Support NeoGAF

[Neiteio]

Honestly, all they would have to do is really expand the social capabilities (add a world you can travel about it, MMO-style, with various hubs. Yours is a town that has to exist in an economy so it is beneficial for you to start a business or grow crops or become self-sufficient) and add real penalties for not performing your duties and it might begin to form into something compelling. The idea itself is not bad, the execution is. Of course I don't think it should be THE SIMS either where you gotta direct your dude to take a shit.

Also, completely reworking of the mini-games. I can't believe they still exist in the form they do. They're honestly really awful, very un-Nintendo like.

Agreed and agreed.

RE: minigames, fishing comes to mind. They can do so much more than the bobber-in-water/silhoutte-bops-into-bobber routine. They can start by changing the perspective; a first-person view or over-the-shoulder view with fishing, and actually seeing the fish in the water would work wonders. Basically, the fishing pond in Twilight Princess.

RE: MMO-style: I think this is what everyone hoped AC would've done on Wii. The dream is for everyone in the world to inhabit the same Animal Crossing world simultaneously. Towns that are truly connected, where I can step outside my neck of the woods and literally walk east to your town the next one over, and while I'm gone a bunch of dipshits from the 30 towns west of me decide to crash at my place for the night and steal all my coconuts. That's what we all dreamed of, but didn't receive.

 

[watershed]

Honestly, all they would have to do is really expand the social capabilities (add a world you can travel about it, MMO-style, with various hubs. Yours is a town that has to exist in an economy so it is beneficial for you to start a business or grow crops or become self-sufficient) and add real penalties for not performing your duties and it might begin to form into something compelling. The idea itself is not bad, the execution is. Of course I don't think it should be THE SIMS either where you gotta direct your dude to take a shit.


Also, completely reworking of the mini-games. I can't believe they still exist in the form they do. They're honestly really awful, very un-Nintendo like.

Animal Crossing is a prime example of how lazy Nintendo has gotten. Its literally the same game since the original release and that was on the N64. It would also be a game that would benefit immensely from an integrated online experience MMO style. But it looks like the next entry will be on the 3ds and be nothing more than a rehash with new textures and shading. That makes me sad.

 

[Fernando Rocker]

Super Mario Galaxy 1/2, Sin & Punishment, Super Paper Mario, Metroid Prime III, Wario Shake Dimension, Dead Space Extraction, Ghost Squad, House of the Dead Overkill, Little King's Story, Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, Fire Emblem.

I like Twilight Princess, but it's a Gamecube game.

Pretty good games... I just wanted to know you a little but better. I was a lurked since 2006, and I'm still confused about you sometimes...

I really don't know if you like or dislike Nintendo... you seem more neutral though.

 

[Electivirus]

I'm personally fine with how Animal Crossing is now, but I can see how someone else wouldn't be.

 

[ReyVGM]

I bet Amir0x has a squeaky clean ass, 'cause I see a lot of dirty mouths here hehe

 

[watershed]

I'm personally fine with how Animal Crossing is now, but I can see how someone else wouldn't be.

Its been the same for 3 games across 10 years. Nintendo should know there's a problem when their game is being outdone by free farming sims on facebook. Also I don't think city life sold very well. AC is a great IP with lots of potential. The original is charming as fuck. But the series needs to evolve.

But all this AC talk is making me sad!

 

[Amir0x]

Pretty good games... I just wanted to know you a little but better. I was a lurked since 2006, and I'm still confused about you sometimes...

I really don't know if you like or dislike Nintendo... you seem more neutral though.

Nintendo is my favorite developer in the world. over 60% of my top 25 games of all time are Nintendo games. It is just infuriating to me to see them take the detour they took with Wii. I feel it really distracted them from making the type of games they're truly great at, for the most part. I feel really only Super Mario Galaxy really lived up to the type of potential they have (I think Skyward Sword might too; we'll see).

Also, there is some associated frustration with the way they underpowered their platform (less HD also) and some associated frustration with the seeming desire to gimmick over refinement lately. And finally, yes, it's annoying that they seem so unwilling to take risks when it comes to developing new hardcore IPs with big budgets and big marketing pushes.

I hate because I love, essentially.

 

[NeonZ]

i thought it was impossible to be bad at it? I'm amazing. Shit, by the game's standards, I'm practically Tiger Woods, Babe Ruth and Pete Sampras all rolled into one.

...?

Most people I've seen attempting to play the single player modes eventually just get crushed and lose points facing the later AIs.

I don't think it's a very good game, but it's hardly something anyone can finish (Well, it has no real "ending", but I mean reaching significantly beyond the Pro line). Yes, there are some exploits in some of the games, like bowling, which makes that easier, but an average gamer won't randomly discover them.

 

[Skiesofwonder]

I just meant it in the literal sense: that you guys hold positions so far beyond my own that they're essentially incomprehensible to my mind. Thus, the only way I might get a grip on understanding those perspectives is if someone who actually likes that trash explains it with the force of their convictions. Of course, I'd like to see someone set up a good defense because...no offense...yours are always rather weak



No, that's not WHY you're a Nintendo fanboy. It's a symptom



Oh yes it does. Their gameplay is absolutely miserable compared to other masters of the genre. It's completely whitewashed garbage meant to appeal to people who hated the genre. And if you didn't hate the genre and by some insane crazy bs you liked Wii Sports still, then it actually IS beyond all rationality.

Wii Sports is literally inoffensive pap meant to appeal to people who hate sports games because they might have to, ya know, strategize or use more than two buttons. Certainly it wasn't by virtue of its gameplay - little agonizingly knee deep chunks of subpar gameplay anchored to virtually no content and wonky, unreliable motion controls.

Shit, boxing barely worked at all since if you boxed too fast the game simply stopped registering hits and since it wasn't 1:1 you could see the massive disconnect between your blows and your avatar.

Tennis was just hilariously inept compared to full fledged sports titles. Hell, inept compared to Mario Tennis.

And what charm? Mii's exist for the sole purpose of leeching any and all charm from the games. Gone are the days of legitimate Nintendo charm.

First of all, RESORT.

Second of all, you're completely missing the point of these type of games. It's like you're one of those guys watching a comedy at the movie theater complaining about the plot and Jim Carrey's character not being deep enough. Dude, watch for the funnies. It's not suppose to be deep, it's not suppose to be meaty. It's emphasis is on fun. If you're not having fun, it's not for you and you should move on.

Third of all, it's obvious to me you're never going to like/understand social/casual games. You don't even like Animal Crossing.

 

[Amir0x]

First of all, RESORT.

Second of all, you're completely missing the point of these type of games. It's like you're one of those guys watching a comedy at the movie theater complaining about the plot and Jim Carrey's character not being deep enough. Dude, watch for the funnies. It's not suppose to be deep, it's not suppose to be meaty. It's emphasis is on fun. If you're not having fun, it's not for you and you should move on.

Third of all, it's obvious to me you're never going to like/understand social/casual games. You don't even like Animal Crossing.

I don't have fun with shallow stuff. I have fun with stuff that challenges me. Why do I want handholding crap when I can play deep, rewarding titles that reward skill and perseverance over laziness with horrendous gameplay? People like to act like Wii Sports games are the antithesis of lazy because you have to move, but that's just an act. These are the laziest games I know of.

I guess I don't see why I would want that. To each their own, but, I am going to call out such games when I see them.

 

[timetokill]

Personally I loved Animal Crossing in two incarnations -- the first one because playing it with roommates was hilarious, fun, and addictive -- and the handheld version because it was perhaps the ideal platform for the game, and improved a few things.

I think the concept is sound but they have definitely avoided really moving forward with the formula. There is a ton of stuff they could do with it if they wanted to. I'm hoping it takes a rest for a while so they can revitalize it.

Hell, give it to Retro Isn't that everybody's solution for everything?

 

[Wolves Evolve]

Hell, give it to Retro Isn't that everybody's solution for everything?

I lol'd. Its quite common to hear people flip out about Retro as some kind of saviour-studio despite their record.

I second the need for some major shake-ups in the Animal Crossing formula. Its almost interesting, but its very not at the moment.

 

[Electivirus]

This reminds me that I haven't played City Folk yet. I probably won't, seeing as I prefer the series on handhelds, and the 3DS version is right around the corner.

 

[Fernando Rocker]

I lol'd. Its quite common to hear people flip out about Retro as some kind of saviour-studio despite their record.

I second the need for some major shake-ups in the Animal Crossing formula. Its almost interesting, but its very not at the moment.

Well... let's be honest here... Retro deserves all the praise it gets.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Pfft.

Only admins can give tags: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showgroups.php

That sir, was not common knowledge.

 

[watershed]

This reminds me that I haven't played City Folk yet. I probably won't, seeing as I prefer the series on handhelds, and the 3DS version is right around the corner.

The 3ds version hasn't officially been announced yet. It might make an appearance at E3 but right now its got no title or release date. Still I too would wait for it over City Folk...but then we find out that the 3DS version won't even include a city! Nintendo isn't satisfied doing the same thing over and over with AC now they've started taking away features!!!

 

[Electivirus]

The 3ds version hasn't officially been announced yet. It might make an appearance at E3 but right now its got no title or release date. Still I too would wait for it over City Folk...but then we find out that the 3DS version won't even include a city! Nintendo isn't satisfied doing the same thing over and over with AC now they've started taking away features!!!

Well, I might pick it up, depending on the scheduled release date for the 3DS version. If it ever gets announced anytime soon, anyway.

 

[rpmurphy]

I lol'd. Its quite common to hear people flip out about Retro as some kind of saviour-studio despite their record.

I second the need for some major shake-ups in the Animal Crossing formula. Its almost interesting, but its very not at the moment.

The 3DS game with players taking the role of mayor will probably add a new layer of gameplay to the series. I wonder how muh depth they're going to put into that though. It's not going to be anywhere on the scale of SimCity of course, but hopefully there will be a good amount of town management stuff to do to keep people engaged.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I fear the day an admin finally snaps at me and gives me a tag.
Yet... it excites me.

Most tags are done for things that can just as easily get you banned. Like horrific trolling.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Everyone stop talking. Let's talk about a battletoads remake.

Did you guys know that David Wise of DKC fame was also the composer for this game? Not suprising considering the gat damned amazing soundtrack.

Seriously guys why is Battletoads dead.

 

[watershed]

The 3DS game with players taking the role of mayor will probably add a new layer of gameplay to the series. I wonder how muh depth they're going to put into that though. It's not going to be anywhere on the scale of SimCity of course, but hopefully there will be a good amount of town management stuff to do to keep people engaged.

It'll be a nice addition but it probably won't add much for the game. I feel like Nintendo thinks adding ONE new feature per iteration is enough for the series and of course its really not.

Anyways, check this out. 1st a commercial for the original animal crossing in America for the gamecube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4Jm1VpJQJU&feature=related

Then one for City Folk for the Wii: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq3QPL-8bl0

yep, Nintendo finds all kinds of ways to ruin one of my favorite series.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I agree its low on the totem pole of things to modernize in Nintendo but it also doesn't seem very hard to do. Then again you wouldn't think friend invites would be very hard to get right either. But to me part of the problem is that Nintendo seemingly doesn't care. I don't want this to devolve into an argument about achievements but I do think they add more incentive to do crazy stuff or explore every nook and tranny of a stage. Also adding an integrated achievement system would help to improve their image with the core gaming community. Now I have to believe Nintendo is interested in doing that.

Now we all know what's on your mind.....

 

[Skiesofwonder]

I don't have fun with shallow stuff. I have fun with stuff that challenges me. Why do I want handholding crap when I can play deep, rewarding titles that reward skill and perseverance over laziness with horrendous gameplay? People like to act like Wii Sports games are the antithesis of lazy because you have to move, but that's just an act. These are the laziest games I know of.

I guess I don't see why I would want that. To each their own, but, I am going to call out such games when I see them.

Remember that they are a tech demos that come with the system/with a controller for ten extra bucks (besides Wii Music). And the game isn't suppose to challenge YOU. You are suppose to challenge yourself, or a friend is. It's all about simple gameplay that can be played by anybody, but mastered by practice and sweat (literally).

Also Amir0x, please try to get all the stamps in Resort. I seriously doubt you can without being "challenged".

 

[Amir0x]

good night all. I liked Battletoads back in the day but damn those fucking hoverbike levels

And the game isn't suppose to challenge YOU. You are suppose to challenge yourself, or a friend is.

What does this even mean? Sounds like you're reading off a Nintendo key point marketing sheet or some shit. Back away from the kool-aid dude.

A game should challenge me. I don't invent challenges from fairytale land. If a game is too shallow to be compelling I don't want to play it. That goes for Wii Sports Resort as well, which seemed no different at all. It just had more of the shallow gameplay since there were many more sports included.

There are too many good games out there for me to waste any time praising the awful ones. Shit, Nintendo themselves has a fucking plethora of quality titles that mean I don't even have to suffer the bad ones they make. Hell, they have way better SPORTS games in their lineup. Shit, Mario Golf is better than Wii Sports and Wii Sports Resort combined. Mario Golf GBA is better than them.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

good night all. I liked Battletoads back in the day but damn those fucking hoverbike levels

You really gotta go back and play it sometime if you have time. There are some really cool levels after the bikes (I've only gotten to like level 8 out of 12, though).

adios

 

[watershed]

Now we all know what's on your mind.....

Lol, damn you got me there!

 

[From The Dust]

Now we all know what's on your mind.....

penis penis penis chicks with penises

 

[Skiesofwonder]

good night all. I liked Battletoads back in the day but damn those fucking hoverbike levels

Night night.

Now that Amir0x is gone [] we should talk about how awesome Pikimin's multiplayer would be with four players.... all playing on separate screens. No one could peak a your screen anymore.

:0

 

[HisshouBuraiKen]

Everyone stop talking. Let's talk about a battletoads remake.

Did you guys know that David Wise of DKC fame was also the composer for this game? Not suprising considering the gat damned amazing soundtrack.

Seriously guys why is Battletoads dead.

The entire NES GENRE that was "Insanely difficult with brutal physics coupled with tight control schemes and excellent hit detection so you can really only be mad at the game for being legitimately difficult" seems to be dead.

See also Ninja Gaiden, etc.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

penis penis penis chicks with penises

Dudes with tits.

 

[rpmurphy]

It'll be a nice addition but it probably won't add much for the game. I feel like Nintendo thinks adding ONE new feature per iteration is enough for the series and of course its really not.

Anyways, check this out. 1st a commercial for the original animal crossing in America for the gamecube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4Jm1VpJQJU&feature=related

Then one for City Folk for the Wii: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq3QPL-8bl0

yep, Nintendo finds all kinds of ways to ruin one of my favorite series.

Yeah, they could also improve network stuff like the town visiting. Nintendo talking about WC24 at the time got me excited that maybe we could drop in on a friend's town even when they're offline, or have two towns be connected by a physical path and you could like see a map of all the connecting towns and go on a roadtrip. I have a feeling though that with a handheld version, they're not going to improve that aspect much, just more like StreetPass communication. The next console AC though should hopefully be more exciting for this stuff if Nintendo does beef up their online social gaming.

 

[watershed]

Yeah, they could also improve network stuff like the town visiting. Nintendo talking about WC24 at the time got me excited that maybe we could drop in on a friend's town even when they're offline, or have two towns be connected by a physical path and you could like see a map of all the connecting towns and go on a roadtrip. I have a feeling though that with a handheld version, they're not going to improve that aspect much, just more like StreetPass communication. The next console AC though should hopefully be more exciting for this stuff if Nintendo does beef up their online social gaming.

Given how Nintendo have treated AC since its initial success I am not confident about any significant additions or improvements to the series. I think they just want it to be a moderately successful cash cow forever. Honestly while the ds outing was good because it was portable it still wasn't very fresh. We all have great, realistic, simple ideas on how to make the series better but they will never come to light. As an AC fan I feel I have to force myself to stop caring about the series.

Edit: also anything about Nintendo and online equals disaster. Don't believe the hype about the cafe, they said the same stuff about the 3ds and look how that's turned out. I know its still early but it also isn't promising.

 

[From The Dust]

Dudes with tits.

how about dick tits?

Nintendo Online....since I'm not a big online user, all I want is DLC, random matchmaker, and friendslists. we got the first two and the third seems to be coming

 

[Chet Rippo]

penis penis penis chicks with penises

Let's not go down that road again.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

The entire NES GENRE that was "Insanely difficult with brutal physics coupled with tight control schemes and excellent hit detection so you can really only be mad at the game for being legitimately difficult" seems to be dead.

See also Ninja Gaiden, etc.

Ninja Gaiden is a great game, just started playing it this year in fact. The only issue I have is the respawning enemies offscreen but that seemed to be an issue with a lot of games back then.

Super Meat Boy gives off that vibe, though, as does Bit Trip Runner. Both of those have infinite lives which takes away from the FUUUUUUUUUUUUUuu factor, but that's not entirely a bad thing.

 

[From The Dust]

The entire NES GENRE that was "Insanely difficult with brutal physics coupled with tight control schemes and excellent hit detection so you can really only be mad at the game for being legitimately difficult" seems to be dead.

See also Ninja Gaiden, etc.

well there is Sin and Punishment 2. and I'm being punished

Let's not go down that road again.

for some reason, GAF has kept the topic on my mind all week :lol

 

[rpmurphy]

Given how Nintendo have treated AC since its initial success I am not confident about any significant additions or improvements to the series. I think they just want it to be a moderately successful cash cow forever. Honestly while the ds outing was good because it was portable it still wasn't very fresh. We all have great, realistic, simple ideas on how to make the series better but they will never come to light. As an AC fan I feel I have to force myself to stop caring about the series.

Edit: also anything about Nintendo and online equals disaster. Don't believe the hype about the cafe, they said the same stuff about the 3ds and look how that's turned out. I know its still early but it also isn't promising.

I'm cautiously optimistic on the online. Nintendo isn't alien to understanding the basic appeal since they have always done a great job on for the local scene, so it's just my guess that it will be inevitable that they will "get" online. Just a matter of time.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

how about dick tits?

The end point is shitting dick nipples. Lets just leave it at that.

 

[Electivirus]

I've never been much of an online/multiplayer person, so I do hope that the online has improved. Maybe it can actually get me interested.

 

[From The Dust]

The end point is shitting dick nipples. Lets just leave it at that.

the rabbit hole goes much, MUCH deeper

I'm cautiously optimistic on the online. Nintendo isn't alien to understanding the basic appeal since they have always done a great job on for the local scene, so it's just my guess that it will be inevitable that they will "get" online. Just a matter of time.

Nintendo has mentioned working with an outside partner for the online arean (hopefully not gamespy). they said we should see those collaborations (and the others he mentioned) at E3

 

[dacuk]

Most tags are done for things that can just as easily get you banned. Like horrific trolling.

Tags are overrated. Some of the better GAFfers (in relation to opinion, knowledge and just general niceness) do not have a tag. Tags only help you to remember whom to put on your ignore list.

 

[rpmurphy]

Nintendo has mentioned working with an outside partner for the online arean (hopefully not gamespy). they said we should see those collaborations (and the others he mentioned) at E3

Yeah I know, but I'm not sure whether that is indicative of Nintendo understanding online, because most of their lackings in this area are because of user-unfriendly design choices. It seems to me that for the last several years, it has been their understanding that the online scene should mimic a sterile version of the real world -- if you don't know each other, then keep exchanges at just the utilitarian level, on a per-session-basis, and don't even attempt to get to know each other. They even shut down their official fan forum, which was the closest thing they ever gotten to an online community. Even if they outsource the implementation of the new console online service, they're still going to lay out various design requirements. So the question is still there whether they really "get" online communities.

 

[watershed]

Yeah I know, but I'm not sure whether that is indicative of Nintendo understanding online, because most of their lackings in this area are because of user-unfriendly design choices. It seems to me that for the last several years, it has been their understanding that the online scene should mimic a sterile version of the real world -- if you don't know each other, then keep exchanges at just the utilitarian level, on a per-session-basis, and don't even attempt to get to know each other. They even shut down their official fan forum, which was the closest thing they ever gotten to an online community. Even if they outsource the implementation of the new console online service, they're still going to lay out various design requirements. So the question is still there whether they really "get" online communities.

I am always pessimistic about Nintendo's online efforts but I hope they prove me wrong. Working with an outside company should help with the technical side, because Nintendo's online, besides being "user-unfriendly" in design is also full of lag and other technical issues. But in terms of stuff like friend codes and lack of community building, I see that as a result of how Nintendo views the online space, VERY VERY DANGEROUS FOR KIDZ! I would be very surprised if this changes.

Also people forget that in the quote where Iwata talks about working with outside companies for online he also mentions the 3ds along with the wii successor

Although we have already put ourselves back on track, we would like to clearly differentiate what is our true strength from what we can basically do by ourselves but can be done better by more skillful outside specialists in order not to fall into that trap again. You may be aware of some features which I am implying now in relation to the future developments of Nintendo 3DS and Wii's successor system that we announced yesterday. I am sorry I cannot say anything more specific today.

So I think he's talking more about getting help with the eShop, AT&T partnership, Netflix, and features like that. Not so much a completely new approach or philosophy just outside expertise for technical stuff and some services Nintendo does not offer.

 

[evangd007]

I am always pessimistic about Nintendo's online efforts but I hope they prove me wrong. Working with an outside company should help with the technical side, because Nintendo's online, besides being "user-unfriendly" in design is also full of lag and other technical issues. But in terms of stuff like friend codes and lack of community building, I see that as a result of how Nintendo views the online space, VERY VERY DANGEROUS FOR KIDZ! I would be very surprised if this changes.

I wouldn't be very surprised if this changes. The internet in 2006 was a scary place to parents. They were told that the only people on the internet were nerds, kids, and pedos trying to get their kids. With everybody and their mom, quite literally, on stuff like facebook, youtube, and twitter nowadays, those fears about the dark digital world are gone now.

Also people forget that in the quote where Iwata talks about working with outside companies for online he also mentions the 3ds along with the wii successor

So I think he's talking more about getting help with the eShop, AT&T partnership, Netflix, and features like that. Not so much a completely new approach or philosophy just outside expertise for technical stuff and some services Nintendo does not offer.

Iwata also shilled the hell out of Xbox Live, among other things, in his GDC keynote.

 

[Pre]

Given how Nintendo have treated AC since its initial success I am not confident about any significant additions or improvements to the series. I think they just want it to be a moderately successful cash cow forever. Honestly while the ds outing was good because it was portable it still wasn't very fresh. We all have great, realistic, simple ideas on how to make the series better but they will never come to light. As an AC fan I feel I have to force myself to stop caring about the series.

Edit: also anything about Nintendo and online equals disaster. Don't believe the hype about the cafe, they said the same stuff about the 3ds and look how that's turned out. I know its still early but it also isn't promising.

I bought City Life and few months back and I'm still playing it on a regular basis. Sure, it's basically the same game as the GCN entry, but I enjoy being able to go online and visit friends' villages and while there weren't any new ideas the game still holds up well.

I'd agree that Nintendo needs to up the ante with the next console release, though.

 

[Chet Rippo]

for some reason, GAF has kept the topic on my mind all week :lol

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=404493&page=33

 

[Kyzer]

Amir0x. While I agree with your disdain for the casualtard trend that Nintendo strayed off into, I think its a safe bet that it was just temporary. Remember the entirety of the "Blue Ocean" strategy. It was to pull them in. Turn them into gamers. Now their next step is to "blur the line between casual and hardcore", if they're to be believed.

MY OPINION:

N6 does in fact only support up to 1080i, but it will not connect to a TV at all, only stream to the controllers, and it will be glorious, in all its haptic glory.

 

[neoanarch]

Enough with the speculation. 31 days left. Magazines should be getting an early look at some stuffto make print deadlines. Who spills info first?

 

[Man God]

Enough with the speculation. 31 days left. Magazines should be getting an early look at some stuffto make print deadlines. Who spills info first?

That's assuming Nintendo gives a damn about the printed word media anymore.

This is not to say that someone isn't out there giving juicy details. BC with Wii controllers, 8GB internal flash, the touchscreen in the new controller with plenty of buttons, the cafe name found on the internet, and so forth.

 

[Celine]

That's assuming Nintendo gives a damn about the printed word media anymore.

I don't think Nintendo gives a damn about gaming media in general.
Probably Nikkei will have the first "full details" as they always do.