huh?
Why does GAF lean so much to the left in politics?
- Thread starter Schattenjäger
- Start date
- Status
huh?
Manmademan
Member
Others have already pointed out that both parties identified as "liberal" and "conservative" are actually right wing in a global context.
True left wing liberalism has no political representation here.
That being said, you're being a bit harsh. PoliGAF (where most of the political discussion tends to concentrate) is not at all Anti-Islam, Anti-Taxation, or anti-Union. Assange doesn't really show up on my radar, personally- so I cant comment on the guy.
Don't forget to add that tipping is "horrible and has no place in society".
Also, people here hate unions? I'm going to have to search some threads. That's fucked up.
ironichaos
Member
Or is it? I'd be curious to see if there is a correlation between politics and being a forum composed of "gamers". I've been browsing gaming forums since the late 90s and I don't think I've ever encountered a conservative gaming forum.
I would venture that because gaming is a niche, or at least for many years has had a negative stigma attached to it...it has made the people who participate in it adversarial to those who want to demean and criticize it. We're intimate with being stereotyped which has possibly opened our eyes to the hypocrisy of many conservative values (I'm talking about social conservatism, not economic).
ironichaos
Member
Just because they call themselves Democrats doesn't mean their values are all liberal.
Democrats and liberals are not always the same thing even though they try to advertise themselves as such.
Having a liberal value is just that, it's not a religion. It doesn't mean all your values are liberal. Republicans also have liberal values in their makeup. However, I'm throwing out the idea that it's the fact that we're "gamers" that we tend to embody more liberal social values than conservative.
Absolutely
NEOPARADIGM
Banned
He's right. Add "social darwinism is justified" to his list, too.
I'm sure after all these pages it's already been said, but I saw this one and decided to stop. Yep, this is what I essentially agree with.
There are a lot more Republicans, and other people who lean to the right of center or or even disagree with the Obama administration, here on GAF but most of them just don't speak out with their opinions because they are afraid of being instantly banned, getting attacked by a dozen of other people, mocked, ridiculed, and they just don't have the time to deal with it. I know of a lot of people here that are like that, and I don't blame them. The forum has a great sense of gaming community, and the non political topics are great. They just stay out of threads that are blatantly political, or could turn into a political topic. I lean to the right of center, but to many on the far right even I would be viewed as a crazy extremist liberal, and even with that I rarely will even mention anything related to politics here at all.
At the end of the day gaming is what brought most people here, and that is what most of those people stick to other than a few of the absolutely non-political threads in this part of the board.
AstroNut325
Member
I'm going to quote this because I think it's a great post. And also because I can relate to it. Except I was far right in my college years. Always supporting the libertarian cause and people like Ron Paul and Peter Schiff. I was so warped by conservative ideology that I almost joined the tea party. Then I had a medical emergency in my family (my dad). I witnessed firsthand how f***ed up the American medical system was. My world was turned upside down in a matter of few days.
After that I questioned everything and scrutinized every detail about everything I believed and supported. In doing so i just could not believe that everything I thought was common sense was based almost entirely on philosophical ideals and not on empirical data. Slowly I shed almost all thoughts, ideas and beliefs.
MasterOfPastures
Banned
Sadly, most societies consider critical thinking and deductive reasoning to be symptomatic with left-leaning tendencies, therefore widening the intellectual gap of the base populace since science and reason are put aside.
The clash might be due to the slowly growing refusal of young generations to accepting social, political or educational norms simply because they were considered to be the average.
The clash might be due to the slowly growing refusal of young generations to accepting social, political or educational norms simply because they were considered to be the average.
CornBurrito
Member
I love how Alphanoid abandons threads whenever his made up story about his father's taxes gets brought up.
How come we still got YouTube comments?
What happened?
The reason why is because right wing politics in much of the world has been high jacked by complete idiocy. You read stuff from conservatives in the past and some of what they say makes sense and has nothing wrong with it. Reading stuff about Policy from Republicans like Nixon would be considered liberal today. Now, there are practically zero policies endorsed by conservative candidates that I think make any sense. The current state of conservatism in North America has slowly been taken over by loons and makes real conservatives look bad.
He doesn't understand progressive tax systems.
He doesn't understand progressive tax systems.
CornBurrito
Member
Some time ago he said how the tax system in the US worked in such a way that his father had to purposefully cut his own paycheck, because if he made any more money he would be so heavily taxed that he would make far less than the lowered paycheck.
The very nature of conservatism is wanting things to stay the same. As such, an interactive forum where people challenge each other constantly doesn't lend itself well to conservative conversation, because you'd basically end up with a thread of people quoting each other and going "yup, I agree with this".
A conservative person, whether right or wrong, has made their bubble so to speak, and that idealogy does not enjoy walking inside the bubble through a bunch of needles.
"Left leaning" would mean less since we have so many countries represented on this forum. American Left in some GAF members home country would be their center and in others, right-wing.
Also as a former Republican the fucking party got hijacked (although they were already on a downturn in the first place). They've already went past Conservative into Fundamentalist. And as other people pointed out even past Republican figuredheads would be viewed as liberal today with some of their programs/policies.
A conservative person, whether right or wrong, has made their bubble so to speak, and that idealogy does not enjoy walking inside the bubble through a bunch of needles.
"Left leaning" would mean less since we have so many countries represented on this forum. American Left in some GAF members home country would be their center and in others, right-wing.
Also as a former Republican the fucking party got hijacked (although they were already on a downturn in the first place). They've already went past Conservative into Fundamentalist. And as other people pointed out even past Republican figuredheads would be viewed as liberal today with some of their programs/policies.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
This
Sirpopopop
Member
Up until the Iraq war, there were a fair amount of active Republican posters on Neogaf.
After their views were eviscerated by that war, Republican ideology has kept itself confined to threads about California.
After their views were eviscerated by that war, Republican ideology has kept itself confined to threads about California.
Sirpopopop
Member
Empty Vessel says hi.
It's more that young people haven't obtained enough wealth and capital to say "fuck you, got mine". That of course changes as you get older.
Delusibeta
Banned
You also have to consider that the US is so right-wing, the Democrats would be considered right wing in Europe. As for the Republicans... well, let's just say I don't think they would be allowed to have a large gathering in Germany any time soon, and leave it at that.
because being progressive is a bad thing, right
This thread is interesting. Most people would agree that GAF is slightly liberal leaning and there is nothing wrong with that.
What this thread does point out is there are people who hear who are liberal, logical, and it is what they believe in, and back up what they say with facts.
Then there are people who say things like:
"All republicans are crazy"
What this thread does point out is there are people who hear who are liberal, logical, and it is what they believe in, and back up what they say with facts.
Then there are people who say things like:
"All republicans are crazy"
IsntChrisL
Member
I'm an Independent, myself. I can't really stand the smugness that comes from both sides. The left and right are both equally obnoxious in their own special ways.
I'm really not one to stick up for alphanoid's views but beating him up over that is kind of old, hasn't it run its course?
While the scenario he described was clearly wrong (reducing salary in order to step down to a lower tax bracket and ultimately end up with a higher net income) as described, it's pretty common for high earners to get creative in terms of reducing their taxes. Maybe it was the AMT he was trying to avoid somehow, or maybe he took less income in favor of some other compensation that was taxed at a lower rate, there wasn't really enough detail.
I think its that being "left" persecutes less people, and constantly exercises tolerance. Being right, leans you into the current of defending several severely selfish and divisive positions with logical people, whose only required ammo is the simple use of civil morals and equal rights. This resonates with many people around the world, which is why conservatives find themselves outnumbered when it comes to exposing their beliefs to a larger population.
I'm fine with this.
I'm fine with this.
TheChocolateWar
Member
People who may traditionally lean towards the conservative spectrum are subject to a bit more social stigma than liberals especially among youngsters. A lot of my friends who are liberal have told me that they hate all conservatives. It has definitely caused me to temper some my stances or refrain from talking all that often.
I would also note that there have been other posters who are as left as Empty Vessel who have been banned for reasons similar to those that have caused posters on the right to be banned (Fortified Concept anyone?). Empty Vessel himself has been banned. The international left isn't immune as some here like to portray them to be.
Only someone who views politics under an American lens would ask why this forum is so left wing. The American right here wonder why they get ganged up on? Imagine someone to the right of you who is so out there that even the majority of people on the American right ignore him. The American right is that guy on when placed on the international scale.
Pretty sure he meant no representation in American politics there. Plenty of us left wingers on GAF.
1) Filling out your tax return and seeing the money melt away is probably the biggest impetus for fiscal conservatism. Seeing 20k evaporate isn't fun regardless of what the average rate, median income blah blah blah shit is. I don't think most Gaffers have had that experience yet.
2) Conservatives may not always be socially progressive but are typically far, far ahead of Conservatives in the US who don't quite get the non-interference pillar. GAF has a massive minority community due to its zero-tolerance policy on racism, sexism and homophobia and most are Americans so right wing has "hateful" connotations.
3) Gaffers don't understand economics. Any thread about capitalism gets filled with myopic shit about fiat money being limitless, rose tinted glasses about state capitalism, elitism regarding where resources ought to be allocated, peak oil and all sorts of other fringe beliefs with minimal scholarly backing.
2) Conservatives may not always be socially progressive but are typically far, far ahead of Conservatives in the US who don't quite get the non-interference pillar. GAF has a massive minority community due to its zero-tolerance policy on racism, sexism and homophobia and most are Americans so right wing has "hateful" connotations.
3) Gaffers don't understand economics. Any thread about capitalism gets filled with myopic shit about fiat money being limitless, rose tinted glasses about state capitalism, elitism regarding where resources ought to be allocated, peak oil and all sorts of other fringe beliefs with minimal scholarly backing.
Aw, now we'll never know what your weird post meant.
That's pretty much true.
What do people mean when they say you get banned for being conservative? If by being conservative they mean racist, homophobic, xenophobic, sexist, saying stuff like segregation should be legal or crap like yhat then yes I agree you will be banned. But I've not seen anyone banned just for being conservative without being or expressing any of the above.
"Conservative" and "liberal" are complete misnomers. It is not "conservative" to tear apart a century of legislation based on faith in pseudo-religious axiomatic "economic philosophy."
But most right-wingers I know (and that's many) really are "racist, homophobic, xenophobic, sexist, saying stuff like segregation should be legal." Race is mostly taboo, but the rest of it they're quite open about.
Pretty much. The modern Democrats, at least in leadership positions, are center-right vs Europe or vs 20th century American history.
As an ex-HW-Bush Republican, it kind of pains me to be called a leftist or a commie or a socialist. The Republican party of today is unrecognizable as the same party it was in my childhood. People like William F. Buckley would not survive it, much less me.
But most right-wingers I know (and that's many) really are "racist, homophobic, xenophobic, sexist, saying stuff like segregation should be legal." Race is mostly taboo, but the rest of it they're quite open about.
Pretty much. The modern Democrats, at least in leadership positions, are center-right vs Europe or vs 20th century American history.
As an ex-HW-Bush Republican, it kind of pains me to be called a leftist or a commie or a socialist. The Republican party of today is unrecognizable as the same party it was in my childhood. People like William F. Buckley would not survive it, much less me.
Yep. I think Kryptonian is an example of this.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
You know how the right wings are...
I would suggest that my economics degree suggests that I have some idea about economics.
Riskychris and the (white knight) defense of transgenders when the mods already had it under control and there was good informative transgender topics. Woosh.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
HEY hey hey there, buddy, why don't you and your liberal ilk back up off alphanoid. Can't a conservative express his opinions around here I mean shit.
Fuck your assumptions. According to my tax software, I make more than 91% of Americans and yet pay taxes in the top 1%. And I'm not getting much of anything in services now and expect to not receive Medicare or Social Security when I retire in 40 or 50 years. The fact that people who make far more money than me cheat on their taxes every year doesn't relieve me of the responsibility to contribute to improving my country. How quaint and old-fashioned, right?
The idea that the free market is the silver-bullet solution to every problem the world faces is every bit as insane as the idea that government intervention is the silver-bullet solution. There is no silver bullet, there is no way to "fix the world."
There is a delicate balance that needs to be maintained or else society collapses. I don't think people appreciate how rare and fragile civil society is, and how hard it is to fix once it breaks.
Apparently there is an issue in reading "most" and also conflating conservative with free market dominates all. What fiscal conservatism ought to be is being responsible with public funds. Slashing public sector unions, multi-sourcing, avoiding over reach and guess what? Public healthcare because it is actually cheaper, and in my country the right supports it.
So how about you fuck your assumptions?
Yea this is a load of crap. Most of us have filed taxes especially the regulars when it comes to poligaf and other threads.
Yea this is pretty much the exact opposite of what your thinking. Its a rarity when a conservative gaffer can come up with solid arguments that are backed up by anything at all. Thats the problem in most threads when people just start making up stuff on the spot. They get called out and then they retreat to their corners spouting of stuff like you just posted.
CornBurrito
Member
Well then maybe he could explain himself and clear it up. But because of the fact that he vanishes from any thread it is brought up in, I get the feeling he lied.
Hehehe. The zomg Obama Vacation/Golf days thing was a good-un.
- Status