What's up with all the negativity around The Last of Us now?

Yeah, I know. I'm just saying that it's not really a very interesting gameplay mechanic when you think about it. Managing your shivs appropriately basically means never using them for anything but doors. And yet the best way to play the game correctly and take on clickers is to sneak up on them. It just feels weird. And it's also odd that people can find that many bullets laying around, but can't find a single knife that doesn't break in one hit. It's just weird. It's pushing the resource management angle, and I get that, but I don't think pushing that actually adds much to the game in that case.

Yea.. resource managing is definitely forced. Still, I didn't really have a problem with the shivs. At least based on the way I was playing. I scavenged whenever possible, so most of the time I was filled with ingredients and never in a pinch. If I used a shiv for some reason other than a door, I could usually whip another one up right on the spot.

And I wouldn't say the "best" way to play the game is to shiv every clicker you see. It'd get boring real fast. Because I was kinda forced to play differently, it made each encounter feel a little fresh. Of course, it all depended on what items you had in your inventory though. Idk, I liked it. This is one of the few games I've played that made me use every asset given to me and I appreciate that.

As for the melee weapons.. that's a whole other story. I have no idea how it makes sense that a steel fucking pipe becomes useless after 5 hits. Same goes for the machete and axe weapons.
 
I think it's the gamers who allow themselves to fall into ridiculous amounts of hype that no game could live up to. Then when it doesn't meet their ultra lofty vision they blame the reviews.

Happens all the time.
 
People on neogaf don't play games, so are you really surprised?

Can't think of a game in recent memory even close to this one. Anyone saying its less than a 9.5 is fucking lying.

Definitely a classic by the sum of its parts.
 
Dunno what the tone of this thread is, but the opening last night was just epic...Already got teary eyed, so far, game is exceeding my expectations, and allowing my wife and I to enjoy gaming together again because to her, it's like watching a book unfold.

Seems great IMO...
 
People on neogaf don't play games, so are you really surprised?

Can't think of a game in recent memory even close to this one. Anyone saying its less than a 9.5 is fucking lying.

Definitely a classic by the sum of its parts.

That's not very helpful. I'm not saying the game is bad. It has a pretty good story that I'd prefer as a movie, and the graphics are very nice. That's not a 9.5 for me though, personally.

I think it's the gamers who allow themselves to fall into ridiculous amounts of hype that no game could live up to. Then when it doesn't meet their ultra lofty vision they blame the reviews.

Happens all the time.

That does happen a lot, but in this case that really isn't what happened to me. I kind of reluctantly bought it after reading the reviews and seeing all the user impressions on here. I was asking for a couple of days what people thought about it before I went into it. Someone told me it was the best TPS since Vanquish, a poster on this very board.

Anyway, if he truly thinks that, it's his right. But I don't agree.
 
I think it's the gamers who allow themselves to fall into ridiculous amounts of hype that no game could live up to. Then when it doesn't meet their ultra lofty vision they blame the reviews.

Happens all the time.

Is it that hard to believe that a linear, story driven game that does nothing special gameplay wise isn't universally loved? Or that a well told story isn't enough to make a game the best ever?
 
People on neogaf don't play games, so are you really surprised?

Can't think of a game in recent memory even close to this one. Anyone saying its less than a 9.5 is fucking lying.

Definitely a classic by the sum of its parts.

no, im not lying when I say I would give this game a 3/5 from the hard mode playthrough I did (probably not going to bother with a survivor playthrough)

i just have different priorities in games then you
 
People on neogaf don't play games, so are you really surprised?

Can't think of a game in recent memory even close to this one. Anyone saying its less than a 9.5 is fucking lying.

Definitely a classic by the sum of its parts.

Ridiculous post. Everyone has different opinions and preferences when it comes to game content.
 
I've just got to the Fall segment, and really the only negative aspect I can point out is the AI of your buddies. They often hide in clear sight of enemies when you're trying to be stealthy, and even though they're not noticed, it destroys the immersion a fair bit. And then of course there have been occasions where I've tried to sneak to a corner of some cover to grab an approaching enemy and the AI would JUST NOT BLOODY GET OUT OF THE WAY! It's also not as polished graphically as Uncharted 3, but that's understandable consider it's a much longer game.

Nit-picking though. This is quite possibly the best game I've played this gen, after Mirror's Edge. The slow and methodical approach to combat is so well implemented, and how it can all go to shit in an instant. Also worth noting that it's probably the most harrowing, depressing game I've ever played, or up there with the best of them anyway. Very nerve-wracking stuff.
 
I've gotta say that going on media blackout for this game was the best thing I did.

Literally thus far I would rate 9.5/10 because I just really didn't know what I was getting into, other then knowing that I loved uncharted 2, and this was apocalypse/zombie/ survivor horror.

Fucking great game, easily one of the best I've played in some time.

I wonder if some of the lower scored opinions were because of too many trailers, teases, demo's etc.
 
Is it that hard to believe that a linear, story driven game that does nothing special gameplay wise isn't universally loved? Or that a well told story isn't enough to make a game the best ever?

You just described a shitload of sacred cows that gamers love to bits. Different strokes for different folks. I don't enjoy every strong reviewed game that GAF fawns all over, but that doesn't make me think of the game or reviewers in a negative light.

A well crafted game deserves praise, and from what I've seen of Last of Us, it's a well crafted game. Keep the hype meter in check folks.
 
I've gotta say that going on media blackout for this game was the best thing I did.

Literally thus far I would rate 9.5/10 because I just really didn't know what I was getting into, other then knowing that I loved uncharted 2, and this was apocalypse/zombie/ survivor horror.

Fucking great game, easily one of the best I've played in some time.

I wonder if some of the lower scored opinions were because of too many trailers, teases, demo's etc.

I've completed the game twice and I really like it. But I would say it's one of those games that not everyone likes. It has certain themes and a very depressing atmosphere that just don't appeal to everyone. Much like the movie The Road.
 
I like the gunplay, but I don't like the controller lag. Not sure if it's my TV (yes, it's set to low latency gaming mode), the 30fps-with-dips framerate, Naughty Dog's engine, or what. Wouldn't be the first game, and it's an issue compounded by me doing 90% of my shooter gaming on PC with a mouse. But yeah, the lag is there and drives me a bit bonkers.

I have a rough time adjusting to controller lag though.

It's mainly the framerate. It almost always dips the moment you shoot a guy and if there is splatter (like an exploding head) it goes down even further. Do you have access to a gaming PC with Tomb Raider on it? Try that at 60FPS with an xbox controller and marvel on how much better it feels and how much more precise you can play.
 
People on neogaf don't play games, so are you really surprised?

Can't think of a game in recent memory even close to this one. Anyone saying its less than a 9.5 is fucking lying.

Definitely a classic by the sum of its parts.

Hahaha. Yeah, okay. We are comfortable throwing away $60 just to have a different opinion than anyone else. Maybe we aren't the ones lying to ourselves that this game doesn't have valid, legitimate criticisms against it.
 
Is there any replay value to this game? The last AAA game I bought was Bioshock Infinite and once I beat it there wasn't much else to do, it's just collecting dust until dlc comes out
 
You just described a shitload of sacred cows that gamers love to bits. Different strokes for different folks. I don't enjoy every strong reviewed game that GAF fawns all over, but that doesn't make me think of the game or reviewers in a negative light.

A well crafted game deserves praise, and from what I've seen of Last of Us, it's a well crafted game. Keep the hype meter in check folks.

I'm not finished yet, so I wanted to postpone my story criticism until I finish it tonight, but the way they set up the story felt awkwardly hollow as well.

Marlene has no character development really, but they end up following her and not holding her hostage even though she has the guns and she's wounded and they just blew someone's head off 3 seconds earlier and killed his 10 guards to get there. And why do they even need the guns? They don't even say, and they go on this huge journey and risk their lives for it when they seem to have access to quite a few guns, and get more relatively easily. And Tess really had no character development either. A stone cold killer who randomly decides that its her job to save the world and transport teenage girls around because of guns.

I'm sure it'll get better in that department, but besides the opening scenes, it's kind of dull honestly.

Is there any replay value to this game? The last AAA game I bought was Bioshock Infinite and once I beat it there wasn't much else to do, it's just collecting dust until dlc comes out

There is. You have more difficulty levels to try and more abilities to max, even if they are extremely boring abilities that barely do anything.

The beginning is probably going to be pretty tedious on new game + though because you don't get much control for a good hour or two, or three and would have to play through the slow parts without being able to skip cutscenes (or so I'm told).
 
You just described a shitload of sacred cows that gamers love to bits. Different strokes for different folks. I don't enjoy every strong reviewed game that GAF fawns all over, but that doesn't make me think of the game or reviewers in a negative light.

A well crafted game deserves praise, and from what I've seen of Last of Us, it's a well crafted game. Keep the hype meter in check folks.

I have no issue with games like the last of us, i liked Bioshock Infinite well enough for example.

But there are people that say stuff like "anything below a 9.5 is a lie" or "people critising this game are hipsters", which is obviously BS. There's legitimate critisism and different preferences/priorities and I don't see the issue in discussing such.
 
I enjoy this game quite a bit and think, like the first Uncharted, that it is a solid first step for the concept. Certainly flawed, but has elements that are also total home runs, namely what surrounds the actual game itself - the VA, atmosphere, etc.
 
I adore the gameplay. To me, it's the Manhunt sequel we never got. It's not that the game doesn't have issues, it's that they are insignificant to me when I'm having this much fun being the hunter and the hunted.
 
I enjoy this game quite a bit and think, like the first Uncharted, that it is a solid first step for the concept. Certainly flawed, but has elements that are also total home runs, namely what surrounds the actual game itself - the VA, atmosphere, etc.

That´s my problem right there. The "game" is only confident in all the parts that surround the actual gameplay. As a game it´s not very fun.

I´m only playing to push the story forward. I´ve given up on stealth since it seems to be broken and bumped the difficulty down to easy so I can get past those damn gameplay sections.
 
People on neogaf don't play games, so are you really surprised?

Can't think of a game in recent memory even close to this one. Anyone saying its less than a 9.5 is fucking lying.

Definitely a classic by the sum of its parts.

The technical issues and AI alone warrant a docking of at least half a point, if not more.

The game is outrageously good in many aspects but from a gameplay perspective I don't see anything amazing.
 
That´s my problem right there. The "game" is only confident in all the parts that surround the actual gameplay. As a game it´s not very fun.

I´m only playing to push the story forward. I´ve given up on stealth since it seems to be broken and bumped the difficulty down to easy so I can get past those damn gameplay sections.
Man, really? I felt that way at first but the encounters eventually become among the most thrilling I've experienced in recent memory. Moving through a whole neighborhood with every house wide open while trying to avoid being killed. It's so much more open ended and brutal than what we usually get.
 
The first three - four hours didn't deliver anything really compelling. It was a good start but I wasn't see the mega-hype.

After that, I have completely fallen in love with this game and could see myself giving it at least a 9.5 out of 10.
 
I've played 5 hours worth so far and I've felt myself comparing it to Resident Evil 4 a little bit.. I still prefer Resident Evil 4 but I won't judge the game until I complete it.
 
I don't know who would hate on this game, but whoever it is, they must be one of the infected, because they are out of their mind.
 
I am laughing now. I was on information blackout and if I wasn't, I would know about the autosave glitch
KuGsj.gif


I lost 11 hours thanks to that and finished the game, running everything again, next two days over the weekend.

I love it and am replaying it again on NG+ and the Survivor difficulty or what is it called after that.
 
I can understand people who don't like things. I cannot understand, tough, people who doesn't like ANYTHING. And, to be fair, reading the OT, people who didn't like TLOU are in that group for the most part.
 
I like the gunplay, but I don't like the controller lag. Not sure if it's my TV (yes, it's set to low latency gaming mode), the 30fps-with-dips framerate, Naughty Dog's engine, or what. Wouldn't be the first game, and it's an issue compounded by me doing 90% of my shooter gaming on PC with a mouse. But yeah, the lag is there and drives me a bit bonkers.

I have a rough time adjusting to controller lag though.

This was one of my complaints initially as well. Upgrading joels weapons helps but it's not a gameplay flaw, it's a lag flaw.

Man, really? I felt that way at first but the encounters eventually become among the most thrilling I've experienced in recent memory. Moving through a whole neighborhood with every house wide open while trying to avoid being killed. It's so much more open ended and brutal than what we usually get.

I agree. I love this game now. This game feels and plays how I wish a couple of other games did/would.

Resident Evil 5/Resident Evil 6
Manhunt 3
(if they ever made a third one.)

With this type of gritty setting and well done narrative I think a Manhunt game could be taken more seriously and seen as more than just a "B" level slasher movie type game. Give me that Rockstar Red Dead quality narrative and TLoU gameplay and I think another Manhunt game would be incredibly thrilling and, frankly, horrifying.
 
I think it's psychological - something is touted and praised at an excellence of difficult measure and it gets over hyped. People playing it set themselves up for disappointment because they were expecting something more and the flaws in the game are perceived at a stronger disdain than usual.

At least, this is how it was for me. Game was amazing, loved it, flaws and all.
 
I can understand people who don't like things. I cannot understand, tough, people who doesn't like ANYTHING and to be fair reading the OT, people who didn't like TLOU are in that group for the most part.

The super meat boy esque hyper checkpointing doesn't really fit in with what the game is trying to do lol. Whats the point of making a stealth action game with limited resources if nothing matters, they never give the mechanics any chance to actually be scrutinized in any real way.
 
I think it's psychological - something is touted and praised at an excellence of difficult measure and it gets over hyped. People playing it set themselves up for disappointment because they were expecting something more and the flaws in the game are perceived at a stronger disdain than usual.

At least, this is how it was for me. Game was amazing, loved it, flaws and all.

For me it was more the expectation that after all the UC3 backlash ND would put a little more effort in the gameplay department.

In the end my expectations weren´t very high. I expected a ND game and that´s exactly what I got.

UC2 remains NDs finest work to date.
 
To add on what I was saying, the parts that I do love is when it actually feels more like a survival horror game - when you're completely in the dark with the infected and cannot see a thing. I'm really glad that I have Listen Mode turned off, because moments like that really turned up the tension. This is offset by moments where I'm forced to eliminate enemies, or have to deal with any human AI.

Like I said before, I think there's a fantastic game buried deep under some flaws that, with some polish, can really be excellent in the next iteration (if there is one, I haven't beaten it yet). Unlike what that one guy suggested who said that critics of the game were lying, I want people to love this game. I don't understand why people would have a motive or agenda to lie about their perception of a title, nor do I like the idea of people wasting their money on an experience that they are not enjoying. Myself, personally - I'm having a good time, I just don't quite think it's a masterpiece.
 
It's characters, atmosphere and graphics are enough for me to call it a great game. But again, similar to how I felt with Uncharted 2, I found that towards the end I was bored by the majority of combat situations and just wanted to wander around these incredible environments with Joel and Ellie. I found it very much like Bioshock Infinite in that sense.
 
For me it was more the expectation that after all the UC3 backlash ND would put a little more effort in the gameplay department.

In the end my expectations weren´t very high. I expected a ND game and that´s exactly what I got.

UC2 remains NDs finest work to date.

I know right! U2 had all of the hype in the world and it somehow still delivered above expectations. Once in a generation kind of game, I think.
 
4 hours into SP and I love it. My only complaint is load times, they're dog slow.

I've put about the same time into MP and when played with a friend its excellent. I love the slow pace and the tactics. The upgrade system seems to be pretty sophisticated too so it'll keep me busy for a long time!
 
Is it that hard to believe that a linear, story driven game that does nothing special gameplay wise isn't universally loved? Or that a well told story isn't enough to make a game the best ever?

I would in no way describe The Last of Us as linear. The freedom of approach in 90% of the encounters is comparable to old school Hitman games. You're in a sandbox area and can find your own way through with anything that ranges from zero kills and stealth to violent gun battles.

Yeah, I know. I'm just saying that it's not really a very interesting gameplay mechanic when you think about it. Managing your shivs appropriately basically means never using them for anything but doors. And yet the best way to play the game correctly and take on clickers is to sneak up on them. It just feels weird. And it's also odd that people can find that many bullets laying around, but can't find a single knife that doesn't break in one hit. It's just weird. It's pushing the resource management angle, and I get that, but I don't think pushing that actually adds much to the game in that case. You either use ineffective means to take clickers down, or you just walk past them and have even less to do in the game.
The way to play the game correctly is to only take on clickers when you have to, which translates to maybe a half dozen of them throughout the entire game.

Also, the game puts a lifespan on bats, axes, and machetes (only 3 hits for a machete) so if you did find a knife it would likely have the same limited uses as a shiv. That's the gameplay mechanic they're going for (consumable gear). Complaining about it makes about as much sense as complaining about the star power being limited in Mario when fire flowers aren't. Like all games you have to create a few blind spots for game play.

And how is stealthily sneaking past something "having less to do"? If that's the case I guess the early Splinter Cell, Thief, MGS games etc. didn't involve you actually playing a game then?

It sounds to me like you're unwilling to suspend disbelief for anything game play related at all, and are nitpicking the shit out of a video game you want to play your way when that directly conflicts with the game design that was chosen for it (for a reason).

Tomb Raider has none of the suspense and tension in combat because you quickly get to the point where you're a super powered killing machine. The Last of Us powers you up but never to the point where any encounter becomes truly trivial. The entire point to the game's design is that every action has a cost associated. That might be in actual resources if you use shivs to kill enemies. It might be in health and ammo if you go guns blazing. It might be an opportunity cost if you sneak through and potentially miss some gear. Its up to you to weigh the cost versus the benefit and make what you think is the best choice in each area.
 
It sounds to me like you're unwilling to suspend disbelief for anything game play related at all, and are nitpicking the shit out of a video game you want to play your way when that directly conflicts with the game design that was chosen for it (for a reason).
When a game is peddling unusually high levels of realism as one of it's main selling points, I think it's fair to point out where it missed the mark. I'm totally fine with gameplay mechanics and resource management when it's compelling. I get that underneath it all, all games are systems designed with rules and checks and balances. I just don't think they designed them well here at all. I can suspend disbelief when it fits into a compelling set of rules in a gameplay system. But I don't see why I should just ignore that the AI runs around in the open and is invisible to enemies when it adds nothing to the game but disbelief and immersion breaking.

Take on 6 clickers the entire game? That was my point. There isn't much compelling resource management here. You get nothing for killing clickers, and you lose shivs. In addition, it's extremely easy to bypass them because they can't see anything. So it's not really a huge debate, you just skip them all unless you absolutely have to because it's much more rational to spend shivs on unlocking doors. And taking them on in other ways is not that satisfying either, because they run at you and one hit kill you. And the game encourages you to sit still to shoot more accurately, but then puts enemies in there that you can't sit still and shoot. Think of the behavior of the regenerators in RE4 and how that works with stop and shoot gameplay mechanics while being scary, and compare that to the design of the clickers in the TLoU, and how that impacts the gunplay. Even the chainsaw guys in RE4 have to stop to attack before they one hit kill you, and they are bigger and slightly slower so you have time to aim and shoot while the intensity is still maintained because it's quality monster design and quality monster AI.

I can suspend disbelief for some things, but this just seems like boring gameplay design. It's not compelling stealth for me to just walk as slow as possible with no regard for sightlines. Splinter Cell's stealth is much more involved. Even with no xp reward, I'd rather kill clickers at that point just so I could be free to at least explore the areas in anything but slow motion to avoid making any noises. It even makes the scavenging less enjoyable if they're in the area at all because you have to go so slow, but there's really no risk of being caught.

That's just the clickers. I could keep going, but I have to head out. Anyway, thanks for not accusing me of lying at least. I'm fine debating the gameplay design decisions and I know I'll be in the minority, but I just find it interesting that people are interpreting it so differently.
 
I understand where some of the "AI issues" come from, I'm under the impression that the enemies only react to the player-controled character. The area when you are running from the military, Tess and Ellie were clearly in their line-of-sight and nothing. The point where I gave up on stealth was at the station with the safe in the bookstore... Tess was running around like an idiot... bumping into the clickers and they didn't even acknowledge her? She was using her flashlight the whole time. We leave that area and I follow Tess into an empty building and as soon as I enter, the enemies go WILD! Since then I gave up on Stealth.
 
I don't get it either. It's just a zombie game.

Yup you don't get it. Maybe for you it's just a zombie game, but for someone else it might be an unforgetable experience like no other. Another might hate every mechanic of the game to the point he or she just quits. In the end we all have our preferences. This is why I think alot of comments in this thread are baffling. It's allmost funny to see posters quote somebody and comment on it while proceeding to do the same thing they are actually criticizing.

It's ok to not like this game, but it's also ok to love the fuck out of the game. How hard is that to get?
 
The super meat boy esque hyper checkpointing doesn't really fit in with what the game is trying to do lol. Whats the point of making a stealth action game with limited resources if nothing matters, they never give the mechanics any chance to actually be scrutinized in any real way.

Oh, the checkpoints suck? That's too bad. I won't be rushing to play this.
 
I don't get it either. It's just a zombie game.

It's much... much more than that. To simply call it a "zombie game" is selling it way short. The story, atmosphere, and overall quality of this game is unlike anything I have ever experienced in any entertainment medium. It's very much not just a "zombie game", but a gripping, emotional journey as well.

Oh, the checkpoints suck? That's too bad. I won't be rushing to play this.

They didn't suck for me. The game is constantly autosaving, and they often create checkpoints at major ( and sometimes even minor) points in a fight. The Uncharted series (which I also love) has pretty rough checkpoints, but this game, at least for me, doesn't.
 
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