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Wii 2 (Project Cafe): Officially Announced, Playable At E3, Launching 2012 [Updated]

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Yeah I reckon that the 3DS online changed at some point in the last 12 months when they knew they probably couldn't do all they wanted themselves with Project Cafè, so switched to someone who could and therefore delayed online with 3DS as it would unveil to big of a good thing?

Also I think they shelved plans for the always on Wii thing due to I think the WiFi module overheating in earlier Wiis....wasn't this the cause of the speckling issue??
 

Disguises

Member
DefectiveReject said:
Yeah I reckon that the 3DS online changed at some point in the last 12 months when they knew they probably couldn't do all they wanted themselves with Project Cafè, so switched to someone who could and therefore delayed online with 3DS as it would unveil to big of a good thing?

Also I think they shelved plans for the always on Wii thing due to I think the WiFi module overheating in earlier Wiis....wasn't this the cause of the speckling issue??
Apparently, yes. However, mines been on pretty much every day since launch 5 years ago and I haven't experienced any issues.
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
DefectiveReject said:
Yeah I reckon that the 3DS online changed at some point in the last 12 months when they knew they probably couldn't do all they wanted themselves with Project Cafè, so switched to someone who could and therefore delayed online with 3DS as it would unveil to big of a good thing?

Also I think they shelved plans for the always on Wii thing due to I think the WiFi module overheating in earlier Wiis....wasn't this the cause of the speckling issue??

the problem with the wiis overheating is that the fan turns off when in stanby mode.

the wii is fine when on, but on standby it overheats... quite silly.

if i leave my wii in standby it will freeze when i boot it.
 
Amir0x said:
i don't get it. it's a really poor defense of something imo when you ever have to use the sentence: "it's not that bad."

What that means is: "Well, it is bad, but you can live with it, so why not settle and stop complaining?"

The answer is: "Because they have competitors, and competitors have competent online systems not restrained by terrible, offensive friend codes, so there is no reason to make excuses for it there."

One day they'll drop it and then finally people will stop finding ways to argue that we should live with it...
I never intended of defending Nintendos way of incorporating Friendcodes. They pretty much did everything wrong with them.

I'm arguing for the use of codes, not how amateurish Nintendo implemented them.
Nintendos implementation of a numeric identification is beyond hope. Even on the 3DS, where they made it less a hassle, it is still incredibly uncomfortable.

Numeric codes have benefits. Like stated before, you can have multiple nicknames for different games etc.

I'm merely practical. As of now, it is highly unlikely that Nintendo will abandon friend codes (at least on the 3DS) so streamlining the process entirely would make the situation a lot better. Friend requests and unified messages are a must.
 
Disguises said:
Apparently, yes. However, mines been on pretty much every day since launch 5 years ago and I haven't experienced any issues.
Yeah I have no issues with a launch console too, but some did and I guess they didn't want the wrap from issues?

Specially as Animal Crossing at unveil had these features, but the released game had them dropped......?
Maybe they didn't have the ability to deliver, which I doubt very much.
Or maybe stopping home brew kept them occupied?
 

Amir0x

Banned
boris feinbrand said:
I never intended of defending Nintendos way of incorporating Friendcodes. They pretty much did everything wrong with them.

I'm arguing for the use of codes, not how amateurish Nintendo implemented them.
Nintendos implementation of a numeric identification is beyond hope. Even on the 3DS, where they made it less a hassle, it is still incredibly uncomfortable.

Numeric codes have benefits. Like stated before, you can have multiple nicknames for different games etc.

I'm merely practical. As of now, it is highly unlikely that Nintendo will abandon friend codes (at least on the 3DS) so streamlining the process entirely would make the situation a lot better. Friend requests and unified messages are a must.

You don't think if Nintendo's intent is truly to theme the new console around social interaction that they won't abandon them? Maybe I'm being too optimistic but I really do think they might finally let it go. There's really no benefit to them. They don't protect children, you can do the nick thing in another, less exhaustively awful way and they have no other conceivable benefits I can think of.

Nintendo has to realize at this point it's just allowing them to fall further behind the curve. It took over an hour to enter all the friend codes I got on neoGAF for 3DS.
 
I don't think we're seeing friendcodes go, pretty much only because Nintendo is stubborn as hell and they've already been implemented on 3DS. Also, if it is one per system I really don't care. As long as they can deliver quality online I'll be happy.

So I guess I'm probably not going to be happy.
 

antonz

Member
herzogzwei1989 said:
The next 30 or so days are going to be absolute TORTURE ;)
Especially since most print sources are having to get hands on time with certain things around now to prep their post E3 editions.

The potential f r more leaks of course increases but at the same time alot of pressure on potential sources since particular things are only being shown to particular people
 

Rich!

Member
CoffeeJanitor said:
I don't think we're seeing friendcodes go, pretty much only because Nintendo is stubborn as hell and they've already been implemented on 3DS. Also, if it is one per system I really don't care. As long as they can deliver quality online I'll be happy.

So I guess I'm probably not going to be happy.

As said previously, Nintendo have said in emails to UK Club Nintendo members that in the May 3DS update, you will be able to link your club nintendo account to your 3DS console. And they could easily get rid of friend codes with the firmware update and swap them for a better system - like the one mentioned above which would be email based.
 

Azure J

Member
As a veteran poster from the GAF 3DS wait, I want to say that this wait isn't as crazy/bad as it could be, but fuuuuck, I wish if some good hint would get dropped now.
 

Orayn

Member
Gvaz said:
Take the consoles out of the equation anyways.

People will save money. Sell peripherals instead
What are you on about? Why would Nintendo throw away their lucrative console business?
 

Amir0x

Banned
AzureJericho said:
As a veteran poster from the GAF 3DS wait, I want to say that this wait isn't as crazy/bad as it could be, but fuuuuck, I wish if some good hint would get dropped now.

we just had a slew of new Kotaku rumours the other day. That's some fodder in the vacuum :p
 

Gvaz

Banned
Orayn said:
What are you on about? Why would Nintendo throw away their lucrative console business?
I'm not saying they would, I'm just fruitlessly wishing consoles never came into the equation.

Innovation is not hampered by not having a locked down exclusive system.
 

Sadist

Member
plank said:
Oh...............





Is it E3 now? :\
133681-hank-pym_400.jpg


"Shut up"

Marvel Zombies 2 is a fun book
 
It still hasn't really hit me that Nintendo is revealing a new console.

It's almost difficult to believe that anyone is revealing a new console in a month.
 
Amir0x said:
i don't get it. it's a really poor defense of something imo when you ever have to use the sentence: "it's not that bad."

What that means is: "Well, it is bad, but you can live with it, so why not settle and stop complaining?"

I'll break it down for you:

It's because by reducing the number of friend codes to 1 per system, and replicating the important functionality of competing systems (adding friends without writing their tag down by using a browsing interface for "recently played with" or "currently playing with"), you make the experience mostly hassle free. Writing down a number for your friends is not difficult, and takes minimal time. It's worse than the average case for a tag, but not worse than the worst case (Sup4L33tKill4RK4pAK0p has come online), and acting like this is a dealbreaker for an online system is, frankly, pathetic. It is indeed true that I would prefer a Steam style system (Heck, I'd just prefer Steam but it ain't gonna happen), but the Friendcode vs Usernames debate is overshadowed by the far more important aspects of the online system, such as:

- The ability to use and host dedicated servers
- A party system
- Cross game chat
- The system being free
- The system being reliable

It's the recognition that nobody should give a shit because it's a miniscule issue once they've reduced it to the one code w/ an invite system. You're continuing to make a mountain out of a molehill. This is probably going to be the least offensive part of Nintendo's reworked online system, and you'll have far more substantial things troll about when we actually start to get real details about it.
 
GregLombardi said:
It still hasn't really hit me that Nintendo is revealing a new console.

It's almost difficult to believe that anyone is revealing a new console in a month.
Well, the Wii came out over 4 years ago. And by the time the Cafe comes out, it'll have been out nearly 6 years.
Seems fitting.
Did people really think that just because Sony and MS went insane with console power and developers can't run their companies worth shit that we would see a 10 year console generation?
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
antonz said:
It will likely be based on the 740 so have 640 stream processors

Thing is, Nintendo don't release specs. We will have to guess based on the games shown.

4770 performance would be sweet.
 
Based on everything we've heard so far, a 4770 derivative would be most likely, given its lower power draw.
And with XBox 3 kits already out, it would also mean that the Cafe wouldn't be very far behind next gen.
 

antonz

Member
THE:MILKMAN said:
Thing is, Nintendo don't release specs. We will have to guess based on the games shown.

4770 performance would be sweet.
well the thing is even if its the 740 its gonna be modified for better console performance etc. All we can really do is take the PC cards and extrapolate data from there.

The 4770 comes across as the most reasonable card to start off from and modify. It was already a 40nm chip at launch in mid 2009 and was quite power efficient. The lower end of the RV700 family offers performance well below the 360 so we know they wont be starting there.

AceBandage said:
Based on everything we've heard so far, a 4770 derivative would be most likely, given its lower power draw.
And with XBox 3 kits already out, it would also mean that the Cafe wouldn't be very far behind next gen.
Confirmation from several sources have come out to say that the Xbox3 story was full of crap. I do think its possible by the end of the year early dev kits could start going out though
 

WillyFive

Member
GregLombardi said:
It still hasn't really hit me that Nintendo is revealing a new console.

It's almost difficult to believe that anyone is revealing a new console in a month.

Yeah. Even though it's the correct time frame, for some reason it felt like this was a really short gen (probably because it felt like it was going to be longer).
 
antonz said:
well the thing is even if its the 740 its gonna be modified for better console performance etc. All we can really do is take the PC cards and extrapolate data from there.

The 4770 comes across as the most reasonable card to start off from and modify. It was already a 40nm chip at launch in mid 2009 and was quite power efficient. The lower end of the RV700 family offers performance well below the 360 so we know they wont be starting there.


Confirmation from several sources have come out to say that the Xbox3 story was full of crap. I do think its possible by the end of the year early dev kits could start going out though


Ah, hadn't seen that. Well then, that makes things interesting again. I wonder if Nintendo's E3 showing will force a hand or two.
 
ace3skoot said:
hmm... like for loz:twighlight princess or a that pregancy test...

definitly loz:twighlight princess

no, much worse. magical girls. it scarred me for life. so I know this won't be too bad. especially if we got rumors coming out every week
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
AceBandage said:
Ah, hadn't seen that. Well then, that makes things interesting again. I wonder if Nintendo's E3 showing will force a hand or two.

I have faith the console will be powerful enough to out perform the 360 and PS3.

The question is; Will Sony and Microsoft release new console with the same power difference the 360 and PS3 had over the Wii, or will they be roughly the same?
 

Fritz

Member
Willy105 said:
Yeah. Even though it's the correct time frame, for some reason it felt like this was a really short gen (probably because it felt like it was going to be longer).

Or probably because there were fewer AA or otherwise remarkable titles for all consoles this generation? Or is that just another false reception.
 

antonz

Member
BY2K said:
I have faith the console will be powerful enough to out perform the 360 and PS3.

The question is; Will Sony and Microsoft release new console with the same power difference the 360 and PS3 had over the Wii, or will they be roughly the same?
The real issue comes down to miniturization really. I think the 4000 series of cards gets alot of undeserved flack because there are 6000 series cards already.

The big thing though is the fact the 5000 series was not the kind of jump people think. Most 5k cards perform very similar to their 4k series rivals.

I just dont think its practical to be seeing anything from the 6000 series in consoles yet so if the Xbox3 and PS4 end up with 5000 series cards they will have improvements over the 4k series for sure but the gap is not gonna be grand canyon big
 
Fritz said:
Or probably because there were fewer AA or otherwise remarkable titles for all consoles this generation? Or is that just another false reception.


I dunno if you can say there are fewer remarkable titles this generation. They're there and there are lots.
You just have to search for them a bit harder.
 

Darryl

Banned
Has anyone brought up the possibility of enabling the controllers for playing video games while the actual console is used for other purposes?

It seems like it would be a good marketing tool for capturing the whole family/casual audience pretty well, by letting people 'split' the living room up whenever it's necessary. Parents could either browse Netflix while their kids use the disk-drive to play games, or parents can use that drive to watch a nice Blu-ray together while their kids can play micro-games on their controllers (although this doesn't quite fit the no-hard drive rumor). It would make it a dual-purpose system, for both entertainment and gaming. I think that could buy a lot of parents.
 

Amir0x

Banned
ThoseDeafMutes said:
I'll break it down for you:

It's because by reducing the number of friend codes to 1 per system, and replicating the important functionality of competing systems (adding friends without writing their tag down by using a browsing interface for "recently played with" or "currently playing with"), you make the experience mostly hassle free. Writing down a number for your friends is not difficult, and takes minimal time. It's worse than the average case for a tag, but not worse than the worst case (Sup4L33tKill4RK4pAK0p has come online), and acting like this is a dealbreaker for an online system is, frankly, pathetic. It is indeed true that I would prefer a Steam style system (Heck, I'd just prefer Steam but it ain't gonna happen), but the Friendcode vs Usernames debate is overshadowed by the far more important aspects of the online system, such as:

- The ability to use and host dedicated servers
- A party system
- Cross game chat
- The system being free
- The system being reliable

It's the recognition that nobody should give a shit because it's a miniscule issue once they've reduced it to the one code w/ an invite system. You're continuing to make a mountain out of a molehill. This is probably going to be the least offensive part of Nintendo's reworked online system, and you'll have far more substantial things troll about when we actually start to get real details about it.

I hate to be reductive to start with, but again your argument literally can be summed up in: "Well, it's not that bad, so why are you complaining about it?" or "Well sure the other thing is better, but this is ok I guess." This is not an argument. This is an excuse.

First of all, it is bad. It's terrible, in fact. I am almost amused we're still having that discussion in 2011 about whether it's awful or not. Adding in numbers is the most ridiculous, hassle oriented method of adding people imaginable. When I had to add neoGAF members to my 3DS it took no less than an hour to add every code. I won't even mention how long it took on Wii.

Do you know how long it took for me to add people on XBL and PSN? I got over 60 people added on in less than five minutes. When someone wants to add me, I get prompted to accept and they magically go on my list too. Nicknames are natural to remember, long, 12 digit numbers are not.

For every excuse you make for it, you reduce the seriousness of your argument. You may call not lowering ones standards to make excuses for a giant corporations incompetent decisions as "pathetic", but I call it "not being a sycophant."

And your final conclusion - that there are other even MORE important issues to focus on - is entirely beside the point. Having more than one serious problem does not change that something else is also a problem. You cannot erase a problem by suggesting there are other more serious problems too. They are all problems, and I am an adult and can focus on them all.

Nintendo does not exist in a vacuum. Until they do, I am going to call out and rightly slam any company that does something markedly worse than their competitors. Friend codes is one on a long list of major problems they have to fix if they're going to have a competent, competitive online system. Period.
 
TunaLover said:
They released specs for gcn.
But not for any system since then. And with Gamecube they started dialing back too, going from peak theoreticals to conservative "in game" benchmarks.

Have full 3DS specs even leaked yet?
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
antonz said:
The real issue comes down to miniturization really. I think the 4000 series of cards gets alot of undeserved flack because there are 6000 series cards already.

The big thing though is the fact the 5000 series was a stopgap between the 4k and 6k series. Most 5k cards barely outperform their reival in the 4k series and in many cases they are practically identical.

I just dont think its practical to be seeing anything from the 6000 series in consoles yet so if the Xbox3 and PS4 end up with 5000 series cards they will have improvements over the 4k series for sure but the gap is not gonna be grand canyon big

So third party games going on all 3 platforms with pretty much the same graphics and performance would be possible, then?
 
Darryl said:
Has anyone brought up the possibility of enabling the controllers for playing video games while the actual console is used for other purposes?

It seems like it would be a good marketing tool for capturing the whole family/casual audience pretty well, by letting people 'split' the living room up whenever it's necessary. Parents could either browse Netflix while their kids use the disk-drive to play games, or parents can use that drive to watch a nice Blu-ray together while their kids can play micro-games on their controllers (although this doesn't quite fit the no-hard drive rumor). It would make it a dual-purpose system, for both entertainment and gaming. I think that could buy a lot of parents.


The problem here is that you would basically be cutting your resources in half. Which means full disc games wouldn't run on the controller at all.

BY2K said:
So third party games going on all 3 platforms with pretty much the same graphics and performance would be possible, then?


Unless there's some giant GPU boom next year, I think you can count on it.
 

antonz

Member
BY2K said:
So third party games going on all 3 platforms with pretty much the same graphics and performance would be possible, then?
I think if Nintendo does go with a 4770 Minimum they could easily position themselves as the PS2 machine of the next gen. The other 2 might have power advantages but its not going to be enough to doom the machine.

It still means Nintendo needs to work with the 3rd parties heavily and make sure they can build a good base on their next gen console to threaten though
 

Woffls

Member
BY2K said:
The question is; Will Sony and Microsoft release new console with the same power difference the 360 and PS3 had over the Wii, or will they be roughly the same?
If either console is close to Café in terms of power, that screws over the third console entirely. If I had to guess, I'd say one of two things will happen:

1) Microsoft release a console late next year, slightly more powerful than Café by a similar margin to Xbox and Gamecube. PS4 launches at least a year after and is significantly more powerful, but third parties stay with MS/Ninty and PS4 gets screwed over.

2) MS launches in 2013 with a significantly more powerful machine, and Sony follows suit shortly after. We are then left in the same position as the current generation, except Nintendo got a head start, and a lot of 3rd party publishers won't be able to invest in the new platforms. The market splinters, with 1st parties and mega-publishers like EA and Activision making amazing looking games on PS4/XB3, and medium sized publishers carry on making games for current gen systems.
 
Woffls said:
If either console is close to Café in terms of power, that screws over the third console entirely. If I had to guess, I'd say one of two things will happen:

1) Microsoft release a console late next year, slightly more powerful than Café by a similar margin to Xbox and Gamecube. PS4 launches at least a year after and is significantly more powerful, but third parties stay with MS/Ninty and PS4 gets screwed over.

2) MS launches in 2013 with a significantly more powerful machine, and Sony follows suit shortly after. We are then left in the same position as the current generation, except Nintendo got a head start, and a lot of 3rd party publishers won't be able to invest in the new platforms. The market splinters, with 1st parties and mega-publishers like EA and Activision making amazing looking games on PS4/XB3, and medium sized publishers carry on making games for current gen systems.


Even in situation 2, we aren't in the same boat.
The engines should still be scablable to the Cafe from the PS4/720, which wasn't possible for the Wii due to a number of reasons (lack of HD and non-programmable shaders being the biggest).
 
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