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[DrROBschiz]

I cant help but see a degree of tension and sensitivity for the company regarding the new platform

Jesus this thing is annoying the hell out of me. Lol. Is it a console, a handhel, both? Something new and revolutionary or some standard console and controller? I don't want to wait till June to find out. I got budgeting to do lol.

Fuck man you aint kiddin

2016 is basically wallet massacre right now.

Im fairly confident they at the very least we wont have a launch for this till closer to the holidays after the reveal so thats nice

 

[10k]

Can't be any tighter than the N64 controller. Weren't devs required to stick their hands into some type of "mystery box" so that others couldn't see it, even while in use?


What if Kimishima himself is NDA'd!?

Yup that was a requirement for the N64 NDA. The joystick and Z-Button were revolutionary.

I cant help but see a degree of tension and sensitivity for the company regarding the new platform



Fuck man you aint kiddin

2016 is basically wallet massacre right now.

Im fairly confident they at the very least we wont have a launch for this till closer to the holidays after the reveal so thats nice

It could also be Nintendo doesn't want mixed messaging this time with leaks as those tend to raise expectations and they want to control the message entirely.

But what exactly does Nintendo do that Sony and Microsoft couldn't do in regards to NDA's? Sony and Microsoft have much more money than Nintendo and sent dev kits to a lot more studios than Nintendo ever does yet Orbis and Durango were constantly leaked.

Is it because Nintendo has stricter NDA than those companies had, or is it because less people outside of Nintendo have NX dev kits compared to the Wii U, which was leaked consistently by Ubisoft and TT games.

 

[maxcriden]

Can't be any tighter than the N64 controller. Weren't devs required to stick their hands into some type of "mystery box" so that others couldn't see it, even while in use?

That's amazing. Source please if you can find one! I'd love to read about that.

 

[TheMoon]

He didn't direct Ocarina of Time either

Then someone needs to fix his wikipedia page

 

[Vena]

Don't worry, I won't start any hype circus again. I can tell though the ship in recent weeks became much tighter than it was before, in multiple aspects. But there are still some things that could be done for further fortification.

They also recently changed NDA policies. I don't have any specifics on this, but I believe it mainly concerned the overarching NDAs for development (not necessarily the one for NX, which is a separate document).

I wonder if the recent Paper Mario and Mother 3 leaks aren't the cause for this.

 

[10k]

Maybe Nintendo will do what Sony did with LBP3 and cross port Paper Mario, Zelda and maybe Star Fox. Who knows?

 

[doop_]

We will get to 100 pages without any new information.

 

[Deleted member 465307]

I know it has been said that the Wii U's CPU is a big part of what limits the console. In this thread, there's been a lot of discussion of what CPUs Nintendo could put in their portable and home console NXs. Should I expect the portable NX to have a CPU that is comparable to or surpasses the Wii U's?

 

[AlStrong]

We will get to 100 pages without any new information.

That's kind of a drop in the bucket compared to WiiU.

 

[Peru]

We will get to 100 pages without any new information.

Instead I've started reading up on the development process of the N64.

 

[10k]

I know it has been said that the Wii U's CPU is a big part of what limits the console. In this thread, there's been a lot of discussion of what CPUs Nintendo could put in their portable and home console NXs. Should I expect the portable NX to have a CPU that is comparable to or surpasses the Wii U's?

It'll surpass even the PS4 CPU if it used modern ARMv8 CPUs.

 

[blu]

It'll surpass even the PS4 CPU if it used modern ARMv8 CPUs.

That it cannot do. That would require 8x A57/A72 @1.5GHz+, and no such hh SoCs exist today.

 

[ElTorro]

I know it has been said that the Wii U's CPU is a big part of what limits the console. In this thread, there's been a lot of discussion of what CPUs Nintendo could put in their portable and home console NXs. Should I expect the portable NX to have a CPU that is comparable to or surpasses the Wii U's?

That depends on whether they want to bring AAA developers back on board. An issue with the Wii U was that it tried to do that but wasn't spec'd accordingly. Nintendo might also follow a sound concept where they build a low-performance but cheap platform for Nintendo games and mobile games. This could work if the price is right. There might be a market for a cheap console that offers family-friendly games and also works as a secondary gaming system for enthusiasts. In that case, it might not matter that much if the performance does not reach PS4/XBO levels.

 

[Deleted member 465307]

That depends on whether they want to bring AAA developers back on board. An issue with the Wii U was that it tried to do that but wasn't spec'd accordingly. Nintendo might also follow a sound concept where they build a low-performance but cheap platform for Nintendo games and mobile games. This could work if the price is right. There might be a market for a cheap console that offers family-friendly games and also works as a secondary gaming system for enthusiasts. In that case, it might not matter that much if the performance does not reach PS4/XBO levels.

Well, I don't really think much about if a portable can match the PS4/X1 (even though I understand the leading theory of the two pieces of NX hardware being related in some way). I'm specifically wondering if a portable NX would have a CPU comparable to a Wii U and thus be able to handle Wii U ports or games at an equivalent level.

 

[Hermii]

That depends on whether they want to bring AAA developers back on board. An issue with the Wii U was that it tried to do that but wasn't spec'd accordingly. Nintendo might also follow a sound concept where they build a low-performance but cheap platform for Nintendo games and mobile games. This could work if the price is right. There might be a market for a cheap console that offers family-friendly games and also works as a secondary gaming system for enthusiasts. In that case, it might not matter that much if the performance does not reach PS4/XBO levels.

Wouldn't it be pretty cheap to reach xbox one levels now 3 years later?

But I know you could say the same about 360 level 7 years later

 

[Eradicate]

Didn't mean to push post

I have no idea what that phrase means.

NX = Satellaview 2.0

Just...awesome! All for it!

I think what type of read speeds you get from the carts versus the optical drive versus the internal storage will be key.

Ideally the carts would be fast enough to where you wouldn't need to install a XB1/PS4 port on the internal hard drive, but I think only the super-high end SD cards reach that level of speeds right now.

I didn't really consider the cart read speed, but that's a very good point. I guess then the internal hard drive/memory would have to temporarily hold it. They probably wouldn't go super-high end just for cost purposes.

I'm interested in what shape(s) people can imagine as both suitably functional and attention-grabbing. I'd also like to hear opinions on which (if any) face inputs might be modified or discarded in the name of simplicity and elegance.

I liked everything you wrote, and I think it's an interesting. With a freeform display, the display could really be in about any configuration. However, I think in considering portability, you're looking at a pocket or bag. The best shapes for both tend to be elongated somehow, either like a rectangle or oval. There are some pros and cons to both. I think rectangles are easier to hold, match the shape of square internals, and lend themselves to cases and such fairly easily. However, they are somewhat blah in appearance, usually cause excess wasted space, and tend to take up more space in a pocket. Ovals look cool, less space is wasted, and are more portable since they can slide around somewhat more. However, they don't match square internals and could cause wasted hardware space inside, only really would fit great into a "sleeve," and may be harder to hold overall.

I think another consideration is the possibility of shoulder scroll wheels. In my mind, that seems harder to use on an oval body. I also think that holding onto the thing will be hard without the grips, but they are necessary to get rid of for portability purposes.

I like that red phone picture. I could see it being held lengthwise and a slider. When you need the D-Pad, Home, Select, and two face buttons (A and B), you slide it out. Your shoulder buttons (maybe scroll wheels) are attached to this bottom part so that the screen always covers your hand. Otherwise, you can keep the thing closed and have your Circle Pad with the screen wrapped around it. All other buttons the game actually wants you to use are touchscreen but which provide feedback. I'm just thinking that the free form display isn't going to be used in any insane ways and will primarily be to allow the Circle Pad to be amidst the screen. I think that this way might also allow it to be used like a controller for the console and provide touchpad capabilities. In this view, I'd guess the NX console would have something like the Wii U Pro controller, just with scroll wheels (maybe!), and the handheld enables extra capabilities and things with its touchpad.

But, hey, with a free form display, they could do all sorts of crazy things I haven't thought of. I'm sure they'd want to sell faceplates, cases/covers, have special editions, etc., so surely they wouldn't want to go too crazy!

 

[Thraktor]

Or they could use a 2 A72 core + 2 A53 cores configuration for the handheld, then 8 A72 cores for the home console.
I mean, A72 doesn't consum that much, check Kirin 950 for that.

2 Cores at 1500mhz would be less than a watt. Even at 1ghz, the thing would toast 4 A53 cores and would consum like 650mw.

As Blu pointed out, that's on TSMC's 16nm tech, whereas most of us are expecting a 28nm SoC in the handheld. Aside from that, it comes down to the amount of thermal and die budget devoted to the CPU (which may be sub 500mW and 10mm² for all we know), and how they can maximise performance within those constraints. A pair of A72s would have to clock sub-500MHz at 28nm to fit under 500mW, while a quad-A53 cluster at the same power draw may be running at three times the clock speed, which would more than cancel out the IPC advantages of the A72.

In fact the next graph below yours in the Anandtech article is quite illustrative of this:

Effectively, what the graph shows is that at very low thermal/power budgets, an A53 will actually outperform an A72, and as your thermal budget goes up (i.e. as you move to the right in the graph*) the lines intersect, and above a certain point the A72 offers higher performance (which is exactly why you get big.little SoCs like this). The thing is, Nintendo wouldn't be choosing between one A53 and one A72, as they're going to squeeze a lot more A53s onto their die. Assuming 2 A53 cores take up the same space as one A72, the graph would have to be adjusted by stretching the A53 curve like so:

I've quickly added a 2x A53 curve to show the effects. With one A53 vs one A72, the crossover point (where the A72 starts to offer better perf/W) is around 450. With two A53s vs one A72, it moves the whole way up to somewhere around 1200. Similarly, if we were to have a graph with Watts on the X axis, we would see the crossover point move pretty far to the right. We don't have the data to actually create such a graph for 28nm (which would tell us definitively whether more A53s or fewer A72s would offer better performance in any given power envelope), but I'd be pretty confident in saying that the crossover point is well beyond the power envelope Nintendo would be dedicating to the CPU in a handheld.

At 16nm, though, we can actually deduce the crossover point. We know that it's around a score of 1200 in SPECint, and from the same article we know that the A72 scores 0.77 per MHz, so that gives us a frequency of about 1.56GHz, and from your graph that would mean the crossover point is about 1W for a dual-core A72 module vs a quad-core A53 module (again using a very simple approximation of the die area relation between the two). So, if Nintendo were to dedicate more than 1W of their power budget to the CPU, they'd be better off going with dual-core A72s, and if they're dedicating less than 1W they'd be better off using quad-core A53s. If the die area allocated to the CPU is such that they're comparing eight A53 cores to four A72s, then you're pushing the crossover point up even further to about 1.6W.

Hence, given the history of Nintendo's handheld designs, and the kind of power budget division between CPU and GPU in modern consoles, I would be extremely surprised if, even at 16nm, Nintendo were to use A72 cores in the handheld.

(There is one extreme outside case, where they end up with something like a 16-core A53 CPU, in which case they may take the performance hit of going with eight A72s to simplify things for developers, but I very much doubt that's going to happen.)

*Although this graphs performance on the X axis as opposed to power consumption, as performance monotonically increases wrt power consumption, a graph with Watts on the X axis would end up looking very similar, and would show the same effect with regards to doubling the number of A53s, as in my second graph.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

He didn't direct Ocarina of Time either

Mario 64 was the last game he directed IIRC not counting the 64DD game.

Once could say Miyamoto has only directed one game since video games went 3d actually.

Spoiler

He picked a good one to direct

 

[wild wild rice]

This thread seems deeply abstract and tangential at this point. Anyone ever read Don DeLillo's book, Ratner's Star? Kinda like that.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

This thread seems deeply abstract and tangential at this point. Anyone ever read Don DeLillo's book, Ratner's Star? Kinda like that.

When you have almost zero info to speculate about, creative minds take place

 

[maxcriden]

Maybe Nintendo will do what Sony did with LBP3 and cross port Paper Mario, Zelda and maybe Star Fox. Who knows?

Hard to picture them bothering porting SF0, especially when it has niche appeal and is designed to show off the GamePad. The others, and especially Pikmin 4, I could see happening. (Unless it's already an NX exclusive to begin with, that is.)

 

[Sammy Samusu]

I'm loving the secrecy.

 

[methodman]

I'm loving the secrecy.

I do too but I just hope it doesn't mean another weak console. lol

 

[Roo]

Wouldn't it be pretty cheap to reach xbox one levels now 3 years later?

But I know you could say the same about 360 level 7 years later

Wii U matched PS360 power levels without much effort. In that aspect it was "cheap"

It was the Gamepad that raised the costs of the entire product to stupid levels making Nintendo to take a loss when Wii U was first released.


In terms of power it *shouldn't* be expensive for Nintendo to come up with a console on par with XBox One/ PS4.
It all comes down to whether or not they go with yet another expensive gimmick lowering the chances for the console to reach said levels.

 

[ElTorro]

In terms of power it *shouldn't* be expensive for Nintendo to come up with a console on par with XBox One/ PS4.

But even then, they would only match the price of PS4/XBO at the time of the NX home console's release. I was thinking of undercutting the price and aiming for 150-200 bucks. Basically a variant of the handheld's tech with up-clocked chips and/or mildly more ALUs. Basically a slightly more expensive micro-console, but one that has the Nintendo name and a line-up of high-quality Nintendo games with a more polished user experience. Should Nintendo come to the conclusion that they cannot compete in the market of platforms for AAA games, this would be a sensible alternative.

 

[blu]

I'm loving the secrecy.

What's an NX - a miserable pile o

 

[maxcriden]

What's an NX - a miserable pile o

Takamaru is busy today 😨

 

[TheMoon]

Takamaru is busy today 😨

leaking launch games left and right?

 

[10k]

I'm loving the secrecy.

To me secrecy means they're embarrassed to show off another weak console with a gimmick. They'd be bragging and letting devs hype up stuff on twitter with controlled leaks otherwise.

"The NX is gonna be awesome"
"We ported our game over quickly with few optimizations"
"It can handle pretty much anything we throw at it"
"Man you're all gonna love this controller"

 

[javac]

To me secrecy means they're embarrassed to show off another weak console with a gimmick. They'd be bragging and letting devs hype up stuff on twitter with controlled leaks otherwise.

"The NX is gonna be awesome"
"We ported our game over quickly with few optimizations"
"It can handle pretty much anything we throw at it"
"Man you're all gonna love this controller"

That's not how any of this works.

 

[Sadist]

At this rate I'm starting to think that 10k is Dragonsworne's alt account

 

[Mpl90]

At this rate I'm starting to think that 10k is Dragonsworne's alt account

Nah. Dragonsworne hasn't been this positive about Nintendo (10k isn't 100% negative about Nintendo) since, well, before Japanese sales numbers (aka reality) hit his face violently, turning him in the user we all love and respect today. 10k seems more like the pre-Flanderisation of Dragonsworne, almost like his/her soul split when reality happened.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

To me secrecy means they're embarrassed to show off another weak console with a gimmick. They'd be bragging and letting devs hype up stuff on twitter with controlled leaks otherwise.

"The NX is gonna be awesome"
"We ported our game over quickly with few optimizations"
"It can handle pretty much anything we throw at it"
"Man you're all gonna love this controller"

Must be satire or a parody post or sarcastic.

 

[GustyGardens]

To me secrecy means they're embarrassed to show off another weak console with a gimmick. They'd be bragging and letting devs hype up stuff on twitter with controlled leaks otherwise.

"The NX is gonna be awesome"
"We ported our game over quickly with few optimizations"
"It can handle pretty much anything we throw at it"
"Man you're all gonna love this controller"

Devs hyped up the Wii U. Let's not forget that.

 

[AdanVC]

So after this week of investors meeting is safe to say that NX will probably be revealed till E3 or can we expect a brief NX mention on the next meeting before E3? or perhaps a surprise event? anything?

 

[watershed]

To me secrecy means they're embarrassed to show off another weak console with a gimmick. They'd be bragging and letting devs hype up stuff on twitter with controlled leaks otherwise.

"The NX is gonna be awesome"
"We ported our game over quickly with few optimizations"
"It can handle pretty much anything we throw at it"
"Man you're all gonna love this controller"

Skepticism is good but this is a bit crazy. Nintendo isn't talking about the NX because it isn't time yet according to their own planning and intentions. I don't know how you can read embarrassment thru the little they have said or haven't said about it.

 

[GustyGardens]

So after this week of investors meeting is safe to say that NX will probably be revealed till E3 or can we expect a brief NX mention on the next meeting before E3? or perhaps a surprise event? anything?

At this point, I'd be surprised if we see it before E3. I'd be surprised to even hear about before then. As long as they're talking to developers and publishers, that's all that matters right now. Waiting until E3 to show it off to consumers is fine, as it's closer to their release date thus keeping fresh the minds of would-be consumers.

I just hope it's good enough that those consumers have it in their minds for the right reasons.

 

[Pokemaniac]

So after this week of investors meeting is safe to say that NX will probably be revealed till E3 or can we expect a brief NX mention on the next meeting before E3? or perhaps a surprise event? anything?

I'm pretty sure their next investor briefing is in early May. We'll likely hear something there, though if this trend continues, that something may just be "wait until E3".

A pre-E3 reveal for the hardware definitely isn't out of the question, though with how things went at the investor meeting, I doubt it would happen before April or May.

 

[Deleted member 465307]

So after this week of investors meeting is safe to say that NX will probably be revealed till E3 or can we expect a brief NX mention on the next meeting before E3? or perhaps a surprise event? anything?

Well, in early May, they should be releasing their full year financials. At that same time, I believe they will offer a preliminary estimate of what the upcoming fiscal year financials will be, as well as offer a brief write-up of what to expect ahead. This is based on what was released last year. As a result, if they are launching a new system in the upcoming fiscal year, I believe they will likely have to say something then in order to explain their financial estimates. So I think we should have SOMETHING new in early May. I also believe the Q&A session will likely have more questions, and Kimishima will have a harder time saying "we're not talking about that today" if it's directly related to something they have put on their financials release and that will heavily affect their financials. So we might even get more vague quotes!

 

[Sammy Samusu]

To me secrecy means they're embarrassed to show off another weak console with a gimmick. They'd be bragging and letting devs hype up stuff on twitter with controlled leaks otherwise.

"The NX is gonna be awesome"
"We ported our game over quickly with few optimizations"
"It can handle pretty much anything we throw at it"
"Man you're all gonna love this controller"

It's time for y'all to accept the fact that Nintendo doesn't give many fucks about specs, their focus is to offer new experiences.

 

[10k]

That's not how any of this works.

Must be satire or a parody post or sarcastic.

Poo gets it.

Devs hyped up the Wii U. Let's not forget that.

Skepticism is good but this is a bit crazy. Nintendo isn't talking about the NX because it isn't time yet according to their own planning and intentions. I don't know how you can read embarrassment thru the little they have said or haven't said about it.

It's time for y'all to accept the fact that Nintendo doesn't give many fucks about specs, their focus is to offer new experiences.

Guys, guys. I thought my post history would indicate I'm very sarcastic and like dry humor lol. It was a joke.

 

[iMax]

So after this week of investors meeting is safe to say that NX will probably be revealed till E3 or can we expect a brief NX mention on the next meeting before E3? or perhaps a surprise event? anything?

I'd imagine you'll get a Direct before. Probably May.

No hardware showing. Just controller and concept, as usual.

 

[deriks]

I'd imagine you'll get a Direct before. Probably May.

No hardware showing. Just controller and concept, as usual.

People will be very upset. Sony and Microsoft did well by showing their consoles in their events. Hell, even Nintendo did right with the Wii. They need to show the console, and how pretty he is. Like a minute of shots in a lot of angles. It needs to glow in our eyes.

 

[-Horizon-]

They have to show the actual console front and center. Just showing the controller is asking for a Wii U repeat.

 

[10k]

They have to show the actual console front and center. Just showing the controller is asking for a Wii U repeat.

"Is....is it an add on for the Wii like the Wii U was guys? I don't get it."

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

So after this week of investors meeting is safe to say that NX will probably be revealed till E3 or can we expect a brief NX mention on the next meeting before E3? or perhaps a surprise event? anything?

Probably some official mention around GDC, in anticipation of leaks. A lot of loose lips around that conference.

 

[Vena]

"Is....is it an add on for the Wii like the Wii U was guys? I don't get it."

I found the controller! I've spoiled it for safety.

Spoiler

 

[AdanVC]

Thanks for replies! Geez so literally starting in May we should expect NX blowout? That will be a proper time still to show it off if they are actually planning to release it this year. Waiting all the way to E3 would be such a bad move.

 

[nckillthegrimace]

People will be very upset. Sony and Microsoft did well by showing their consoles in their events. Hell, even Nintendo did right with the Wii. They need to show the console, and how pretty he is. Like a minute of shots in a lot of angles. It needs to glow in our eyes.

The PS4 console was not at the unveiling. But yes, Nintendo should show the actual console and handheld because, presumably, that interoperability is the actual interesting part. Also, games of all sizes and origins.

 

[10k]

Thanks for replies! Geez so literally starting in May we should expect NX blowout? That will be a proper time still to show it off if they are actually planning to release it this year. Waiting all the way to E3 would be such a bad move.

April 1st is the start of the new fiscal year. You might get a random press release inviting the media to join a Nintendo event that will unveil the NX. Completely controlled by Nintendo, away from E3 like Xbox's May 2013 conference (except for TV, TV, TV, Sports, Sports, Sports). They'll talk about specs, the new controller, cartidges, how Nintendo network works, the OS, some games in development, how the handheld and console work together, etc.

Or Nintendo says nothing until the fiscal year ending briefing in May and says "wait till E3".

People will be very upset. Sony and Microsoft did well by showing their consoles in their events. Hell, even Nintendo did right with the Wii. They need to show the console, and how pretty he is. Like a minute of shots in a lot of angles. It needs to glow in our eyes.

Xbox failed by having their own event because it was so close to E3 and they didn't want to show all their games. So you were left with a spec list and a bunch of media functionality garbage and kinect, which left a bad impression on people. Then when E3 came along it was even worse with the $499 price tag announcement and Sony announcing $399 right after. And of course the used game fiasco.

As a fan, I feel like you guys. I want to see this thing revealed asap and don't want them to wait until E3. But from a business perspective, if you're trying to grab an audience and draw the most possible attention, you wait till E3 for everything. Have a 90 minute presentation if that's what it takes. Open up with remaining Wii U and 3DS software, then ditch those forever.

Nintendo remaining completely silent gives them the edge because people will go into E3 not knowing what to expect, and are more susceptible to be shocked or awed.

A console reveal is unrivaled no matter what software people think would be announced. Nothing grabs the attention of a hardcore gamer more than making a splash at E3. Show the world your return to the E3 stage by blowing everyone's minds with new hardware, a console and a handheld, it's specs, price, launch games and launch window games, third party partnerships, the new gimmick. Announce the Nintendo network features, how it's free, how they share libraries, Smash 4 Complete Edition, Super Mario X, Zelda X, Metroid X, etc all within the launch period. Say how it's the next big thing in gaming and both sku's will launch this holiday.

If Nintendo does that, then all people are talking about for the next few months (and years in the future when looking back at E3 2016) is Nintendo and how that was Nintendo's E3 and it won't really matter what Sony or Microsoft do.

What could Sony do that would beat out an NX blowout, even if you're not a Nintendo fan? Show Horizon, FFVIIR, Shenmue 3, and TLG again? While people are hyped for those games we already know they exist and it won't have the same effect.

What about Microsoft? Gears 4, another Forza, Scalebound, maybe a new IP? Unless maybe Half-Life 3 is announced as PC and Xbox exclusive or PS exclusive I don't think anything the big companies do will have the same impact as an NX reveal.

Ubisoft doesn't have an AC to show off this year, EA is showing their cards before E3 so the big Star Wars game and Mass Effect will be shown two days before Nintendo. Another Call of Duty and Destiny 2 or some expansion won't do it.

My point is this is the year where all the big players don't have too many big weapons to show, at least nothing that would rival a console/handheld combo reveal, so it's Nintendo's time to shock and awe. Of course they could easily blow it and be the laughing stock of the industry and E3 again for an entire year (shades of E3 2011 and 2012).