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[Utako]

- how heavy is a 6" touch screen likely to be compared to a traditional controller?

My guess is a little heavier than an iPad, plus the weight of controller-specific parts. Estimated 825-900g, which is under 2 pounds.

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

That being said, I do hope they offer Blu-ray Disc playback, as it wouldn't be terribly cost-prohibitive. They could at least spec the system in a way that Blu-ray playback could be an unlockable feature and actually follow through this time on selling it through their console eShop equivalent....

No, because Nintendo would have to eat the licensing costs upfront.

If Nintendo isn't using BD playback then why would they have to pay licensing fees upfront? That makes no sense.

They don't pay licensing fees for Wii and the Wii is still capable of playing back DVD's with a little hombrew app. So unlocking Bluray playback later should work the exact same way.

Of course Nintendo eats licensing costs or do you thing Bluetooth on the Wii its free? But eating costs for a Blu Ray movie playback function is not economically smart when they already have stream movie support sorted out.

Of course is not predictive of anything, but common sense is really useful. We didn't get DVD playback on Wii, but streaming was a go. So why eat the licensing costs of a feature that may not be used so often?

Once again your reasoning doesn't make sense to me. Licensing for bluetooth is the comparison? Nintendo uses bluetooth in every Wiimote (& BB) which needs to be used in order to play games and navigate the menu on the system, so of course they would pay the licensing fees for Bluetooth.

How does that compare to Wii using DVD's but not allowing DVD playback, but the drive still being able to playback DVD's with a tweak/hack and then doing the exact same thing for BRD for Wii2 when the time comes?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

So what will the Smash game in Cafe be called?

Smash Cafe?

Well, not like the others have had anything to do with their respective system names. I'm up for some SSB Fracas or SSB Brouhaha.

 

[birdchili]

My guess is a little heavier than an iPad, plus the weight of controller-specific parts. Estimated 825-900g, which is under 2 pounds.

pretty-sure that <2lb is a given. there's no reason this thing is anywhere near as heavy as an ipad.

and yeah... a two-handed controller is not a motion controller, or a reasonable pointer, or nearly as usable for a lot of stuff as a one-handed one. break-away pointer-bit please.

 

[Einbroch]

How do we know the controller doesn't open up like a DS? Wouldn't it make more sense to have a controller that looks normal...with maybe a screen on top? We'd still get the screen and it wouldn't be a wide abomination.

 

[Woffls]

How do we know the controller doesn't open up like a DS? Wouldn't it make more sense to have a controller that looks normal...with maybe a screen on top? We'd still get the screen and it wouldn't be a wide abomination.

We don't know for sure, but none of the reports have indicated such a design. All mentions of the controller have just been 'standard controller with a screen' affairs. Otherwise they'd probably say something like it's just a DS with another stick.

 

[Lupin the Third]

How do we know the controller doesn't open up like a DS? Wouldn't it make more sense to have a controller that looks normal...with maybe a screen on top? We'd still get the screen and it wouldn't be a wide abomination.

Because the rumors say it's more like a GameCube/Dreamcast controller with an iPad stuck in the middle....

 

[Einbroch]

That's dumb. I think a flip-up controller makes perfect sense and would be the most comfortable.

 

[1-D_FTW]

How do we know the controller doesn't open up like a DS? Wouldn't it make more sense to have a controller that looks normal...with maybe a screen on top? We'd still get the screen and it wouldn't be a wide abomination.

But a "wide abomination" would actually be comfortable to hold. And in the heat of the moment, you could easily hit items on the screen with either your left or right thumb. Neither of these statements are true with a clamshell design.

That's dumb. I think a flip-up controller makes perfect sense and would be the most comfortable.

It's going to have contours that make it more like a traditional controller ("grips"). If you find the DS more comfortable than console controllers, you're in the extreme minority.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

Well, not like the others have had anything to do with their respective system names. I'm up for some SSB Fracas or SSB Brouhaha.

Super Smash Bros. Alpha Bravo Turbo HD Remix Mk. II.5: Arcade Tournament Edition (now with more Landmaster!)

 

[SolarPowered]

Another thing that has been bothering me has to do with the potential power of the Cafe. It seems like a lot of people are making the wrong assumption that even Nintendo's heavy tech approach could get completely overshadowed by Sony and Microsoft the moment their new consoles are released sometime 2013/2014.

That situation depends on two things working in favor of MS and Sony(A weak Nintendo console and a speedy 2013 launch at the earliest for Sony and Microsoft). Sony is coming off of one of it's biggest spending sprees(very expensive console) in years that has left them drained and Microsoft is busy making the Kinect a household name. If MS and Sony release new systems in late 2013(Very few can actually believe an earlier launch) it'd still give Nintendo a 12-18 month period to work on nabbing third party content(which gives devs a chance to work on the system and sharpen their fangs). A 2014 launch could make the eventual graphics race an even closer one for years to come if the Cafe becomes the default machine.

It's very likely that we won't much of a difference between the systems on a power front until well after 2015 if Nintendo makes a competent machine and a tiny but growing difference if they make a weak machine.

People are drawing a line in the sand too early regarding graphics and presentation if you ask me...

Super Smash Bros. Alpha Bravo Turbo HD Remix Mk. II.5: Arcade Tournament Edition (now with more Landmaster!)

Super Smash Bros: Rumble in the Jungle

 

[Einbroch]

But a "wide abomination" would actually be comfortable to hold. And in the heat of the moment, you could easily hit items on the screen with either your left or right thumb. Neither of these statements are true with a clamshell design.



It's going to have contours that make it more like a traditional controller ("grips"). If you find the DS more comfortable than console controllers, you're in the extreme minority.

You can have a controller shaped like a gamecube controller and have a flip screen that sticks out the top. You don't have to make it square like a DS. They have smart people at Nintendo, they can do it.

The DS is a nightmare for me to hold. My left thumb always hurts after 20 minutes. Maybe that's the crappy D-Pad, though.

 

[1-D_FTW]

You can have a controller shaped like a gamecube controller and have a flip screen that sticks out the top. You don't have to make it square like a DS. They have smart people at Nintendo, they can do it.

The DS is a nightmare for me to hold. My left thumb always hurts after 20 minutes. Maybe that's the crappy D-Pad, though.

What's it going to close into? You either have massive dead space (that would be better served by just putting the screen there) when it's open, or it would close on/into the buttons and sticks.

 

[Freezie KO]

Well, not like the others have had anything to do with their respective system names. I'm up for some SSB Fracas or SSB Brouhaha.

Super Smash Bros. Scuffle

 

[Lupin the Third]

Well, not like the others have had anything to do with their respective system names. I'm up for some SSB Fracas or SSB Brouhaha.

They have used "brouhaha" to describe countless fighting games in Nintendo Power. This would definitely be a candidate if it didn't sound a tad too close to "Brawl."

 

[Einbroch]

What's it going to close into? You either have massive dead space (that would be better served by just putting the screen there) when it's open, or it would close on/into the buttons and sticks.

Turn it around like those tablet-laptop combination computers, then flip it to the back.

 

[brain_stew]

On the graphics side of things, let's not forget that Project Cafe is not said to be using a AMD R700 GPU but a revamped version of the R700 GPU. IGN's exact wording is "the system will be based on a revamped version of AMD's R700 GPU architecture". And what is the definition of revamp? "1. To patch up or restore; renovate. 2. To revise or reconstruct". So Nintendo used the R700 as a launching pad to create something uniquely their own and potentially far more powerful. Nintendo's revamped R700 GPU may have capabilities that far exceed the original R700 that is spoken of as if its the original R700 that Project Cafe will be using, and its not.

Edit: spelling correction.

Hopefully "revamped' means integrated on the CPU die with a 20MB eDRAM as a shared L3 cache.

 

[Emitan]

You think they might go with 4 shoulder buttons as opposed to 2 this time? All mock designs are overlooking that.

The Classic Controllers had 4, I doubt they're going back to the standard controller paradigm only to exclude extra shoulder buttons, especially when publishers begged for them to include the Z button on the Gamecube controller.

 

[Lupin the Third]

Hopefully "revamped' means integrated on the CPU die with a 20MB eDRAM as a shared L3 cache.

Can they reasonably do this without overheating problems?

 

[Hiro]

Can they reasonably do this without overheating problems?

Nintendo is magic though, they can do anything they want.

 

[Lupin the Third]

Nintendo is magic though, they can do anything they want.

PS3x3 Confirmed!

BELIEVE

 

[Dr.Palutena]

PS3^3 Confirmed!

BELIEVE

fixed
the PS3cube

also Super Smash Bros Kerfuffle .

 

[blu]

Can they reasonably do this without overheating problems?

IBM most definitely can. Not sure about the other participating parties being ok with that, though.

 

[brain_stew]

Can they reasonably do this without overheating problems?

Assuming the original GPU is a 4770 and a ~32nm process then the entire chip should come in under 90w. So, yes, absolutely.

It would be a developers dream.

 

[brain_stew]

IBM most definitely can. Not sure about the other participating parties being ok with that, though.

AMD allowed/helped IBM to do the same thing for Microsoft a year ago. If the demand is there it can be done.

 

[devildog820]

Hopefully "revamped' means integrated on the CPU die with a 20MB eDRAM as a shared L3 cache.

Revamped could also mean something similar to what Apple did to the ARM CPU. They took a lot of power out of it (not clock speed, I'm talking instruction sets) and only focused on stuff they wanted to put in their products. They did it right, though, in making sure that their hardware/software integration was top notch and you would never know stuff was missing.

I have less confidence that Nintendo will be as successful at integrating the two, should they revamp it by taking stuff out. Although, I would bet anything they take out of the chip will be unnecessary for their implementation of Cafe. Hopefully they balance the reductions.

 

[Utako]

pretty-sure that <2lb is a given. there's no reason this thing is anywhere near as heavy as an ipad.

I didn't consider that the screen on the WiiPad will be closer to a Kindle. it'll probably be a little more than half the weight of the iPad 2, in that case, coming in around 350-400g, or under 0.9lbs.

 

[brochiller]

That's dumb. I think a flip-up controller makes perfect sense and would be the most comfortable.

See, I don't see how a flip up controller makes any sense at all. The only reason devices like the GBA SP/DS are like that is because it makes them more portable and easier to carry around as well as protecting the scree. With this controller, it's not meant to be carried for distances longer than the walk across your house, so those issues don't arise. You will always be using the screen when the controller is in use, so making it close when not in use instead of just stay open would be unnecessary.

 

[Mr_Brit]

Revamped could also mean something similar to what Apple did to the ARM CPU. They took a lot of power out of it (not clock speed, I'm talking instruction sets) and only focused on stuff they wanted to put in their products. They did it right, though, in making sure that their hardware/software integration was top notch and you would never know stuff was missing.

I have less confidence that Nintendo will be as successful at integrating the two, should they revamp it by taking stuff out. Although, I would bet anything they take out of the chip will be unnecessary for their implementation of Cafe. Hopefully they balance the reductions.

They'll most likely take out the tesselator.

 

[blu]

They'll most likely take out the tesselator.

Why would they do such a dumb thing?

 

[Zeliard]

I haven't seen every mock-up but I've yet to see one of the 'traditional' dual analog types that truly takes into account the 6" diagonal screen.

 

[Utako]

Turn it around like those tablet-laptop combination computers, then flip it to the back.

That is so lame

 

[ombz]

I'm thinking "revamped" means cutting costs.

 

[Utako]

I haven't seen every mock-up but I've yet to see one of the 'traditional' dual analog types that truly takes into account the 6" diagonal screen.

That's because it's entirely too silly-looking.

I'm betting on a controller that looks like an iPad with buttons, and double bulges in the back.

Or something totally different.

Where are the mock-ups for the cradle? You know this will have a snazzy cradle for touchscreen usage on a coffee table...

 

[Kard8p3]

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/timothy-randall/a/50b/81

An interesting find from the Linkedin page of Timothy Randall. Apparently as early as August of last year he was working on a project for an unannounced nintendo system.

 

[Hiro]

I'm thinking "revamped" means cutting costs.

The same source that reports 'revamped R700' [IGN] also reports that Project Cafe is significantly more powerful than the PS360. This may remain true and costs kept low if Nintendo develops and uses their own innovation and technology to revamp the GPU in question.

 

[Sadist]

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/timothy-randall/a/50b/81

An interesting find from the Linkedin page of Timothy Randall. Apparently as early as August of last year he was working on a project for an unannounced nintendo system.

Was about to post that. This would mean that devkits were sent out after E3.

 

[Kard8p3]

Was about to post that. This would mean that devkits were sent out after E3.

Indeed which would confirm the rumors that some developers have had devkits for months. Seems developers will have a good two years with this thing before launch.

 

[poppabk]

Revamped could also mean something similar to what Apple did to the ARM CPU. They took a lot of power out of it (not clock speed, I'm talking instruction sets) and only focused on stuff they wanted to put in their products. They did it right, though, in making sure that their hardware/software integration was top notch and you would never know stuff was missing.

I have less confidence that Nintendo will be as successful at integrating the two, should they revamp it by taking stuff out. Although, I would bet anything they take out of the chip will be unnecessary for their implementation of Cafe. Hopefully they balance the reductions.

I'm guessing that Nintendo will be adding some fixed hardware functions similar to what they did with the 3DS.

 

[brochiller]

Was about to post that. This would mean that devkits were sent out after E3.

If that's the case then it's amazing that we didn't hear about this until a few weeks ago.

 

[J-Rock]

Indeed which would confirm the rumors that some developers have had devkits for months. Seems developers will have a good two years with this thing before launch.

Which site posted the "devkits after E3" rumor again?

 

[DragonKnight]

Indeed which would confirm the rumors that some developers have had devkits for months. Seems developers will have a good two years with this thing before launch.

how did this thing manage to stay quiet up until now? I mean I know nintendo has great ninjas but damn

 

[wsippel]

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/timothy-randall/a/50b/81

An interesting find from the Linkedin page of Timothy Randall. Apparently as early as August of last year he was working on a project for an unannounced nintendo system.

There's a reason I didn't post a name or link a few hours ago, guys. Oh well...


EDIT: Honestly, the "source please" guys already ruined it for everyone. A few months ago, you could find tons of interesting stuff on Linkedin and similar sites. Not anymore. Because the people on there got a lot more careful. And that's because there's always someone requesting a source, some people comply, and all sources got burned down. It's a terrible habit. Just trust whoever posted something, or chose not to. But don't ask, and don't look for yourself. And if you absolutely have to, do what the original poster did and keep it to yourselves. Don't post it. You're ruining it.

 

[[Nintex]]

If that's the case then it's amazing that we didn't hear about this until a few weeks ago.

They were probably starting to make E3 plans, bring in the marketing people, testing departments and bang stuff leaks.

 

[antonz]

They were probably starting to make E3 plans, bring in the marketing people, testing departments and bang stuff leaks.

Yep for sure. Iwata the other day said the reason the announcement was made now was logistics for E3.

 

[agrajag]

So guys, if the developers had dev kits since after last year's E3, could that possibly mean that the developer comments we heard about Cafe's power are directed towards the dev kits and the real console might be significantly more powerful by now?

 

[richiek]

I've always been partial to Super Smash Bros: Donnybrook.

 

[Utako]

EDIT: Honestly, the "source please" guys already ruined it for everyone. A few months ago, you could find tons of interesting stuff on Linkedin and similar sites. Not anymore. Because the people on there got a lot more careful. And that's because there's always someone requesting a source, some people complied, and all sources got burned down. It's a terrible habit. Just trust whoever posted something, or don't. But don't ask and don't look for yourself. And if you absolutely have to, do what the original poster did and keep it to yourselves. Don't post it. You're ruining it.

You can't keep it a secret forever. I'm sure people will go elsewhere to satisfy their urge to brag about the privileged stuff they know. The cycle continues.

 

[Caesar III]

There's a reason I didn't post a name or link a few hours ago, guys. Oh well...


EDIT: Honestly, the "source please" guys already ruined it for everyone. A few months ago, you could find tons of interesting stuff on Linkedin and similar sites. Not anymore. Because the people on there got a lot more careful. And that's because there's always someone requesting a source, some people comply, and all sources got burned down. It's a terrible habit. Just trust whoever posted something, or chose not to. But don't ask, and don't look for yourself. And if you absolutely have to, do what the original poster did and keep it to yourselves. Don't post it. You're ruining it.

So much this :/

 

[ThatObviousUser]

There's a reason I didn't post a name or link a few hours ago, guys. Oh well...


EDIT: Honestly, the "source please" guys already ruined it for everyone. A few months ago, you could find tons of interesting stuff on Linkedin and similar sites. Not anymore. Because the people on there got a lot more careful. And that's because there's always someone requesting a source, some people comply, and all sources got burned down. It's a terrible habit. Just trust whoever posted something, or chose not to. But don't ask, and don't look for yourself. And if you absolutely have to, do what the original poster did and keep it to yourselves. Don't post it. You're ruining it.

Wah wah wah.