Why is Vanille (FFXIII) such a childish character?
- Thread starter Dark_castle
- Start date
If anyone was trying to really rationalize the character it's one part being an irresponsible sack of shit combined with having a really bad coping system and one part poor writing/typical Japanese anime character behavior, seeing as how most of the story didn't even need to happen the way it did if she told the truth or acted more responsibly.
These XIII whine threads are funny.
Vanille basically had the same thing.
But Rikku was a good character
I dunno I thought both Jude and Leia were mature for 15 really. I never really understood why they were 15 though. Medical school at 15, really? Lol
Dark_castle
Junior Member
What you said is true. Many JRPG uses god-like entity or some mythological beast as part of story background. And that's where things start to draw a line. Gods and spirits and other ethereal elements should stay as background of the story.
The actual plot should focuses more on the conflict that's happening within the world, and more importantly, a villain that is actually a human or physical being of some sort. FFXIII-2 did it right by having Caius who had some motivation to being an antagonist to the party, FFXIII doesn't. It just feels right when the last person you're fighting against is a character who had grown with you, constantly appeared throughout the story and built enough story background, screen time and reasons to fight.
Violence Jack
Member
Exactly what I thought. Snow is probably the most annoying FF character I've witnessed. Hope was up there until he finally got over his angst which was around the last few hours of the game. The only thing I found annoying about Vanille was her voice and the little sex noises she makes.
The only two characters that I (and a lot of people) seemed to like were Sazh and Fang.
BibiMaghoo
Member
She exists to irritate.
She is the Yuffie, the Selphie, the Eiko, and the Rikku. A mental lady that exists partly as comic relief, and partly as an irritant to everybody else they travel with. I expect every game to have a..well...a
Vanilluffieeikphiekku? Can we call them that lol?
She is the Yuffie, the Selphie, the Eiko, and the Rikku. A mental lady that exists partly as comic relief, and partly as an irritant to everybody else they travel with. I expect every game to have a..well...a
Vanilluffieeikphiekku? Can we call them that lol?
toastyToast
Member
Vanille was insufferable. The idea of her character arc might have seemed nice floating around in someone's head but in no fucking way was it executed in a fashion approaching well.
And the noises. The noises!!!
And the noises. The noises!!!
Agreed. I don't mind a sexualised character if it's necessary to her character, like if she was seductress or such, as long as it makes sense in context.
The problem is that it seems there's always at least one girl in JRPGs showing off her boobs just for the sake of it and worse, some characters that wear outfits that totally clash with their personality. Just look at some of the stuff Lightning is wearing in Lightning Returns. It is obvious pandering, that in most cases, ruins a character, sadly.
Misread the Vanille for Vanillite.
Did you know gaming is full of crap as they don't even bother to check their sources to see if the facts are true or not.
In fiction, Vanille acts childish because she's hiding her incredibly deep troubles and sadness. But part of it is just bad writing. There's childishness, and there's the entirely oblivious and tone-deaf way she acted in the first chapters of the game while people were getting shot and killed as she encouraged a grief-stricken 14 year old to fly directly into danger to get some kind of revenge.
Not even Japanese cutesy tropes can excuse how terrible she is.
Not even Japanese cutesy tropes can excuse how terrible she is.
spandexmonkey
Banned
I couldn't tell how bad she was due to the black hole that was Hope.
I love this for some reason. :lol
Except Rikku didn't make a bunch of sex noises while operating Machina Maw.
Moreover, pointing out another example does not make the original problem 'right' or 'okay'. "This game did it too!" is hardly a good argument.
What's so true? How can you tell who played the game or not? If someone else played the game and didn't read the datalog or love the game as feverishly as the groupies did, does that mean he or she didn't really play the game?
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I really wonder how many people actually buy a game cause it has a "sexy" female protagonist. Like, really? I was a horny teenager once but I never said " I don't have much interest in this movie. Oh man, there os a sexy female in it? Let's goooooooo"
I just can't imagine this being a huge audience, which incidentally might be the reason why I don't work in marketing anymore.
MaximoffZero
Banned
Unpopular Opinion Time:
I disliked Lightning ten times more than Vanille. She's a boring, stuck up, humorless bitch.
I disliked Lightning ten times more than Vanille. She's a boring, stuck up, humorless bitch.
BibiMaghoo
Member
You would be surprised how many people think like that. It is quite sad.
Maybe back when boys jerked off to the Sears Catlog, The Love Boat, and 3 poly Lara Croft but I cannot see it being much of a selling point today, what with internet porn and all.
True. Though I don't blame players for hating the character as often there is a young woman who acts like that for no discernible reason in jrpgs. I do get tired of female characters acting like idiotic children because the Japanese writer thinks it's endearing. It's probably one reason I like Lightning more than most despite her not being the most well realized character.
You are correct. She's basically a pretty girl with the personality of a piece of wood. I guess some guys dig it.
MaximoffZero
Banned
I have a friend like that. He watches crappy romantic comedies and such just because he thinks the actresses are hot.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I guess. I'm honestly glad I don't know it, so I can pretend that it's not that way.
n00bsauce87
Member
Not even mad, she's the female version of cloud, just more talkative and an axe to grind with Snow... even in the 3rd game.
It took a near-death experience for him to open up, and even then, it wasn't by choice.
I'm not going to jump in the for-/against- Vanille argument (if I had to stare at a character for dozens of hours I don't mind it being her, but I sure as hell wanted to mute her at some points)
But I 100% agree with your statement that I quoted
Dark_castle
Junior Member
*scratches head*
I hate Lightning almost as much as I do Vanille. Just for different reasons. I don't like Lightning simply because she barely grows and she lacks any form of charisma or positive traits in general really, other than looking cool? Yeah, I know she's possibly a lot more likeable towards the end of game (like the entire cast of the game minus Sazh and Fang?), but it doesn't matter because once again, too many setbacks in the game to make me want to see it through the end. *shrug*
I'm also curious as to whether the reason for her behaviour is in the Japanese version.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Localization efforts are often either good or bad, almost never improvements. This was a bad localization of a questionable story.
I saw earlier in the thread that there were supposedly undertones of a lesbian relationship between Fang and Vanille, but in the original they are clearly, obviously sisters.
There's also clear revelations for her behavior (escaping from reality, guilt, memory repression)
I saw earlier in the thread that there were supposedly undertones of a lesbian relationship between Fang and Vanille, but in the original they are clearly, obviously sisters.
There's also clear revelations for her behavior (escaping from reality, guilt, memory repression)
Her way of dealing with trauma is to point a loaded gun at kids head and have the gun possibly misfire? Really?!
McLovin said:
-1000 Year old demon, seriously.
Her and Fang come from a "time you do not understand"/Gran Pulse is decimated and they're turned into crystals before coming back to set in motion the events of FF13.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
I never much had a problem with Vanille myself. She was a happy, cheerful individual, who was suffering harshly due to her focus, and was trying to put on a mask to hide it. You see the cracks in it pretty often though.
As for her voice? Blame the voice director, the actress's normal voice sounds awesome. It's just they wanted her to sound 'japanese-y' so they had her cute it up for some reason.
As for her voice? Blame the voice director, the actress's normal voice sounds awesome. It's just they wanted her to sound 'japanese-y' so they had her cute it up for some reason.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Guns just don't 'misfire' like that, not these days anyhow. most only fire if you pull the trigger itself.
*insert links on GAF from people cleaning loaded guns
AKA: idiots
I'd say 13 suffers more from shoving everything into datalogs than localization really.
biggersmaller
Banned
So...you believe that contrary to the damning evidence proving the opposite (sales, reviews, fan comments) - we all secretly like this character due to her accessibility? No offense, but I think that mindset is part of the problem with Square Enix and many JRPG games today. FFXIII on the whole has zero characters that I would define as accessible, most are barely tolerable.
TRD Mr Blonde
Member
I would say the child characters in Lost Odyssey are the most annoying characters in a jrpg that ive ever played. I think one of them was Mack. The only reason I couldn't finish it.
And I do agree Vanille was pretty cringe worthy. I just finished this game over the weekend and everytime Vanille would start talking my wife would give me odd looks.
And I do agree Vanille was pretty cringe worthy. I just finished this game over the weekend and everytime Vanille would start talking my wife would give me odd looks.
Umm not really, XIII's plot is easier to understand in the JP version because they don't throw around stupid words like "The Maker" or "Her Providence" to cover up for "God" or Goddess" they use the right words like "Kami" or "Shinigami".
You don't need the Datalog to understand the plot.
not exactly, i should probably put a finer point on it. there's something appealing in that, which people in all mediums trying to create that type of character go for, but which they screwed up here because she seems to have the mental capacity of a 5 year old.
I like XIII but come on son.
TRD Mr Blonde
Member
For me personally, the best pat of Final Fantasy was the move set. Having awesome spells like Comet and Ultima along with limit breaks and summons. Although I did enjoy 13 mostly I felt the move set was very un-inspiring. Especially the limit breaks and summons.
Gintoki313
Banned
In Vanille's defense, didn't she grow up in a place with barely any technology? Also, wasn't her
for most of her life? If I'm correct with this, it's not like anyone was there to give her the maturity talk. I could definitely tell this when Sazh and her went to sleep, and she told him to sleep on the other side of the area. Then later in the night she slept right next to Sazh (which I'm guessing is because she was scared).
Can't really say I liked her overall character, even if what I said makes sense. I didn't really like any characters from the XIII universe. The only exceptions were Sazh, Noel, Caius, and sort of Snow.
only friend Fang
Can't really say I liked her overall character, even if what I said makes sense. I didn't really like any characters from the XIII universe. The only exceptions were Sazh, Noel, Caius, and sort of Snow.
Red Mage
Member
Final Fantasy has three female archtypes in almost every game since V: The Chick, the Laddette, and the Cute One.
Vanille is what happens when a person with obvious mental health issues tries to make a "Cute" character.
It doesn't help that Fang comes off older than she actually is. I didn't realize Vanille was 19 because of her behavior and voice. I thought she was the same age as Hope and found the whole romance aspect kind of creepy. Not because it's two women, but because I thought a 28 year old was romancing a 15 year old.
Vanille is what happens when a person with obvious mental health issues tries to make a "Cute" character.
It doesn't help that Fang comes off older than she actually is. I didn't realize Vanille was 19 because of her behavior and voice. I thought she was the same age as Hope and found the whole romance aspect kind of creepy. Not because it's two women, but because I thought a 28 year old was romancing a 15 year old.
I guess everybody has to replay Final Fantasy X because Rikku has such an annoying voice and is the most sexualised character in any Final Fantasy (because of X-2 ... she is nearly naked). I guess everybody forgot that because of her funky swirl eyes and her happy personality. Vanilla is nothing more than a Rikku in FF13 without dressing like a slut or shoving her ass into the camera like in FFX (Tidus and Rikku second cutscene)
I realised that when I replayed Final Fantasy X HD and X-2 HD
I realised that when I replayed Final Fantasy X HD and X-2 HD
Hahahahaha.
SoraanTribal
Member
I'm probably one of the few here who actually likes Vanille as a character. Yeah, she makes weird noises and acts way too happy most of the time (there's a reason for this that is story related). I always considered Fang and Vanille the main characters of XIII, anyways. Lightning was just along for the ride. The only character I didn't really like in XIII was Snow - he was just so damn obnoxious. I'm not saying the cast was amazing or anything like that, but I thought most of them were alright (even Hope/Vanille).
I thought Vanille was fine. A little weird, but whatever. I even actively kept her in my party. Hope, on the other hand, forget that guy!
A lot of my friends used him because he's supposedly the best Ravager in the game, but I don't care. In JRPGs, I refuse to use characters I hate.
A lot of my friends used him because he's supposedly the best Ravager in the game, but I don't care. In JRPGs, I refuse to use characters I hate.
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