Why are there still so many white men in video games
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So Jack Bauer saves the world while coming down off a massive heroin addiction but if he's a girl suddenly it's unbelievable? Have you seen 24 dude none of it is believable. Video games have people fighting magic monsters and suplexing ghost trains, how is making the suplexer a girl all of a sudden where your suspension of disbelief stops?
If you have to prepare for backlash, maybe you should reconsider your position.... I'm also going to go out on a limb and say you're a white male? Maybe you've had so many games to play where you're represented it's hard for you to see why others may also want to feel that way. Empathy dude, it's a good trait.
RockTurtle
Member
I think people would have liked that game better
http://www.pewinternet.org/2008/09/16/part-1-2-basic-gaming-hardware-and-games-played/
FYI From a pew study.
Holy crap why haven't I seen this before? While only applying to teenagers I'm surprised this hasn't been referenced more often.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
http://www.pewinternet.org/2008/09/16/part-1-2-basic-gaming-hardware-and-games-played/
FYI From a pew study.
Wow. My personal experience definitely does not align with that MMO number.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
What? When did I say you could confuse a Japanese person with more "caucasian-like" features with a caucasian person? You're taking my words and running with them a bit too far.
I was directly responding to the images in your post. Now, maybe you can't read them, but some of them talk about features like "thinner lips," "narrow space between eyes and eyebrows," "thin and long noses," "E lines," "deep eye sockets," "long eye lashes," etc.
I'm saying that there are plenty of Japanese people with these features (meaning that "caucasian-like" is the wrong term) and they are very well (perhaps even disproportionately) represented in the media.
If nothing else, it would have been more creative.
That study is OLD.
Wiktor
Member
Yeah. At the same time on emotional irrational level I don't want full equality for selfish reason as I prefer to play as dudes, at least in games where you're supposed to slip yourself into skin of character. I don't mind games with strong female characters, when they actually have personality. But if they're pretty much empty avatar I would have problem immersing myself there if they wouldn't let me play as male.
This is selfish desire and I can ignore it because I know better, but it's still there. So yeah, I can understand why people of other genders want better representation.
Ok...if they default to Capcom style RE diversity they ARE RACIST. This just proves the point that the hiring practices of the large companies are mostly racist...it's not like there's a shortage of African-American fiction writers...the companies just "choose" to not approach them to develop interactive stories.
rokkerkory
Member
Put a girl as the villain or antagonist
and I hope no one complains
and I hope no one complains
unknownhero
Member
actually, how many female villain leads do we have in games? I mean females who are behind everything and aren't just doing the grunt work?
Angelus Errare
Banned
Here are some comparison images that lend to this topic:
This just might be the dumbest thing I've read today.
louis89
Member
Actually eyelid surgery is not at all popular in Japan. You're thinking of Korea, which is a completely different country. You can't just lump them all together as "Asia".
As for bleaching agents, again, Japan is a totally different country to Korea which is a totally different country to China, etc. But pale skin was considered beautiful in the land that is now all three of those countries long before they ever set eyes on white people. Hence geishas painting themselves white.
I agree with your point that video games and other media contribute to people in non-white parts of the world having damaging, warped self-images. But for that, I don't blame the media, I blame those people. They should have the resolve to maintain their own society's beauty standards and not be influenced by Europeans. That's what Malcolm X was trying to teach African Americans back in the 60s.
Ok, I can admire the physical features of a dolphin, but if I choose self-identify with a humanoid dolphin illustration people would think I was crazy. If millions of people that looked like me also self-identified with these humanoid dolphin illustrations and hundreds of comics and animated films/television programs were made annually the bizarre phenomena would, relatively speaking, normalize. There would be one of two societal rationalizations that would occur, maybe they might occur simultaneously: 1.) The dolphin humanoid creatures represent some profound metaphor for social conditions, as presented in life, to this group of real people. 2.) The self-identification with these fictional characters exists to reveal, consciously or unconsciously, a deep seeded self-loathing born from social conditions that exist exclusively for this group of real people.
To take it even further if this group of real people, by the tens of thousands, started paying thousands upon thousands of dollars for cosmetic surgery to appear more dolphin-like and financially supported a specialized cosmetic industry that sold damaging chemicals for the purpose of skin toning to grey it would be pretty evident, and quickly might I add, which of the two rationalizations were more aligned with reality.
The thing is, all the metphor I used are directly analogous to real world trends in Japanese and Asian culture, so there's no question about the self-hate either depicted in fiction or acted on in the real world when it comes to significant portions of Japanese and Asian communities it's just a matter of how long it will take for key people in key positions to accept it for what it is.
I agree but what I'd like to point out is change is probably also happening cause people aren't having patience. If people just waited for change, it probably wouldn't happen at all.
But I'd argue that is also a problem that needs to be addressed. The fact that if they do write another character that's not a white male, they have to put in all the tropes and hit you over the head. They can't just write it as a human that happens to be asian/female/black that can have the same emotions/problems as everyone else.
I don't just want more females in games, I want well written characters in games. I'd rather have a few well written female characters than a lot of cardboard cut out, stereotypical, walking tropes that have no personality other than they are female/black/asian and that is what their personality is. Make them human. Make them real, make them have 3d personalities. They're not just female, they're not just asian, they're not just black, they are people and individuals.
stargateheaven
Member
I really wanna say something, but i'm afraid of getting banned since i wanna say something quite controversial.. lol
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
What is the point of even posting this?
feel free to speak your mind. stating your opinion isn't bannable if you do it in a respectful way.
I think there is something very pleasing about characters with no personality and ones with a lot of personality. (My favorite character is a mute)
The only "character type" I loath is the brooding type. And they are in high abundance for edgy, gritty revenge stories. :/
If the character is about revenge then I probably already hate him/her regardless of appearance.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Usually I'd agree but... my very favourite character is a brooding white (lol, literally) male who's out for revenge (Kain, Legacy of Kain). He's just that awesome.
stargateheaven
Member
Well basically..
It annoys me when people say. "This game needs a black guy" (I remember this was said alot during the upcoming release of playstation all stars"
But i thought. "Why does it NEED?" just to fit into this thought of there needs to be black characters to equal it out or something?
I remember Capcom changing Resident Evil 5, because people complained there were no white people zombies.
I dont know if i'm fully getting my point accross, cos it's hard to explain.
It's just why does it matter? If i make a game, with a white guy, this is my vision and story for the game. And if people wanted me "add a female" "add a black woman" i'd say "no" and get called an asshole. My story just so happens to be about a guy, so why would i include a woman?
Same thing about that new assasins creed.
ughhh i hope i don't sound like a complete dick. :-/
Uhhhh
if it's a fighting game it better have a black guy and a chick and maybe a black chick. It's a fighting game. It ought to have a good selection of colors and fighting styles from around the real or fantasy world. Especially since fighting games have a huge cast usually and a wide audience to cover. Why ignore that?
Look, Smash has Ganondorf, I'm sure Sony could've thought of something.
Hawaii Jeff
Member
Meh they could have mostly blue people in games- I'd still play them if they were good.
Moon_frogger
Member
Marketing. I'd bet my nest egg on a white male too. Sorry, it's just the truth. Besides, it's not enough to make a female protagonist. You need to make her interesting. By the way, most blockbuster films have white male leads, why single out games?
Yeah...this is just my very personal preference. I don't like shooting and I don't like revenge. And that limits my selection quite a bit. Shooting with no revenge (RE4) and revenge without any shooting (AC2) are okay. But the double whammy of shooting, revenge brooding plus the angry white protagonist, who doesn't play by the rules, gameplay is everything I stay away from when playing games.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
I think people are overthinking this part a bit. I'm a black dude that had a white commander shepherd throughout the entire mass effect trilogy. *shrugs* lol.
stargateheaven
Member
Uhhhh
if it's a fighting game it better have a black guy and a chick and maybe a black chick. It's a fighting game. It ought to have a good selection of colors and fighting styles from around the real or fantasy world. Especially since fighting games have a huge cast usually and a wide audience to cover. Why ignore that?
Look, Smash has Ganondorf, I'm sure Sony could've thought of something.
With fighting games, it could be a bit different, it's easier to add a character in with a back story quite easily.
But take some kind of RPG. I don't see why they should add a character of a certain race/gender/etc just to match people's expectations. Why can't the game just be the way it is? Not all companies are against women or other races or something.. sometimes it just so happens this game might not have black people in (aren't there a few Final Fantasys without black people?)
I dunno.. I feel bad for even saying all this. I just feel.. add a black character, if you want to add a black character. Don't just shove him in to look good.
I love how threads like these get more bans dished out than any E3 or NPD thread. Some people really need to learn tact.
Anyway, as I always say in cases like this, yes, we need more women/non-white men in video games/Hollywood films.
HOWEVER.
I would really like it if and when these characters show up that their gender/ethnicity/sexuality is just ONE aspect of their character, not all of it.
I know I'm asking for a lot considering the writing of most video games out there, but still...
So apparently Japanese women are supposed to suffer from rickets?
Anyway, as I always say in cases like this, yes, we need more women/non-white men in video games/Hollywood films.
HOWEVER.
I would really like it if and when these characters show up that their gender/ethnicity/sexuality is just ONE aspect of their character, not all of it.
I know I'm asking for a lot considering the writing of most video games out there, but still...
So apparently Japanese women are supposed to suffer from rickets?
Well sometimes the token black guy is a fun joke character with hidden depth.
And then you get games like FFX which have a Oceania/Caribbean/Southeast Asia feel to it with characters who have a strong range of skin tones. In my mind, Spira has the richest world because of the setting and variety in characters. It felt more interesting because of how worldly everything felt. Like I was actually in a different kind of world. A fantasy world built off of Thailand instead if medieval Europe is amazing and shows real creativity.
Homogenous societies are cool too, but the heterogenous stuff is super fun and a little unexplored. Why keep doing the same fantasy world over and over again? Is that really how new stories come to be?
Our world is going to continue to be more globalized, not less globalized. So sometimes it's a lot better to try and incorporate new things that you've ignored for decades.
I'm black, and I DO think it's a problem.
There are very few games that have characters of racial minorities that aren't either:
I'm not asking for characters of non-American White ethnicities to be forced into games, but for developers to diversify their characters.
I could write more, but I just want to state my stance on the issue.
There are very few games that have characters of racial minorities that aren't either:
- An antagonist
- A hypermasculine and or violent protagonist
- A comedic stereotype
I'm not asking for characters of non-American White ethnicities to be forced into games, but for developers to diversify their characters.
I could write more, but I just want to state my stance on the issue.
Way to go! Would you like to throw any other whole countries of people under the bus?
Press Release by the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery (ASAPS)
Double-eyelid surgery is the most popular cosmetic surgical procedure in Japan.
All minorities are crooks and belligerent animals.
All women are sex workers and nags/liabilities.
This is the crap we have to put up with, and a lot of people don't even notice at all. I don't know if it's hilarious or sad. :/
But yeah, some better representation would be cool to counteract the brainwashing.
Ok, the tibia is slightly curved, but that's a well worn illustration and animation technique to aid in conveying depth while still maintaining the natural curvature of the human form.
I know you can't think that some artists just wanted The Flash to look as if he had rickets...right?
I know you can't think that some artists just wanted The Flash to look as if he had rickets...right?
We're talking about Japanese game developers continuing to inculcate the "White Males Only" ideology through video games via the anime/manga art tradition that is prevalent in many if not most of those games. Discussing that opens another can of worms related to anime/manga characters and the ever open topic about why characters that are supposed to reference real Japanese people look like they're white. To essentially say now that none of these Caucasian features exist together in any one Japanese person's face making them indistinguishable from a white person still doesn't explain why they are all together consistently in the drawn faces of the psuedo Japanese characters of manga/anime/Japanese games.
you don't sound like a dick at all, just lacking in empathy towards women and minorities. i know it may be hard to understand, as you've always had white males to play in video games so it doesn't feel like a problem to you but if you put yourself in anothers perspective you may see what we're talking about.
people want to see themselves represented in the media they consume - especially interactive media - and devs should understand and respect that by now.
Polioliolio
Member
... Because there are so many white gamers. Because there are so many white game developers..
The reason there are so many white male protagonists is because there are a ton of white males making games. This isn't to say all game makers are white males, but, in the west at least, they seem like the dominant demographic. The reason this is the way it is, is because of institutional problems, which I suppose was the outcome the question was fishing for. With regard to race, non-whites have all sorts of disadvantages stemming from lingering effects of legalized segregation, while the gender problem is more because it's still chic to give little boys advanced toys "computers" and "video games" while we give little girls "dumb" toys like barbies. This is changing slowly - it's not really uncommon to see a 5 year old girl with her face buried in an ipad - but it'll be an entire generation before those changes are felt.
IMO, of course.
IMO, of course.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
ITT we learn that it's impossible to create characters that are of a different race, gender or sexuality than your own.
It's obviously not impossible, but it's also obviously less likely. The proof is in the pudding.
It also sort of depends on what you what to convey. I'm not a black male, so I, for example, would never try to capture the struggle of black males in society in a product I'm producing, if only because I'm sure it'd come off as non-authentic. Simply put, I don't have the life experiences necessary to tell a black man's tale with any level of authority. It places a limit on the kind of character I can create, even if making a story about african american struggle would be interesting to me.
toastyToast
Member
To be fair just about everyone is written as a stereotype. Difference is stereotyping women and minorities could lead to trouble which is why we end up Jay Blandsman 99% of the time
Considering how far cry 4 got already thrown under the bus for possibly having a gay character that's also a villain I can kind of understand why writers tend to stay in comfort zones. You won't cause a shitstorm with writing a white straight dude, no matter how bad or stereotypical he's written.
Pretty much any RPG and fighting game. Quite a few adventure games
Beyond Good and Evil
Pandemonium
Most RE
One Assassin's Creed
Fatal Frame
Fear Effect
And dozens I forget.
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