Karsticles
Member
OP, are you basically asking why it is worthwhile to have integrity?
Why protest when you're only hurting yourself?
- Thread starter Zakalwe
- Start date
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
If people who consider themselves gamers would spend less time and energy complaining about the games they don't like and more time and money on the games they liked, we'd get better product all around.
People with decision making power don't take you seriously when you consistently vote EA as the worst company in America.
People with decision making power don't take you seriously when you consistently vote EA as the worst company in America.
I "boycott" every last game that isn't worth my time. I like supporting games that are worth my time. There are some things about the way games are distributed that annoy me, but these annoyances are pretty much never large enough to stop me from playing a game that I genuinely want to play.
The suggestion that I'm an addict who can't make decisions on my own due to this is hilarious. Is it seriously so unbelievable that I might enjoy a game enough to "deal with" things like Origin exclusivity? Console exclusivity? Regional exclusivity? DLC that I can easily ignore?
The suggestion that I'm an addict who can't make decisions on my own due to this is hilarious. Is it seriously so unbelievable that I might enjoy a game enough to "deal with" things like Origin exclusivity? Console exclusivity? Regional exclusivity? DLC that I can easily ignore?
For every one game that doesn't get it right, there are ten that do. There are too many games to play in my lifetime so ignoring the bullshit and supporting the real shit is what I choose to do.
The money I save on Ground Zeroes (for example) will go towards a better product(s) for me and send the message that I will support it in the future.
That's all there is to it.
The money I save on Ground Zeroes (for example) will go towards a better product(s) for me and send the message that I will support it in the future.
That's all there is to it.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Is something going on with Ground Zeroes?
SturokBGD
Member
I pity the fool that thinks not spending their hard earned cash on terrible business practices is somehow akin to cutting off their nose to spite their face.
"Boycott" is a terrible word to use for what simply boils down to being smart with your money, though. It implies that the publishers have the power. They don't.
"Boycott" is a terrible word to use for what simply boils down to being smart with your money, though. It implies that the publishers have the power. They don't.
Makes no sense. If you ignore a problem it doesn't go away, so I doubt we'd get better products in the end. As for your second statement, EA actually commented twice the "worst company thing" saying they want to improve, so they are at least aware of the fact, if they didn't care at all, they wouldn't have commented it at all.
Two hours demo for $40.
Lots of people shouting "principles" here, you guys seem to be a scrupulous lot.
No, because "principles" is not the only answer.
And I wouldn't call them principles in that instance. I would say my principles had been compromised.
I said: Principles are important, but so is being realistic.
If you're not a hypocrite, and you stand by your principles to the death, even in the face of apprent futility, then I have utmost respect for you and you're a much better person than I am. I value my own experiences and enjoyment, and that includes current enjoyment as well as striving for a better experience tomrorow, and I have to try to find a balance there.
I don't agree with certain practises that EA commit to, and you won't ever see me investing in their microtransactions for example, but I'm going to play Titanfall because I really want to and I don't beleive the impact of my inclusion is going to be significant either way.
I guess I'm cynical. I just don't see how boycotting Titanfall will help push EA in the right direction. In this instance I recongnise the futility, and I accept it. If that makes me unscrupulous too then so be it.
No, because "principles" is not the only answer.
And I wouldn't call them principles in that instance. I would say my principles had been compromised.
I said: Principles are important, but so is being realistic.
If you're not a hypocrite, and you stand by your principles to the death, even in the face of apprent futility, then I have utmost respect for you and you're a much better person than I am. I value my own experiences and enjoyment, and that includes current enjoyment as well as striving for a better experience tomrorow, and I have to try to find a balance there.
I don't agree with certain practises that EA commit to, and you won't ever see me investing in their microtransactions for example, but I'm going to play Titanfall because I really want to and I don't beleive the impact of my inclusion is going to be significant either way.
I guess I'm cynical. I just don't see how boycotting Titanfall will help push EA in the right direction. In this instance I recongnise the futility, and I accept it. If that makes me unscrupulous too then so be it.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Andodalf
Banned
Not liking a game Isn't the same thing as boycotting. I love Crackdown, but won't buy 2 not on principle, but because of quality.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
So now it's down to two hours, huh...lol
Supporting devs/publishes you like in lieu of complaining about those you don't isn't ignoring the "problem."
Supporting devs/publishes you like in lieu of complaining about those you don't isn't ignoring the "problem."
The answer to your question is encapsulated in this sentence. Different people give different weight to the pros and cons of paying for a product. The people who don't want to play Titanfall enough to use a platform they dislike either don't want to play it as much as you, or dislike the platform enough that it outweighs their desire to play the game. Either way, they are not hurting themselves - they are making a decision based on different weighted values to yourself, that's all. Like anything, principles can be flexible or come loaded with caveats. There's nothing wrong with your stance, but the opposite position is entirely rational, too.
These statements are silly and presumptuous. You alone do not make a difference, but you are part of a larger whole. Furthermore, you don't know how much someone is hurting themselves by refusing to purchase a piece of entertainment media. There are a lot of alternatives out there.
For plenty of companies, the only voice/vote you have is your wallet. The only reason boycotts fail is because those involved don't have the will to back-up their mouths (Call of Duty boycott for removing dedicated servers). DMC/DmC is a prime example of people voting with their wallets, succeeding, and then games journalists blaming fans for choosing what to do with their money.
A sale is a sale, regardless of why you decided not to buy something, it's sending a message.
Well, kind of. You support good developers, so they keep making good games, true.
If you don't protest bad practices they spread though, and they'll reach even those good developers in the end.
No one is talking about standing by one's principles "to the death," but rather standing by them to the point that they decide not buy a video game. Nice hyperbole though. Also, it's not futile. You think Microsoft did a 180 because they had a last minute change of heart? No, they did it because they realized that a lot of people weren't going to buy their console. You can call it a "boycott" or simply "consumers making a choice," but the end result was the same. If people stopped buying $60 EA games full of microtransactions, you can bet they would disappear.
Zakalwe said:
Well, there it is then. Do what you want, no one is stopping you. You obviously aren't bothered enough by EA's business practices to abstain from giving them money, and that's fine. Some people obviously feel differently, and that's fine too.
Comfort Jones
Banned
Why is this question only aimed at gamers?
Also yeah that first post. If you want the market to operate in a healthy manner you have to learn to stand your ground. If missing out on one game is that hard for you when it's something you would apparently consider boycotting, you've become way too much of a mark.
Also yeah that first post. If you want the market to operate in a healthy manner you have to learn to stand your ground. If missing out on one game is that hard for you when it's something you would apparently consider boycotting, you've become way too much of a mark.
I do it because I don't consider myself a hypocrite.
I know it won't change things if I boycott something the masses happily gobble up, but I do it for me personally. For example if I boycotted Game A because a certain company made terrible decisions either with the game or the company itself, and then bought it later on, I would feel guilty about it.
I can't just give up because "Eh, no one else will follow me".
I know it won't change things if I boycott something the masses happily gobble up, but I do it for me personally. For example if I boycotted Game A because a certain company made terrible decisions either with the game or the company itself, and then bought it later on, I would feel guilty about it.
I can't just give up because "Eh, no one else will follow me".
Mugatu
Member
Don't think of yourself as a gamer, think of yourself as a consumer. It's how the industry sees you. As long as you just look at yourself as a fan and think that the industry cares about you then they can take advantage of you and you can become entitled. It's just impersonal business - not saying that's good but that's all gaming is now.
TatteredHat
Member
My principles are more important to me than the possible enjoyment I'd get out of supporting certain industry practices (by buying certain games).
I haven't purchased an Activision product since the Rock Band PS3 GH guitar debacle (and it didn't affect me as I was a 360 Rock Band owner).
I was gifted StarCraft II and DJ Hero, but I haven't given them a cent since. I know it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things because they've got DAT CALL OF DUTY MONEY, but it's the principle of the thing for me.
That was, what, six and a half years ago? (Edit: So I'm approaching that hypothetical dude kick51 is talking about haha.)
I was gifted StarCraft II and DJ Hero, but I haven't given them a cent since. I know it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things because they've got DAT CALL OF DUTY MONEY, but it's the principle of the thing for me.
That was, what, six and a half years ago? (Edit: So I'm approaching that hypothetical dude kick51 is talking about haha.)
I don't boycott, i just don't buy shit I don't like
the "protesters" are funny though. 10 years from now, you'll be talking about Capcom and some dude will be like "man, I'm never buying one of their games after MML3 fiasco!" And you will laugh in his face
Boycotting is really just an extension of buying what you don't like. Boycotting an entire company makes it less transparent what message you're trying to send.
Every company has questionable practices. They should get sales for making good decisions and making good products, and suffer poor sales for poor products.
In your instance, buying Mega Man products sends a better message than not buying anything Capcom related.
I don't really care about what other people choose to do, but I try to play games that I am interested in, and don't play games that I'm not interested in. Pretty simple.
If there are other obstacles getting in the way of me playing games that I'm interested in like, say, price, or subscription fees, or whatever, then I won't play those games unless those obstacles go away. For me, Origin vs. Steam isn't an obstacle, but I can understand why some people might consider it one.
If there are other obstacles getting in the way of me playing games that I'm interested in like, say, price, or subscription fees, or whatever, then I won't play those games unless those obstacles go away. For me, Origin vs. Steam isn't an obstacle, but I can understand why some people might consider it one.
I see this so much, and I find it more and more hilarious and infuriating at the same time. PC Gamers tend to be about unlimited possibilities and open markets, as seen with the thousands of indie games, kickstarters, game mods, etc etc, yet over and over again I see these same people proclaim how they'd be happy living in a world where Valve has an unlimited monopoly on all distribution of PC games.
People talk about the 'walled off gardens' of Sony and Microsoft, but it seems as if some PC gamers would be fine with that garden as long as it's steam.
I don't think you are hurting yourself Boycotting etc. But I would suggest people just don't buy the product rather than ranting at all their available outlets why the games isn't for them without any constructive feedback.
Sure enough post on the official forums or places like Neogaf with some informative opinions rather than the usual "WTFFFF DAY ONEE DLC?!!!! NO BUY THANKS EA DICE ACTIVSION COD". That way if a dev does see it (which they often do and read a lot of the feedback) they can actually use the feedback rather than scrolling past seeing it almost like spam as it is the usual drivel. The above comment is a perfect statements just done in such a self entitled boring way in which it helps no one other than yourself letting off some steam and hope for a reaction.
I think that is the best way to combat stuff you don't like about a product. For example the Sim City thing. Most posts you just read "ALWAYS ONLINE WTH??" Rather than "I wonder why they have designed this to be always online and based around cooperation, sim City has always been such a solitary experience as are most simulator games. I don't think this is for me therefore I won't be buying it at launch!"
Sure enough post on the official forums or places like Neogaf with some informative opinions rather than the usual "WTFFFF DAY ONEE DLC?!!!! NO BUY THANKS EA DICE ACTIVSION COD". That way if a dev does see it (which they often do and read a lot of the feedback) they can actually use the feedback rather than scrolling past seeing it almost like spam as it is the usual drivel. The above comment is a perfect statements just done in such a self entitled boring way in which it helps no one other than yourself letting off some steam and hope for a reaction.
I think that is the best way to combat stuff you don't like about a product. For example the Sim City thing. Most posts you just read "ALWAYS ONLINE WTH??" Rather than "I wonder why they have designed this to be always online and based around cooperation, sim City has always been such a solitary experience as are most simulator games. I don't think this is for me therefore I won't be buying it at launch!"
yeah, but lets not put all markets and all market values in the same basket. The videogame one is a joke compared to, say, those using child labour or animal experimentation
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Dead Early
Banned
That's a really defeatist attitude, OP.
Sure, it takes more than 1 person to send a message, but if all 100000 people who are pissed off do nothing, nothing gets done either way.
"I am dissatisfied with the addition of the following, as such, I will not indulge myself in a purchase of the product" isn't valid feedback?
Sure, it takes more than 1 person to send a message, but if all 100000 people who are pissed off do nothing, nothing gets done either way.
"I am dissatisfied with the addition of the following, as such, I will not indulge myself in a purchase of the product" isn't valid feedback?
Version 3.0
Member
So really, your question is "Why won't you install Origin?"
My answer is simple: I refuse to install Origin because I refuse to install an unnecessary service for every fucking game company out there. I was afraid of this when Steam first came about, and although it's not as bad as I feared, there are too many Steam wanna-bes, and they all suck. If they improve, I'll reconsider.
And, on the flip side, I'm not "hurting myself". I'm drowning in games. I could stop buying games right now and be set for life.
My answer is simple: I refuse to install Origin because I refuse to install an unnecessary service for every fucking game company out there. I was afraid of this when Steam first came about, and although it's not as bad as I feared, there are too many Steam wanna-bes, and they all suck. If they improve, I'll reconsider.
And, on the flip side, I'm not "hurting myself". I'm drowning in games. I could stop buying games right now and be set for life.
There is a very deep difference between the walled gardens born out of greed (Uplay, Origin), those born in an attempt to actively kill free PC gaming (Games for Windows Live), those born out of monopoly (PSN, XBOX live, iOS app store) an Steam.
The kind of trust Steam has earned during the years, some of those other services haven't even started attempting to build (GFWL) or won't even need to try to start because they prey on a de-facto monopoly.
That said, i go GOG whenever i can.
Edit: And Steam goodwill doesn't even come from an innate desire of Valve of saving gaming or whatever, it comes from the fact that steam has a minuscule market share compared to the leading PC distributor: Bittorrent.
Byakuya769
Member
Not playing a damn game is not "hurting myself." I can take it or leave it, and have many other things competing for my time and money.
hellmonkey
Member
I have pretty much boycotted EA. The last game I bought was Dragon Age Origins. I wanted to like and buy NFS hot pursuit, but I played the demo and hated it. It was nothing like the ps2 version I loved. There have been a few EA games that I wanted, but with all the other games I have and my family, I can spend my time and money elsewhere.
snoopeasystreet
Member
Do you guys actually attribute DmC's low sales to people being offended by it?
I just figured it was more of a case of it releasing late in the generation without much marketing. Almost everything AAA in that period sold below expectations.
I just figured it was more of a case of it releasing late in the generation without much marketing. Almost everything AAA in that period sold below expectations.
I can see why protesting about always online was worthwhile. The Xbone was an unproven product on unstable ground. It was extremely subject to change.
Boycotting Titanfall because you don't like EA/Origin just feels like a waste of time. Especially if you really wanted to play the game.
I just think that the boycotting of an inevitably successful game on a well established digital platform is not worth it. If it's purely a matter of principle then fine, I get that.
I guess I am slightly defeatist, there are some things that will never change and sadly I'm not as selfless as many of you.
I was being figurative. Hurting yourself = losing out.
If you were excited about a game and really wanted to play it, but discovered it was only on Origin and your principles couldn't abide that, then you'll be losing out on a gameplay experience that will never happen.
There being alternatives softened the blow, it doesn't remove the specific loss.
I was ignoring these posts, but maybe it's good to respond to one if then once...
It's true, gamers are their own worst enemies. They are the enablers for all the shitty practices we see nowadays.
Not purchasing a game is doing exactly this. It's the only feedback large publishers will really hear.
Corronchilejano
Member
People don't buy games for reasons often entirely different than quality and value of the end product.
LouisaFerre
Member
I have multiple ways of handling this.
If I don't want to support the company or practice and don't have much interest in the game itself(EA games) I just don't buy the game, because I don't care enough to bother.
If I don't want to support the company or practice but really want to play the game(some games by Capcom), I just wait until the price drops and then buy a used copy usually.
I don't really lose much of anything in either case.
If I don't want to support the company or practice and don't have much interest in the game itself(EA games) I just don't buy the game, because I don't care enough to bother.
If I don't want to support the company or practice but really want to play the game(some games by Capcom), I just wait until the price drops and then buy a used copy usually.
I don't really lose much of anything in either case.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
I am my own person. I cannot speak for others as i have no constituency nor constituents.
if im not happy with something or a company does something that i don't agree with,i will not give them any of my money.
it is not for me to decide for others, nor wish any ill will. Until the objectionable thing is remedied, they wont get a penny from me.
i thought it was as simple as that.
if im not happy with something or a company does something that i don't agree with,i will not give them any of my money.
it is not for me to decide for others, nor wish any ill will. Until the objectionable thing is remedied, they wont get a penny from me.
i thought it was as simple as that.
babyghost853
Member
Because the product is not what you want all it to be. Why should anyone pay for a sub par experience? In the grand scheme of things it may not seem like much or have any effect, but I have peach of mind knowing I did not purchase that crap and I feel good about it. I was going to use BF4 as an example but I think Madden is a much better choice, every year fans of the series bitch and complain about it, and yet they buy it, stating "well there is nothing else". This game is a perfect choice for voting with your wallet, if a madden game were to release and sell 50-100k EA would take notice. Most games I give a wait and see approach, new IP will always be bought day one if I am interested. Every time I hear someone say they will buy a flawed game anyway because everyone else will do the same it just makes me laugh.
Point is, people who vote with their wallets are not loosing out, we win because we don't play shit games. I personally would stop gaming before buying shit, if the industry wants to go that way, I will just stand by and watch it burn.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I spend my money on things that will provide value to me. It is impossible to live in the modern world without some of your money tracking back to a questionable practice of some kind.
This does not mean I turn a blind eye, but I try to gauge whether there is a realistic chance of a particular stance having a practical effect. I consider it more effective to enhance support of positive trends than to go out of the way in a display of punishment for something that may be negative.
Example: I will buy a game that offers me a great value even if it comes from a publisher that has problems (or is perceived as being particularly evil), like EA. But I will also emphasize my support of positive practices like quality PC ports of games at good prices. I will double-dip on such games in order to show support.
This does not mean I turn a blind eye, but I try to gauge whether there is a realistic chance of a particular stance having a practical effect. I consider it more effective to enhance support of positive trends than to go out of the way in a display of punishment for something that may be negative.
Example: I will buy a game that offers me a great value even if it comes from a publisher that has problems (or is perceived as being particularly evil), like EA. But I will also emphasize my support of positive practices like quality PC ports of games at good prices. I will double-dip on such games in order to show support.
terrisus
Member
I know it won't change anything, but, I have no desire to pay for (or even accept for free and waste time on) DRM-locked game licenses.
So, regardless of the fact that it won't change anything, and we'll keep moving deeper and deeper down that hole, I will never purchase anything on Steam.
So, regardless of the fact that it won't change anything, and we'll keep moving deeper and deeper down that hole, I will never purchase anything on Steam.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Out of context this thread title is totally rapey.
Anyway, I'm not sure when it became a protest to make informed decisions about how and where to spend your money. And not playing a game doesn't hurt me at all, I have literally thousands of other games I can be playing at any moment. Gaming is a hobby, if I'm enjoying myself I'm not hurting.
Anyway, I'm not sure when it became a protest to make informed decisions about how and where to spend your money. And not playing a game doesn't hurt me at all, I have literally thousands of other games I can be playing at any moment. Gaming is a hobby, if I'm enjoying myself I'm not hurting.
old manatee
Banned
The EA humble bundle is the only reason I have played anything they have put out in the past 3 years or so (I even beat the average!). I've bought 2 Ubisoft titles in maybe the past 4 years and regretted both of them. I can't remember the last Activision game I bought. Diablo 3 pc at launch probably.
I don't think I'm missing out, or I'm punishing myself, or I'm not picking my battles or whatever. There is a constant flood of amazing games coming from other publishers large and small that don't have such an obviously exploitative attitude towards the hobby that I love.
I don't think my failure to buy the last 7 or so Call of Duty games is going to bring down Activision. I just have so many games to play from Valve, Sony, Nintendo, Tripwire, Terry Cavanaugh, Vlambeer, Subset, SCS, cd projekt red, QCF, Frictional, Devolver, Introversion, etc.
I barely have enough time to play the amount of Spelunky I want to play and still have a normal, fulfilling life.
I don't think I'm missing out, or I'm punishing myself, or I'm not picking my battles or whatever. There is a constant flood of amazing games coming from other publishers large and small that don't have such an obviously exploitative attitude towards the hobby that I love.
I don't think my failure to buy the last 7 or so Call of Duty games is going to bring down Activision. I just have so many games to play from Valve, Sony, Nintendo, Tripwire, Terry Cavanaugh, Vlambeer, Subset, SCS, cd projekt red, QCF, Frictional, Devolver, Introversion, etc.
I barely have enough time to play the amount of Spelunky I want to play and still have a normal, fulfilling life.