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if the price is high the power better be a beast or this will be the first Nintendo home console I finally skip

I have to agree with this. It would make no financial sense to buy the machine if it's specs are just a smidgen above that of the current HD consoles.

I haven't seen this posted

http://fudzilla.com/notebooks/item/22633-wii2-to-be-built-by-hon-hai

If the thing is above $350, it better crush the ps3/360 in terms of performance regardless of the controller.

It's kind of funny that people will probably continue to ignore rumors that indicate a powerful system in favor of rumors that make it seem like the end is nigh. Just putting it in bold for some people...

With the news from Taiwan comes word that the MSRP of the Wii2 will be an estimated $350 to $450.This number is a bit shocking for Nintendo, but actually not unexpected given the hardware that the Wii2 will be using. While others continue to report that the Wii2 will not be HD, the information we have still indicates that the console will use a modified GPU from the ATI R700 family and it will support 1080 HD.

 

[Azure J]

Since Nintendo already said that they would support 3D with the new system (it just won't be a main feature), wouldn't that mean they need to support HDMI 1.4 on the box to make that a true statement?

Where is this coming from? It's not the first time I've heard or seen it posted and now I'm curious.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Didn't IGN say Foxconn was going to manufacture it?

 

[FoneBone]

Where is this coming from? It's not the first time I've heard or seen it posted and now I'm curious.

Nowhere. They've never said it.

 

[JGS]

Where is this coming from? It's not the first time I've heard or seen it posted and now I'm curious.

I remember reading it. It was not Iwata or Reggie though.

They have rejected a 3DTV option like 3DS though.

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

Where is this coming from? It's not the first time I've heard or seen it posted and now I'm curious.

It was said a while ago, but I'm just gonna quote the first source I ran across

“We would like to propose a new approach to home video game consoles” with the Wii successor, Iwata said, without elaborating. “It’s difficult to make 3-D images a key feature, because 3-D televisions haven’t obtained wide acceptance yet.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...-42-will-introduce-wii-successor-in-2012.html

1up said: http://www.1up.com/news/wii-inability-surprise-gamers-spurred-along-successor

Iwata didn't explain just how the new system would allow for customers to be surprised. We do know it's unlikely to be 3D; Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aime has said 3D is unlikely to be the hook for Nintendo's next system. "We've not said publicly what the next thing for us will be in the home console space, but based on what we've learned on 3D, likely, that won't be it," he said last month.

Iwata confirmed the company's thinking on the subject hasn't changed. "We would like to propose a new approach to home video game consoles," he said, Bloomberg reports. "It's difficult to make 3D images a key feature, because 3D televisions haven't obtained wide acceptance yet." It's a perfectly sensible perspective and it doesn't rule out 3D support -- it just won't be what Nintendo sells the system on.

It's not exactly saying that it will definitely be supported but you have to remember that Iwata said that GC supported 3D on chip and so does the Wii.

It's not really a stretch to think that if they actually want to use that 3D on a TV this time around that they would have to abide by industry 3D standards, by including an HDMI port, unless they are once again providing the screen with the system like the 3DS.

 

[1-D_FTW]

I remember reading it. It was not Iwata or Reggie though.

They have rejected a 3DTV option like 3DS though.

You can't really reject it, though. There's nothing inherently special about 3D, it's just the tv being able to render 120hz and syncing with the glasses. It's the reason a game like Crysis 2 can include software support for 3D on all the systems.

 

[iamblades]

If the device has HDMI (which is almost a certainty), then 3d support is pretty much just a software issue, so it will be supported.

It will be a value add though, not a key part of the system though, because they can't be sure everyone has 3d.

 

[Hiltz]

Wasn't it IGN that claimed that the Wii's successor has support for stereoscopic 3D ?

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Didn't IGN say Foxconn was going to manufacture it?

That is a matter of perspective.

Hon Hai Precision Industry Co Ltd was founded in 1974 as a manufacturer of electrical components (notably electrical connectors for computer components[5] -- which found use in the Atari 2600,[7] etc.) by Terry Gou.[5] Foxconn was first a trade name of Hon Hai before becoming a subsidiary of the company in 2000.[5]

 

[JGS]

You can't really reject it, though. There's nothing inherently special about 3D, it's just the tv being able to render 120hz and syncing with the glasses. It's the reason a game like Crysis 2 can include software support for 3D on all the systems.

I meant there were apparently rumors per Reggie that the console would operate like the 3DS- no glasses.

 

[mariosbrother]

I meant there were apparently rumors per Reggie that the console would operate like the 3DS- no glasses.

Not possible with today's TVs.

Edit: NVM, think I read this out of context. (Still not possible, heh)

 

[Dr.Hadji]

Sigh, I know.

Whats likely gonna happen is that Nintendo is gonna show off this thing at E3 with Super Smash Bros Something as a early title (this time, built for the "core gamers" so now its more like Melee and doesn't have that Brawl Balloon feel to the characters. May or may not be made with Sakurai involved) + the Retro Sheik game or something else new from them + 3rd party ports of all the games I want to get on the 360 once I buy one (Bayonetta/ ToV and so on).

And i'm gonna have to ask people to pay this off for me as my bday gift next year like i did for the 3DS. I will then regret buying it early like with my 3DS :/

Please don't kid yourself. Brawl is every bit as "core" as Melee is. Just because one group likes to throw hissy fits doesn't make them any more legit. If anything, I hope Smash keeps on changing. Maybe something to piss off both Brawl and Melee fans this time.

 

[JGS]

Not possible with today's TVs.

That's what he said. In fact, I don't even know why it was asked, but there were crazier rumors than that in the "Revolution" Days.

Found the articles. I guess it was Iwata:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/17/nintendos-iwata-hints-at-possible-3d-console-down-the-road/

You wouldn't have guessed it given Nintendo's outright dismissal of 3D glasses during its E3 keynote this week, but it looks like company CEO Satoru Iwata is at least open to the possibility of a 3D game console down the road -- which would, presumably, require 3D glasses. Speaking to Nikkei, Iwata said that while 3D image quality would currently be "extremely bad" (apparently referring to the Wii), he said that "we'd probably do it with the next system," adding that the timing for a release of a 3D-enabled console would be around when 3D television adoption rates cross the 30% mark. Needless to say, that could be a ways off, and Iwata has already said that Nintendo is in no hurry to the replace the Wii. Iwata does certainly seem to be committed to 3D gaming in general, however, with him flatly saying that "in the future, 3D will become the mainstream of gaming."

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/30/nintendo-teases-next-gaming-console-says-it-probably-wont-be-3/

Nintendo's been denying rumors of a new home console for nearly as long as we can remember, but every so often those crafty execs slip -- accidentally or intentionally letting us know that exciting things are in the works. Well, last we heard from Nintendo president Satoru Iwata, a stereoscopic 3D console was on the table, but Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aime just swept that notion under the rug. "We've not said publicly what the next thing for us will be in the home console space, but based on what we've learned on 3-D, likely, that won't be it," he told CNN, prompting a legion of 3DTV owners to imagine that their favorite Nintendo characters cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. Why would Nintendo dismiss 3D for home gaming on the very same day that its 3D handheld set a sales record? Simply put, the company doesn't think the glasses-free 3DTV market is ready for such applications. Ah well -- guess we'll just have to settle for a Wii HD, then.

 

[manueldelalas]

saved!

If you are using Chrome, you may check this...

Please don't kid yourself. Brawl is every bit as "core" as Melee is. Just because one group likes to throw hissy fits doesn't make them any more legit. If anything, I hope Smash keeps on changing. Maybe something to piss off both Brawl and Melee fans this time.

I thought the major complaint about Brawl was the tripping, which wasn't possible to turn off, so the game wasn't entirely fair. People love Melee because it was incredibly balanced, a very difficult thing to achieve, especially in a game like that.

 

[abstract alien]

I thought all of the 3D rumors were stemming from the revelation of the gamecube's 3D abilities, so I just ignored them all pretty much. If the rumors about Cafe's controller screen are to be believed, it won't output in 3D anyway since there are no 3D screens that use that particular resolution, right? Unless Nintendo starts manufacturing their own...

I could be way the hell off though, as I'm not what I would call knowledgeable on the subject by any means.

 

[1-D_FTW]

I thought all of the 3D rumors were stemming from the revelation of the gamecube's 3D abilities, so I just ignored them all pretty much. If the rumors about Cafe's controller screen are to be believed, it won't output in 3D anyway since there are no 3D screens that use that particular resolution, right? Unless Nintendo starts manufacturing their own...

I could be way the hell off though, as I'm not what I would call knowledgeable on the subject by any means.

I don't think 6.2 inches is a real issue, it's the fact it would be a double-imaged mess if you held it in your lap. Having to pull your controller up to your face every time you wanted to be able to see the 3D merge into a single image would be a deal killer.

 

[NeonZ]

Please don't kid yourself. Brawl is every bit as "core" as Melee is. Just because one group likes to throw hissy fits doesn't make them any more legit. If anything, I hope Smash keeps on changing. Maybe something to piss off both Brawl and Melee fans this time.

I like Brawl more than Melee, but that basically was stated by Sakurai himself.

Sakurai said in one of the message answers from the early Brawl Japanese site that the speed of the game would be moderated, making the game easier to play and broadening its appeal. I don't agree personally, the speed was hardly the most complex thing about Smash, but, that's the reason for some of the system changes. Personally, I think people new to the game and casual gamers have more problems with the third jump concept. The game would have been more accessible if he had bothered to include an option where jumping thrice triggered the third jump attack automatically.

Brawl probably sold more than Melee due to the Wii having a larger userbased and the game itself having more content, like third party characters and a real lenghty single player mode, not because it was slower.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I thought all of the 3D rumors were stemming from the revelation of the gamecube's 3D abilities, so I just ignored them all pretty much. If the rumors about Cafe's controller screen are to be believed, it won't output in 3D anyway since there are no 3D screens that use that particular resolution, right?

Sharp's 800x480 screen is the one that started the 3DS rumours, I thought.
That one can switch between 400x480 and 240x800 per eye for landscape and portrait 3D. but the 3DS uses a specialised pixel layout optimised for landscape only 400x240 3D.

Anyway, that's all beside the point, I think there's no chance they'd put a 3D screen in it. I think the reasons for this have probably been gone over enough so I won't repeat them.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

I thought the major complaint about Brawl was the tripping, which wasn't possible to turn off, so the game wasn't entirely fair. People love Melee because it was incredibly balanced, a very difficult thing to achieve, especially in a game like that.

1. Tripping is stupid but fair. Happens the same to everyone (1% and 2% on ice). And the community has hacked it out anyway.

2 Melee is in no way, shape or form balanced. Not even close to being balanced. Its about as balanced as MvC2 which is to say not very.

As for Cafe. A while ago my brother and I were thinking of a good way to make Smash more than 4 players. I think the rumored Cafe stuff could do it..........somehow.

 

[evangd007]

1. Tripping is stupid but fair. Happens the same to everyone (1% and 2% on ice). And the community has hacked it out anyway.

2 Melee is in no way, shape or form balanced. Not even close to being balanced. Its about as balanced as MvC2 which is to say not very.

As for Cafe. A while ago my brother and I were thinking of a good way to make Smash more than 4 players. I think the rumored Cafe stuff could do it..........somehow.

I, too, wish for 4v4 online Smash games. As for tripping, I'd prefer if it occurred for dash spammers rather than everyone, as that is what it was designed to prevent. Melee Sheik was stupid.

 

[TunaLover]

Miyamoto on the Wii successor...

"Please be patient! Even when the Wii launched, we were developing new hardware. The creation of devices is quite speedy nowadays, and we're always working on new ideas. There’s definitely space for uniqueness in a home console. As you know the Wii is family orientated, played in the living room of the household. We’re hoping to evolve that, there’s a variety of options we can think of. With the more advanced devices, game design is currently at a high level. Nowadays I think it’s really important that designers are really unique and individual. It’s costly if you are focussing on similar ideas, so that uniqueness is important. You can get more budget for games, but your energy must be focussed, otherwise it won’t last. Don't focus on how many stages it's got. Tell me if you’ve seen it before. That’s the challenge for me."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/video-games/8493624/Shigeru-Miyamoto-interview.html

Damn, how it's possible not get excited?
=/

 

[Anth0ny]

1. Tripping is stupid but fair. Happens the same to everyone (1% and 2% on ice). And the community has hacked it out anyway.

2 Melee is in no way, shape or form balanced. Not even close to being balanced. Its about as balanced as MvC2 which is to say not very.

As for Cafe. A while ago my brother and I were thinking of a good way to make Smash more than 4 players. I think the rumored Cafe stuff could do it..........somehow.

wtf it's really not. I've seen players trip into snake's up tilt to lose tournaments.

And Melee is way more balanced than Brawl. MK dominates Brawl... whereas Fox, Falco and Jiggs share the top tier in Melee, with Sheik, Peach, Marth and Falcon just a tier lower.

Please don't kid yourself. Brawl is every bit as "core" as Melee is. Just because one group likes to throw hissy fits doesn't make them any more legit. If anything, I hope Smash keeps on changing. Maybe something to piss off both Brawl and Melee fans this time.

Even Sakurai admits Melee was more difficult than Brawl. Which doesn't make sense. More deep does not mean more difficult. I can still have fun with MVC2 without doing infinites and playing Magneto Storm Sentinel.

As for your "piss off both communities" comment.... what the hell? I think that would mean slower, floatier gameplay, a higher tripping rate, Brawl characters not making it in (and the Melee characters that were absent from Brawl still being absent), and no online leaderboards.

yeah that would be awesome. but at least both Brawl and Melee fans are pissed!

 

[MisterHero]

Please don't kid yourself. Brawl is every bit as "core" as Melee is. Just because one group likes to throw hissy fits doesn't make them any more legit. If anything, I hope Smash keeps on changing. Maybe something to piss off both Brawl and Melee fans this time.

lol Super Smash Bros. 64 3DS with better textures

original gameplay
the original 8 characters (+4 secret)
online
stage builder
final destination

I think this would make Smashboards lose it, lol

DAY ONE

 

[abstract alien]

Miyamoto on the Wii successor...

"Don't focus on how many stages it's got. Tell me if you’ve seen it before. That’s the challenge for me."

This is the best part that excites me. Don't give me the same thing I've seen for the past few years, give me something that plays different. Not just a different character doing the same thing other characters are doing, but a different experience all together.

 

[manueldelalas]

1. Tripping is stupid but fair. Happens the same to everyone (1% and 2% on ice). And the community has hacked it out anyway.

2 Melee is in no way, shape or form balanced. Not even close to being balanced. Its about as balanced as MvC2 which is to say not very.

As for Cafe. A while ago my brother and I were thinking of a good way to make Smash more than 4 players. I think the rumored Cafe stuff could do it..........somehow.

Where are the smilies when I need them?

Oh wait!

The community hacked it any way? yes, but that's the minority of the Brawl players. It was not fair, because it was random shit that happened anywhere at random times. All of the random stuff in Melee could be used in your favor and be avoided, in Brawl not.

Melee was balanced as hell, you could basically master any character; I won a tournament using Link. There wasn't any character that was better or worse than other per se; I've been to tournaments where Ganondorf and Jigglypuff (yes, fucking Jigglypuff, who fucking won) were the finalists.

We'll have to see about more than 4 players. I don't know if I would like it, but it could be something. (too much waiting for the losers?).

 

[ReyVGM]

Guys, Smash Bros for the Cafe has been canceled. Stop arguing now.

 

[Azure Dream]

I think the worst part with tripping is that it can easily happen when you're trying to escape something. If you try to dash out of a trip, you're likely to just trip again. Which means if you're acting half on instinct and you aren't completely registering why your character isn't where you told it to be, you've been stalled long enough to be hit by whatever you were trying to avoid.

 

[NeonZ]

And Melee is way more balanced than Brawl. MK dominates Brawl... whereas Fox, Falco and Jiggs share the top tier in Melee, with Sheik, Peach, Marth and Falcon just a tier lower.

Well, MK aside, Brawl's upper tiers are much more varied than Melee's. Melee's top tiers were basically speedsters, besides one exception, Peach, while Brawl has people like Wario, Snake, Ice Climbers, Diddy and Marth all around the same level.

Melee was balanced as hell, you could basically master any character; I won a tournament using Link. There wasn't any character that was better or worse than other per se; I've been to tournaments where Ganondorf and Jigglypuff (yes, fucking Jigglypuff, who fucking won) were the finalists.

... Yeah, if you're playing on a level low enough that you think those characters are balanced, I don't see how Brawl is any worse. I've won local Brawl tournaments with Captain Falcon, but that doesn't mean anything for the game's balance.

 

[StevieP]

Smash Fans: Giving Zelda fans a run for their money.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Smash Fans: Giving Zelda fans a run for their money.

Someone start a Smash timeline thread to keep them busy!
Is that a new Miyamoto quote up there then? cool.

 

[Krowley]

Miyamoto on the Wii successor...



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/video-games/8493624/Shigeru-Miyamoto-interview.html

Damn, how it's possible not get excited?
=/

Really sounds like they're zeroing in on the idea of untethering the player from the TV as the most central feature.

I'm really interested to see how the whole thing is implemented if that's the case.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

You couldn't be more wrong

Wow thanks for the intelligent argument there, chief.

 

[rpmurphy]

Where are the smilies when I need them?

Oh wait!

The community hacked it any way? yes, but that's the minority of the Brawl players. It was not fair, because it was random shit that happened anywhere at random times. All of the random stuff in Melee could be used in your favor and be avoided, in Brawl not.

Melee was balanced as hell, you could basically master any character; I won a tournament using Link. There wasn't any character that was better or worse than other per se; I've been to tournaments where Ganondorf and Jigglypuff (yes, fucking Jigglypuff, who fucking won) were the finalists.

We'll have to see about more than 4 players. I don't know if I would like it, but it could be something. (too much waiting for the losers?).

Jigglypuff is high tier. So is Ganondorf.

 

[Dreamwriter]

They need to find another manufacturer. I'd rather spend $700 than be responsible for more suicides.

Don't drink the "FoxConn is evil" Kool-aid. Their suicide rate is the same as any major university in the US, and was lower than that region of China in general even before they put up all the anti-suicide nets. The living and working conditions, and the pay scale, are better at FoxConn than most Chinese factories and people are always lining up to get jobs there. Some people work way too long hours, but that's their choice - you have to sign a waiver to work overtime, and specifically ask for that number of hours. A lot of people do so because they want more money to send to their families.

 

[manueldelalas]

Jigglypuff is high tier. So is Ganondorf.

and Link?

 

[rpmurphy]

and Link?

Link is a decent character if you know what you're doing. I've seen good players particularly take advantage of the neutral air and boomerang.

Edit: Jigglypuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTHfcafE9ig

 

[1-D_FTW]

Don't drink the "FoxConn is evil" Kool-aid. Their suicide rate is the same as any major university in the US, and was lower than that region of China in general even before they put up all the anti-suicide nets. The living and working conditions, and the pay scale, are better at FoxConn than most Chinese factories and people are always lining up to get jobs there. Some people work way too long hours, but that's their choice - you have to sign a waiver to work overtime, and specifically ask for that number of hours. A lot of people do so because they want more money to send to their families.

Yeah. When I saw the numbers I was like WTF? Complete sensationalism.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

Smash Fans: Giving Zelda fans a run for their money.

You're right. I'm done.

Spoiler

ITT people confuse "fair" with random things I don't like.

Ok now I'm done.

 

[maeda]

It was not fair, because it was random shit that happened anywhere at random times. All of the random stuff in Melee could be used in your favor and be avoided, in Brawl not.

Okay, that is just stupid. If the probability of it happening is the same for every player in the game it is absolutely fair. What you are trying to say is that it is annoying. If we admit that tripping, as it is set up in the game, is unfair, we have to admit that every single luck based game in the universe is somehow unfair.

 

[DefectiveReject]

Sheesh this thread keeps going.

I wonder how wrong everyone actually will be come June 7th!

 

[ReyVGM]

Wait, I'm looking for that Wii2 topic, but all I see is Smash Bros Brawl talk? What happened?

 

[Anth0ny]

Okay, that is just stupid. If the probability of it happening is the same for every player in the game it is absolutely fair. What you are trying to say is that it is annoying. If we admit that tripping, as it is set up in the game, is unfair, we have to admit that every single luck based game in the universe is somehow unfair.

It's random.

And randomness sucks when you're playing for money.

 

[MisterHero]

Link is a decent character if you know what you're doing. I've seen good players particularly take advantage of the neutral air and boomerang.

Edit: Jigglypuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTHfcafE9ig

I don't know about you guys but all the action between 1:12 to the end was FUCKING COMPELLING

I hope they bring that gameplay back for Smash Bros. Cafe

 

[maeda]

It's random.

And randomness sucks when you're playing for money.

Well, the way you put it makes more sense. However, there are millions of gamblers around the world, who find thrill and enjoyment out of playing for money games based on randomness. So to each his own poison, I guess... Tripping never ticked me off, personally.

 

[manueldelalas]

Wait, I'm looking for that Wii2 topic, but all I see is Smash Bros Brawl talk? What happened?

Happens that there are not more senseless rumors to discuss.

Okay, that is just stupid. If the probability of it happening is the same for every player in the game it is absolutely fair. What you are trying to say is that it is annoying. If we admit that tripping, as it is set up in the game, is unfair, we have to admit that every single luck based game in the universe is somehow unfair.

But the thing is that Smash Bros wasn't a luck based game; Smash Bros isn't Mario Kart (which I love btw, and doesn't have your cars randomly spinning in the track) or Mario Party (which I also love).

Things like crates and other containers containing random stuff was not the same as tripping, because you NEEDED TO ACTIVATE THEM. The difference is you (or someone) throwing a dice, or the dice rolling itself without anyone throwing it.

If you throw a box in Smash Bros, you knew there were possibilities of it exploding, it containing Pokeballs or it containing Starmen. You picked the box, you threw it, and you dealt with the things it had; but the decision to activate it was yours. Tripping is completely random, and it can ruin a fight, especially when the players are at the same level, which sucks.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Okay, that is just stupid. If the probability of it happening is the same for every player in the game it is absolutely fair. What you are trying to say is that it is annoying. If we admit that tripping, as it is set up in the game, is unfair, we have to admit that every single luck based game in the universe is somehow unfair.

It's unfair in the sense that the game is unfair to the player, for each occurence of tripping. It punishes the player for moving around (which is the most basic thing you can do), even though they didn't make a mistake. It temporarily removes control from the player's hands for no valid reason. Basically, you didn't fuck up, but the game randomly chooses to screw you. And you can't do anything about it.

 

[Chet Rippo]

Wait, I'm looking for that Wii2 topic, but all I see is Smash Bros Brawl talk? What happened?

Happens often, just be glad they didn't go off on a Other M tangent like the millionth time.



...No this is not an invitation to discuss Other M.

 

[maeda]

Happens that there are not more senseless rumors to discuss.

But the thing is that Smash Bros wasn't a luck based game; Smash Bros isn't Mario Kart (which I love btw, and doesn't have your cars randomly spinning in the track) or Mario Party (which I also love).

Things like crates and other containers containing random stuff was not the same as tripping, because you NEEDED TO ACTIVATE THEM. The difference is you (or someone) throwing a dice, or the dice rolling itself without anyone throwing it.

If you throw a box in Smash Bros, you knew there were possibilities of it exploding, it containing Pokeballs or it containing Starmen. You picked the box, you threw it, and you dealt with the things it had; but the decision to activate it was yours. Tripping is completely random, and it can ruin a fight, especially when the players are at the same level, which sucks.

It sure was. Think about it. Item containers appeared randomly across the whole map. If you happened to be right next to it, you have far greater chances to "activate" that container. But even if we consider you being right, the fact that they added a luck element to the game doesn't make it automatically inferior. It's the matter of taste.

It's unfair in the sense that the game is unfair to the player, for each occurence of tripping. It punishes the player for moving around (which is the most basic thing you can do), even though they didn't make a mistake. It temporarily removes control from the player's hands for no valid reason. Basically, you didn't fuck up, but the game randomly chooses to screw you. And you can't do anything about it.

But the fact that the game is unfair to every player this way makes it fair.

 

[manueldelalas]

It sure was. Think about it. Item containers appeared randomly across the whole map. If you happened to be right next to it, your chances are far greater to "activate" that container. But even if we consider you being right, the fact that they added a luck element to the game doesn't make it automatically inferior. It's the matter of taste.


But the fact that the game is unfair to every player this way makes it fair.

Yes, there are random elements in Melee, and yes, the appearance of items is one of them, but still, it doesn't take the control of the character for you. Also items fell from the sky, so everyone could see and react and make their choices about that random thing. It's not that you were hitting someone when suddenly he has a starman on. Tripping was unannounced, unwelcome and could ruin leveled fights which is the best aspect of SB.

EDIT: also, items could be turned off (although I don't aprove it, only for crybabies), tripping couldn't be turned off (yes, hack yadda yadda, most players don't mod their Wii).