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[Amir0x]

If I can be excused for reverting to the Sunshine topic--

Really, we're working off of such thin information right now that it's probably ok to discuss Mario and other Nintendo franchise variations and the directions we'd like to see as it applies to how it might end up on Stream.

Imo it's not really off topic

 

[butter_stick]

F Zero is off topic, on account of it being a dead franchise Nintendo have no faith in

 

[HYDE]

It is interesting to look at the FLUDDless levels as being a precursor to Mario Galaxy. I liked those levels more than the rest too.


But the setting is not dull. Delfino is full of character and fun. There were only a few stages that felt boring and that was mostly because of the relaxing Hawaiian music in the background. What iteration of the mushroom kingdom are you talking about though because to me the mushroom kingdom is basically your stock grass, water, desert area. Its not really a unified setting or a place that feels lived in or "real" like Delfino.

I was just wondering if anyone got the chance to play the challenge levels in Treasure's
Wario World. I thought they were just like the FLUDD-less levels of SMSS, and great.
It's also funny how a lot of the bosses played just like Super Mario 64 also.

 

[maeda]

Sunshine is in many ways still the best 3D platformer ever. The verticality of certain levels remains unchallenged even by both Galaxy games. Nothing can compare to climbing high above Bianco Hills using the ropes set up. Traveling across the lakes using the leafs and the FLUDD is awesome. Getting the floor wet and then sliding on your belly is so pleasurable. It is totally the precursor to my beloved Ice sliding. Plus the controls are extremely sensitive and Mario is very jumpy. At the end of the day Sunshine is the 3D Mario in which it is easiest to pull the back flip, which is my favorite Mario move.

 

[Lupin the Third]

If you're looking for summer music this website has got you covered.http://www.thebitblock.com/
Its a site that covers Nintendo exclusively, the guy who runs it is a total, unapologetic Nintendo fanboy. But they started a new podcast and the first episode is all about summer themed music that has appeared on Nintendo platforms including a few tracks from Sunshine. Its a real fun listen.

The head guy on TheBitBlock (formerly WiiFolder) posts frequently in the comments on the banned Nintendo blog site, and he does not always come across as a "pro-Nintendo" kind of guy. He sometimes comes across like a troll.
EDIT: (Of course, now that I go looking for trollish comments by him, I can't really find any. Oh well, take it for whatever it's worth, which probably isn't much.)

With Sunshine, I think they did a great job trying something new and experimental, both with the Secret areas and with the "tropical" theme. People burned Nintendo for it, so they took the feedback and ran with it. Inevitably, some people loved what Sunshine offered and others didn't. I really enjoyed Sunshine and 100%-ed the game, but it's definitely no Galaxy. The music alone is leagues better. I would say that, up to this point, Galaxy is the way to make a Mario game in 3D, hands down. Fewer camera problems, great music, tight controls and a delightful mix of linearity and "explorability" in the level designs. Sunshine certainly had its own merits, and I enjoyed it but I have difficulty going back and playing Sunshine after Galaxy. It just doesn't feel as "tight."

 

[nincompoop]

Nintendo really needs to bring back the spin jump from Sunshine into future 3D Marios. That was pretty easily the best move in any of the 3D Mario games. It covered a ton of ground both horizontally and vertically, and it actually required skill to use effectively unlike the crappy overpowered long jump. It was also great for immediately comboing into a triple jump.

 

[maeda]

Nintendo really needs to bring back the spin jump from Sunshine into future 3D Marios. That was pretty easily the best move in any of the 3D Mario games. It covered a ton of ground both horizontally and vertically, and it actually required skill to use effectively unlike the crappy overpowered long jump. It was also great for immediately comboing into a triple jump.

But long jump lets you orbit small planetoids for an infinite amount of time using Luigi !!!

 

[watershed]

Nintendo really needs to bring back the spin jump from Sunshine into future 3D Marios. That was pretty easily the best move in any of the 3D Mario games. It covered a ton of ground both horizontally and vertically, and it actually required skill to use effectively unlike the crappy overpowered long jump. It was also great for immediately comboing into a triple jump.

You don't like the long jump? Its a great jump because it really let's you do the "let's see how fast I can get through this level thing". What I love about it is that if you long jump correctly you can pass up all the little helping hands Nintendo puts between you and the star. Long jumping thru a level is like a challenge, I may die but it will be fun as hell. I suppose though you may consider that overpowered?

 

[watershed]

At the end of the day Sunshine is the 3D Mario in which it is easiest to pull the back flip, which is my favorite Mario move.

You had me considering your argument up until this point. Correct me if I'm wrong but in sushine didn't you have to spray first in order to backflip? Or are you talking about the side somersault?

 

[Darryl]

How do you guys feel about the possibility of Retro Studios working on a new Eternal Darkness? I was a big fan of the first Eternal Darkness on Gamecube (although that game has aged terribly) With the recent success of Amnesia showing that people are still very interested in the survival-horror genre, I don't think it would be a bad time to release a nice well-funded horror game. I think with Retro Studios's attention to detail, they would be a nice fit too.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Long jump breaks the game, and I love it for it.

Whenever I've watched my buddies play Galaxy they always play very slowly, and die quite a bit. So I think the difficulty is actually quite high for this game for the average person.

When you start to use the long jump the game really opens up. Perfect controls.

 

[maeda]

You had me considering your argument up until this point. Correct me if I'm wrong but in sushine didn't you have to spray first in order to backflip? Or are you talking about the side somersault?

I was talking about the side somersault. Just checked Mario wiki.
What I would love to see in the next Mario is more manageable StarMan controls. It is awesome to just keep on running and getting super fast, but at the same time it is very difficult to judge your jumps while using Starman. That is one area where 2D Mario games just destroy the 3D ones.

 

[nincompoop]

You don't like the long jump? Its a great jump because it really let's you do the "let's see how fast I can get through this level thing". What I love about it is that if you long jump correctly you can pass up all the little helping hands Nintendo puts between you and the star. Long jumping thru a level is like a challenge, I may die but it will be fun as hell. I suppose though you may consider that overpowered?

Well it's good if you just want to speed run through levels I guess, but Mario's moveset in Sunshine let you cover a similar amount of ground just as quickly. (Try doing a sideflip and immediately diving.) I just don't like the amount of control they give you over it, it takes a lot of the challenge out of the precision-based platforming.

 

[watershed]

I was talking about the side somersault. Just checked Mario wiki.

ah, okay. Well I think its the exact same controls for that jump in the galaxies and sunshine. Its a great jump but I don't recall it being easier to do in sunshine. On the topic of jumping I wonder what new acrobatic skill mario will gain in his cafe outing. I'm thinking a pure jumping move not something tied to an accessory like FLUDD or star kid for spinning.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Well it's good if you just want to speed run through levels I guess, but Mario's moveset in Sunshine let you cover a similar amount of ground just as quickly. (Try doing a sideflip and immediately diving.) I just don't like the amount of control they give you over it, it takes a lot of the challenge out of the precision-based platforming.

I really think speedrunning the levels using a combo of wall jumps, spins and long jumps is the best way to play Galaxy. The levels seem to be built with the more advanced jumps in mind, as the game never really loses the flow.

But to each his own.

 

[maeda]

I feel so stupid, I have just found that player could do a back flip in Donkey Kong 94. Shame on me.

 

[EatChildren]

How do you guys feel about the possibility of Retro Studios working on a new Eternal Darkness? I was a big fan of the first Eternal Darkness on Gamecube (although that game has aged terribly) With the recent success of Amnesia showing that people are still very interested in the survival-horror genre, I don't think it would be a bad time to release a nice well-funded horror game. I think with Retro Studios's attention to detail, they would be a nice fit too.

Zelda Informer have no contacts, and are a full of shit. The Eternal Darkness IP is still in Silicon Knight's court, not Nintendo's.

 

[maeda]

Zelda Informer have no contacts, and are a full of shit. The Eternal Darkness IP is still in Silicon Knight's court, not Nintendo's.

Since when ED is a SK property? Have they bought it out from Nintendo?

 

[Man God]

Nintendo owns the publishing rights for ED, the name, and the patent for the sanity system....

 

[Darryl]

The Eternal Darkness IP is still in Silicon Knight's court, not Nintendo's.

I was under the impression that Nintendo still owned it.

http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=77932350

 

[Zeal]

My favorite theme from Sunshine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dJpAs9-kPU

My favorite theme from Sunshine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QahzbgUVwk

Spoiler

lol

 

[KevinCow]

Zelda Informer have no contacts, and are a full of shit. The Eternal Darkness IP is still in Silicon Knight's court, not Nintendo's.

Pretty sure it's Nintendo's. With rare exceptions, like if it's preexisting franchise, Nintendo likes to own the IPs that they publish.

 

[EatChildren]

Last I heard Dyack said the ownership was complicated.

Either way, Zelda Informer dont know shit and you'd be best paying them no attention when it comes to these things.

 

[Lupin the Third]

Pretty sure it's Nintendo's. With rare exceptions, like if it's preexisting franchise, Nintendo likes to own the IPs that they publish.

something Perfect Dark something pun something

 

[Man God]

something Perfect Dark something pun something

Nintendo did actually have either all or almost all of those rights, they just sold them lock stock and barrel with their interest in Rare.

 

[Lupin the Third]

Nintendo did actually have either all or almost all of those rights, they just sold them lock stock and barrel with their interest in Rare.

Oh, yup, now that you mention it, I do remember those details. Any of their own from-scratch IPs, they kept.

I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo has retained publishing rights and/or code rights to Eternal Darkness 1, but SK retains some rights to IP and characters, possibly obtained when they left their second-party status. Maybe they can't make an ED2 without working with Nintendo due to split ownership....?

 

[dwu8991]

Sunshine is in many ways still the best 3D platformer ever. The verticality of certain levels remains unchallenged even by both Galaxy games. Nothing can compare to climbing high above Bianco Hills using the ropes set up. Traveling across the lakes using the leafs and the FLUDD is awesome. Getting the floor wet and then sliding on your belly is so pleasurable. It is totally the precursor to my beloved Ice sliding. Plus the controls are extremely sensitive and Mario is very jumpy. At the end of the day Sunshine is the 3D Mario in which it is easiest to pull the back flip, which is my favorite Mario move.

Well it beats Banjo-kazooie that's for sure!

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

ED 2 releasing January 2013 exclusively for Cafe. Believe.

 

[shouamabane]

My favorite theme from Sunshine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dJpAs9-kPU

That one was the best.

 

[Amir0x]

How do you guys feel about the possibility of Retro Studios working on a new Eternal Darkness? I was a big fan of the first Eternal Darkness on Gamecube (although that game has aged terribly) With the recent success of Amnesia showing that people are still very interested in the survival-horror genre, I don't think it would be a bad time to release a nice well-funded horror game. I think with Retro Studios's attention to detail, they would be a nice fit too.

that was discussed like five hundred pages ago and it's 100% false with no chance of happening.

In the universe of "WHAT IF", though, I feel that if Retro did mystically get to work on something like this, they'd probably have a much better shot at it not being an abysmal failure than Silicon Knights had. I bet Retro could actually make a GOOD survival horror game, instead of an almost comically awful gimmick-based one like SK created.

 

[Eteric Rice]

that was discussed like five hundred pages ago and it's 100% false with no chance of happening.

In the universe of "WHAT IF", though, I feel that if Retro did mystically get to work on something like this, they'd probably have a much better shot at it not being an abysmal failure than Silicon Knights had. I bet Retro could actually make a GOOD survival horror game, instead of an almost comically awful gimmick-based one like SK created.

Retro can make a good anything.

Retro is awesome.

 

[zoukka]

Playing DKCR for the first time yesterday, I now know that Retro studios can pull off any franchise ever.

God tier.

 

[Caramello]

I kind of doubt Nintendo would want to waste Retro Studios on a game with minimal appeal and in a genre where they would receive a good amount of support from their bum-buddies in Capcom.

I'm honestly hoping Retro Studios are working on a new IP with a focus on competitive and co-operative multi-player. Either way, I can't wait to see what they're working on.. I expect a reveal at E3 next year with a launch in late 2013.

 

[Mithos]

Do you guys use the same nickname for everything online related? Forums... blogs... Live... PSN... etc...

Pretty much yes, and I try to keep it as short as possible too, I didn't use to have the same nickname when I was younger, but switched changed had multiple once at the same time.

 

[Amir0x]

Retro can make a good anything.

Retro is awesome.

not Donkey Kong Country, unfortunately. But I forgive them for that since I doubt anybody could make that into something good

*tee hee*

 

[Darryl]

that was discussed like five hundred pages ago and it's 100% false with no chance of happening.

Sorry I went back pretty far in the thread initially, I must've not went back far enough. :/

I kind of doubt Nintendo would want to waste Retro Studios on a game with minimal appeal and in a genre where they would receive a good amount of support from their bum-buddies in Capcom.

The original ED did pretty well and co-existed fine with all of the Resident Evil games on the GCN. If it's true that Nintendo is going after an older audience with this console, it would make sense for them to fund a game that people might think of as being a mature game. They can do that in many ways, though. I'd be fine with Retro going after some new IPs. A FPS with a nice multiplayer focus would be nice.

 

[EVH]

not Donkey Kong Country, unfortunately. But I forgive them for that since I doubt anybody could make that into something good

*tee hee*

DKC:Returns is awesome.

Would love to see a Retro's DKC in HD, full of details and all that shit for Cafe. Obviously with some kind of coop mode and more pirates.

But if they're working on something different, I'm going to still love them. Sometimes I feel the need of sending a email to them, like I do with gaben, just to tell them how awesome they are, but fuck, i'm never able to find where to send it.

 

[Instro]

not Donkey Kong Country, unfortunately. But I forgive them for that since I doubt anybody could make that into something good

*tee hee*

Saw that coming, you never pass up the opportunity to get a dig in at DKC. Someone should really do something cool with the DK series though, like a Mirrors Edge style fps where you swing around the jungle and shit.

 

[Amir0x]

Saw that coming, you never pass up the opportunity to get a dig in at DKC. Someone should really do something cool with the DK series though, like a Mirrors Edge style fps where you swing around the jungle and shit.

It's just that DKC is so bad that i hate the idea of Retro sitting around wasting their immense talent tinkering at the DKCountry concept to make it the least bad thing it can be and being hopelessly frustrated at every turn because of how broken the foundation is.

I want them to make a new hardcore IP to kick off the Stream gen. Really go fresh and wild with the added power and technology they'll have at their disposal. Metroid Prime III is still one of the best looking Wii games, if not the best 3D Wii game, so I can't imagine what they'll do with the extra texture detail alone. They did some massively impressive things with the texture detail in MP III considering the limitations of the platform. it's going to be incredible to see what Retro comes up with.

 

[Chittagong]

So there hasn't been any more legit leaks? Pretty much confirms that the opening of the floodgates was sanctioned by Nintendo, which means the particular facts they chose to let loose are key to their positioning of the new console.

 

[Amir0x]

So there hasn't been any more legit leaks? Pretty much confirms that the opening of the floodgates was sanctioned by Nintendo, which means the particular facts they chose to let loose are key to their positioning of the new console.

Only leak that might be legit is the one Kotaku posted about the 8GB Flash memory inside instead of a HDD, but who knows. Everything is blurring together at this point

 

[Graphics Horse]

Well I guess there is still hope for a secod scheduled leak for the upcoming NPD day.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Is there a reason why Capcom wouldn't also want Monster Hunter to go multi-plat? I was under the impression it was one of their more successful franchises. Seems like something that could also sell on PS3 and 360, no?

Spoiler

Or PC.

They do sell Monster Hunter Frontier Online for X360 in Japan.

 

[Wallach]

not Donkey Kong Country, unfortunately. But I forgive them for that since I doubt anybody could make that into something good

*tee hee*

Haha, this is basically how I feel DKC. I hope Retro gets to quickly move on and forget it happened.

 

[linko9]

Back to the 3D mario discussion: I don't want to sound like a dick, but Galaxy and Galaxy 2 were far too easy. And I know for a fact that I'm not much (if at all) better at the games than the average gamer: my death count in Galaxy 2 was in the high 300s after all 242 stars, which seems to be about what most people had (though many of those were intentional in order to collect star bits... that really bugged me). But there were really only about 4 or 5 stars in the entire game that really felt challenging (thank god for that final galaxy). I understand why the game has to be easy up to the point where you fight the final boss, but after that, it needs to go all Lost Levels on yo ass. I was bothered to the point of anger by the fact that reviewers constantly mentioned the game's "crushing difficulty" or some such nonsense. Yes, I understand that Mario games have never been the most difficult platformers, but every mainline Mario game up to Galaxy was at least to some degree more difficult. Don't get me wrong, the Galaxy games are two of my favorite games of this generation, but I would have had a much better time with the games if I felt challenged more than a handful of times.

I wish that I could get the feeling of accomplishment I got from completing the missions in GX in a Mario game. And yes, GX is the best racing game of all time, and while I try to not care about sales, I get pretty pissed every time I remember how poorly that game sold. You can talk about your "hardcore gamers" all you want, but in a world where F-Zero GX doesn't come close to selling a quarter-million, that term seems laughable (yeah, this is an overreaction, I know, but I take my Captain Falcon seriously (Forever he will be my hero... and not just only for tonight (lol))).

So yeah, in conclusion, keep those 2D Marios easy so they can keep selling 25 million, and crank up the difficulty on the 3D ones.

 

[EatChildren]

Any issues people might have with Rare's DKC are completely irrelevant in the shadow of Retro's glorious DKCR. It's a shame some people here have such disgusting broken taste, but hey, c'est la vie.

And I'm banking on the 8GB flash storage rumour, because it is Nintendo to a T.

 

[Amir0x]

Back to the 3D mario discussion: I don't want to sound like a dick, but Galaxy and Galaxy 2 were far too easy. And I know for a fact that I'm not much (if at all) better at the games than the average gamer: my death count in Galaxy 2 was in the high 300s after all 242 stars, which seems to be about what most people had (though many of those were intentional in order to collect star bits... that really bugged me). But there were really only about 4 or 5 stars in the entire game that really felt challenging (thank god for that final galaxy). I understand why the game has to be easy up to the point where you fight the final boss, but after that, it needs to go all Lost Levels on yo ass. I was bothered to the point of anger by the fact that reviewers constantly mentioned the game's "crushing difficulty" or some such nonsense. Yes, I understand that Mario games have never been the most difficult platformers, but every mainline Mario game up to Galaxy was at least to some degree more difficult. Don't get me wrong, the Galaxy games are two of my favorite games of this generation, but I would have had a much better time with the games if I felt challenged more than a handful of times.

Galaxy 1 maybe, but I don't think Galaxy 2 is out of line with the rest of the series difficulty whatsoever. The other Mario games seem exactly as easy as Galaxy 2.

I personally think these games are more like gentle difficulty curve, not really difficult but with enough resistance to give you that cradling satisfaction from conquering the game anyhow. As long as you reach that point, the amazing gameplay and mechanics should do the rest. I definitely think Galaxy 1 and 2 were in that window, with Galaxy 2 obviously being the most perfectly executed.

I wish that I could get the feeling of accomplishment I got from completing the missions in GX in a Mario game. And yes, GX is the best racing game of all time, and while I try to not care about sales, I get pretty pissed every time I remember how poorly that game sold. You can talk about your "hardcore gamers" all you want, but in a world where F-Zero GX doesn't come close to selling a quarter-million, that term seems laughable (yeah, this is an overreaction, I know, but I take my Captain Falcon seriously (Forever he will be my hero... and not just only for tonight (lol))).

No doubt man. F-Zero GX is a god tier title. Every other racing game cowers in its presence. Hell, most other games period run away at its insane quality.

It had a sick track count. An unbelievable number of vehicles all with legitimate ups and downs to using them, all of them being completely viable on all difficulties if you're good enough. It had a hilariously unique single player story mode. It had incredible polish and shine - the character bios and their associated character bio music was phenomenal. It has insane, tempo-racing music that remains among the best racing music in the industry, right there with Ridge Racer and Wipeout. It singularly has the greatest track design of any racing game. We're talking tracks so finely designed that if you play a track a hundred times you will likely still be finding ways to shave a hundredth of a second off your time with just a slight alteration to your rhythm, boost strategy or vehicle trajectory.

I cannot praise F-Zero GX enough. It is the ultimate refinement of the arcade racing game.

 

[EatChildren]

Stop praising F-Zero GX. All it does is remind me that no F-Zero will ever come close to it's brilliance.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

And I'm banking on the 8GB flash storage rumour, because it is Nintendo to a T.

I will go fucking apeshit if that's true. There won't be a single upright table in three square miles.

 

[Electivirus]

I've never played an F-Zero game, myself. The series never really caught my interest, and it doesn't help that I'm not too big on racers in general. Never touched a racing game that doesn't have "Mario Kart" in the title.