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[Angelus Errare]

The only people who notice this crap are the racists and the sexists. If you want a game with all characters of different races, genders, religions etc... GO MAKE IT! Nobody that's not a racist complains about White Male Leads in films. Sorry if this comes off as preachy. When did video games and society become bitch about everything, but do nothing to change it except shed light on the negative. Apologies

 

[jimi_dini]

Metal Gear Solid 3 did this and I don't remember complaints. All the random guards were men, though. There's also Uncharted 3, but the same all-male enemy problem is in.

In Metal Gear Solid 3 that female

Spoiler

is the boss, who is actually a hero

. And in Uncharted 3 you don't fight the woman and shoot her dead. You fight her helping hand (a male of course). Naughty Dog could have given her a gun and made her an actual boss character, but nope. They could have given her a female helping hand as well, but nope. I guess they didn't do this, because they feared a shitstorm. In the other 2 games you kill the main villain by yourself through gameplay.

Just imagine a game with lots of enemies (a la CoD) and all of those enemies are females. Is there one?

From the top of my head there were a few female enemies in MGS4, although except for the bosses you couldn't tell the difference (except for those voice snippets and that you couldn't junk-punch them). And the bosses weren't obviously female until after you beat them. And I guess Kojima only did this so that he could mo-cap those models.

Then there were a few females sprinkled in Resident Evil 4 (+ 5). But those were zombies, not regular humans like in all sorts of other shooters.

They should just remove people from all games and just make them animals.

won't help. I think there was a thread on GAF, where people actually listed animal characters as "males". I found it really weird. When my player character is an animal like in for example Okami, I don't ask myself "wait, what gender is this wolf? Is it a male or a female?". It seems there are people, who do that. For me it's simply a wolf.

 

[Storm Kyleis]

They should just remove people from all games and just make them animals.

Greenpeace would complain.

 

[User 73706]

your experience is anecdotal. as is mine, because of the handful of women i know who play games, none of them shy away from hyper-violence. they, like anyone, find it appropriate and gratuitous, depending on the context.

if anything, most women seem to "dislike" violent games because of the high cross-over between violent games and mechanically shallow or intellectually boring games. my wife hates watching Dark Souls for instance, because there's nothing engaging in it for her, but finds titles like Broforce, Earth Defense Force, and even Mortal Kombat, entertaining to watch and/or play.

Adding on to this, I think it's not really an issue of women not wanting to play those games so much as it is the converse: people with overblown senses of masculinity (chemically-rooted or not) generally gravitate towards shallow, albeit "masculine" games out of subconscious insecurity to branch out and try more captivating stuff. See: all of the hormonal 13-year-old dudes freshly experiencing puberty gravitating towards Call of Duty, Halo 4, etc.

On the flip side, just based on some of the communities (on GAF and off) I've come to know, non-hetereonormatives of all shapes, genders, sizes, orientations, etc. have surprisingly varied tastes that stray away not from mainline blockbuster titles, but from those cinematic experiences governing their tastes. The Last of Us, the Souls series, etc. might be buys for experience's sake, but they usually gravitate towards franchises with stronger senses of community, larger skill curves and propensity for innovation and development such as the classic Halo titles, Pokemon, Smash Bros, etc. Nintendo, while not necessarily an automatic favorite, is also a pretty common indifferent constant or a receptor to positive acclaim most of the time. That is, in contrast to the usual "Wii U has no games, RIP in peace" mindset the vocal minorities on gaming-side constantly poison discussion with. As an aside, while you had all sorts playing them in addition, I remember Halo 2 and 3 having a surprisingly common amount of publicly female players in online Matchmaking. At least, compared to the usual games.

 

[sephiroth7x]

Does it really matter?

A lead character can be anything as long as it fits the game. War games for example are going to be 99% of the time be ran by men. The reason being that percentage wise there aren't as many women in the army... this isn't descrimination... this is fact. The option to have females and represent females is fantastic, but that doesnt mean they should even the males... as statistically this would be inaccurate...

For single player experiences and story based games, I agree there aren't many coloured characters (I dont even know the politically correct phrase for a coloured character now. Coloured? African-American? African-English? They are just people to me, why catagorise?) in games but I don't think this is because someone somewhere at the very genesis of the game development is a racist, simply that they design the character and thats that! Why should anyone be forced to alter their own creativity due to positive discrimination?

 

[User 73706]

Does it really matter?

A lead character can be anything as long as it fits the game. War games for example are going to be 99% of the time be ran by men. The reason being that percentage wise there aren't as many women in the army... this isn't descrimination... this is fact. The option to have females and represent females is fantastic, but that doesnt mean they should even the males... as statistically this would be inaccurate...

For single player experiences and story based games, I agree there aren't many coloured characters (I dont even know the politically correct phrase for a coloured character now. Coloured? African-American? African-English? They are just people to me, why catagorise?) in games but I don't think this is because someone somewhere at the very genesis of the game development is a racist, simply that they design the character and thats that! Why should anyone be forced to alter their own creativity due to positive discrimination?

Positive discrimination is defining a non-hetereonormative as uncommon among the main ensemble of characters or concepts in a story and empowering them. Defining white males dominating the gaming landscape in our white male-dominated world as "positive discrimination" is a little... supremacist-sounding.

 

[Kinyou]

won't help. I think there was a thread on GAF, where people actually listed animal characters as "males". I found it really weird. When my player character is an animal like in for example Okami, I don't ask myself "wait, what gender is this wolf? Is it a male or a female?". It seems there are people, who do that. For me it's simply a wolf.

The wolf from Okami is actually a female. Though it would be pretty silly to list her as one of gaming's strong female characters, I agree with that. It's simply a wolf.

 

[Lucidforest]

Video games are a form of escapism, and because of this most people would generally choose for their avatar to reflect themselves as much as possible. The same will be the case when developing games - what would developers and writers know best? And from what perspective are they most likely to be successful portraying? Themselves and from their own perspective.

Nowadays, the types of games you’re likely thinking of are big-budget titles developed in America, the UK or Europe, and likely by guys who happen to be white. It’s not discrimination, it’s just statistics.

 

[thewhitehawk]

She's right. Additionally it's a bit sad how many of the last/current-gen character share a lot of physical traits.

Short-haired white-skinned brooding men with "cool" clothes is the default, or only options for most games.

Say what you will about furries but at least in the 16 and 32bit days we had a lot more diversity, if not of genders then at least of species/character design. It seems that the less restrictive our technology becomes for developers, the less diverse our games become graphically.

 

[RubberJohnny]

http://midnightresistance.co.uk/articles/shitty-toys

But no, when you read some perfectly valid criticism of a game you've helped to make, and then see some random kid in the comments giving a flimsy and inaccurate defence on your behalf, when YOU know the REAL reason why something came out a certain way is because of some seemingly-unrelated decision an engineer made six months ago which slowly escalated into a serious technical limitation which you simply don't have the necessary resources to correct, but because your contract forbids you from discussing such things publicly you have to just sit and watch this ignorant child make you look like a plum... well, you have to learn to take some deep cleansing breaths and move on.

If you ever feel the urge to publicly second-guess the development process that led to something terrible being included in the game, please consider not doing that instead.

Hey, gamers? Don't worry. Developers are not going to stop making shitty games just because critics call them out on it. Some of them will, and I look forward to that, but there will always be people out there making games where you play as a forgettable white guy shooting people in the face and rescusing babes in bikinis. Nobody is going to take that Dionysian joy away from you, except yourself, when you grow up.

The rise of mature games that don't feature shitty characters and situations does not diminish your supply of immature shit in any way. It caters to a growing market of consumers who have just as much of a right to play a fucking videogame as you do, and doesn't harm you at all.

 

[Lime]

From a broader perspective regarding the whole issue of representation, I think the insightful Todd Harper made the assessment that we need to approach and understand character representation in video games as reinforcement of specific and existing power structures/marginalization. I think this is a very fruitful approach for a discourse on representation.

We shouldn't view it as "X amount of women are required, Y amount of homosexuals are required, Z amount of non-Whites are required", but instead as to how specific games and the overall general picture contribute to asymmetrical power relationships.

 

[Lime]

You are right to a certain extent with AAA publishers, some directors have more power than others though. But if you look at all the new indie developers, somehow I haven't seen a lot more diversity in protagonists, they mostly seem to be white as well. Diversity in games yes, protagonists, not so much as far as I can tell.

That's because indie developers aren't much better than AAA developers in terms of perpetuating the gamer stereotype. The indie scene suffers from the same discriminatory and marginalizing features that the AAA industry suffers from. As Liz Ryerson states:

let's talk about the current culture around "indie games", as we call them. indie games may have been a big boom for a small group of indepdently-minded tech dudes, but that level of exposure and/or cultural penetration hasn't been nearly so generous to most everyone else. most of it has played out as a gold rush for young privileged people (tying into the Silicon Valley startup gold rush) where the people who were lucky enough to get through the door at the right time are already shutting it on everyone else trying to break through.

the fact is that the current culture around "indie" games is sexist, classist and racist as hell (not to mention US-centric). those who have the most resources get to define the conversation for everyone else. they also get to run the events and choose what gets talked about at those events. major events happen in places like the SF bay area, or NYC, or LA, etc etc - these are where the real connections are made and relationships are built. if you're not around at events like GDC networking and meeting new people (because, let's say, you can't afford them), then you probably won't be taken very seriously or have access to many resources.

even if you can afford to make those conferences, there's an intense pressure to define who you are and what you do through how you present yourself on the terms of what's already out there. indie game dev circles function as social scenes for those lucky enough to participate. often they end up just being a place for comraderie for particular kinds of tech dudes. there's a term a friend of mine uses which i'm very fond of: "photogenic indies". all the endless indie game festival PR photos of enraptured, mostly white, mostly male upper-middle class 20-somethings makes it clear who is part of this culture and who isn't. as such, the participants are there to make themselves and their friends look good. they lack any kind of ability to self-critical because no one wants to lose friends. they want to treat each other as the new boy geniuses, and make lots of money doing it. and therefore the people who have the resources help their friends above all else. as a social scene, your place in the culture is much more about status and who you're friends with than about the content of the ideas.

if you are at all aiming to make a space something outside the norm, you're expected to explain what you're about and have it be on those terms. extra bonus points if you can aim for a commercial release, and constantly network so that you can have a hope of getting your game noticed by festival jurors and nominated, so that you can then sell it from there. non-commercial games have little place in this culture, after all, because they're not viewed as being as serious contributions to the artform of videogames; because selling your game is supposedly the way to communicate that it has more value and therefore get higher levels of cultural penetration. there's an immense emphasis put on "polish", which is really more about distinguishing your game from others and making it look expensive than having it match your ideas in any real way.

but let's say you manage to get your game on Steam and have lots of PR and release it and it makes a ton of money. even then people will still stop talking about your game in a week or so.

Yes it's oversimplified, but so is the view that women and men can be equal on equal terms, and it's only society that causes the downsides, life just doesn't work that way.

If you admit to making oversimplications of complex issues, stop making them. You're polluting the discussion and obscuring the nuances.

There are certain fundamental differences between men and women and I don't think we can change our basic instincts. Like women give birth and protect their kids even from the husband if necessary, generally it's the husbands job to protect her and his kids. Today it's not as dangerous/important anymore, but you still don't want to let your wife walk down a dark alley on her own in the middle of the night.

Biological determinism.

It’s not discrimination, it’s just statistics.

Considering the people who play games are not as homogenic as the demographics of the video games industry and are much more diverse, one could reasonably argue that the products are (unintentionally or not) discriminating by virtue of their reinforcement of asymmetrical power relationships in society. I.e. media representation matters due to several reasons as put forth in countless articles within both cultural studies and media studies.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

Not many games fit that description this year. Watch Dogs. What else?

 

[Bigmac1910]

i still don't get how someone can view diversity as a bad thing. it's incredible.

I don't think people in general are against diversity, but some people here wants diversity just because. They don't seem to care whether a protagonist suits the game or story as long as their own race, color or gender is represented. To me this sound wrong, and all some people are saying is that if you are someone who truly feels so strongly about this particular topic, do something about it.

Just look at the Japanese gaming industry, they've been trying to create western style games for a long time now and failed miserably. The successes they've had was when they were just doing their own thing. This just proves to me that it's not nearly as easy to create something that is not close to you or feel comfortable with, so until there is a shift in demographics within the gaming industry, not much is going to change I'm afraid.

I don't get one thing though, ever since the Apple App store launched around six years ago, everybody has had the chance to create a game with a protagonist of their choice as an indie developer, but I haven't seen much change, if any. Why is that?

 

[jon bones]

http://midnightresistance.co.uk/articles/shitty-toys

damn, spot fuckin on. this is exactly what i see when people cry about "censorship" and "PC."

 

[evilromero]

They should just remove people from all games and just make them animals.

FYI, humans are animals.

 

[Polioliolio]

You'd have to be pretty ballsy to be a white male game designer and have the gull to write a black woman protagonist for an audience of a hundred thousand and feel confident in what you've done.

Swapping skins is easy, but actually writing a character that's pretty far from your own perspective is quite a challenge.


So maybe people other than white males should aspire to develop games, eh?

 

[qizah]

FYI, humans are animals.

FYI, you knew what I meant.

PS. I was being sarcastic.

 

[The Technomancer]

I don't think people in general are against diversity, but some people here wants diversity just because. They don't seem to care whether a protagonist suits the game or story as long as their own race, color or gender is represented. To me this sound wrong, and all some people are saying is that if you are someone who truly feels so strongly about this particular topic, do something about it.

What? Who's saying "write in a female or minority protagonist regardless of if it fits the story or not?". I'm pretty sure all of us are saying "it would be nice to have more female and minority protagonists with good (or passable) stories written around them"

 

[Duyu Ivanlift]

Oh god! not anita sarkeesian! most useless human 2014.
she makes things up just to get attention. she´s such a sexist! unable to see everyone as equal.
all she is interested in is your gender and colour of your skin, so she can label you as fast as possible.

 

[Captain Europe]

The only people who notice this crap are the racists and the sexists. If you want a game with all characters of different races, genders, religions etc... GO MAKE IT! Nobody that's not a racist complains about White Male Leads in films. Sorry if this comes off as preachy. When did video games and society become bitch about everything, but do nothing to change it except shed light on the negative. Apologies

It became a bitch when we're in 2014 and main leads are still straight white males 98% of the time. The only people who notice this are the ones that actually give a shit about diversity and realistic representation.

 

[Lime]

You'd have to be pretty ballsy to be a white male game designer and have the gull to write a black woman protagonist for an audience of a hundred thousand and feel confident in what you've done.

Swapping skins is easy, but actually writing a character that's pretty far from your own perspective is quite a challenge.


So maybe people other than white males should aspire to develop games, eh?

If one is so worried about writing and designing minority characters different from oneself, how about, I don't know, just actually ask or consult them or people well-versed in the field whether or not they find your design and characterization acceptable? Just like how mechanics and gameplay are playtested, so can simply talking to the people you choose to represent provide some guidelines in cases where the straight white dude has no clue on how to avoid damaging characterization.

Oh god! not anita sarkeesian! most useless human 2014.

I don't know about useless, she is pretty much the perfect litmus test to determine whether or not someone is an (unaware?) privileged person with ingrained sexist attitudes.

 

[jon bones]

.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

Not many games fit that description this year. Watch Dogs. What else?

Well let's look at the big games released this year for Sony / MS and the main protag.

Tomb Raider - White Female
Infamous - Native American
TitanFall - (Haven't played it, but is there a main protag in this? From trailers seems the cast was diverse.)
Watch_Dogs - White Male
Wolfenstein - White Male

Just a couple games off the top of my head.

My thoughts on the matter are the following. I like good protagonists in my games, I do not care about their race as long as the character is likable. Now, I liked Aiden Pearce in Watch_Dogs and I realize that a lot of you didn't. Different strokes. However, Lee from the Walking Dead is one of my all time favorite characters because of how likable he was and how I could relate to him and his story. If the character is done right, his/her race should not matter.

 

[stupei]

You'd have to be pretty ballsy to be a white male game designer and have the gull to write a black woman protagonist for an audience of a hundred thousand and feel confident in what you've done.

Swapping skins is easy, but actually writing a character that's pretty far from your own perspective is quite a challenge.


So maybe people other than white males should aspire to develop games, eh?

Thank god there are so many people today who experienced life as an assassin in Italy, right?

 

[big_erk]

Thank god there are so many people today who experienced life as an assassin in Italy, right?

Come on, I can't be the only can I?

 

[User 73706]

FYI, humans are animals.

tag quote

What? Who's saying "write in a female or minority protagonist regardless of if it fits the story or not?". I'm pretty sure all of us are saying "it would be nice to have more female and minority protagonists with good (or passable) stories written around them"

On top of that, there are game stories out there where the core narrative doesn't hinge on the protag's identity. In Halo Reach, your character is customizable from armor to paintjob to even gender, and it's reflected during the realtime cutscenes of the Campaign, going as far as changing pronouns and your player's voice. This isn't an RPG where your character's decisions modify every facet of the plot. It's just a Halo campaign. As a female you can still flip tanks and kill aliens a head taller than you by punching them out, and as a male you can still empathize with a female squadmate as she laments over the alien orbital bombardment immolating an entire cityscape.

It'd be cool if more stories with blank-slate dudebro protagonists provided the option. Pokemon usually handles it pretty well, too.

 

[sephiroth7x]

Defining white males dominating the gaming landscape in our white male-dominated world as "positive discrimination" is a little... supremacist-sounding.

Oooo calm down with the supremacist stuff. Simply saying that if a character is white then why does it matter?

As a writer who has had work published I've fought this argument before. One of my books was entirely set in the UK, with English characters. Now, in my head I had the vision of what every character should look like. All of them were white... some were ginger/blonde/tall/thin/fat etc but I was under pressure to incorporate a black character into the book... maybe turning one of my protagonists friends into a black character.

I asked the question why? And they argued it covered all bases. An argument really does exist that by segregating people into black/white/yellow/whatever we are being more racist than if we just called ourselves human beings and screw the colour. I know this will never happen. But it should in my eyes.

Race/Sex shouldn't matter in any medium or part of society. For example, if ten people applied for two jobs. The best two out of the ten who applied were both white men. But out of the ten, should I find a black man or woman (Even if they were the worst of the ten) in order to make sure I wasn't being racist/sexist? I dont think thats fair on anyone. (Going way off topic but hey ho).

In games as long as it isn't blatant racism (I don't see blatant racism in any game) then I don't see a big issue?

 

[User 73706]

Oooo calm down with the supremacist stuff. Simply saying that if a character is white then why does it matter?

As a writer who has had work published I've fought this argument before. One of my books was entirely set in the UK, with English characters. Now, in my head I had the vision of what every character should look like. All of them were white... some were ginger/blonde/tall/thin/fat etc but I was under pressure to incorporate a black character into the book... maybe turning one of my protagonists friends into a black character.

I asked the question why? And they argued it covered all bases. An argument really does exist that by segregating people into black/white/yellow/whatever we are being more racist than if we just called ourselves human beings and screw the colour. I know this will never happen. But it should in my eyes.

Race/Sex shouldn't matter in any medium or part of society. For example, if ten people applied for two jobs. The best two out of the ten who applied were both white men. But out of the ten, should I find a black man or woman (Even if they were the worst of the ten) in order to make sure I wasn't being racist/sexist? I dont think thats fair on anyone. (Going way off topic but hey ho).

In games as long as it isn't blatant racism (I don't see blatant racism in any game) then Idon't see a big issue?

wat

 

[EscoBlades]

In games as long as it isn't blatant racism (I don't see blatant racism in any game) then I don't see a big issue?

Jut checking this is what you actually meant to write. Cos if so...

 

[Polioliolio]

If one is so worried about writing and designing minority characters different from oneself, how about, I don't know, just actually ask or consult them or people well-versed in the field whether or not they find your design and characterization acceptable? Just like how mechanics and gameplay are playtested, so can simply talking to the people you choose to represent provide some guidelines in cases where the straight white dude has no clue on how to avoid damaging characterization.



I don't know about useless, she is pretty much the perfect litmus test to determine whether or not someone is an (unaware?) privileged person with ingrained sexist attitudes.

Thank god there are so many people today who experienced life as an assassin in Italy, right?

Unless obliged to, most creators probably would just go with what comes to them, and what probably comes to them for their game character is an extension of themselves into other roles.

Those assassins in Italy are just white dudes in the role of assassins in Italy. As if the creators though 'Okay, now I have to imagine myself as an assassin in Italy'.


I agree about doing consulting where necessary, particularly on a large scale, AAA budget, but it's so much easier, and most importantly, more natural, for these white game creators to make white characters, and I think it's hard to fault them for doing what comes naturally in that way. I'm not saying they shouldn't challenge themselves, but you can't force the hand of a creator, just because..


Creating isn't easy, and I understand how it could be difficult, even uncomfortable, to try to design and write for characters outside of your gender and race.. especially with all the baggage that comes with it.


I'm totally for more diversity in games, and am interested to play as a more diverse cast of characters, but as a creator, it's a much more difficult concept to undertake than you'd think.

 

[Lime]

Not many games fit that description this year. Watch Dogs. What else?

Looking at Wikipedia's release from January until June this year, here are some immediate games with white male protagonist

1. Don't Starve
2. Metal Gear Rising Revengeance (PC)
3. Banner Saga
4. Outlast
5. Wolf Among Us
6. Double Dragon Neon
7. Rambo The Video Game
8. Castlevania 2
9. Thief
10. Professor Layton and the Azran Legacy
11. South Park Stick of Truth
12. Metal Gear Solid Ground Zeroes
13. Yaiba Ninja Gaiden Z
14. Batman Arkham Origins Blackgate
15. Demon Gaze
16. Warface
17. Wolfenstein: New Order
18. Killer Is Dead (PC)
19. Watch Dogs
20. Murdered Soul Suspect
21. Sniper Elite 3

 

[Polioliolio]

Looking at Wikipedia's release from January until June this year, here are some immediate games with white male protagonist

1. Don't Starve
2. Metal Gear Rising Revengeance (PC)
3. Banner Saga
4. Outlast
5. Wolf Among Us
6. Double Dragon Neon
7. Rambo The Video Game
8. Castlevania 2
9. Thief
10. Professor Layton and the Azran Legacy
11. South Park Stick of Truth
12. Metal Gear Solid Ground Zeroes
13. Yaiba Ninja Gaiden Z
14. Batman Arkham Origins Blackgate
15. Demon Gaze
16. Warface
17. Wolfenstein: New Order
18. Killer Is Dead (PC)
19. Watch Dogs
20. Murdered Soul Suspect
21. Sniper Elite 3

I don't think it's fair to stick some of those games on the list.

South Park for example.. don't you design your own main character? You could make them whatever you choose.

Also, Don't Starve may have Wilson as the face of the game, but you immediately unlock a female protagonist, and can unlock more female characters yet.

Characters like Raiden in Metal Gear Rising are hardly just white dudes. The man is basically a barbie doll terminator, apparently grew up as a child soldier in Zimbabwe or something.


As for Double Dragon, isn't Player 2 has red colors diverse enough for you? I kid, I kid.

 

[Lime]

Creating isn't easy, and I understand how it could be difficult, even uncomfortable, to try to design and write for characters outside of your gender and race.. especially with all the baggage that comes with it.

I'm totally for more diversity in games, and am interested to play as a more diverse cast of characters, but as a creator, it's a much more difficult concept to undertake than you'd think.

I know it's tough to be a White dude and try your hand with a worldview and experience different from yourself, but difficulty of something should not be an excuse. As a creative designer, artist or writer, would it not be in your best interest to challenge yourself and expand upon your skillset? Could you not meet these challenges by learning more about other aspects about the world and the people in it, even if you're a straight white guy?

Perhaps you could even give the people you choose to represent a voice by granting marginalized identities a stake in the creative decisions of a game featuring a non-White character by virtue of your power position as a designer (contact someone in the know/experienced and let them have something to say in a media landscape in which they usually aren't granted that presence, power and voice)?

And would it not be lazy to constantly rely on the easy, commonplace, invisible straight white guy that we see everywhere? I.e. one of the things being pointed out in this thread is that most game developers and publishers in the mainstream space are lazy and uncreative when it comes to their main characters.

Moreover, it is not like the skin color or sexuality or gender have any form of significance of the usual video game story. It's usually just a person blowing shit up or killing other dudes with no comment or inclusion of social commentary or explicit political symbols. So, it should be pretty easy to just swap the skin color/sexuality/gender of most video game protagonists without any damage or consequences to the story and game.

EDIT: What ab.aeterno and silvermember said below.

 

[ab.aeterno]

The only people who notice this crap are the racists and the sexists. If you want a game with all characters of different races, genders, religions etc... GO MAKE IT! Nobody that's not a racist complains about White Male Leads in films. Sorry if this comes off as preachy. When did video games and society become bitch about everything, but do nothing to change it except shed light on the negative. Apologies

You know, this may be the most impressive doubling-down on ignorance I've ever actually seen. People who bring up issues of diversity are racists and sexists, truly inspired material.

As long as it suits the story I wouldn't mind, but it would be a bit boring to play through a similar story every time for the next 30 years lol. Unless she gets a pretty big personality change every time, like only occasionally being a lesbian etc. lol.

I don't think people in general are against diversity, but some people here wants diversity just because. They don't seem to care whether a protagonist suits the game or story as long as their own race, color or gender is represented. To me this sound wrong, and all some people are saying is that if you are someone who truly feels so strongly about this particular topic, do something about it.

How would having a minority character change their suitability for a story? How many games use a character's whiteness in any way, out in what ways does it suit a story? What about their gender?

Why is it this bullshit about suitability or having to fit the story only apply or come up when it's about minorities? Why do minority characters always have to justify their existence, to the story, game, everything but that isn't true for straight white males?

From my perspective it is PC to force diversity just for the heck of it. A game directors vision is what it is, some people are just trying to force the issue that a game needs to have this race and that gender to be acceptable. So obviously that's PC unless it's already part of the original vision.

I think it's interesting that every time this topic comes up, this word gets used. This idea gets propagated that taking about these issues or criticizing games for having all-white casts necessarily means people are forcing design changes, as though people have stormed their office holding assault rifles and demanding they add minorities or else. It's hilariously bizarre. And yet, how rarely this idea comes up when criticizing game design decisions people don't like, such as DLC or microtransactions. Or more hilariously, how often the same people wringing their hands crying out "Won't someone please think of the artistic integrity?" have no problem throwing said integrity under the bus when they want to criticize a game's inclusion of unlocks or DLC.

 

[silvermember]

You'd have to be pretty ballsy to be a white male game designer and have the gull to write a black woman protagonist for an audience of a hundred thousand and feel confident in what you've done.

Swapping skins is easy, but actually writing a character that's pretty far from your own perspective is quite a challenge.


So maybe people other than white males should aspire to develop games, eh?

The reason you can say something like that is because you automatically assume the story has to be about her race and gender and not simply being a character. You assume the story should be revolved around the issues being a black woman for example, goes through and not simply a regular person going through the same issues other white protagonist are going through. Nobody is saying make a period piece game during the slavery times because you damn sure better research it, which is what your mind just like a lot of people on this thread seem to be stuck on.

Let's look at other protagonist in most, their gender and race rarely ever is an issue. Watch dog from what I hear, Aiden whateverhisname is race is not the central focus, he is just a guy that supposedly cared about his family until Ubisoft did their magic and completely ruined that angle. It is not about a white guy dealing with white guy issues, is about a guy dealing with issues that he cares about, that same is applicable to every race because every race and gender cares about their family.

Not every game has to be a period piece. Drake (assuming Tomb Raider did not exist) could be a woman or a black man/woman and it wouldn't affect the story in any meaningful way unless the developer want to be stupid about it like they did with the tomb raider reboot.

 

[thebloo]

[*]Yaiba Ninja Gaiden Z

This guy is not white.

 

[Felspawn]

Because white adult males play those games

^

 

[Bigmac1910]

That's because indie developers aren't much better than AAA developers in terms of perpetuating the gamer stereotype. The indie scene suffers from the same discriminatory and marginalizing features that the AAA industry suffers from. As Liz Ryerson states:

Wow, she sounds like a really disgruntled wannabe developer with some bad experiences, with a really narrow minded point of view. I just can't take anything she writes as face value, after all, there is a whole world full of developers outside of the States.

What? Who's saying "write in a female or minority protagonist regardless of if it fits the story or not?". I'm pretty sure all of us are saying "it would be nice to have more female and minority protagonists with good (or passable) stories written around them"

For example the people who are complaining about Assassins Creed Unity's lack of a female character. The game hasn't even been released yet, we know nothing about the story, yet people are already complaining. Let's just wait till game is out and people have finished it, and then we can complain if needed. And maybe the developers will make some changes to their next game if needed.

 

[jon bones]

Why do minority characters always have to justify their existence, to the story, game, everything but that isn't true for straight white males?

10/10 post, thank you for articulating what i was thinking so well

but this is by far my favorite bit

 

[sephiroth7x]

Jut checking this is what you actually meant to write. Cos if so...

Shit that hasn't come on right at all... apologies. Really should have read that back but being at work got pulled away. I didn't mean how that came out. I would edit it but let it remain a gravestone of a stupid comment.

Now I have more time I will ellaborate... I meant that as long as games are not specifically causing racial hatred or promoting it in any way then why should it matter what character is what skin? Pointing to say, Final Fantasy IX, should a character in the main party have been of black skin? (Vivi doesn't count) Should that have mattered?

Should there really be a racism/sexism member of the team who evens out numbers of party members to represent every race/creed/skin colour? Or should we just leave creative control to the guys/gals making the game?

Did anyone notice when Barret was black in Final Fantasy VII and would it have changed the viewpoint of him had he been a big white guy with a gun arm? Not really...

 

[Laconic]

If 90% of the obscenely wealthy in the most powerful nation on the planet were, say, Chinese and/or female, despite the overwhelming majority of Chinese and/or females in said nation being as poor and disenfranchised as the minority White/Blacks and/or males, would this conversation be taking place? Would it even be possible?

 

[SirCrush]

My guess is the rate of female protagonists might be similar to the rate of females who go around killing people either for a living or by trade, Just a hunch.

 

[ab.aeterno]

10/10 post, thank you for articulating what i was thinking so well

but this is by far my favorite bit

Cheers. I just get so exhausted seeing the same arguments used in every thread that comes up. It's like arguing against a mad libs. The main arguments never change, only a few details there in.

My guess is the rate of female protagonists might be similar to the rate of females who go around killing people either for a living or by trade, Just a hunch.

Pointing to fields that have for millennia had a tradition of specifically excluding women as a reason for the low number of women in games seems awfully circular.

 

[Polioliolio]

Every cast of characters must look like the Burger King Kid's Club:

Problem is, the main character is still the white kid with the vr goggles.

 

[Lived1000lives]

Hmm

 

[ab.aeterno]

Every cast of characters must look like the Burger King Kid's Club:

Problem is, the main character is still the white kid with the vr goggles.

If that's a serious comment, and you think that's a fair and valid generalization of what people arguing for diversity and inclusiveness want from every game, then you're either not reading what people are actually posting or being intentionally disingenuous.

 

[EscoBlades]

If you notice that there is more of one colour than another... you're more than likely the racist. Who really gives a SSHH what colour people are anymore?

The same people crying that minorities are demanding better representation in videogames.

Funny that...

 

[jon bones]

.

 

[entremet]

It's a complex topic. Hollywood has the same problem.