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[Amir0x]

Threads get locked approaching 20,000 posts. You still got time

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Has an invite system been confirmed for this then? Some people are claiming it has but I haven't read anything. The friend code thing is hilariously terrible - an invite system at least takes one step out of the process. Why it's not just usernames is beyond me.

 

[BY2K]

Hey, we're approaching 10,000 posts again in this second huge thread. I wasn't able to participate in the old one cuz it got locked.

I think this one will survive until E3.

How does E3 works at GAF? (500 errors aside) One thread for each conference?

 

[AceBandage]

Has an invite system been confirmed for this? The friend code thing is hilariously terrible - an invite system at least takes one step out of the process. Why it's not just usernames is beyond me.

Nothing's been confirmed for this system period, except that it exists and will be at E3.
Rumor is that the Cafe will ditch friend codes, but we can't say for certain.

I think this one will survive until E3.

How does E3 works at GAF? (500 errors aside) One thread for each conference?

Yeah, a mega thread for each conference, threads for major announcements, after threads for rankings and gifs.
And we actually should see a lot less 500s this year, thanks to the new servers. We survived Osama-ton with just half the avatars disappearing.

 

[Amir0x]

Has an invite system been confirmed for this then? Some people are claiming it has but I haven't read anything. The friend code thing is hilariously terrible - an invite system at least takes one step out of the process. Why it's not just usernames is beyond me.

I would suspect if they're so retarded they keep the friend code system, they will at least take the next small step and make sure it's invites. I can't imagine they'd retain that level of stupidity with a console that is socially themed.

With Nintendo it's typically always one small step forward, but I really think this gen or next they're done with friend codes. They gotta know how dumb it is like the rest of Earth does.

 

[The Technomancer]

I think this one will survive until E3.

How does E3 works at GAF? (500 errors aside) One thread for each conference?

One thread for each conference, with splinter threads for each big announcement.

 

[Man God]

I think this one will survive until E3.

How does E3 works at GAF? (500 errors aside) One thread for each conference?

Conference threads which shard off as new stuff is introduced. But mainly it is lots of refreshing.

 

[AceBandage]

I'm taking that Tuesday off (don't care so much for MS and Sony's conference since Sony will spill everything before hand and MS is boring).
It's been a while since I've been able to share E3 with GAF all day.

 

[brochiller]

Conference threads which shard off as new stuff is introduced. But mainly it is lots of refreshing.

I think I hit the F5 button more times during Nintendo's conference last year than I have cumulatively since then.

 

[BY2K]

I'm taking that Tuesday off (don't care so much for MS and Sony's conference since Sony will spill everything before hand and MS is boring).
It's been a while since I've been able to share E3 with GAF all day.

I'm taking the week off, aside from watching all the conference, there's things I need to do, I'm moving in July.

Will be my first E3 as a GAF member (I've been lurking during the last one because I didn't have a non-free e-mail address).

I hope the gifs will be good.

 

[linko9]

Unless there's some giant GPU boom next year, I think you can count on it.

I'm not so sure of this. I'm not well versed in the technical aspects of the situation, but I'd be very surprised if the next consoles from Sony and Microsoft (especially the former) didn't drastically outperform Cafe. Sony and MS know where their bread is buttered, and they know that they've got to push out a console that is noticeably superior to the Cafe graphically if they're going to keep their current place in the market, much less improve it. As the generations march on, it's becoming increasingly more difficult to produce graphics that appear obviously superior to the previous generation in the eyes of the average consumer. Essentially, most gamers won't notice that a game looks better than CoD:BlOps unless it looks a hell of a lot better; better than anything that can be produced on a $500 machine within the next year. At his point, the technology does not exist to make an affordable console that drastically outperforms the current generation of consoles in the same way that previous console generations have outperformed their predecessors. That being the case, MS and Sony will play the waiting game. I believe the rumor that their consoles won't come out until 2014. And when they come out, they'll be 4 to 500 dollar graphical powerhouses sold at a loss, and will be quite noticeably superior to the Cafe graphically.

That is, unless they decide that pandering to the enthusiast crowd isn't worth it, and decide to take a page out of the Wii's playbook... but I just don't see that happening.

 

[Disguises]

I'm taking the week off, aside from watching all the conference, there's things I need to do, I'm moving in July.

Will be my first E3 as a GAF member (I've been lurking during the last one because I didn't have a non-free e-mail address).

I hope the gifs will be good.

The gifs are always good . Hopefully my boss won't mind me watching this after I finish work at work ( I think its 6pm here)

 

[civilstrife]

I hate to be reductive to start with, but again your argument literally can be summed up in: "Well, it's not that bad, so why are you complaining about it?" or "Well sure the other thing is better, but this is ok I guess." This is not an argument. This is an excuse.

First of all, it is bad. It's terrible, in fact. I am almost amused we're still having that discussion in 2011 about whether it's awful or not. Adding in numbers is the most ridiculous, hassle oriented method of adding people imaginable. When I had to add neoGAF members to my 3DS it took no less than an hour to add every code. I won't even mention how long it took on Wii.

Do you know how long it took for me to add people on XBL and PSN? I got over 60 people added on in less than five minutes. When someone wants to add me, I get prompted to accept and they magically go on my list too. Nicknames are natural to remember, long, 12 digit numbers are not.

For every excuse you make for it, you reduce the seriousness of your argument. You may call not lowering ones standards to make excuses for a giant corporations incompetent decisions as "pathetic", but I call it "not being a sycophant."

And your final conclusion - that there are other even MORE important issues to focus on - is entirely beside the point. Having more than one serious problem does not change that something else is also a problem. You cannot erase a problem by suggesting there are other more serious problems too. They are all problems, and I am an adult and can focus on them all.

Nintendo does not exist in a vacuum. Until they do, I am going to call out and rightly slam any company that does something markedly worse than their competitors. Friend codes is one on a long list of major problems they have to fix if they're going to have a competent, competitive online system. Period.

I agree that it's a terrible system, but your first argument is really flawed. You say that it took you an hour to input all your Neogaf friends. That has nothing to do with Nintendo using Friendcodes instead of usernames. It has only to do with the fact that there's no friend request notification. Nevermind the fact that inputting any kind of text or numbers is infinitely faster on a touchscreen than on a 360 pad.

Imputting a string of numbers takes as much time as inputting a string of letters. The problem is that both parties have to do it, and that nobody is going to remember 12 digit numbers.

There are plenty of arguments why friendcodes suck without having to come up with fake ones.

 

[AceBandage]

I'm taking the week off, aside from watching all the conference, there's things I need to do, I'm moving in July.

Will be my first E3 as a GAF member (I've been lurking during the last one because I didn't have a non-free e-mail address).

I hope the gifs will be good.

Last years.


There's a lot to go through, and some of it is dumb, but there's a lot of gems. Particularly from MS and Konami.

I'm not so sure of this. I'm not well versed in the technical aspects of the situation, but I'd be very surprised if the next consoles from Sony and Microsoft (especially the former) didn't drastically outperform Cafe. Sony and MS know where their bread is buttered, and they know that they've got to push out a console that is noticeably superior to the Cafe graphically if they're going to keep their current place in the market, much less improve it. As the generations march on, it's becoming increasingly more difficult to produce graphics that appear obviously superior to the previous generation in the eyes of the average consumer. Essentially, most gamers won't notice that a game looks better than CoD:BlOps unless it looks a hell of a lot better; better than anything that can be produced on a $500 machine within the next year. At his point, the technology does not exist to make an affordable console that drastically outperforms the current generation of consoles in the same way that previous console generations have outperformed their predecessors. That being the case, MS and Sony will play the waiting game. I believe the rumor that their consoles won't come out until 2014. And when they come out, they'll be 4 to 500 dollar graphical powerhouses sold at a loss, and will be quite noticeably superior to the Cafe graphically.

That is, unless they decide that pandering to the enthusiast crowd isn't worth it, and decide to take a page out of the Wii's playbook... but I just don't see that happening.

The problem is that you can't simply put a super powerful PC GPU into a console and it'll work.
You need one that is low power consumption, thus runs cooler, or you get a situation worse than the 360's RROD.
As it stands, the 6000 line really doesn't fit that bill, and it doesn't look to as of now.
But even then, if they DID go with a GPU in the 6000 line that could theoretically work in a console without melting, that would still put a 4770 within their range. Just enough that the Cafe would still get (albeit toned down) ports. And with a year or two head start, this could mean that a substantial userbase would make the Cafe the lead platform.

 

[Amir0x]

I agree that it's a terrible system, but your first argument is really flawed. You say that it took you an hour to input all your Neogaf friends. That has nothing to do with Nintendo using Friendcodes instead of usernames. It has only to do with the fact that there's no friend request notification. Nevermind the fact that inputting any kind of text or numbers is infinitely faster on a touchscreen than on a 360 pad.

Imputting a string of numbers takes as much time as inputting a string of letters. The problem is that both parties have to do it, and that nobody is going to remember 12 digit numbers.

There are plenty of arguments why friendcodes suck without having to come up with fake ones.

No, it took so long because I had to keep glancing back at the paper every five seconds because remembering 12 digits numbers is infinitely harder than remembering a fucking regular nickname.

Yes, it is ALSO difficult because of the invites - that's a similarly massive issue - but there's no getting around that numbers are worse than nicknames.

 

[Darryl]

At his point, the technology does not exist to make an affordable console that drastically outperforms the current generation of consoles in the same way that previous console generations have outperformed their predecessors. That being the case, MS and Sony will play the waiting game. I believe the rumor that their consoles won't come out until 2014. And when they come out, they'll be 4 to 500 dollar graphical powerhouses sold at a loss, and will be quite noticeably superior to the Cafe graphically.

I remember seeing this article lately talking about how Microsoft might not willing to accept such huge losses on their next console. I don't know how credible it is, but I'm just finding it hard to believe that they're willing to lose that much money again. Just by looking at google trends, it makes me feel like Microsoft is bleeding on the inside.

 

[linko9]

The problem is that you can't simply put a super powerful PC GPU into a console and it'll work.
You need one that is low power consumption, thus runs cooler, or you get a situation worse than the 360's RROD.
As it stands, the 6000 line really doesn't fit that bill, and it doesn't look to as of now.
But even then, if they DID go with a GPU in the 6000 line that could theoretically work in a console without melting, that would still put a 4770 within their range. Just enough that the Cafe would still get (albeit toned down) ports. And with a year or two head start, this could mean that a substantial userbase would make the Cafe the lead platform.

Well, it that's true, this will end up being a very interesting console generation indeed. I can't see how many people are going to justify purchasing a new console when their current one can already give them the graphics of Uncharted 3 or Gears 3, even if the new one could run the Samaritan demo (which, from what it sounds like, it couldn't come close to doing). It's just not as drastic or obvious an advancement as with past generational gaps. I think Nintendo's decision to keep the Wii low-spec is looking pretty smart right now, because their new console will sure as hell look a lot better than their current one even to the most uninformed consumer.

EDIT: very interesting article indeed, Darryl. I was under the impression that the 360 ended up being quite profitable for MS, but it sounds like it really wasn't.

 

[BY2K]

Oh man, I remember that. The -1 Lag jokes were raining.

Back on topic, last year, the 3DS was rising from the ground when it was revealed before Iwata walked on stage like a pimp. How will the Cafe be revealed this year?

 

[AceBandage]

Oh man, I remember that. The -1 Lag jokes were raining.

Back on topic, last year, the 3DS was rising from the ground when it was revealed before Iwata walked on stage like a pimp. How will the Cafe be revealed this year?

Well, the major feature is the controller.
It sounds like it'll be too big to be in Reggie's pocket, so either Iwata will carry it out or do like with the 3DS.

 

[MisterHero]

It will rise from a sleek coffee table whilst the cast of The View drinks coffee

 

[antonz]

I remember seeing this article lately talking about how Microsoft might not willing to accept such huge losses on their next console. I don't know how credible it is, but I'm just finding it hard to believe that they're willing to lose that much money again. Just by looking at google trends, it makes me feel like Microsoft is bleeding on the inside.

I could see Microsoft going this route and I think it would work wonders for them. The article ends on a flawed premise though. They speculate if Microsoft went this route like Nintendo it means Sony gets to dominate.

If 2/3 of consoles go in a particular direction that is the direction the industry would go. a MS/Nintendo relatively equal set of consoles would mean Sony is the odd one out even if more powerful and would thus not be the priority.

 

[AceBandage]

It will rise from a sleek coffee table whilst the cast of The View drinks coffee

Bleh. No, make it The Talk. At least they have a semi interesting cast.

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

Conference threads which shard off as new stuff is introduced. But mainly it is lots of refreshing.

Sounds like you better look into NeoGAF LIVE & Autopager

Autopager lets you just keep scrolling down until you reach the last post.
Now you can scroll through 1000post without ever having to click the next button or the page number. (Who needs 100ppp when you have Autopager? It's all 1 page from where you start)

NeoGAF LIVE keeps refreshing the page for you and adds any new post at the bottom of the screen. If it reaches the last post on the page, it will automatically load the next page for your and post it at the bottom of the page (just like autopager).

They compliment each other very well.
Works on both Firefox & Chrome

 

[dkeane]

So has there been any rumors of nintendo partnering with onlive? They have a strong online infrastructure and have plenty of experience with streaming content.

I doubt it but with Nintendo nothing would surprise me.

 

[Anth0ny]

Sounds like you better look into NeoGAF LIVE & Autopager

Autopager lets you just keep scrolling down until you reach the last post.
Now you can scroll through 1000post without ever having to click the next button or the page number. (Who needs 100ppp when you have Autopager? It's all 1 page from where you start)

NeoGAF LIVE keeps refreshing the page for you and adds any new post at the bottom of the screen. If it reaches the last post on the page, it will automatically load the next page for your and post it at the bottom of the page (just like autopager).

They compliment each other very well.
Works on both Firefox & Chrome

That's all well and good.

But nothing can stop the inevitable guru meditation.

 

[ntropy]

Oh man, I remember that. The -1 Lag jokes were raining.

Back on topic, last year, the 3DS was rising from the ground when it was revealed before Iwata walked on stage like a pimp. How will the Cafe be revealed this year?

Iwata will emerge from the stage with a forklift that carries the Cafe controller.

 

[AceBandage]

Iwata will emerge from the stage with a forklift that carries the Cafe controller.

New Shenmue game?!

 

[guek]

Well, it that's true, this will end up being a very interesting console generation indeed. I can't see how many people are going to justify purchasing a new console when their current one can already give them the graphics of Uncharted 3 or Gears 3, even if the new one could run the Samaritan demo (which, from what it sounds like, it couldn't come close to doing). It's just not as drastic or obvious an advancement as with past generational gaps. I think Nintendo's decision to keep the Wii low-spec is looking pretty smart right now, because their new console will sure as hell look a lot better than their current one even to the most uninformed consumer.

EDIT: very interesting article indeed, Darryl. I was under the impression that the 360 ended up being quite profitable for MS, but it sounds like it really wasn't.

I guarantee what will happen is console manufactures will begin to accept that the rate of diminishing returns and the high cost of constantly evolving tech makes having beastly machines no longer cost effective. It's also really not what the majority of the market craves at this point. PCs have always pulled ahead of consoles in power but from here on out, it's going to be pretty much impossible for consoles to keep up.

But since the vast majority of people will be satisfied with 1080p games running at 60fps, consoles wont be required to be so cutting edge anyway. We'll still get hardware refreshes from time to time, but don't expect them to deliver anything graphically that the PC hadn't already done years prior.

 

[BY2K]

NeoGAF LIVE keeps refreshing the page for you and adds any new post at the bottom of the screen. If it reaches the last post on the page, it will automatically load the next page for your and post it at the bottom of the page (just like autopager).

Where do I put the crx file?

 

[ace3skoot]

So has there been any rumors of nintendo partnering with onlive? They have a strong online infrastructure and have plenty of experience with streaming content.

I doubt it but with Nintendo nothing would surprise me.

This would be an extremely best case scenario, Iwata has talked recently about Nintendo relying on themselves for everything was not viable in the future, lets hope he isn't just talking about advertisement and PR the money hatting of steam with cross platform content is the future man...the future

Right now I would settle for launch date PSN from Nintendo as good prognosis I so hope to be wrong though. Very wrong...god if its anything like the Wii's online I would seriously have to consider ignoring this console...I must fight my inner Nintendo whore for the good of the industry

 

[linko9]

This would be an extremely best case scenario, Iwata has talked recently about Nintendo relying on themselves for everything was not viable in the future, lets hope he isn't just talking about advertisement and PR the money hatting of steam with cross platform content is the future man...the future

Right now I would settle for launch date PSN from Nintendo as good prognosis I so hope to be wrong though. Very wrong...god if its anything like the Wii's online I would seriously have to consider ignoring this console...I must fight my inner Nintendo whore for the good of the industry

Yes, but he's also made some pretty disparaging comments about cloud-based gaming recently. And I don't blame him; the infrastructure is nowhere near ready in either Japan or the States, not to mention on a global level. And imagine if this recent PSN outage meant you couldn't play any games at all while the network was down. Nintendo experimenting with cloud-based gaming won't happen any time soon.

 

[AceBandage]

This would be an extremely best case scenario, Iwata has talked recently about Nintendo relying on themselves for everything was not viable in the future, lets hope he isn't just talking about advertisement and PR the money hatting of steam with cross platform content is the future man...the future

Right now I would settle for launch date PSN from Nintendo as good prognosis I so hope to be wrong though. Very wrong...god if its anything like the Wii's online I would seriously have to consider ignoring this console...I must fight my inner Nintendo whore for the good of the industry

Worst case scenario is that it's like the 3DS's online, which is miles ahead of the Wii's and fully upgradeable.

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

Where do I put the crx file?

I think you need Grease monkey for NeoGaf specific add-ons like NeoGaf Live.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I hope we get some good tech-demos in addition to all the games that'll be shown. Even if Nintendo doesn't release concrete specs, demos will give us a good idea of what Cafe is capable of, obviously.

 

[TunaLover]

Jerry Seinfeld, what are you doing there?

 

[brochiller]

I hope we get some good tech-demos in addition to all the games that'll be shown. Even if Nintendo doesn't release concrete specs, demos will give us a good idea of what Cafe is capable of, obviously.

I think the playable games will give us a good idea of what the Cafe will be capable of. Tech demos just give us false hope.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I think the playable games will give us a good idea of what the Cafe will be capable of. Tech demos just give us false hope.

I still love tech-demos. I mean real-time ones.

 

[From The Dust]

I still love tech-demos. I mean real-time ones.

those real time ones are still scripted though. see the new Tri-Ace tech demo. it's running on real time, but chances are, if you play it, your frame rate goes straight to hell

 

[Kid Icarus]

I think the playable games will give us a good idea of what the Cafe will be capable of. Tech demos just give us false hope.

I don't think N is really one to release unrealistic demos or overstate the power of their console. I think N is more inclined, based on my recollections of their previous console presentations / announcements, to understate the abilities of their consoles to an extent.

 

[NeonZ]

I must fight my inner Nintendo whore for the good of the industry

But the good of the industry would be no online focus at all. Well, at least, for actual gameplay... Seriously, online, even in a best case scenario, still means significantly longer loading times, inconsistent connection speeds and the possibility of connection drops.

I don't see why it has become such a desirable feature when it's objectively worse than local play in every aspect. The standard conditions of online play would be unacceptable for an offline game most of the time, so people basically just turn a blind eye to those problems in order to enjoy online.

 

[BY2K]

But the good of the industry would be no online focus at all. Well, at least, for actual gameplay... Seriously, online, even in a best case scenario, still means significantly longer loading times, inconsistent connection speeds and the possibility of connection drops.

I don't see why it has become such a desirable feature when it's objectively worse than local play in every aspect.

Because you can play with people from around the world?

 

[AceBandage]

But the good of the industry would be no online focus at all. Well, at least, for actual gameplay... Seriously, online, even in a best case scenario, still means significantly longer loading times, inconsistent connection speeds and the possibility of connection drops.

I don't see why it has become such a desirable feature when it's objectively worse than local play in every aspect.

Convenience, mostly. It's the same reason why, despite the telephone being invented over a hundred years earlier, we now use primarily text to communicate through the world.
Worse in every way, but it's easier and quicker.

With online gaming, you can find an opponent at pretty much any moment and of any skill. You can organize giant battles or simple one on one fights.

It is a shame that local and split screen are becoming relegated to mostly a niche, but that is progress.

 

[bgassassin]

Well, the major feature is the controller.
It sounds like it'll be too big to be in Reggie's pocket, so either Iwata will carry it out or do like with the 3DS.

Iwata will come out with the lights off like he did when he revealed the Revolution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69vFDd6PRpc#t=04m09s

 

[NeonZ]

With online gaming, you can find an opponent at pretty much any moment and of any skill. You can organize giant battles or simple one on one fights.

But in an environment that objectively is worse than the one of offline game. Or, at least, should be worse.

It really irritates me when games offer content that is only accessible in online modes, basically crippling off line play in an attempt to make people use online...

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I don't think N is really one to release unrealistic demos or overstate the power of their console. I think N is more inclined, based on my recollections of their previous console presentations / announcements, to understate the abilities of their consoles to an extent.

Metroid Spaceworld 2000 demo says hi

 

[Akai]

Metroid Spaceworld 2000 demo says hi

But Metroid Prime looks BETTER than that...

 

[Mithos]

No, it took so long because I had to keep glancing back at the paper every five seconds because remembering 12 digits numbers is infinitely harder than remembering a fucking regular nickname.

As long as Nintendo doesn't lock the freaking gamertag like on PSN/XBL, they can do their system whatever way you "Amir0x" see fit.

If I can't be PLAIN "Mithos" on the Wii2 gamertag-system then fail, PSN = "OCCUPIED TRY ANOTHER", XBL = "OCCUPIED TRY ANOTHER".

Took me 4 hours to make a PSN-ID because "Mithos" was occupied and I had to sit down and write down all possible tags I could be "ok" with, and then organize them in what order I would be most "ok" to have, and then go through each and everyone until a free one allowed me to register. Ohh and.. the PSN-ID I finally ended up with, guess what, XBL = "OCCUPIED TRY ANOTHER", gaaah!!!

And that's why I personally "defend" friend codes, because it will let me be plain "Mithos", IF Nintendo actually improves the gamertag-system, it better be different then PSN and XBL and more like Steam, where your account and the "shown gamertag" can be different.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

But Metroid Prime looks BETTER than that...

In some ways maybe, in other ways, no way.

 

[Amir0x]

As long as Nintendo doesn't lock the freaking gamertag like on PSN/XBL, they can do their system whatever way you "Amir0x" see fit.

If I can't be PLAIN "Mithos" on the Wii2 gamertag-system then fail, PSN = "OCCUPIED TRY ANOTHER", XBL = "OCCUPIED TRY ANOTHER".

Took me 4 hours to make a PSN-ID because "Mithos" was occupied and I had to sit down and write down all possible tags I could be "ok" with, and then organize them in what order I would be most "ok" to have, and then go through each and everyone until a free one allowed me to register. Ohh and.. the PSN-ID I finally ended up with, guess what, XBL = "OCCUPIED TRY ANOTHER", gaaah!!!

And that's why I personally "defend" friend codes, because it will let me be plain "Mithos", IF Nintendo actually improves the gamertag-system, it better be different then PSN and XBL and more like Steam, where your account and the "shown gamertag" can be different.

I prefer when multiple people can't use the same nick. Time to get more creative if you're literally spending more than five seconds thinking about a nick because you can't use whatever painfully unimaginative nickname you'd like

But, in any event, you do not need horrendous friend codes to allow multiple use of the same nicks and so it's a poor argument for friend codes by default. And I agree they should have the option for multiple nicks because hey I like options. Just not with friend codes.

 

[abstract alien]

In some ways maybe, in other ways, no way.

Didn't it only run at like 30fps? Prime's frame rate is double what the tech demo had, and thats with better visuals overall. What was unrealistic about it?