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[Lupin the Third]

The ratio wasn't the same, but I honestly wonder what people think Nintendo could do about that?

Don't get me wrong. The obvious way to improve the ratio is to have more good games, not less bad games, but that clearly isn't a situation that the Wii was going to find itself in. Third parties abandoned that system in a huge way, but I've seen angry forumers and podcasters and general rantings that insist Nintendo should not have let so much crap hit the shelves.

The reasoning was, I believe, that Nintendo should bring back the Nintendo seal of quality and leverage that to prevent things like, say, Imagine Horsez from being released for their systems. As if preventing Ubisoft from releasing their shovelware titles will make them realize, It's A Wonderful Life-style, that they should actually be making Prince of Persia on the Wii as their lead SKU and stop releasing low-budget, high-yield children's games.

The more likely situation is that they just wouldn't put games on the Wii at all.

Which I feel like most people here would probably prefer, as a good average is apparently better than the alternative, I think it would likely sink any chance Nintendo has at ever releasing other systems and getting decent third party efforts.

Thank you, sir, for being reasonable.

 

[BGBW]

The reasoning was, I believe, that Nintendo should bring back the Nintendo seal of quality and leverage that to prevent things

No idea where people got the idea that the Seal of Quality was anything but an indicator that the game was in working order. Maybe that's the secret behind why third parties didn't want to release games on Wii; they didn't want to bother with QA and not having the ability to patch their games from game breaking day one bugs.

 

[Father_Brain]

Yeah, I'm not quite sure if Nintendo could have done anything else with the Wii other than work with third parties earlier and more often in its life cycle, a la MH3.

Anyone who says Nintendo should have been monitoring the quality of the games released for the Wii is just delusional.

True, though even attempting to work more closely with third parties could only have done so much. Particularly with Western publishers and developers, Wii's fate was sealed as soon as Nintendo decided to go with last-gen specs.

With Cafe, they seem to be trying to make a console that Western developers will actually want to support, but that effort raises the dual questions of exactly how they intend to lure the PS3/360 multiplatform audience over to Cafe, and whether they've forgotten the lessons of Wii's success in the process. At least four and a half weeks isn't that much longer...

 

[From The Dust]

remember the last time Nintendo limited what games could be made? do the same thing now, and third parties won't even go your platform. they would be against it on principle.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

No idea where people got the idea that the Seal of Quality was anything but an indicator that the game was in working order. Maybe that's the secret behind why third parties didn't want to release games on Wii; they didn't want to bother with QA and not having the ability to patch their games from game breaking day one bugs.

No, it totally was Nintendo leveraging their weight in the NES era. After a while, it was only a "This game has been QA certified!" sticker, but it was once the name Nintendo gave their game quality control policies.

There were times that, in order to have a game licensed, publishers had to have Miyamoto or someone at Nintendo look over it and make changes.

 

[BGBW]

remember the last time Nintendo limited what games could be made? do the same thing now, and third parties won't even go your platform. they would be against it on principle.

Well they could make an exception for UbiSoft. I don't think anyone would be upset if UbiSoft's output was limited.

 

[JGS]

High end gear will hinder shovelware automatically (If not bad games).

Annubis II will not be ported to Cafe anytime soon based on assumed spec requirements. they'll stick to the Wii and it's buyers won't really mind. Wii was an extremely inexpensive platform to work off of- from the kits to the programming.

The downside of Cafe is it will be as expensive at least to develop for it, so hopefully companies will be selctive in the actual crap that gets out there in the marketing wild.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Well the Wii can have as many shit games as it wants, the ratio doesn't matter.

For quality games, the Wii has weak numbers from a this gen and all-time standpoint, unlike the PS2.

The seal of quality won't do it. This gen is lost, but there is hope in the WiiHD.

 

[From The Dust]

Well they could make an exception for UbiSoft. I don't think anyone would be upset if UbiSoft's output was limited.

then Nintendo has to tackle the issue of favoritism. Acti, EA, and Ubi gets to do whatever they want, but others get limited? now you will hear even more stories about Nintendo not reaching out to third parties.

it's too much trouble to go though and will ultimately hurt relations worse than what Nnintendo does now

 

[Smiles and Cries]

remember the last time Nintendo limited what games could be made? do the same thing now, and third parties won't even go your platform. they would be against it on principle.

those days are long gone, they don't have that kind of clout with 3rd parties anymore
tnat would be suicide for them to do, not even Sony could pull crap like that these days

even publishers of crap like Ubisoft have some top IPs that Nintendo would still want to beg for on a new HD system.
So you have to accept the cash in shovelware if it means you don't get left out of a major port or exclusive.

 

[VisanidethDM]

The ratio wasn't the same, but I honestly wonder what people think Nintendo could do about that?

Don't get me wrong. The obvious way to improve the ratio is to have more good games, not less bad games, but that clearly isn't a situation that the Wii was going to find itself in. Third parties abandoned that system in a huge way, but I've seen angry forumers and podcasters and general rantings that insist Nintendo should not have let so much crap hit the shelves.

The reasoning was, I believe, that Nintendo should bring back the Nintendo seal of quality and leverage that to prevent things like, say, Imagine Horsez from being released for their systems. As if preventing Ubisoft from releasing their shovelware titles will make them realize, It's A Wonderful Life-style, that they should actually be making Prince of Persia on the Wii as their lead SKU and stop releasing low-budget, high-yield children's games.

The more likely situation is that they just wouldn't put games on the Wii at all.

Which I feel like most people here would probably prefer, as a good average is apparently better than the alternative, I think it would likely sink any chance Nintendo has at ever releasing other systems and getting decent third party efforts.

I think that if Nintendo has blame in the quality of the software, it's in terms of how they designed and marketed the consoles.

In the end, creating games is an exercise in creativity. And the Wii being the kind of machine it was certainly turned down a lot of third party developers (expecially in terms of quality exclusive) because creative work, when done right, is ultimately an act of passion, and having to work on a machine that is fundamentally the same as what you've used for the last 6-7 years instead of having more powerful tools at your fingertips is frustrating.

The Wii made sense from a corporate perspective (and in fact sold like hotcakes), but I can absolutely imagine every third party developer (the actual guys making the games, not the moneyhatters) dreading the idea of having to go and fight an outdated hardware instead of racing the rest of the industry at the top end of the spectrum.

 

[Man God]

those days are long gone, they don't have that kind of clout with 3rd parties anymore
tnat would be suicide for them to do, not even Sony could pull crap like that these days

even publishers of crap like Ubisoft have some top IPs that Nintendo would still want to beg for on a new HD system.
So you have to accept the cash in shovelware if it means you don't get left out of a major port or exclusive.

Sony does actually still pull that crap when it comes to 2D ports. Needs to have new shit or it won't fly. Luckily these days they do have a decent enough program for releasing back catalog titles via PSN.

 

[BGBW]

then Nintendo has to tackle the issue of favoritism. Acti, EA, and Ubi gets to do whatever they want, but others get limited? now you will hear even more stories about Nintendo not reaching out to third parties.

Well I was actually implying the opposite and that UbiSoft would be the one that is limited. But anywho it was just a little joke.

Guess I should be thankful that UbiSoft kept giving their support even if only a fraction of their Wii output could be argued was aimed at moi.

 

[blu]

In the end, creating games is an exercise in creativity. And the Wii being the kind of machine it was certainly turned down a lot of third party developers (expecially in terms of quality exclusive) because creative work, when done right, is ultimately an act of passion, and having to work on a machine that is fundamentally the same as what you've used for the last 6-7 years instead of having more powerful tools at your fingertips is frustrating.

That entirely explains how some of the most creative games this gen came out on the wii.

Being creative =/= working on a new architecture/pipeline every 5-or-so years. And those more powerful tools mostly run on workstations. Those omnipresent GI maps you see in contemporary games, they were not computed on the target consoles. Surely some middleware never got anywhere near the wii (e.g. UE3), but there were other contemporary production pipelines that supported the wii.

Speaking of UE3, you can ask Silicon Knights how much they liked those 'more powerful tools at their fingertips' at the start of this gen.

 

[evangd007]

No idea where people got the idea that the Seal of Quality was anything but an indicator that the game was in working order. Maybe that's the secret behind why third parties didn't want to release games on Wii; they didn't want to bother with QA and not having the ability to patch their games from game breaking day one bugs.

Nintendo would only give out a grand total of five Seals of Quality to a third party publisher a year. They'd better make sure the game was decent as it was 20% of their yearly lineup on the NES. This was actually where a lot of the ire from third parties comes from: way back when they were assholes about licensing games for production on their console.

 

[VisanidethDM]

That entirely explains how some of the most creative games this gen came out on the wii.

Being creative =/= working on a new architecture/pipeline every 5-or-so years. And those more powerful tools mostly run on workstations. Those omnipresent GI maps you see in contemporary games, they were not computed on the target consoles. Surely some middleware never got anywhere near the wii (e.g. UE3), but there were other contemporary production pipelines that supported the wii.

Speaking of UE3, you can ask Silicon Knights how much they liked those 'more powerful tools at their fingertips' at the start of this gen.

Name a few of these 3rd party examples.

If your point is that people who could not choose to work on anything else but the Wii released some pretty amazing games on it, then it's perfectly compatible with mine.

 

[From The Dust]

Well I was actually implying the opposite and that UbiSoft would be the one that is limited. But anywho it was just a little joke.

Guess I should be thankful that UbiSoft kept giving their support even if only a fraction of their Wii output could be argued was aimed at moi.

as bad as their support was, Nintendo needs them. I can only hope that the Cafe will see 360/PS3/PC-like support from them. ah fuck it, it's Ubisoft. I should keep my expectations rock bottom

 

[Man God]

Name a few of these 3rd party examples.

If your point is that people who could not choose to work on anything else but the Wii released some pretty amazing games on it, then it's perfectly compatible with mine.

Considering I've spent the last hour or so doing nothing but Wii lists...

No More Heroes, Little King's Story, PES (entirely on the strength of its controls) are all third party games which really showed off what the Wii could do. Only LKS would be roughly the same on the other consoles (or NMH with move; the "Classic Controls" make the game flat)

 

[Penguin]

Well they could make an exception for UbiSoft. I don't think anyone would be upset if UbiSoft's output was limited.

That would have been a pretty big blow as Rabbids is one of the best selling franchises on the Wii, and let's not forget Just Dance has been keeping it afloat for a few months now.

And as a whole, you would hurt future relations with the developer. And while their Wii output was questionable, they have a ton of big guns in their arsenal that I'm sure Nintendo and its fans would love to see some day.

 

[Metallix]

Here's my detailed idea for the online hub:

First up, is my idea for Nintendo's own “Achievement” system: Coins. You earn Coins by playing your video games and completing specific tasks unique to each game, just like you would earn Achievements on Xbox 360 and Trophies on PlayStation 3. Now, the hook is that, unlike those particular rewards, the Coins have a specific use outside of being able to show off. What is the secondary purpose? I call it the Café Coins. Before I can explain what they are, though, I need to discuss my other idea for the system.

The second idea is one I'm referring to as Mii Resort. Essentially, it's a virtual hub world where you control your Mii, and can explore the entire Wuhu Island (as seen in Pilotwings: Resort and Wii Sports: Resort). Wuhu Island will offer a variety of diversions for players to enjoy, ranging from single-player experiences to fun multiplayer diversions. For starters, every user will have access to two multiplayer games, right off the bat: Table Tennis and Bowling. Both of these are enhanced versions of the mini-games found on previous gen Wii Sports titles, modified to allow online multiplayer gaming and also sporting even more refined motion controls. How do you access these games, you ask? Simple!

You start off on Wuhu Island inside the Mii Resort itself, in your own private Cabana, which you can personalize later on. Once you exit your Cabana, you can explore the island, including the huge Mii City. The majority of the content in this virtual world can be accessed here. The city features many different shops, activities, and even arcades, which you can walk to and enjoy. Your free sports games are accessed from the specific Activity Centers. Simply walk into the specific Activity Center for the game you wish to play, and you will be granted your own unique instance of the game. From there, you can invite any friends who are online to come play or to even spectate a match. Your friends don't even have to have access to the specific game you wish to play! Only one player needs access to an activity in order to have all friends enjoy a multiplayer experience.

A question you may be asking yourself is “Alright, well, we start with two activities available right away, but how do we get more? Do I have to purchase them online with a credit card?” Great question! The answer is no, you don't need a credit card to access any content. Everything can be unlocked by the idea I mentioned earlier: Café Coins! Now, what are they? Well, simply put, whenever you earn standard Coins while playing a game, you also earn an equal number of Café Coins. You can then use the Café Coins at shops on Wuhu Island to purchase hats for your Mii, decorations for your Cabana, and, most importantly, gain access to brand new Activity Centers!

You may be wondering what other types of activities will be available. For starters, a new one that would likely be a big hit is Duck Hunt. Based on the classic Nintendo Entertainment System title of the same title, you use the Wii Remote Plus as a light gun and shoot down virtual ducks for points. The game would support up to two players, and bring back the annoying dog from the classic game for nostalgia's sake. There will be other activities, including more based on classic NES titles and more enhanced Wii Sports games, available at launch, and more Activity Centers would be added via download moving forward.

What else could Wuhu Island offer? Well, one neat possibility is the idea of adjacent “mini-islands”, which belong to third party developers, like Capcom and Activision. These mini-islands, which you access via the ferry that circles the island, allow third-party developers to offer unique Cabana content, unique Mii hats, unique Activity Centers, and more, based on their own intellectual properties. For instance, if you go to the Activision Island, you could purchase a Modern Warfare combat helm for your Mii, perhaps buy some Call of Duty memorabilia for your Cabana, and maybe even purchase access with your Café Coins to an on-rails shooting activity loosely based on the zombie mode from the Call of Duty games. The possibilities are endless, and offer third parties a means to entice gamers to keep playing their games longer in the hopes of getting more Coins to gain access to pricier content. Islands can be constantly updated, of course, so the themes and games on the island can always represent the latest releases, as well as future releases.

Back on Wuhu Island, though, there's a big hot spot for gamers to enjoy a look back at the golden age of games: The Cafécade! What is it? It's an arcade where you can play old Atari 2600, Intellivision, Colecovision, and Arcade games, for the reasonable price of two Café Coins per try. High scores and personal progress are logged online, so you can compete with friends and strangers for high scores.

Speaking of people, though, you won't be roaming the streets of Mii City alone! Random Miis will appear throughout the city, each saying their personal greeting, and you can also meet up with Miis from your Friend List. Voice chat is offered for Friends.

Lastly, there's one final aspect of Mii Resort mode that will make visiting Wuhu Island and exploring it a real treat: Hidden Games! Around the island, usually in more remote locations, you may come upon hidden games, which you can play for free, and offer an opportunity to earn rare hats and decorations. One example of these hidden games is Star Tropics: Resort! Somewhere on Wuhu Island, you'll find Mike Jones, the hero from the classic NES games Star Tropics and Star Tropics 2: Zoda's Revenge. He'll allow you to jump into single-player dungeons where you'll be able to defeat enemies and explore various rooms in search of treasure. The gameplay in these dungeons remains relatively true to the classic Star Tropics games, though you'll be playing as your Mii instead of the original hero, Mike. What other hidden games will you find on Wuhu Island?

 

[blu]

Name a few of these 3rd party examples.

Zack and Wiki - a game that could not have been done on any other platform this gen (before ms and sony followed suit with motion controls). Actually, game was ahead of its time, as it could have been amazing with some motion+ tech. Game singlehandedly resurrected my long-forgotten passion for 'quests' - the story-driven point-n-click puzzle genre that flourished on home computers two decades ago.

Lost Winds series - a classic 2d metroidvania transformed into a unique experience thanks to polished pointer/motion controls and spotless presentation. Frontier created some amazing in-house tech for that. In the same line of innovation comes..

NyxQuest: Kindred Spirits - similar genre to the above, but less exploratory and more linear puzzle-by-puzzle based progression. Again, spotless presentation, great use of pointer controls.

Boomblox series - a physics-sim sandbox, which, combined with spot-on motion/pointer controls creates some unique experiences. A genre first started on the wii by..

Elebits - the patriarch of motion-based physics sandboxes.

Bit.trip series - the resurrection of '80s arcades with modern-day tech and fresh gameplay ideas.

I could carry on, but I see no point. I think that you just don't know the platform you're trying to pass hard judgement about.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Like I said, Aerobie shaped discs.

An Ori battlecruiser?

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

Here's my detailed idea for the online hub:

Back on Wuhu Island, though, there's a big hot spot for gamers to enjoy a look back at the golden age of games: The Cafécade! What is it? It's an arcade where you can play old Atari 2600, Intellivision, Colecovision, and Arcade games, for the reasonable price of two Café Coins per try. High scores and personal progress are logged online, so you can compete with friends and strangers for high scores.

That sounds pretty good and sort of a blend of Miis, Home & Animal Crossing. BUt I would make one suggestion to your "Cafécade". It should be populated by the VC games you purchase through the eShop, but if you haven't bought the game, then they can do a few coins per play. Just like that MS Arcade thing.

 

[VisanidethDM]

Zack and Wiki - a game that could not have been done on any other platform this gen (before ms and sony followed suit with motion controls). Actually, game was ahead of its time, as it could have been amazing with some motion+ tech. Game singlehandedly resurrected my long-forgotten passion for 'quests' - the story-driven point-n-click puzzle genre that flourished on home computers two decades ago.

Lost Winds series - a classic 2d metroidvania transformed into a unique experience thanks to polished pointer/motion controls and spotless presentation. Frontier created some amazing in-house tech for that. In the same line of innovation comes..

NyxQuest: Kindred Spirits - similar genre to the above, but less exploratory and more linear puzzle-by-puzzle based progression. Again, spotless presentation, great use of pointer controls.

Boomblox series - a physics-sim sandbox, which, combined with spot-on motion/pointer controls creates some unique experiences. A genre first started on the wii by..

Elebits - the patriarch of motion-based physics sandboxes.

Bit.trip series - the resurrection of '80s arcades with modern-day tech and fresh gameplay ideas.

I could carry on, but I see no point. I think that you just don't know the platform you're trying to pass hard judgement about.

I admit I don't know even where to begin, with an answer like this. Your answer is... WiiWare?

Do you think that if these people had the budget to attempt an HD console project, they wouldn't?

 

[Metallix]

That sounds pretty good and sort of a blend of Miis, Home & Animal Crossing. BUt I would make one suggestion to your "Cafécade". It should be populated by the VC games you purchase through the eShop, but if you haven't bought the game, then they can do a few coins per play. Just like that MS Arcade thing.

That does make a lot of sense. What about WiiWare, though?

 

[blu]

I admit I don't know even where to begin, with an answer like this. Your answer is... WiiWare?

Do you think that if these people had the budget to attempt an HD console project, they wouldn't?

I don't know whether I should waste any more time trying to educate you. Actually, I do.

 

[ReyVGM]

I just had the feeling Microsoft would make some kind of new console announcement at this E3 just to steal Nintendo's thunder.

Granted, they have nothing to show yet, but you can be sure they are going to make a surprise announcement and bloat about the new console's (unfinished) specs just to end up above whatever Nintendo does.

 

[watershed]

Here's my detailed idea for the online hub:

your idea sounds great but I don't think Nintendo will do something that involved, complicated, integrated, or interesting. The best we can hope for is some new version of mii plaza/mii parade with miis acting as gamer profiles and maybe serving as a friend invite system as well as an online hub. Don't get me wrong I love your idea and it would be a great Nintendo take on having an online community but it seems way too advanced for Nintendo.

 

[verdures]

I admit I don't know even where to begin, with an answer like this. Your answer is... WiiWare?

Do you think that if these people had the budget to attempt an HD console project, they wouldn't?

An example: Gaijin Games started the Bit.Trip series on WiiWare because the game idea they had fit with the unique capabilities of the controller. They've been really successful- was it a mistake for them?

Do you really believe every developer in America would rather make God of War 3 or something instead of pursuing their ideas on a platform they think will be appropriate?

 

[watershed]

I just had the feeling Microsoft would make some kind of new console announcement at this E3 just to steal Nintendo's thunder.

Granted, they have nothing to show yet, but you can be sure they are going to make a surprise announcement and bloat about the new console's (unfinished) specs just to end up above whatever Nintendo does.

Are you talking about the rumor that the next xbox will be revealed at E3? I don't buy it, I think the most we'll get if at all is a tease in the form of a video showing a slowly spinning console in the dark that can barely be made out with a teaser tag of some sort. Something like this but even less: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3Q58MEEomI
That rumor just screams fake to me for some reason.

 

[GameplayWhore]

That would have been a pretty big blow as Rabbids is one of the best selling franchises on the Wii, and let's not forget Just Dance has been keeping it afloat for a few months now.

Total non-sequitur, but it strikes me that screen on a controller that also happens to have accelerometers would be much more fitting for that "inside the controller" bit they had in one of their games.

 

[ksamedi]

I admit I don't know even where to begin, with an answer like this. Your answer is... WiiWare?

Do you think that if these people had the budget to attempt an HD console project, they wouldn't?

Zack and Wiki isn't Wiiware, Red Steel isn't Wiiware, Just Dance isn't Wiiware, Madworld isn't Wiiware, epic Mickey isn't Wiiware and loads of other third partie stuff isn't Wiiware.

Why try to make an argument about what devs want to develop. Some devs will want to develop graphics heavy games, others will want to focus on unique gameplay aspects. Why is it so hard for you to grasp such a simple concept?

 

[VisanidethDM]

An example: Gaijin Games started the Bit.Trip series on WiiWare because the game idea they had fit with the unique capabilities of the controller. They've been really successful- was it a mistake for them?

Do you really believe every developer in America would rather make God of War 3 or something instead of pursuing their ideas on a platform they think will be appropriate?

Absolutely not. But notice I didn't say every, I didn't say nobody, I said it's harder to motivate people to put their efforts on outdated hardware.

If instead of reacting like I said the Wii stifles creativity and software releasing on it will be necessary limited people would focus on my actual point, which is that the vast majority of the creative teams in the world, the Bethesdas, the Cryteks, the Biowares, the FROMSoftwares, the Epics, basically every "big" group in the market doesn't want to touch the Wii with a pole.

It's a console with a colossal fanbase and huge underserved markets for hardcore games. Sure, there's (expecially now that the console sort of faded into obscurity) plenty of commercial reasons, but what I'm trying to say is... go to the guys making Skyrim and tell them: your next game is on the Wii. You're gonna spend the next 36 months working on last gen hardware.

It's a factor, and the videogame market isn't just run by moneyhats. Sure, there will be people with a vision developing excellent games on Wii, and there will be people with a vision developing games that can only happen on the Wii, but I promise you that any studio with a budget of considerable size that is going through the brainstorming and planning phase will almost always look at the most powerful harder first.

Which is sort of the point: you may have a vision of a game that requires the Wii characteristics to work. You'll plan, create and release that game on the Wii, naturally. But if you have a vision of a game that doesn't require motion controls, you'll never, ever plan it on a technologically inferior console.

I hope my statement is clear now. When moving from idea to project, and having to motivate and inspire (and being inspired by) a team of 50+ people, proposing the weakest hardware as your platform will very, very, very rarely be met positively by the creative team.
Which doesn't mean you can't have creative or good games on the Wii; simply that unless a game does require motion controls, if able to chose, the creators will never choose the Wii as a platform.

 

[VisanidethDM]

Zack and Wiki isn't Wiiware, Red Steel isn't Wiiware, Just Dance isn't Wiiware, Madworld isn't Wiiware, epic Mickey isn't Wiiware and loads of other third partie stuff isn't Wiiware.

Why try to make an argument about what devs want to develop. Some devs will want to develop graphics heavy games, others will want to focus on unique gameplay aspects. Why is it so hard for you to grasp such a simple concept?

As above. Unless your vision for the game includes motion control, you'll never want to touch the Wii with a pole. It's hard enough to struggle with PS360 limitations when your competitors are pushing the boundaries on PC. Unless motion controls are integral to the vision behind your game, putting it on the Wii means compromising that vision. Simple as, and creative people will not be happy about that.

Incidentally, Zack and Wiki is excellent, Mad World would have worked better with traditional controls (or at least equivalently), and the rest of your list is not what I would call quality software.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Wuhu Island as the online hub is a dream that will never come true. Cool ideas though.

 

[ksamedi]

As above. Unless your vision for the game includes motion control, you'll never want to touch the Wii with a pole. It's hard enough to struggle with PS360 limitations when your competitors are pushing the boundaries on PC. Unless motion controls are integral to the vision behind your game, putting it on the Wii means compromising that vision. Simple as, and creative people will not be happy about that.

Incidentally, Zack and Wiki is excellent, Mad World would have worked better with traditional controls (or at least equivalently), and the rest of your list is not what I would call quality software.

So you're saying if there is a choice for 2 platforms with the same input device and same install base, devs would rather work on the more powerful console. Well, thats not completely true. Developers want to surprise consumers. So if there is a certain genre missing in one of the 2 consoles, they could make the decision to fill that gap. There is also the issue of cost. If a developer doesn't have a huge budget, they will create stuff for the weaker console. Ease of development could also be a factor.

On the other hand, a dev that excels in graphics technologies would always rather work on powerful hardware even if it is a huge risk because that is there way to surprise consumers. In short, there are many factors that determine for which console a developer wants to develop. It isn't as black or white as you paint it out to be.

In a world where devs have infinite money and resources, you might be right. but in reality, devs are lead by by company culture and economic factors.

 

[Morokh]

Wuhu Island as the online hub is a dream that will never come true. Cool ideas though.

Animal crossing village would be thousand times better.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

I admit I don't know even where to begin, with an answer like this. Your answer is... WiiWare?

Do you think that if these people had the budget to attempt an HD console project, they wouldn't?

Flawless argument.

Good day to you, sir.

 

[watershed]

Animal crossing village would be thousand times better.

I think animal crossing city would be better where your mii could interact with other miis as well as oddly dressed bipedal animals. City would be better because its more modern and would have plenty of cafes!

 

[Amir0x]

And didn't it break your heart when the plug was pulled? And the magic ended also as soon as it started?

What I'm trying to say is that I want a GCN2, not a Wii2, but I'd like Nintendo do make a GCN2 that sells, so I can get that kind of Nintendo software for an entire generation.
I think a GCN2 could perfectly work, but Nintendo is making the same kind of mistakes it did with the GCN (releasing a non-next gen console more or less at the end of the generation it's meant to be part of) and that makes me pessimist.
GCN software was fantastic, both first party and third party. The CONSOLE and it's marketing was a problem.

No, because GCN had a perfectly normal five year life span. Up until that point, that's about as long as I expected consoles to last.

I doubt you meat ill (as you say, it's a posting style), you've just labeled me as a sad guy who puts sales above quality, and that's nowhere near to what I'm saying. Now I could go back at you saying I'm taking offense in being labeled something I'm not because you're failing to understand what I'm saying, but I'm sure none of us want to fling poo at each other, also because I feel we actually agree on the core point. I won't try to discuss the thing you've taken offense for, because I know you'd rebutt and I don't think anyone else is interested in that. Just know I meant no offense, and it probably came out in an harsher way than I wanted, but I still think you sometimes cross the line between abrasive and judgemental. I've got no problem in seeing you post your opinion in the most flamboyant and self-confident way possible (I do the same), it's how you adress mine that may offend me. But really let's avoid this crap. I'm sorry if I offended you.

You're implicating yourself for no reason. I don't care about sales. I said I think it's sad that this is the metric for determining the quality of a system, but that it is your prerogative if you want to do that. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other if you do. I'm just emphasizing how that will never be an aspect I weigh in determining whether a system is good or not.

My experience was that of having a couple years of bliss and then quite a lot of dread, but I'm a peculiar Nintendo fan in many ways, and I don't dig EVERYTHING they do. I'd just want them to succeed enough with the next console to go and dare again, because we're not getting games if this new thing bomb as hard as the GCN did. What was sustainable in 2003 may not be sustainable today.

We'll keep getting Nintendo games. They're in no danger. So as long as they get back to making games they're good at, and avoid the pitfalls of this embarrassing Wii detour, we'll have a great system again. Frankly from all the details I'm more than a little optimistic in much the same way I was optimistic (and still am) about the prospects of 3DS. The more focus on the hardcore, the better chance the platform has of being something that is worth half a damn.

Was I petty I should answer that it honestly looks like you don't really give a damn about my opinion but you're ranting against some imaginary guy who said something I didn't. I hope my opinion is clearer now. The GCN was fantastic, my issue is with how it was sent to die.

Again, this is the problem with many neoGAFers. You guys parse my comments and read in between statements and come up with all sorts of bizarre interpretation of my statements and then we get to these misunderstandings because of it.

I will say what I mean exactly, and nothing more. If I didn't give a damn about your opinions I would not respond to you. I ignore the people whose opinions I don't value.

If your argument is GCN was sent to die, so far it's not a compelling one since I don't agree. It had vastly more appealing games than Wii and N64, lasted the standard 5 year life cycle and represented a creative height for Nintendo and their partnerships introducing fantastic games like Pikmin, Chibi Robo and Odama. They had the greatest racing game ever with F-Zero GX. They had one of the greatest RPGs ever in Thousand Year Door. They had one of the greatest action/adventure games ever in Wind Waker. The sublime Super Mario Sunshine is basically a relaxing, platforming dream - haters be damned. Baten Kaitos 2 and Tales of Symphonia. Viewtiful Joe is one of the greatest games of all time, to say nothing of Resident Evil 4. I always thought the GCN version of Beyond Good and Evil was the best version. Pikmin 2 is one of the top ten greatest games of all time. Wave Race Blue was a forgotten gem. Fire Emblem was phenomenal. For every time you repeat 'i'm overstating the systems quality', I can rattle off a dozen more games I loved.

Twilight Princess is a GCN game and remains so, no matter how much awful waggly bits Nintendo tried to force into the package. Camera control for the definitive win. The GCN version remains my preference. I don't even need to go preacher about Metroid Prime - those games speak for themselves. Jungle Beat was a quaint, bizarre expression of what is still left to be explored in the platforming genre. One of the best games of the entire gen. And I prefer Double Dash to Mario Kart because the double kart riding mechanic is actually brilliant and it's a damned shame people shit on the game. Plus, it's less one or two cheese weapons that they added to Mario Kart Wii. Because as we all know, every new iteration of Mario Kart Nintendo adds a new game breakingly cheesy weapon that further ruins the balance.

I do not overstate the quality of GCN as it stands for me. It and SNES are the ultimate Nintendo systems to date, and it's not even close frankly.

1. Ok, if Nintendo thinks the GCN was cool and they're willing to lose millions and give us another, then preach on, I'm in for that. To break down: "beautiful" = the console was great, the software was excellent, "disaster" = it was a monstrous bomba and it may have changed Nintendo's policies forever, as I doubt they want to repeat it. My hope: keep the beautiful, avoid the disaster. I perceive a strong disconnection between this opinion and the arguments you're raising against it.

That's because it's not even something that enters my lexicon. If it is successful that's grand I still won't care. If it's a failure I won't care. The only thing that ever enters my consideration is: "Does it have a lot of good games?" Yes, sales often leads to greater software, but as demonstrated with the insanely high quality of GCN it often does not matter. Sometimes the software is amazing without the associated sales. That's why it's not something I consider. I have no company allegiance and so I don't care if Sony, Microsoft OR Nintendo have smash hits. I only care if they bring the games I want to play.

3. If that's your approach, then yes, there's little to discuss; we're talking about the Cafè here tho, and dismissing the GCN's commercial failure when discussing our hope that the Cafè will be anything like it seems somewhat superficial to me.

The least superficial distinction of GCN is games quality. Seems the direct correlation in the hopes and dreams of Stream is that simple. I hope Nintendo returns to the era of GCN greatness, sales be damned.

It's interesting to see how quick you are to call other people fanboys, yet you're so eager to espouse your own hyperbolic point of view, dragging down the discourse of entire threads in the process.

People drag the threads down on their own. We'd have amazing discussions if every five posts petulant whiners didn't stop to complain about how we're having these very discussions they claim nobody wants to participate in while everyone simultaneously is participating in them.

If you don't like the conversation ignore it and move on. I cannot tell you how tired I am of having to emphasize this for people like you.

Your recollection of the Gamecube is almost as hilariously rose tinted as your scorn of the Wii is caricature-like. The idea that the cube had a steady stream of great titles throughout its lifespan is laughable. In fact, terrible software droughts punctuated by occasional top tier games is something both systems have in common. In fact that's been a Nintendo halmark since the N64 days, when 3rd party support first really eroded.

It's not a recollection. I play GCN every week or every other week, if nothing else but at least to replay Wind Waker, REmake, Pikmin 2 and F-Zero GX. I play Wii almost never. The reason is the huge disparity in quality. I have a total of three Wii games on my top thirty list. I have a total of ten GCN games on my thirty. I have a total of ten Wii games in total that I even think I'll care about once the system retires; I have a total of twenty five GCN games that I still regularly pop in once in a while to play.

My viewpoints are not nostalgia-driven bullshit, like the people who pretend to still like NES with its archaic, comically outdated gameplay or something. I only come to the conclusions based on the objective analysis of what I play. When I see something has not left my playlist, that means it is doing a better job of standing the test of time over something else. Wii has already lost my interest for most of its games. Yes, partially that's because of the controller, but mostly that's because of Nintendo's reduced quality of hardcore titles. Super Mario Galaxy is the only thing that has convinced me the old Nintendo is even still around.

On the whole I think it's highly debatable which system has the superior library. It's certainly not as open and shut a case as you've been painting it.

Everything is debatable. Otherwise, we would not be having a debate. Nonetheless, my opinion stands that it is not even a competition. GCN massacres Wii.

 

[Amir0x]

The worst part about all the offensive Amir0x posts is that he thinks his opinion is the only one and shits on everyone else's (generally Nintendo related threads) and you can't put him on ignore list because he is a mod.

The worst part of posters like you is that you're so offended by opinions contrary to your own, stated strongly and with conviction, that you think it is a personal attack on you and resort to bullshit attacks on the person over analysis of the points they're making.

This is why threads get derailed, of course. Because of posters like you who intentionally break the rules by attacking posters and not their positions.

learn to argue against the points in a discussion without making it personal or insulting the other party. Present your points well and others will respect your opinion more

Read the FAQ. It specifically mentions this very habit. Soon, it's going to start being enforced.

You do not need to hide behind the ignore function like a child to ignore posts. Use self control, skip over the posts involved in this discussion or start your own discussion.

Nah, the worst part is that he's basically above reproach being a moderator. If anybody higher up has taken notice, they certainly don't seem to mind. In other contexts people usually get warned or mocked openly by the community for posting in the extremely aggressive, often outright trolling fashion that he does. I just mentally ignore his opinions because they're so crazy 90% of the time.

What would they notice? The extremely detailed, well thought out posts analyzing my position in great effort?

Or the whining, bullshit empty contentless posts like your own which serve to not only reduce the quality of the discourse, but attack users instead of the posts they make?

Protip: YOUR post is the one that would get people banned, not my own. You're lucky I'm not that type of mod. But this rule is soon going to start being enforced. Since the FAQ is just been revised and people are just starting to read it, it's time to start understanding real quick.

 

[GregLombardi]

GOD people, before you acuse Amir0x of anti-nintendoism you really need to research his posts and actually think about them. He's pretty damn agnostic, like everyone should be.

 

[KAL2006]

Chiming in the GameCube versus Wii disscusion

I think they are both about even, and both worse than PS2, PS3 and 360 libraries.

GameCube has
Metroid Prime series
Pikmin series
Tales of Symphonia
Beyond Good and Evil
Viewtiful Joe series
REmake and RE4
Zelda Windwaker
Smash Bros Melee
Paper Mario 2
Soul Calibur 2
F Zero GX
TimeSplitters series

Wii has
Mario Galaxy series
Zak and Wiki
Zelda Skyward Sword
Xenoblade
Wii Sports and Resort
No More Heroes series
DKC Returns
NSMBWii
Sin and Punishment 2
Monster Hunter Tri
GoldenEye

However GC wins just because it has more multiplatform support than Wii, GC still got a few multiplatform games like Burnout, Spiderman 2 and etc.

 

[watershed]

Anyway...
So, I was thinking. Are they going to have an online version of the 3DS's MiiPlaza? They'll definitely still use Miis, but for what? They are certainly going to keep evolving them.

This is what stood out as odd to me about the 3ds launch. Maybe they will add MiiPlaza or Mii Parade in a future update? Mii Plaza was such a interesting and successful concept on the Wii its strange that its completely absent on the 3ds though I think its because they want to emphasize Mii Street Pass Plaza so they won't let you do that over Wifi? Or maybe they are saving some expanded and better version of MiiPlaza for the cafe.

 

[Starchasing]

The worst part of posters like you is that you're so offended by opinions contrary to your own, stated strongly and with conviction, that you think it is a personal attack on you and resort to bullshit attacks on the person over analysis of the points they're making.

Most people tell you that they are offended not but your opinions but in the way you present them.

 

[Amir0x]

Most people tell you that they are offended not but your opinions but in the way you present them.

Yes, with extremely well thought out point by point analysis of my positions and others positions.

At this point, it's simple. Either you don't respond to me or we're going to start culling posters who whine about the person instead of the points they make. And that goes to ANY person - not just me. If someone takes the time to deeply analyze others positions, you show them the respect to do the same or you don't respond. It's time to decide, 'cause once that thread is unstickied it's open season.

No More Heroes series

If you're gonna list this, might as well list KILLER 7 for Gamecube

 

[Fernando Rocker]

I don't know... but I have this feeling... this very strong feeling, specially because I had a dream again about this last night...

I really think that Nintendo is going to announce a Nintendo vs Capcom game this E3.

 

[Amir0x]

You have balls, Father_Brain, after I just laid down the warning. I won't warn you again. I'm deleting the post as a courtesy to you to shape up and respond to points being made. If you fail to do so again, the outcome is a ban. And it's going to be a massively long ban since this is the thirteenth or so time you've tried to play that world's smallest violin.

 

[Man God]

Amirox clearly loves games and has no fear whatsoever expressing his opinion, that's why I like him. Sometimes I think he exaggerates a bit too much but who doesn't when they clearly loves something.

Right on the money with the GCN's lifespan though. It began in November 2001 and basically ended with BK:O in September 2006. You could make an argument that it actually died in late 2005.

 

[[Nintex]]

So target render people, lets get to back to the important stuff here. How would a next-gen F-Zero look in 1080p?