-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Wii 2 (Project Cafe): Officially Announced, Playable At E3, Launching 2012 [Updated]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
- Status
Okay, if people aren't all behind Retro having a go at Zelda, then give them Tingle (hey it's still the Zelda universe) ;-)
But more seriously, why can't the Zelda universe have a spin off series, so that it's not held up to the same standard as the mainline Zelda games. Maybe you could play as a Goron or some other race... I mean Link can't be the only one to have all the fun, right? *shrug*
But more seriously, why can't the Zelda universe have a spin off series, so that it's not held up to the same standard as the mainline Zelda games. Maybe you could play as a Goron or some other race... I mean Link can't be the only one to have all the fun, right? *shrug*
metareferential
Member
Zeliard said:
Bit pedantic, maybe.
But it still doesn't make sense, since Kojima practically never offered such an experience with his games.
There is nothing revolutionary or groundbreaking in the core gameplay of Kojima latest games. His games are famous for other aspects.
It is true that we have never seen Kojima working on other games other than his creations.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
If we are talking about 3rd parties doing Nintendo franchises it should be Treasure doing Starfox, Criterion doing F-Zero & Platinum doing whatever they want.
UltimaPooh
Member
brochiller said:
Minish Cap was awesome and done by Capcom. If they can find another developer who can deliver that well I am fine with it.
The Zelda formula could use a mix up anyways.
butter_stick
Banned
Valve could make an awesome Mario game.
Neon_Icarus
Member
Team Silent would make a great Pokemon game.
...
...
R.I.P Team Silent
...
...
R.I.P Team Silent
brochiller
Member
UltimaPooh said:
I agree that the series could use some fresh ideas and maybe a different take, but I would like to see what Nintendo can do by taking it in a different direction in house before they let a 3rd party develop a console version. I'd like to see a Zelda where Aonuma is given full control without oversight from Miyamoto to see how it turns out. Nintendo is going to have to learn to operate without Miyamoto's oversight sooner or later.
Magicpaint said:
I just love the flow of Metroid Prime. Yes, we lost some of her iconic speed and agility in the process - even though the game still moves fairly fast and with the morphball you can go mach 10, yo - but we also gained so much good, so many novel and interesting gameplay mechanics and such an incredible reinvention of a classic franchise that it has set the standard for similar reboots across the gaming universe. Hell, it was Resident Evil 4 before Resident Evil 4 was Resident Evil 4.
the argument about Bethesda's notorious bug problems is a valid one. that being said, i still think its debatable whether or not they could pull off a Zelda. i am not for it being done without Miyamoto's oversight, however.
regardless, i don't think giving well known Nintendo franchises to western developers would end in disaster. look at the gamble Konami took with Castlevania. sure, the game has problems here and there, but overall, the reboot was a gamble that paid off with a fantastic game.
just lack of relevant info. things will stabilize closer to E3.
regardless, i don't think giving well known Nintendo franchises to western developers would end in disaster. look at the gamble Konami took with Castlevania. sure, the game has problems here and there, but overall, the reboot was a gamble that paid off with a fantastic game.
Dead Man said:
just lack of relevant info. things will stabilize closer to E3.
or go complete shithouse.
Someone make the "third parties doing Nintendo franchises" question into its own thread. I like it!
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd love to have a Zelda spin-off starring Sheik. Such a cool character, and it could be set in another time period altogether (so a different Sheik, then; a descendant of Zelda, so as to not be shackled to OoT's story). It would allow us to enjoy the Zelda world from a new perspective, with completely different gameplay, much like how the various Mario spinoffs have fleshed out Mario's world while offering new experiences.
Make it a mix of Bayonetta/DMC-style combat, Metal Gear Solid stealth, Prince of Persia acrobatics and Mirror's Edge parkour... Give it a hand-drawn aesthetic like Prince of Persia 2008... And have Hideki Kamiya direct it and Platinum Games develop it. If they could get Katsuya Terada to do art direction, that would be the ultimate wet dream.
Won't happen, but Dream Teams are fun.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd love to have a Zelda spin-off starring Sheik. Such a cool character, and it could be set in another time period altogether (so a different Sheik, then; a descendant of Zelda, so as to not be shackled to OoT's story). It would allow us to enjoy the Zelda world from a new perspective, with completely different gameplay, much like how the various Mario spinoffs have fleshed out Mario's world while offering new experiences.
Make it a mix of Bayonetta/DMC-style combat, Metal Gear Solid stealth, Prince of Persia acrobatics and Mirror's Edge parkour... Give it a hand-drawn aesthetic like Prince of Persia 2008... And have Hideki Kamiya direct it and Platinum Games develop it. If they could get Katsuya Terada to do art direction, that would be the ultimate wet dream.
Won't happen, but Dream Teams are fun.
From The Dust
Banned
Speevy said:
current rumors lean towards the Cafe
Are there any actual rumors toward this end? It's easy to speculate it's probable, given we've never seen anything on it. Miyamoto said "It's a Wii title" at last E3, but if Cafe kits were finalized by then, one can picture them shifting it to the new platform in the service of having something substantial playable at Cafe's unveiling. And of course, HD, and the prospect of possibly using the touchscreen for RTS-style hot keys, lends itself well. But all this being said, have there actually been any supposed "leaks" from people in the know?From The Dust said:
AceBandage
Banned
Some Nintendo franchises should be divided to third parties.
Like Star Fox to Treasure.
F-Zero to Monster.
Pikmin to Blizzard
Like Star Fox to Treasure.
F-Zero to Monster.
Pikmin to Blizzard
kekeke
LightofRohan
Member
So is it set in stone that each controller will have a screen? Seems a little pricey to do that. And must be a complete bitch on battery and if you break it you are screwed.
I've said this before in a different thread.
Let it be said again, Retro needs to take the experience they learned from the Prime Games and DKCR and make a 2D Metroid akin to Super Metroid and I want it within a year of Cafe Launch.
Edit~ To Apana post below mine,
I think I would quit gaming.
Let it be said again, Retro needs to take the experience they learned from the Prime Games and DKCR and make a 2D Metroid akin to Super Metroid and I want it within a year of Cafe Launch.
Edit~ To Apana post below mine,
I think I would quit gaming.
shadyspace
Banned
apana said:
lulz do people really hate on Square and FF so hard now that they wouldn't play this game?
Star Fox to Treasure... Good fit. The pacing would be vastly different than their usual fare, of course, but it's still right up their alley.
I'd like to see Mr. Game & Watch get his own series for WiiWare or 3DSWare. A 2D platformer parody of everything retro Nintendo, with of course plenty of references to his own games (Oil Panic, Octopus, etc).
I just loved the Flatland concept in SSB and how he controlled there. Would be great to scurry through sidescrolling levels as Mr. GAW, especially if they kept the "old-timey" feel many GAW games had; they always reminded me of black-and-white cartoons from the silent movie era.
I guess WayForward would be a good fit in this dream scenario.
I'd like to see Mr. Game & Watch get his own series for WiiWare or 3DSWare. A 2D platformer parody of everything retro Nintendo, with of course plenty of references to his own games (Oil Panic, Octopus, etc).
I just loved the Flatland concept in SSB and how he controlled there. Would be great to scurry through sidescrolling levels as Mr. GAW, especially if they kept the "old-timey" feel many GAW games had; they always reminded me of black-and-white cartoons from the silent movie era.
I guess WayForward would be a good fit in this dream scenario.
From The Dust
Banned
Neiteio said:
I want to say Game Informer. it was one of the more prominate sites. it's in the old Cafe thread
Fernando Rocker
Banned
Speaking of Metroid Prime... definitely my favorite game ever. It is my Game of the Forever.
Semi-OT, but as much as I love Metroid Prime, something that's always bothered me about Metroid in general is the name "Space Pirates." I know if you want to get technical you can call them Zebesians -- or this even the case? Maybe they're a variety of species banded together like nomads? -- but "Space Pirates" as a term is just so hokey. And "hokey" is fine when the game doesn't take itself seriously, but Metroid very much does, what with all the attention to detail in ever facility, technology, etc. It doesn't help that the Space Pirate designs change from game to game to game, meaning they never take on a single iconic appearance like, say, a Koopa Troopa. Hard to get attached to something I couldn't draw on paper if asked to draw THE definitive Space Pirate.
[/Metroid fan rant]
[/Metroid fan rant]
Fernando Rocker
Banned
Think about them as different races... just like humans.Neiteio said:
No, I know, I just mean calling them "Space Pirates" collectively seems a little goofy. I mean, don't their computers in MP1 even refer to a Space Pirate High Command? They sound like they have this intricately structured chain of command and all these technological departments, yet even they refer to themselves as what amounts to low-life degenerates... in space! That's like if you had thieves who pilot subs underwater, and they called themselves Sea Thieves, and had a High Council of Sea Thieves, and a President of Sea Thieves, and a Secretary of Sea Thieves, etc, etc. They might as well call themselves Bad Guys.Fernando Rocker said:
Also, the closest we'll get to my dream Sheik spin-off:
The ideal would be more cel-shaded ala PoP 2008. I wonder if there was ever any truth to the rumor that at one time Retro Studios was working on a Sheik spin-off. If Nintendo -ever- toyed with the idea, I'd like to see them take the ball and run with it.
Or maybe my desire, subconciously, is to see the Zelda formula changed up?
shadyspace
Banned
Neiteio said:
Yeah, they're too complex and well-oiled an organization for that title. It'd be like if the Romulans called themselves Space Adversaries.
bgassassin
Member
AceBandage said:
I was thinking the same thing.
apana said:
In other words we won't be able to tell the difference between Link and Zelda while at the same time Link's outfit will have lots of zippers and belts.
Neiteio said:
I know what you want.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mHw5g55oC4
The more I look at the Sheik art, the more I agree. It does have a lovely subtlety to it.M74 said:
Really, I just want Zelda to get its own Luigi's Mansion. By that, I mean a spin-off that provides gameplay different from Zelda, while still being rooted firmly in the Zelda universe. This Sheik title, for instance, could feature familiar figures like Aquamentus or Pols Voice, but you'd be flipping off walls like a ninja, or running across rooftops, or stealth-killing with needles and chains. Different pace, different approach, different gameplay than Zelda -- but it's still exploring the Zelda world, expanding the brand.
Exactly. I wish Retro would've came up with a REAL name for the Space Pirates collective, and simply relegated the term "space pirate" to slang used among Samus and the GF grunts.shadyspace said:
*donotwantdog.gif*bgassassin said:
Some more hardware speculation: Basically, I believe it all comes down to power consumption. Assuming IGN was right and the device is the size of a first generation Xbox360, it's probably also safe to assume that the system will have similar power consumption, so we should be looking at a power budget of around 150 - 200W. Probably closer to the low end, considering the problems Microsoft and Sony had with keeping their systems cool and quiet. Therefore, I guess we're looking at 80W tops for the GPU.
Manufactured at 40nm, the RV740 fits that budget. Considering the timing, I wouldn't completely rule out 28nm, though. According to IBM, using their 28nm HKMG Gate-First process reduces power consumption by 20% and increases performance by 40% compared to 45nm, so for the RV740, we'd be looking at maybe 65, 70W. Now, IGN says the GPU is highly customized, so we'll have to see whatever that means. But that's probably the ballpark.
One important thing to keep in mind regarding all next generation systems is that current top-of-line PC hardware most certainly already outperforms whatever Sony and Microsoft can bring to the table even by 2014. The reason for that is, once again, power consumption. Remember the Samaritan demo? The GPUs alone drew almost 1kW. A lot by PC standards, and completely insane by console standards. Those GPUs were manufactured at 40nm. By 2014, 20nm is expected. Extrapolating IBM's claims, even by 2014, we're still looking at ~500W to achieve that kind of performance, and that's just the graphics part. And I have a hard time picturing any manufacturer releasing watercooled consoles in a massive 19" aluminium case. GPUs didn't get significantly more efficient over the years, the performance increases visible on the PC side were for the most part achieved by increasing the TDP well beyond sane levels.
What all that means is that, at least theoretically, a system released in 2014 wouldn't necessarily be much faster than a system released in 2012 - assuming both use state of the art manufacturing processes and have a similar power consumption. So unless Nintendo once again designs a system that only has one tenth of the power consumption compared to it's competitors, but instead comes up with something that is roughly in line, there's basically no way in hell it'll be leapfrogged just two years later. Well, RAM could become an issue I guess - other than that, there shouldn't be any huge differences.
Manufactured at 40nm, the RV740 fits that budget. Considering the timing, I wouldn't completely rule out 28nm, though. According to IBM, using their 28nm HKMG Gate-First process reduces power consumption by 20% and increases performance by 40% compared to 45nm, so for the RV740, we'd be looking at maybe 65, 70W. Now, IGN says the GPU is highly customized, so we'll have to see whatever that means. But that's probably the ballpark.
One important thing to keep in mind regarding all next generation systems is that current top-of-line PC hardware most certainly already outperforms whatever Sony and Microsoft can bring to the table even by 2014. The reason for that is, once again, power consumption. Remember the Samaritan demo? The GPUs alone drew almost 1kW. A lot by PC standards, and completely insane by console standards. Those GPUs were manufactured at 40nm. By 2014, 20nm is expected. Extrapolating IBM's claims, even by 2014, we're still looking at ~500W to achieve that kind of performance, and that's just the graphics part. And I have a hard time picturing any manufacturer releasing watercooled consoles in a massive 19" aluminium case. GPUs didn't get significantly more efficient over the years, the performance increases visible on the PC side were for the most part achieved by increasing the TDP well beyond sane levels.
What all that means is that, at least theoretically, a system released in 2014 wouldn't necessarily be much faster than a system released in 2012 - assuming both use state of the art manufacturing processes and have a similar power consumption. So unless Nintendo once again designs a system that only has one tenth of the power consumption compared to it's competitors, but instead comes up with something that is roughly in line, there's basically no way in hell it'll be leapfrogged just two years later. Well, RAM could become an issue I guess - other than that, there shouldn't be any huge differences.
bgassassin
Member
Now that I think about it, somebody resurrect Factor 5 and put them on Star Fox.
From The Dust
Banned
Factor 5 isn't dead. They are just making Facebook gamesbgassassin said:
bgassassin
Member
Unless those games say Factor 5 it's dead to me. Nintendo should get those guys together and make them a first party division.
Wolves Evolve
Member
wsippel said:
Great post, and certainly food for thought.
Your analysis suggests that for the moment, Nintendo are likely to aim not too far ahead of the current consoles, and there's not a lot the others can do in turn to counter the heat / power draw issue - so the entire next generation is likely to be a smaller jump (in these terms alone, I mean).
Given that overheating consoles has been a billion-dollar error, I don't think its smart to expect the Wii 2 to have the actual R700 for example. Even increased efficiency is not enough - nobody can afford to take billion dollar risks.
You can absolutely see Nintendo skimping on the RAM though, which will be annoying.
brochiller
Member
wsippelOne important thing to keep in mind regarding all next generation systems is that current top-of-line PC hardware most certainly already outperforms whatever Sony and Microsoft can bring to the table even by 2014. [/QUOTE said:
Anticitizen One
Banned
Disorientator said:
Please God let Project Cafe games look like that
From The Dust
Banned
Only if it was being done by the studio that's doing LA NoireBig One said:
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Anticitizen One said:
Retro developed Metroid game, first person, releasing holiday 2012, achieved with CryEngine 3 (tm).
BELIEVE.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
brochiller said:
You're probably right, but it's that same feeling that people have with any beloved franchise. Whether it's Batman, Superman, Spiderman, the Wizard of Oz, Alice in Wonderland, or Metroid or Zelda, people will always wonder how those worlds might look through another artist's lens.
And just as it would be impossible to imagine a Mario game created by any studio other than Nintendo, it's a testament to Zelda's heroic myth making that speaks to all of us and makes us wonder what it would look and feel like from another perspective.
- Status