What kind of opinion are we talking about.
I don't see how racist opinions can be called non discriminatory, for example.
Why does GAF lean so much to the left in politics?
- Thread starter Schattenjäger
- Start date
- Status
What kind of opinion are we talking about.
I don't see how racist opinions can be called non discriminatory, for example.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
I agree that generalizations on both sides are bad. You know, i do respect the old republican movement. I honestly can say that i can´t stand the Tea party movement, or neo conservatives.
I'm sorry, I don't buy that you can pick and choose responsibility for the policies you vote for. If you defer to theocrats on social issues you are by default supporting theocratic policies, there is no wiggling out of that.
Not with first past the post. Any third party that gains enough traction in the USA will either have a good portion of it's platform co-oped by one of the main two parties or will displace one of the main two parties, relegating the former party to a status shared by current third parties.
Oh dear, you seem to have descended into gibberish.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Because David Hume made me left.
I'm a dual citizen, French and American. I tend to vote on the right in France, and on the left in the US. Left in one country does not mean left in another.
I don't like extremes, which is why I don't like the Republican party in the US (would be considered a far far far right party in France), and don't like the NPA and FN in France (far left and far right crazies). If you're a sane conservative, I don't have a problem with that. Unfortunately, sane conservatives don't exist in the US anymore (talking about political parties here, not individuals), and they're needed for debate. The Democrat party still has good candidates, but what happens when we get the equivalent of Tea Party crazies taking over that party as well? We need an alternative, and right now there isn't one.
What does fiscally conservative mean? Have you read or heard anyone call themselves fiscally liberal? It's a meaningless label and it tells me nothing about you. You might as well add to that and say you believe in freedom and liberty.
Exactly the point I was trying to get across, ironically.
this is an interesting idea.
i may disagree with people's opinion, but i won't hate them if there's solid rationale behind it.
Dutch Gronk
Banned
Yeah, this would be it.
Or because they instantly get called stupid to begin with.
most accurate post so far.
Dude Abides
Banned
Considering you don't know how marginal tax rates work I'd be saving the lectures on how reality works, were I you.
This is exactly my position as well. Which makes it kinda difficult to identify on the left-right scale when it can be interpreted differently by different people.
QuiteWhittle
Member
Shall I pull out the relevant statistics?
Is there any party in France or Europe as bad as the Republican Party?
And yet you criticised it for that fact. Own your opinions, or admit they are flawed.
God, he's never going to live that down is he? LOL.
QuiteWhittle
Member
Yes, worse. Major parties? Can be.
Wat?
How did the actions of the US cause the development of health care in Europe?
As to Republicans supporting health care... What's Mitt Romeny's platform? Because Stephen Harper supports health care,and the policy setting conservatives are the ones that set policy.
Sure, there may have been conservative opposition to health care in Canada initially, but it's been supported for decades. It's like asking what the conservative viewpoint is on women's sufferage.
Conservatives were opposed to healthcare during this election cycle. The conservatives arguing against it in the US... Are still sitting out their term. Well not really, because your election system is weird and they have elections staggered and I'm not sure when it's a congressman or a senator doing this or that, but the point is that "Obamacare" isn't even four years old. Is it even two? Is it even enacted yet?
The point is, US is far far far right of the rest of the world. Abortion, sex education, creationism, climate change, health care, unions, the death penalty, gun control etc. etc. are actually points of discussion in American news. In Canada and I imagine in Europe, these issues are solved problems. It'd be like talking about slavery or the 40 hour workweek.
I actually read through right leaning sites like theblaze, breitbart and drudge just to get an idea of the other side's view on things. I feel like if I know the extreme views on a topic I can understand it better.
I must admit though, I've never read anything like theblaze.com before. It seems to me that the site is driven by hate and fuels it with fear. At least once a week there's a story about the black panthers, Louis Farrakhan or some controversial figure that is twisted to scare people that liberals want to harm them physically. Obviously anything Obama is greatly twisted there. I just looked now and there's a photo comparison of Paul Ryan and Joe Biden asking who's manlier. I'd be curious if anyone knows of a left leaning site that does this in the same vein of theblaze.com.
Who needs statistics when you have anecdotes from someone who doesn't understand basic fundamentals?
I think its particular brand of social conservatism is extinct or has fringe support.
Yes, but none are as mainstream as the Republicans.
Choke on the Magic
Banned
Neither party in the US is sane anymore. It almost seems like they're trying to out crazy eachother. Any incumbent in congress will not receive my vote at all after the BS I've seen the past couple of years.
I am not sure this is reducible to any single factor. I suspect simple demographics (generally skewing younger and more international) is probably the biggest factor, though. I do not think moderation policy has as significant an effect as some posters have suggested. There are many posters who are regular participants in those threads and who have lasted for years while posting with conservative positions on all manner of issue.
chaostrophy
Member
I don't pre-judge, or assume that someone is a bigot just because they identify as a conservative or support some conservative position. Of course individuals can be conservative without being bigoted, but when I hear bigotry being presented or defended by some political figure, it is much more often coming from the right than the left. I don't think anyone on either side can deny that.
We have our share of bad parties, we just don't give them near as much attention.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Fiscally conservative could also mean raising taxes on the rich and cutting spending (like defense) to balance the budget. That's where the left stands.
saltinekracka
Member
Are you honestly not catching my drift? It does not mean it is morally right.
You can stereotype conservatives as racists and misogynists, and that's okay in this forum. That's kind of the point of this thread.
CitizenCope
Member
Independent as well. I stay far away from these threads usually. Don't worry though as I'd rather not have looneys in The White House just to get my giant wall built. Obama!!
I'd wager it means that you believe in conservative style economic ideas (lower taxes, less regulation in markets, fewer government services) but with liberal viewpoints on certain issues like gay marriage, abortion, etc. There's no reason why those opinions have to be in opposite parties but it just happens to be that way.
People have mentioned some reasons, like age, location, and even the average tendencies of a heavy internet user but I'd also like to mention the dichotomy of the parties. People vote for opinions on different issues, maybe something as simple as being religious or not religious. If I was gay, I'd have a hard time voting Republican because it seems like the party line is one of "family values".
I personally vote as far left as I can because of my economic beliefs...and I don't know if those will ever change. I could see myself voting for a center party or maybe even a right one if I ever do that move to Europe I've been mulling over for years, but in the US? Maybe never.
Don't get my hopes up.
XANDER CAGE
Member
I dunno if you're joking or not but it's confrontational rubbish like this that really strains the relations between people of different political affiliations on a board like GAF. "Gotcha!" posts and silly sweeping political punditry ("Reality has a liberal bias!" "If we're conservative we're gonna get banned - don't ban me!" "OH SO YOU HATE GAYS!?") just drives the wedge between everyone further.
I seriously do not care what someone's politics are outside of political debates. When politics are brought up, all sides need to have a modicum of respect for each other and also an understanding of how conversation and debate works, instead of trying to be the first to say whatever clever-clogs catchphrase or supposed trump card they have against the other side. A lot of politics threads on GAF turn into soundbite wars, and I wouldn't hesitate to say that a lot of more liberal posters are more guilty of it than others.
Some of my favorite posters on GAF are like... probably 100% opposite from me politically. DennisK4 and Manos, for example, are intelligent dudes who I have a good amount of respect for, regardless of whether I agree with them. If Computer is a conservative, what is asking him about Sarah Palin going to prove? You're either going to get "I don't like her" because guess what, a lot of tories don't, or at the very least, a well-worded response from Computer, because Computer isn't an idiot.
Man, I dunno. I'm down to rumble over politics any day of the week but dogpiling on people for their political views is just silly.
Exactly. Neogaf is not someplace I associate with left-wingedness.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Unfortunately there is a racist party who was in coalition in previous government in Denmark. I would say that they are racist but they are not fiscal conservatives.
The political platform is not anti-gay; it is definitely not PRO-gay marriage rights though and this is typically tied to the religious argument that a traditional marriage is between a man and a woman.
But a) I didn't mention that when I said you shouldn't generalize people as "stupid" or "misogynists" and b) you can lean republican and not agree with every single item on the platform.
I have no problem with the LGBT community and personally could not care less if 2 consenting adults regardless of sex want to marry. More power to them.
I get the feeling that a lot of the "left" in America is pragmatic when it comes to outcomes and aren't necessarily axiomatic in their ideology.
Like, if an outcome is medical care for everyone, do we really care if the private sector provides it as opposed to the government? Whatever gets the job done proper and well, you know?
I find the American right to be, at least in words, more aligned with "The state shouldn't do things" while I feel the left is more "if the state can do something better, why shouldn't it?" as opposed to "The private sector shouldn't do things".
Like, if an outcome is medical care for everyone, do we really care if the private sector provides it as opposed to the government? Whatever gets the job done proper and well, you know?
I find the American right to be, at least in words, more aligned with "The state shouldn't do things" while I feel the left is more "if the state can do something better, why shouldn't it?" as opposed to "The private sector shouldn't do things".
Aaron Strife
Banned
Because conservatives who feel "persecuted" go into the Chick-Fil-A thread and troll gay people or post stupid shit in PoliGAF and wonder why they get banned.
Yeah I would say liberals in general are more flexible in their positions than conservatives, though obviously that's not exclusive to GAF.FLEABttn said:
faceless007
Member
"Most conservatives are racists and misogynists" is not the same statement as "Most racists and misogynists are conservatives."
Trent Strong
Banned
Nerds tend to be more liberal.
There are plenty of horrible political parties in major EU countries but none of them hold as much power as the republican party.
I usually lean a little right in my home country's politics but in USA that would be considered extreme left wing.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Not comparable.
AnathemicOne
Banned
Because there is no "Left" in US politics.
In all seriousness I lean left on social issues because that's just being a decent human being in all honesty and for economic ones I stay out of as I've no idea how they work (must take Economics class soon).
In all seriousness I lean left on social issues because that's just being a decent human being in all honesty and for economic ones I stay out of as I've no idea how they work (must take Economics class soon).
Freezie KO
Banned
Moderation policies and reactionary banning. There was a poster who leaned right that I disagreed with. He got banned for expressing his opinion in a thread. Even though I disagreed with him, I posted about how he was banned for just expressing his opinion, and then I got banned for backseat moderating.
The Albatross
Member
Fiscally liberal has generally fallen out of favor in our (assuming we're younger than 40) lifetimes, because as Milton Friedman put it -- attributing to Nixon -- "We're all Keynesians now, [yet] nobody is a Keynesian."
There isn't much of a need to define fiscal liberalism because even most Republicans are fiscally liberal. Defining yourself as fiscally conservative, generally, still betrays some underlying agreement that we can't completely eliminate debt spending.
If you read this thread from any objective point of view, you'd get the sense that most of Gaf is entirely uneducated when it comes to politics. Seriously, the statements that nobody reacts negatively to are astounding. "I lean left because that's just being a decent human," is equivocable to a conservative christian saying "I am conservatively Christian because that's what God wants," and actually thinking that's a legitimate point of view to hold. That nobody reacts to those sort of ridiculous things is enough to suggest that we're not very bright, we're just so insular and isolated in our beliefs that we reinforce the idea that we're all so smart.
Edit -- and the post below this, "all hateful people seem to be conservatives." You can only believe that's true if you totally isolate yourself from people with other beliefs.
For what it's worth, I'm a registered Republican, but I have a lot of liberal ideas, perhaps more liberal ideas than conservative these days (and frankly, I'd ask what the terms even mean; when it's a "liberal" idea to be against drug decriminalization and a "conservative" idea to have an interventionist foreign policy, we've turned the phases on their heads), but I believe in changing a party from the inside out, not abandoning it and then scolding from the outside.
No. People are stereotyping racists and misogynists as conservatives. A slight difference, but an important one. No one is saying all conservatives are hateful, but all hateful people seem to be conservatives. See the difference?
Further, what party is aligned with anti women and anti gay policies? Again, not every person who votes that way is in agreement with all their policies, but the party is what it is, and conservatism in the US is what it is.
Beat me to it
- Status