet right now.

Hope it works for the company and let's see what they have to offer.
 

Tarin02543

Member
If the NX truly goes with a cartridge design, it instantly becomes massively appealing to me.

It's that weird or uncommon to feel they way?

The perks of cartridges aside, the tangible nature of it is just so fun to me.

Same. This time around its technical capabilities are not as important to me, the fact that it uses cartridges means the game will hold their value much longer.
 

AzaK

Member
This whole cartridges + cross OS seems like... an impossible task to do right, let alone for Nintendo.

Combine this with the whole 3rd party relations issue, NX seems like an impossible bet right now.

Hope it works for the company and let's see what they have to offer.

Agreed. All the patents and wishes seem far, far too beyond Nintendo to pull off in the short time they've had. Therefore it's better to expect something a lot simpler.
 

maxcriden

Member
Agreed. All the patents and wishes seem far, far too beyond Nintendo to pull off in the short time they've had. Therefore it's better to expect something a lot simpler.

Which short time do you mean, though? I'd imagine development on NX started shortly after Wii U launched, and that R&D ramped up considerably faster than usual when Nintendo saw how poorly Wii U was selling.
 

Datschge

Member
Which short time do you mean, though? I'd imagine development on NX started shortly after Wii U launched, and that R&D ramped up considerably faster than usual when Nintendo saw how poorly Wii U was selling.
It's also likely that NERD worked on the software side of things since they joined Nintendo.
 
Which short time do you mean, though? I'd imagine development on NX started shortly after Wii U launched, and that R&D ramped up considerably faster than usual when Nintendo saw how poorly Wii U was selling.

Iwata talked about the joint architecture plans as soon as the January after the Wii U launched, and said they started the previous year. So may have been before the Wii U launched even.
 
This whole cartridges + cross OS seems like... an impossible task to do right, let alone for Nintendo.

Combine this with the whole 3rd party relations issue, NX seems like an impossible bet right now.

Hope it works for the company and let's see what they have to offer.

I think the only thing that seems really out of Nintendo's comfort zone is the sharing processing power through the internet stuff.

An OS that powers a handheld and a homeconsole is nothing extraordinary in 2016, as is quality of life stuff like sharing savegames/transfarring and all the stuff you'd expect from NX's "brother and sister"-dynamic.

Sony already got it almost right.
 
R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
The Fro always wins! Beat me to it. Here's a link to the full report if anyone wants to download it:

http://v4.eir-parts.net/v4Contents/View.aspx?template=ir_material&sid=49090&code=2432

Speaking of such things, no sign of the official Nintendo Q&A translation yet. I'll be keeping my eye out for DeNA's too.
The only thing we got from the transcript in terms of NX was that Mr. Kimishima didn't want to talk about things outside the current fiscal year. Well, at least not NX.
 

Eradicate

Member
Saw a neat little article on the Nintendo/DeNA partnership (http://fortune.com/2016/02/04/nintendo-social-mobile-app/).

It kind of sounds like Miitomo has a bigger role than I thought in connecting their platforms and accounts, and in building a community. The statement was also made about "messaging, micro-transactions, and rewards [working] across all platforms." This is all going to be interesting to see how Nintendo sets up this infrastructure and ecosystem!

Rösti;194314613 said:
The only thing we got from the transcript in terms of NX was that Mr. Kimishima didn't want to talk about things outside the current fiscal year. Well, at least not NX.

Thank you for sharing that!
 

Peru

Member
Obviously all the Nintendo mobile apps have to promote their core business - every user of a theoretical Nintendo mobile game has to get the feeling that if they buy an NX console then this experience too will be better. Rewards, communication, cross play.
 

TheMoon

Member
RE: cartridge format - I'd be all for that if it were really feasible for manufacturing and licensing costs since that's what you always keep hearing is costing people the big bucks. N64 carts cost $17 to produce, iirc (source: that Angel Studios write up about RE2 64).

Miyamoto is always the producer, rarely the director. Check your game credits and you'll see.

I wish people would realize that Miyamoto hasn't had a director's credit since, what, Ocarina of Time? Jjust checked, his latest directorial credit is actually Mario Artist on the 64DD from 1999! Meaning Miyamoto has not directed a game this century.
 

maxcriden

Member
I wish people would realize that Miyamoto hasn't had a director's credit since, what, Ocarina of Time? Jjust checked, his latest directorial credit is actually Mario Artist on the 64DD from 1999! Meaning Miyamoto has not directed a game this century.

That's true, but FWIW my understanding is the role of a game director at Nintendo is a bit different than ordinarily thought of at other companies. It's a bit less overseeing than we normally think of, and the person or people listed as producer is a bit more hands-on than we usually think of the producer of a game as being. So Miyamoto with Pikmin 3 for example was a lot more hands-on as a producer I think than, say, Aeron Guy as Senior Producer on M&M's Break 'Em.
 

TheMoon

Member
That's true, but FWIW my understanding is the role of a game director at Nintendo is a bit different than ordinarily thought of at other companies. It's a bit less overseeing than we normally think of, and the person or people listed as producer is a bit more hands-on than we usually think of the producer of a game as being. So Miyamoto with Pikmin 3 for example was a lot more hands-on as a producer I think than, say, Aeron Guy as Senior Producer on M&M's Break 'Em.

Sure, sure. Still, it's a worthwhile distinction. From all the Iwata Asks I've read, the process seems to boil down to director making all the nitty gritty decisions with their other designers, then showing them to producer who then gives feedback, suggests changes or different approaches and then director goes back to the team with that and figures out how to implement that.
 
That's true, but FWIW my understanding is the role of a game director at Nintendo is a bit different than ordinarily thought of at other companies. It's a bit less overseeing than we normally think of, and the person or people listed as producer is a bit more hands-on than we usually think of the producer of a game as being. So Miyamoto with Pikmin 3 for example was a lot more hands-on as a producer I think than, say, Aeron Guy as Senior Producer on M&M's Break 'Em.

This... if you think Miyamoto doesn't have a big say in a lot of games just because he's not listed as 'director' you'd be out of your mind.
 

10k

Banned
RE: cartridge format - I'd be all for that if it were really feasible for manufacturing and licensing costs since that's what you always keep hearing is costing people the big bucks. N64 carts cost $17 to produce, iirc (source: that Angel Studios write up about RE2 64).



I wish people would realize that Miyamoto hasn't had a director's credit since, what, Ocarina of Time? Jjust checked, his latest directorial credit is actually Mario Artist on the 64DD from 1999! Meaning Miyamoto has not directed a game this century.
Right but the carts NX would use would be more similar to the vita or 3DS in size but range from 1GB-64GB. It'll cost publishers less than $5 for a 32GB cart which is bigger than a standard blu day of 25GB.
 

TheMoon

Member
Right but the carts NX would use would be more similar to the vita or 3DS in size but range from 1GB-64GB. It'll cost publishers less than $5 for a 32GB cart which is bigger than a standard blu day of 25GB.

I hope that's what it ends up being then. I like me some carts, especially when compact and durable.

What if they even sold "empty" rewritable carts that you could put otherwise download-only games on for use on the portable when logging in with the owner ID (for when you don't have internet access and can't just redownload it on the other device).

All of this also makes me recall the speculative concepts people were throwing around in the 2012 WUSTs about some kind of ID card that you could swipe in stores and whatever that would have your account info on there and tie all your stuff together and maybe even carry save games. NFC galore.
 

Eradicate

Member
I hope that's what it ends up being then. I like me some carts, especially when compact and durable.

What if they even sold "empty" rewritable carts that you could put otherwise download-only games on for use on the portable when logging in with the owner ID (for when you don't have internet access and can't just redownload it on the other device).

All of this also makes me recall the speculative concepts people were throwing around in the 2012 WUSTs about some kind of ID card that you could swipe in stores and whatever that would have your account info on there and tie all your stuff together and maybe even carry save games. NFC galore.

That is an interesting thought with selling rewritable carts. From another standpoint, it could help out consumers and retail businesses too. For those with bandwidth limits and such, you could go to GameStop or somewhere and be able to download the game and put it on a cart. They would make money on the cart and maybe a portion if the sale happened via a "card" you could buy there. (Think of a parent not wanting their kid to have billing information and such connected to their account. You'd just do the purchase at a register.) It would also help with challenges/costs related to inventory in store.

Speaking of cartridges, assuming they go with them, I imagine it is a non-negligible power savings compared to optical drives. (Maybe not a lot, but still something.) Assuming it plays out, I wonder if such power savings would then go towards improved performance or if they'll simply keep the power consumption of the whole unit lower and aim for a smaller size? (I'd have to think an optical drive takes up a lot of console space that could either be filled with circuitry or eliminated for a smaller footprint.)

I just get this feeling that it'll be cartridges and/or possibly an external optical drive like Pokemaniac mentioned. I see it being cartridges more, personally. An external optical drive that likely doesn't have any other function but to load up NX games seems somewhat like a wasted opportunity. (I'd figure they wouldn't include the ability to play DVD/Blu-ray movies or anything like that.) I think they will likely let you use an external hard drive for storage. But, cartridges can also function similarly, more easily than, say, burning discs to use in the external optical drive. Just my thoughts. I welcome the return of carts too if that's what they do!
 

TheMoon

Member
That is an interesting thought with selling rewritable carts. From another standpoint, it could help out consumers and retail businesses too. For those with bandwidth limits and such, you could go to GameStop or somewhere and be able to download the game and put it on a cart. They would make money on the cart and maybe a portion if the sale happened via a "card" you could buy there. (Think of a parent not wanting their kid to have billing information and such connected to their account. You'd just do the purchase at a register.)

NX = Satellaview 2.0
 

thefro

Member
I just get this feeling that it'll be cartridges and/or possibly an external optical drive like Pokemaniac mentioned. I see it being cartridges more, personally. An external optical drive that likely doesn't have any other function but to load up NX games seems somewhat like a wasted opportunity. (I'd figure they wouldn't include the ability to play DVD/Blu-ray movies or anything like that.) I think they will likely let you use an external hard drive for storage. But, cartridges can also function similarly, more easily than, say, burning discs to use in the external optical drive. Just my thoughts. I welcome the return of carts too if that's what they do!

I think what type of read speeds you get from the carts versus the optical drive versus the internal storage will be key.

Ideally the carts would be fast enough to where you wouldn't need to install a XB1/PS4 port on the internal hard drive, but I think only the super-high end SD cards reach that level of speeds right now.
 
I’ve been thinking a bit about the size and form factor of the handheld over the last couple of days. Curious, I whipped out the old ruler and took to measuring up my trusty 3DS XL. The device is nearly 6” in length and actually very close in size to the widest portion of the Wii U Pro Controller (the grip bottoms). This is also quite similar to the lengths of both the Dual Shock 4 and Wii Remote. I was struck by what is probably obvious: hardware designers have pretty much reached an agreement on how long a controller needs to be in order for the user to enjoy comfortable ergonomics. As most of us well know, what makes for a good handheld does not necessarily make for a good stationary console controller. A handheld should be able to easily slip into one’s pocket. Thus, a slender body and low profile buttons are advantageous. Naturally, your average home console controller is expected to include full-sized analog sticks and a nice chunky grip portion.

Disclaimer: At this point, I’m pretty much convinced that Nintendo have opted to include the Free Form Displays from Sharp. We’ve got two independent sources on the topic (the initial reports from Kyodo and the much discussed patent) and it does seem like a very “Nintendo” thing to do. It also appears to be a realistic option, at least in terms of price, as Sharp are a current Nintendo partner and have also been struggling a bit as of late (much like AMD). These factors might allow Nintendo to get a decent price on this tech.

Speaking of the patent, a few tentative conclusions:


  • The handheld will NOT feature the grip portion pictured—an attachment similar to the Circle Pad Pro makes more sense here.
  • Without a Grip portion, the edges of the elliptical design, as pictured in the patent, may be too sharp for comfort.
  • A track shaped design would resemble the PS Vita a bit too much.
With these points considered, we are left with the oval shape as the only remaining form mentioned by the patent (ignoring "square"—uqh). As I see it, the optimal design would include rounded but wide side portions (think Vita) for comfort and button placement while retaining the strikingly curved top portion of the device. That top is nice for displaying the “dome” of the skies above. Here is an example of an interesting egg-shaped phone design (disregard the curved screen). The base of an egg is somewhat wider than the top, but Nintendo might alternately opt for a true ellipse with equal ends. Sharp showed a similar design featuring their Free Form Display. Just picture it a bit longer.

This leads to the issue which has everyone worried: button placement. In a handheld design, the lower inputs (in Nintendo’s case, the dpad and face buttons) are forced into a position almost directly beneath the upper inputs (analog sticks here) in order to provide enough space for the display. The free form patent stresses the importance of hiding traditional sticks and buttons underneath the thumbs of the user in order to create an immersive effect. This is generally accomplished if the lower inputs are directly beneath the sticks. Also mentioned is an unobstructed 16:9 viewing area between the inputs. This rules out the narrower placement of the lower inputs found in traditional controllers, such as the Wii U Pro and DS4. One must ask if there is truly room for all those inputs on the narrow ends of an elliptical or oval-shaped device.

I think some of these points are worth considering in future mockups. IHS apparently have sources which detail the NX handheld as including an LCD between 3” and 5”. Something around the 4.88” 16:9 viewing area of the new 3DS XL is probably to be expected. The free form patent also mentions, as one of its core innovations, the ability to increase screen size without enlarging the overall device, so it would be somewhat contradictory of them to aim for a smaller display. Still, I wonder about the face buttons’ and dpad’s roles in such a device. If they are on there, they would need to be almost directly underneath the sticks and also quite small, as in current handhelds.

I'm interested in what shape(s) people can imagine as both suitably functional and attention-grabbing. I'd also like to hear opinions on which (if any) face inputs might be modified or discarded in the name of simplicity and elegance.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Rösti;194337476 said:
Not as tight as one may think, but it'll do.
Get him, gaf! /runs for the pitchfork
 
Rösti;194337476 said:
Not as tight as one may think, but it'll do.

Oh Id much rather they spilled the beans on the whole thing

Its not like we dont have a somewhat clear picture of their future direction. Still you ache for the slightest hint at what the hardware will actually be
 

ReyVGM

Member
I wish people would realize that Miyamoto hasn't had a director's credit since, what, Ocarina of Time? Jjust checked, his latest directorial credit is actually Mario Artist on the 64DD from 1999! Meaning Miyamoto has not directed a game this century.

He didn't direct Ocarina of Time either ;)

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R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
Get him, gaf! /runs for the pitchfork
Don't worry, I won't start any hype circus again. I can tell though the ship in recent weeks became much tighter than it was before, in multiple aspects. But there are still some things that could be done for further fortification.

They also recently changed NDA policies. I don't have any specifics on this, but I believe it mainly concerned the overarching NDAs for development (not necessarily the one for NX, which is a separate document).
 
Rösti;194338163 said:
Don't worry, I won't start any hype circus again. I can tell though the ship in recent weeks became much tighter than it was before, in multiple aspects. But there are still some things that could be done for further fortification.

If that Financial briefing was any indication

They want the transition to be very deliberate and strategic

Its probably already bad enough that they had to jump to the next machine so early and they likely still have a little steam left in the old engine to push some more WiiU/3DS stock out before the big push for NX
 
Rösti;194338163 said:
Don't worry, I won't start any hype circus again. I can tell though the ship in recent weeks became much tighter than it was before, in multiple aspects. But there are still some things that could be done for further fortification.

Can't be any tighter than the N64 controller. Weren't devs required to stick their hands into some type of "mystery box" so that others couldn't see it, even while in use?

If that Financial briefing was any indication

They want the transition to be very deliberate and strategic

Its probably already bad enough that they had to jump to the next machine so early and they likely still have a little steam left in the old engine to push some more WiiU/3DS stock out before the big push for NX
What if Kimishima himself is NDA'd!?
 

10k

Banned
Rösti;194338163 said:
Don't worry, I won't start any hype circus again. I can tell though the ship in recent weeks became much tighter than it was before, in multiple aspects. But there are still some things that could be done for further fortification.

They also recently changed NDA policies. I don't have any specifics on this, but I believe it mainly concerned the overarching NDAs for development (not necessarily the one for NX, which is a separate document).
Jesus this thing is annoying the hell out of me. Lol. Is it a console, a handhel, both? Something new and revolutionary or some standard console and controller? I don't want to wait till June to find out. I got budgeting to do lol.
 
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