Why are there still so many white men in video games
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Xplatformer
Member
Because in the video game industry this is the norm, not the exception.
Time will improve diversity, but the lack of such is understandable.
Time will improve diversity, but the lack of such is understandable.
ab.aeterno
Member
I think it's interesting that "it's just business" becomes a valid reason for not addressing issues of representation, but is often dismissed when it comes to DLC, microtransactions, preorders, exclusive content, and "lazy" developers not supporting their games.
Night Angel
Member
I don't think anyone is using it as an excuse to not have the discussion or stifle inclusion (or, at least I wasn't). I was simply pointing out that it is WHY they do it, just like it's why they develop DLC and all of those other things. I'm not happy about the lack of inclusion of minorities/women, just like I'm not happy about the prevalence of all of those other issues. Recognizing that it is sound business does not indicate agreement with the practices.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I am not saying it is "right", but it is what it is.
I don't like all of the stuff you mentioned above too.
Part of what I was saying more in a more articulate and succinct way than I described.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrActT_7X6U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrActT_7X6U
Honest question: Do you truly think 50% of people who play games (as we discuss them, and not shit like mobile and social) are female?
I know that ESA thing that says 50% is the case, but it factors in things like Facebook and mobile, which makes that number disingenuous to what people use that number for in arguments (it skews male and female numbers). The argument we're often having is for shit like Watch Dogs, for GTA, and for anything that has a real budget and is sold at retail (though I guess Steam digital storefronts and shit count too).
So, I pose the question: if there was a study done that took all of the people who buy a console/PC exclusively for they themelves to enjoy; the people who play full-priced games purely for the joy of play and absolutely nothing more; the type of people who frequent message boards a la here, /v/, etc; the type of people who listen to gaming podcasts in the same way many of the people here do; and the people who are straight up enthusiastic for the medium, What percentage of gamers would be female?
From my perspective, as someone who went to high school and college in the 2000s when video games were pretty well accepted, as someone who went to a pretty liberal MA college where games are cooler than at most other colleges, as someone who has been to a number of cons/trade shows, and as someone who knows plenty of people across the gender spectrum, I would say a far more realistic percentage, when we talk about game hobbyists akin to here, is 15-20% female.
Not saying females can't love video games and not saying anyone is incapable or better at shit. I'm saying that, from my personal perspective, it seems like hobbyist male game players far outnumber female hobbyist game players.
I know that ESA thing that says 50% is the case, but it factors in things like Facebook and mobile, which makes that number disingenuous to what people use that number for in arguments (it skews male and female numbers). The argument we're often having is for shit like Watch Dogs, for GTA, and for anything that has a real budget and is sold at retail (though I guess Steam digital storefronts and shit count too).
So, I pose the question: if there was a study done that took all of the people who buy a console/PC exclusively for they themelves to enjoy; the people who play full-priced games purely for the joy of play and absolutely nothing more; the type of people who frequent message boards a la here, /v/, etc; the type of people who listen to gaming podcasts in the same way many of the people here do; and the people who are straight up enthusiastic for the medium, What percentage of gamers would be female?
From my perspective, as someone who went to high school and college in the 2000s when video games were pretty well accepted, as someone who went to a pretty liberal MA college where games are cooler than at most other colleges, as someone who has been to a number of cons/trade shows, and as someone who knows plenty of people across the gender spectrum, I would say a far more realistic percentage, when we talk about game hobbyists akin to here, is 15-20% female.
Not saying females can't love video games and not saying anyone is incapable or better at shit. I'm saying that, from my personal perspective, it seems like hobbyist male game players far outnumber female hobbyist game players.
I'd say we make up about 20 to 30% of "hardcore" gamers.
We're a substantial minority, so you can stop pretending we don't exist.
(And we might seems quiet and small because everyone assumes we're male online.)
I like this. I wish more people made stuff like this as opposed to the typical reply videos from Anita.
Also I wish this guy noted Ocarina of Time for being more forward thinking about boys and men too.
We're a substantial minority, so you can stop pretending we don't exist.
(And we might seems quiet and small because everyone assumes we're male online.)
I like this. I wish more people made stuff like this as opposed to the typical reply videos from Anita.
Also I wish this guy noted Ocarina of Time for being more forward thinking about boys and men too.
Just to add another set of statistics to conversation besides the fact that 48% of game players are women as you already probably have seen reported by the ESA the video games industry is a global industry and white people are a minority in the world. They account for roughly 13% of the world's population and the group is shrinking while the other 87% world population is non-white.
The disparity of representation not only of race and gender, but also culture serves to maintain the marginalization of gaming in the global arena as a medium to be taken seriously as art or anything else globally.
The disparity of representation not only of race and gender, but also culture serves to maintain the marginalization of gaming in the global arena as a medium to be taken seriously as art or anything else globally.
For argument's sake, let's assume you're right, does that therefore mean it's a good thing to reflect those percentages in the content of games? I mean, should (white male) gamers be satisfied with only 15-20% of characters and protagonists to present a female or non-white perspective? Honest questions.
Ethics aside, games are all about possibility, fantasy, projection, and doing things you wouldn't do in your ordinary life. It can only make for more fun, more interesting, more worthwhile games to move out of the stale, predictable, ho-hum cookie cutter experiences that still dominate big-budget titles. If so many of us are so big on "innovation," why are so many people still defending playing out the same stale roles?
If--and again, that's a big "if"--the majority of gamers are white men, wouldn't that be all the more reason for game characters to be anything and everything but white men?
well said dude
MaximusPayne
Member
What are you trying to say?
Shmuely Bully
Member
Because the vast majority of game developers are men, which isn't changed one bit by the legions of gender studies majors whining in the wings.
MaximusPayne
Member
That there are plenty of games that don't follow "white men"... this one being my favorite right now.
Pretty much. It never ceases to amaze me how some people seem to think that orcs, aliens, and robots are good for video games, but women would be totally unrealistic and could only have an increased presence through an EVIL FEMINIST AGENDA.
I swear, this thread is literally caught in a time loop.
ab.aeterno
Member
Wait, how do you define "plenty"? What games from the past year or two make it plenty?
Why is it always force instead of ask? Does the act of criticism involve a threat or coercion I'm as yet unaware of?
MaximusPayne
Member
Sorry but not going to make a list of games from the last two years, mate. I would say more than a few is plenty.
ab.aeterno
Member
Well, then that's an irreconcilable disagreement on what constitutes plenty.Sorry but not going to make a list of games from the last two years, mate. I would say more than a few is plenty.
MaximusPayne
Member
That's ok that you disagree, but I've played multiple games within the last two years that don't follow a white male.
paranoidfortean
Member
What an original topic!
ab.aeterno
Member
What an original thread shit!
Alright, so what are those games specifically, since you won't list all games from that time frame with non-white males? It is otherwise in poor form to continually assert something and in no way substantiate it, and if you won't even list the games you've played, it seems pointless to post.
WrenchNinja
Member
Alright guys pack it up, sexism and racism are over.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
OK. Now you're getting into the messy subject of cause and effect. The 50% is useful because even if what you say is true, it still means the market is there. Those women who just play Facebook games or mobile games obviously don't hate games. They're not allergic to the idea of gaming. Even if it's not the kind of gaming you like, you know they are capable of enjoying electronic games.
Then you have to ask the question, why are they playing those games and not these games? That's when things like representation comes into play. Maybe if women didn't feel actively alienated by the games themselves and the culture around "hardcore gaming".
Kinda feared that. Yes, there are such games. Noone is denying that. And they are great and sell. One less argument for the existence of the white hetero male dominance.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
..but this is addressing a very specific sub-set of video games.. not games as a whole..
..also this is discussing the market for that sub-set of video games.. not the worldwide demographics.
Besides, the largest games in the world are in genres where these things don't even matter at all... mobile and MOBA.
Race/Diversity isn't what's holding back certain kinds of games from getting more world-wide support.
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