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[Always-honest]

This is what I still mean when I say "hardcore".

in this way, you can have hardcore mario players, hardcore CoD players, hardcore Cooking Mama players, hardcore counterstrike players, etc.

This is the only definition that could really hold ground, if i HAD to choose.
But i'd rather see this stupid word gone forever.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

I wish gaming can go back to the NES days not technologically but through the variety and novelty it used to offer at that times not just FPS#157454364, shallow sequels or causal this and hardcore that. I don't want gaming to go the way movies went.

There is still a shit ton of variety, man. Just because FPS are the flavor of the day (just as platformers used to be) doesn't mean that there aren't any great games out there.

 

[Gino]

I'm ready for more Smash Bros. Hope that is what Sakura was hinting at a while ago when he was saying "I wonder if I'll get to work on an HD system soon?"

HD Smash, Please!

 

[Holy Order Sol]

There is still a shit ton of variety, man. Just because FPS are the flavor of the day (just as platformers used to be) doesn't mean that there aren't any great games out there.

Seriously. I've basically ignored the genre for two gens and still found a shitload of great stuff to play.

 

[AceBandage]

I still think Smash would make the perfect launch game.
You can show off the upgraded franchises without having to make them right away.

 

[Akai]

I still think Smash would make the perfect launch game.
You can show off the upgraded franchises without having to make them right away.

Kirby won't change in the character introduction trailer...again...

 

[From The Dust]

Kirby won't change in the character introduction trailer...again...

good. that pink little fucker is perfect the way he is

 

[Akai]

good. that pink little fucker is perfect the way he is

Actually, it'd be hilarious if the "change" was him getting angry eyebrows!

 

[Kandinsky]

The hardcore old Nintendo? http://i.imgur.com/KuGsj.gif http://i.imgur.com/KuGsj.gif http://i.imgur.com/KuGsj.gif

Be more subtle with the smileys please or you gonna make us lose those as well!

 

[MYE]

I'm ready for more Smash Bros. Hope that is what Sakura was hinting at a while ago when he was saying "I wonder if I'll get to work on an HD system soon?"

HD Smash, Please!

It will look awesome, i'm sure.
Brawl already looks amazing in HD

 

[AceBandage]

How would Kirby even upgrade in HD?
He's not complex Poly wise, and he has no texture...
Hmmm.

 

[McNum]

How would Kirby even upgrade in HD?
He's not complex Poly wise, and he has no texture...
Hmmm.

He won't. It'd be a running gag, he didn't upgrade from Melee to Brawl either.

 

[Anth0ny]

I still think Smash would make the perfect launch game.
You can show off the upgraded franchises without having to make them right away.

It could also be the ultimate showcase of Nintendo's new and improved online. If I could play Smash online with little/no lag, I'd be a very happy man.

 

[AceBandage]

It could also be the ultimate showcase of Nintendo's new and improved online. If I could play Smash online with little/no lag, I'd be a very happy man.

Exactly. And it'll satiate the early adopters pretty well. Seriously, not launching with an HD SSB would be a horrible mistake.

 

[Bisnic]

How would Kirby even upgrade in HD?
He's not complex Poly wise, and he has no texture...
Hmmm.

Kirby in Smash Cafe.

Now with less jaggies!

 

[From The Dust]

He won't. It'd be a running gag, he didn't upgrade from Melee to Brawl either.

just like Morrgan in Darkstalkers

 

[watershed]

Exactly. And it'll satiate the early adopters pretty well. Seriously, not launching with an HD SSB would be a horrible mistake.

Okay we're getting way ahead of ourselves here. Having HD SSB at launch would be cool but not having it wouldn't b a "horrible mistake". There are plenty of 1st party games that could show off a great online service and great graphics. F-Zero for one, Hell even a NSMBcafe with 4 player lag free online would be great, with voice chat for tons of screaming and yelling. I'm sure someone could think up others.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Hardcore is a term coined by manbabies to validate their gaming habits as something only clever grown-ups with good taste can enjoy.

SMG falls into the category of amazing game, regardless of how you like define yourself as a gamer.
Games like SMG will always outlive the latest trends of childish insecurities practiced by message boards and game journalism.
We had 'kiddeh VS mature' back then, now its 'casual non-games VS real hardcore games'. Only thing i can do is laugh at all this crap.

Whether or not the gaming community as a whole uses the terms the right way, there IS a CLEAR distinction between casual gamers who only bought the Wii for the Wii _____ line of games, or the type of people who buy consoles and only get Madden every year vs. the gamers who buy upwards of 10 + games a year, spend money on DLC, plays tons of hours online, and puts a ton of hours into completing games.

Likewise, there are clear distinctions between casual games, and hardcore games. Are there games that walk the line between both categories? Yes, tons of them, but we can't just say "Oh all games are games, and all gamers are just gamers, there's no difference."

Casual sports fan vs. hardcore sports fan
Casual car guy vs. gearhead
Casual music listener vs. music aficionado
Casual moviegoer vs. movie buff

etc. etc. etc. Let's not act as if the terms "casual gamer" and "hardcore gamer" don't have a place in the industry.

 

[Akai]

Okay we're getting way ahead of ourselves here. Having HD SSB at launch would be cool but not having it wouldn't b a "horrible mistake". There are plenty of 1st party games that could show off a great online service and great graphics. F-Zero for one, Hell even a NSMBcafe with 4 player lag free online would be great, with voice chat for tons of screaming and yelling. I'm sure someone could think up others.

Pikmin 3 could have an associated online mode, and it's the most realistic choice for a launch game...

 

[CrunchyFrog]

$350 sounds about right, I mean the 3DS is priced at $250, of course Nintendo are going for a premium this time around. Now whether it's worth that price, we've got another 32 days, 17 hours, and 37 minutes to wait.

 

[watershed]

Pikmin 3 could have an associated online mode, and it's the most realistic choice for a launch game...

This is pretty much what I'm hoping for. A brand new HD Pikmin would be a great showcase title. In fact there's a thread about what we all want from a new pikmin, great ideas in there. But knowing Nintendo, HD Pikmin for the cafe launch would probably not feature any online play. Like the 3ds we'll get lots of talk about online but when launch comes its all surprisingly absent from their 1st party games.

 

[Chet Rippo]

OK this image is pretty awesome!

 

[Akai]

etc. etc. etc. Let's not act as if the terms "casual gamer" and "hardcore gamer" don't have a place in the industry.

The problem is that the way they are currently used is completely inappropriate, like how Wii is classified as a casual console though having tons of fantastic traditional games, or even more specifically how franchises that are very traditional experiences (Mario Kart and Animal Crossing come to mind, and even MARIO PLATFORMERS) have been undeservedly slammed for being "casual" even though no one had issues with them in generations before...

 

[abstract alien]

The problem is that the way they are currently used is completely inappropriate, like how Wii is classified as a casual console though having tons of fantastic traditional games, or even more specifically how franchises that are very traditional experiences (Mario Kart and Animal Crossing come to mind, and even MARIO PLATFORMERS) have been undeservedly slammed for being "casual" even though no one had issues with them in generations before...

Fire Emblem too, but we could go on and on with this one. So many good games with an actual challenge.

 

[Mortrialus]

Games aren't really hardcore or casual. People are. It's a matter of how you play a game.

There are people who have played Wii Play in a hardcore fashion. There are people who play first person shooters casually.

You still haven't actually given the terms proper, actually useful definitions. Where is the line between a "casual" and a "hardcore"?

Hardcore is a term coined by manbabies to validate their gaming habits as something only clever grown-ups with good taste can enjoy.

SMG falls into the category of amazing game, regardless of how you like define yourself as a gamer.
Games like SMG will always outlive the latest trends of childish insecurities practiced by message boards and game journalism.
We had 'kiddeh VS mature' back then, now its 'casual non-games VS real hardcore games'. Only thing i can do is laugh at all this crap.

the words hardcore and casual need to be banned. They are complete nonsense and completely subjective and completely irrelevant.

Just play the games you like. Others will.

If you want to be considered hardcore, you have (in)security issues and need to adress those.

I agree on all accounts, but I'm specifically asking for someone who believes there are casual and hardcore games and players to actually define what they mean by it because as I see it, the terms are completely useless and lacking any proper definition.

Whether or not the gaming community as a whole uses the terms the right way, there IS a CLEAR distinction between casual gamers who only bought the Wii for the Wii _____ line of games, or the type of people who buy consoles and only get Madden every year vs. the gamers who buy upwards of 10 + games a year, spend money on DLC, plays tons of hours online, and puts a ton of hours into completing games.

Likewise, there are clear distinctions between casual games, and hardcore games. Are there games that walk the line between both categories? Yes, tons of them, but we can't just say "Oh all games are games, and all gamers are just gamers, there's no difference."

Casual sports fan vs. hardcore sports fan
Casual car guy vs. gearhead
Casual music listener vs. music aficionado
Casual moviegoer vs. movie buff

etc. etc. etc. Let's not act as if the terms "casual gamer" and "hardcore gamer" don't have a place in the industry.

If you can't actually provide a working definition, you might as well not use the word because they are completely meaningless.

There is a clear difference in appeal between, say Animal Crossing and Deus Ex, but what about New Super Mario Brothers Wii and Donkey Kong Country Returns are hugely successful. Are they casual? Are they hardcore? Where is the line?

 

[Azure J]

How would Kirby even upgrade in HD?
He's not complex Poly wise, and he has no texture...
Hmmm.

Animations. He could be the Shuma-Gorath of the series with crazy ass animations (though not as insane as Shuma since one is a hero with a perpetual smile on his face and the other is well the abyss personified).

 

[abstract alien]

just like Morrgan in Darkstalkers

I always joked about Mr. G&W being the second coming of Morrgan.

 

[GameplayWhore]

You still haven't actually given the terms proper, actually useful definitions. Where is the line between a "casual" and a "hardcore"?

Wait, there has to be an ironclad line?

I guess we can't use terms like "high budget" and "low budget" when talking about games, either, since there's no official line between the two.

And I suppose we can't use the name "roguelike" to specify a genre, since nobody can quite agree on precisely what the term means quantifiably.


...or maybe some things exist on a continuum, not as stark binary contrasts. "Conservative" and "Liberal", to add some insight from the other side of GAF, have slightly epically different meanings depending on where you are in the world, because the midpoint between the two is subjective. Just because they're not mathematically rigorous in their classification does not magically make descriptives useless.

 

[Mortrialus]

Wait, there has to be an ironclad line?

I guess we can't use terms like "high budget" and "low budget" when talking about games, either, since there's no official line between the two.

And I suppose we can't use the name "roguelike" to specify a genre, since nobody can quite agree on precisely what the term means quantifiably.


...or maybe some things exist on a continuum, not as stark binary contrasts. "Conservative" and "Liberal", to add some insight from the other side of GAF, have slightly epically different meanings depending on where you are in the world, because the midpoint between the two is subjective. Just because they're not mathematically rigorous in their classification does not magically make descriptives useless.

Except conservative and liberal actually describe general political philosophies. You still have yet to provide a definition that has any use whatsoever.

 

[watershed]

Have people started offering predictions on the system yet or will that come later? I mean predictions like system features and launch games not what cpu or chipset is gonna be in the console.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I think calling it 'hardcore' is wrong. Call it 'matoor'.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Have people started offering predictions on the system yet or will that come later? I mean predictions like system features and launch games not what cpu or chipset is gonna be in the console.

I've certainly done that. I have no idea what the CPU is going to be other than it's modern powerpc and multi-core. I think it will be something that can reach higher clockspeeds than the 476FP though.

 

[AceBandage]

Have people started offering predictions on the system yet or will that come later? I mean predictions like system features and launch games not what cpu or chipset is gonna be in the console.

It'll likely have an even better version of the Channels system than the 3DS does. Hopefully also launch with the eShop, since it'll be up and running this month on the 3DS.

 

[Amir0x]

launch games speculation would be so early as to be pointless

uh, it'll have lots of ports and more ports and then some more ports of things and because it'll have ports but they'll be REALLY FULLY FEATURED ports since they benefit from an infinity years of development on HD systems it'll be called a really swell launch by insufferable Nintendo fans detached from reality



Also, it'll have an HD remake of Wave Race 64 and Luigi's Mansion 2.

 

[AceBandage]

launch games speculation would be so early as to be pointless

uh, it'll have lots of ports and more ports and then some more ports of things and because it'll have ports but they'll be REALLY FULLY FEATURED ports since they benefit from an infinity years of development on HD systems it'll be called a really swell launch by insufferable Nintendo fans detached from reality



Also, it'll have Wave Race and Luigi's Mansion 2.

Such baseless lies....
It'll be called good. No one uses swell anymore. Geeze.

 

[wrowa]

Rayman 2. Port of the Dreamcast version - but now with the special feature called "less frames".

 

[NeonZ]

This is pretty much what I'm hoping for. A brand new HD Pikmin would be a great showcase title. In fact there's a thread about what we all want from a new pikmin, great ideas in there. But knowing Nintendo, HD Pikmin for the cafe launch would probably not feature any online play. Like the 3ds we'll get lots of talk about online but when launch comes its all surprisingly absent from their 1st party games.

The problem is just that Pikmin has never been a big franchise. It can work as a graphical showcase, but not as the main title meant to move consoles. I'll be surprised if Smash is there for launch though, but I guess Nintendo knows that they must have some big title right in the beginning if they want to start running out of the gate - even with the 3DS they seemed to know that, they just misjudged the titles, thinking that the Expanded Reality mini games would be able to be the 3DS' WiiSports.

 

[WillyFive]

Such baseless lies....
It'll be called good. No one uses swell anymore. Geeze.

Amir0x does.

And so does Superman.

 

[Amir0x]

Such baseless lies....
It'll be called good. No one uses swell anymore. Geeze.

'but Amir0x I never played these games before since when I buy platforms without the Nintendo logo on it I break out in hives! therefore it is an AMAZING launch! One of the best ever, in fact! Also my GROUND has been BROKEN by the amazing innovative possibilities of a HUD on my controller!'

~ Neteiro or whatever the fuck that rambling fanboys name is

 

[AceBandage]

Hives aren't a joke, man...
Especially if you get them after rubbing a 360 controller on your junk.

 

[GDGF]

Dig that!

Suggestion: Have Yamauchi's head peeking from the chopper next to the random hand. Figure these are going to see a lot of usage come E3

 

[TunaLover]

I finally will play Amir0x games with the Ninty logo on them.

 

[Penguin]

launch games speculation would be so early as to be pointless

uh, it'll have lots of ports and more ports and then some more ports of things and because it'll have ports but they'll be REALLY FULLY FEATURED ports since they benefit from an infinity years of development on HD systems it'll be called a really swell launch by insufferable Nintendo fans detached from reality



Also, it'll have an HD remake of Wave Race 64 and Luigi's Mansion 2.

That's pretty much what I expect the launch to be. Maybe one or two big 3rd party games, which launch same time as the Ps3/360 counter parts.

But 3rd parties are gonna have a field day making money off of games they already sold on a new console.

 

[Amir0x]

I finally will play Amir0x games the Ninty logo on them.

your comment is not in any english language I know about but...

you'll finally join the HD gen and proclaim how amazing graphics are TunaLover?

I'll be over here waiting

That's pretty much what I expect the launch to be. Maybe one or two big 3rd party games, which launch same time as the Ps3/360 counter parts.

But 3rd parties are gonna have a field day making money off of games they already sold on a new console.

I mean I fully expect the system to develop a lineup after 8 months or so but launches always suck, and I think Cafe's will be particularly abused because of how long devs have been dying to be able to port their games to Nintendo's system

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Changing the topic back to the topic:

Why the return of hardcore old Nintendo is looking increasingly likely

"With the news from Taiwan comes word that the MSRP of the Wii2 will be an estimated $350 to $450."

I'm ready for $350 but $450? Take this shit away from me!

 

[MisterHero]

I don't know if anyone has answered this correctly but THERE ARE such things as casual and core audiences. They are defined based on what type of products they're willing to buy and which fit their lifestyle. Core gamers buy all kinds of games and is their one of their primary sources of entertainment so they'll playing more longer and deeper games, while casual customers are more keen to buy games they can play in short bursts and might not be about providing a narrative experience.

Hardcore gamers are extensions of core gamers while "hardcore" itself is more of a title they might give themselves based on their playstyle and the type of content they enjoy (such as very competitive games and games with deep content, both in-game and through things like collector's editions).

Games like Madden, or GTA, Modern Warfare/CoDBlOps, or many of Nintendo's can be argued that they hit all 3 major areas in this spectrum which is why they're so successful. However, not every game needs to sell tons to be successful, despite a publisher wanting to make as much as they can.

He won't. It'd be a running gag, he didn't upgrade from Melee to Brawl either.

People have been able to manipulate Brawl's graphics (and presumably at least lift Melee's to 3d software), can we confirm that for him and Pikachu (through polycounts and such)?

Lol this joke has been bugging me for a long time too

 

[Amir0x]

"With the news from Taiwan comes word that the MSRP of the Wii2 will be an estimated $350 to $450."

I'm ready for $350 but $450? Take this shit away from me!

Don't worry, it won't be $450. If the Kotaku rumours are even half true it's the same old cost cutting, corner-slicing Nintendo they've always been

 

[AceBandage]

I'm betting on $300.

 

[watershed]

The problem is just that Pikmin has never been a big franchise. It can work as a graphical showcase, but not as the main title meant to move consoles. I'll be surprised if Smash is there for launch though, but I guess Nintendo knows that they must have some big title right in the beginning if they want to start running out of the gate - even with the 3DS they seemed to know that, they just misjudged the titles, thinking that the Expanded Reality mini games would be able to be the 3DS' WiiSports.

I agree Pikmin isn't big enough a franchise to be a system seller. But that is odd to me because Pikmin are so cute and enduring in their simplicity. I can't imagine it'd be too hard to make few good tv commercials that sell the pikmin as a sort of Nintendo mascot and communicate the basics of the game. Releasing Pikmin at launch might be what the series needs to shine and gain in popularity. Also as evidenced by this thread http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=429011
Pikmin seems perfect for the rumored features of the cafe.

I hope Nintendo learned their lesson from the 3ds launch. There have to be quality games day one, at least from 1st party offerings especially if 3rd parties are gonna trip all over themselves to under-deliver.

 

[Amir0x]

Pikmin 2 was one of the only games I've ever been able to consistently get my mom and sister to play with me. Not Wii Sports, not fucking any other of that casualtard shit... it was Pikmin 2.

To THIS DAY sometimes my Mom will visit and ask to play a few rounds of Pikmin 2.

Based on this power of love alone, I am going to suppose Pikmin 3 could definitely expand audience if it was marketed with any of the fucking power of a Wii Play/Wii Sports line of games.