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Wii 2 (Project Cafe): Officially Announced, Playable At E3, Launching 2012 [Updated]

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Instro

Member
Amir0x said:
It's just that DKC is so bad that i hate the idea of Retro sitting around wasting their immense talent tinkering at the DKCountry concept to make it the least bad thing it can be and being hopelessly frustrated at every turn because of how broken the foundation is.

While I dont agree that DKC is bad, obviously, I do think that their talents are wasted on a 2.5D platformer. Thats not a hard game to make in terms of gameplay mechanics, they are better suited for something on a grander scale. Regardless, w.e their first Cafe title is I really doubt it will be DKCR2, DKCR only just released late last year theres no way they werent already working on their Cafe title by that point.

EatChildren said:
Any issues people might have with Rare's DKC are completely irrelevant in the shadow of Retro's glorious DKCR. It's a shame some people here have such disgusting broken taste, but hey, c'est la vie.

And I'm banking on the 8GB flash storage rumour, because it is Nintendo to a T.

The internal flash being 8GB is believable, but if SD cards are the only way to expand storage a lot of people are going to be pissed.
 

AniHawk

Member
i wonder what dkcr would have been like if they were allowed to make a fresh dk platformer ala dkjb. regardless, i'd love for them to make something on their own, without being shackled to an older series.

Instro said:
While I dont agree with that DKC is bad, obviously, I do think that their talents are wasted on a 2.5D platformer. Thats not a hard game to make in terms of gameplay mechanics, they are better suited for something on a grander scale. Regardless, w.e their first Cafe title is I really doubt it will be DKCR2, DKCR only just released late last year theres no way they werent already working on their Cafe title by that point.

i look at it this way: i've been playing 2d platformers for over 20 years now. i've played so many of them that with each new one, it becomes harder and harder to surprise me with good level design. if there's a company out there that really wants to challenge themselves and show their worth as designers, make an excellent 2d platformer.
 

EDarkness

Member
Chittagong said:
So there hasn't been any more legit leaks? Pretty much confirms that the opening of the floodgates was sanctioned by Nintendo, which means the particular facts they chose to let loose are key to their positioning of the new console.

It's been pretty dry the last couple of weeks. I was hoping something would break after the initial announcement, but things have been quiet. I doubt we'll get anything before E3 at the current rate.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Instro said:
The internal flash being 8GB is believable, but if SD cards are the only way to expand storage a lot of people are going to be pissed.

I'm so confident that expandable storage will be limited to flash cards I'd almost bet my account on it.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Anihawk said:
i wonder what dkcr would have been like if they were allowed to make a fresh dk platformer ala dkjb. regardless, i'd love for them to make something on their own, without being shackled to an older series.


Yeah, Retro can't help how bad the foundation they had to work with was. I mean, to their credit, it still was a relatively pretty-for-Wii game that really stood out in Dolphin from the Dolphin pics I saw. In action, though, the only levels worth a damn were those temple stages and even those were helplessly stuck on the unreliable enemy hit detection/bouncing gameplay or the hideously broken shake-to-roll mechanic. Or the game was too busy being bogged down by an ENTIRE WORLD of trial-and-error garbage mine cart stages.

Jungle Beat eviscerates the DKC series singlehandedly, that much is true. Would have rather them take the jump from that series.

I'm with you, though, new IP for Retro on Stream PLEASE


Electivirus said:
I've never played an F-Zero game, myself. The series never really caught my interest, and it doesn't help that I'm not too big on racers in general. Never touched a racing game that doesn't have "Mario Kart" in the title.

Imagine a game where the racing vehicles move so fast that your face melts as you play it. Now imagine while you're going at these speeds, you're having to calculate the risk of using just that much more boost because if you use too much boost and then take too much damage you'll explode; the game has an amazingly well balanced boost/damage bar where your energy bar is used for both boost and your health, so you have to determine what you'll risk to try to push it to the finish line. On the hardest difficulty levels, you'll never be doing anything but flashing red all the time, leaving you a sweating, eye-bulging tense wreck of a man always on the edge of your seat.

Now imagine you're doing that while taking roller coaster-esque loops and raging thunderstorms crash about in the background and you... OMG YOU'RE TAKING A JUMP AT 2500kmph!
 
Amir0x said:
Imagine a game where the racing vehicles move so fast that your face melts as you play it. Now imagine while you're going at these speeds, you're having to calculate the risk of using just that much more boost because if you use too much boost and then take too much damage you'll explode; the game has an amazingly well balanced boost/damage bar where your energy bar is used for both boost and your health, so you have to determine what you'll risk to try to push it to the finish line. On the hardest difficulty levels, you'll never be doing anything but flashing red all the time, leaving you a sweating, eye-bulging tense wreck of a man always on the edge of your seat.

Now imagine you're doing that while taking roller coaster-esque loops and raging thunderstorms crash about in the background and you... OMG YOU'RE TAKING A JUMP AT 2500kmph!

So it's like if Pod Racing was designed by someone competent?
 

Amir0x

Banned
Star Wars Racer was not almost as good and you just offended F-Zero GX by even implying such a thing. Nor was the sense of speed even remotely close.

GO TO YOUR ROOM PERU.

No, without dinner!
 

AniHawk

Member
Amir0x said:
Yeah, Retro can't help how bad the foundation they had to work with was. I mean, to their credit, it still was a relatively pretty-for-Wii game that really stood out in Dolphin from the Dolphin pics I saw. In action, though, the only levels worth a damn were those temple stages and even those were helplessly stuck on the unreliable enemy hit detection/bouncing gameplay or the hideously broken shake-to-roll mechanic. Or the game was too busy being bogged down by an ENTIRE WORLD of trial-and-error garbage mine cart stages.

did you ever play it? they even fucked up certain jumping-on-enemy mechanics that are easier to pull off in every 2d sonic game ever made.
 

Amir0x

Banned
AniHawk said:
did you ever play it? they even fucked up certain jumping-on-enemy mechanics that are easier to pull off in every 2d sonic game ever made.

yes I played it. My brother-in-law is always my go to guy for games I'm never going to buy but want to play out of morbid curiosity since he tends to like a lot of things I don't. In this case my love of Retro made me sit through it to see if it could actually manage to make the DKC formula into something good.

I did like a few elements and it is the best DKC game by default but ain't nothing can fix that foundation. Like a 5.0/10 game.

The shake-to-roll thing is the most unforgivable action though. I still cannot believe Retro made such an amateur mistake. Also, was kinda dumb the shake beat thing/blow thing.
 

Sirius

Member
ThoseDeafMutes said:
So it's like if Pod Racing was designed by someone competent?
^ It's like pod-racing, but with an extra dose of speed - pun intended.

Oh yes, and the gravity vortexes in this game induce complete mindfuck.
 

AniHawk

Member
Amir0x said:
The shake-to-roll thing is the most unforgivable action though. I still cannot believe Retro made such an amateur mistake. Also, was kinda dumb the shake beat thing/blow thing.

i believe that ncl thinks these guys are the dumbest dumbasses ever. that, or retro never questions a decision from japan. their idea to include multiplayer was shot down until miyamoto did it, and i bet that if it was made by ead, they would have allowed the company to put in gamecube controls.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
You guys done making things up, so we can get back to talking about more plausible stuff like 8GB flash storage?
 

Amir0x

Banned
I am fairly certain they will make DKCR2. I am just a hopeful man, and hope Retro isn't forced to another two games of solitary confinement making games in a crap franchise.

That said, maybe with the sequel they'll strip out shake to roll. That'd be a big start to begin with

I just hope before they have to return to making awful DKC games, they're allowed to make something brand new for Stream.
 

AniHawk

Member
Chet Rippo said:
You guys are crazy if you think they won't make a DKCR2.

eh, i think dkcr's power was saving the wii's holiday and being a revival game. they can continue the series, but it won't have the same strength as that one. it's not like the nsmb games.

amir0x said:
I am fairly certain they will make DKCR2. I am just a hopeful man, and hope Retro isn't forced to another two games of solitary confinement making games in a crap franchise.

it's happened before!
 

Amir0x

Banned
AniHawk said:
eh, i think dkcr's power was saving the wii's holiday and being a revival game. they can continue the series, but it won't have the same strength as that one. it's not like the nsmb games.



it's happened before!

You know in your heart Anihawk that metroid prime is a great series of games and you're just annoyed the word Metroid is attached to it!
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
AniHawk said:
i want to talk about valve's new stream game some more.

Opposing Force 2.
 

Amir0x

Banned
The M.O.B said:
The Star Wars Racer Arcade was godlike, unfortunately I couldn't find any arcade here in Socal that had the F-Zero AX :/

Back in the day my #1 arcade cabinet related dream was to have an F-Zero AX arcade cabinet in my house.

It is still my dream when i get rich
 

Peru

Member
Amir0x said:
Star Wars Racer was not almost as good and you just offended F-Zero GX by even implying such a thing. Nor was the sense of speed even remotely close.

GO TO YOUR ROOM PERU.

No, without dinner!

Hah, it did have an amazing sense of speed though. Not the finesse of F-Zero, certainly, but the thrill of recklessness.. For being based on such a terrible movie it was a giant shock.
 

Metallix

Banned
Amir0x said:
That said, maybe with the sequel they'll strip out shake to roll. That'd be a big start to begin with.
I'd go even further and hope they remove all shaking. Map roll to a button, and get rid of the stupid blowing on flowers mechanic.

Also, I hope they don't mimic Rare and ditch Donkey Kong in favor of Dixie. If anything, have three characters, and maybe allow them to be switched out. One mechanic I missed in DKCR was switching characters.
 

Instro

Member
Amir0x said:
The shake-to-roll thing is the most unforgivable action though. I still cannot believe Retro made such an amateur mistake. Also, was kinda dumb the shake beat thing/blow thing.

In general any motion elements that could simply be replaced by a button push are pretty lame. Particularly when they are of the "shake to do something" variety.

I mean I loved the game and all, but that decision was completley weird. Lack of buttons on the Wiimote probably didnt help.

Chet Rippo said:
You guys are crazy if you think they won't make a DKCR2.

Of course it will get made at some point, but its pretty unlikely that its Retro's next title. First of all DKCR just released like 6 months ago, theres no way they could have known how well DKCR was going to sell so its pretty unlikely they would have already started work on a sequel for the Cafe considering they have probably had dev kits for quite a while. Besides, a 2.5D game is not something you make to show off the power of a new console.
 

Caramello

Member
AniHawk said:
i believe that ncl thinks these guys are the dumbest dumbasses ever. that, or retro never questions a decision from japan. their idea to include multiplayer was shot down until miyamoto did it, and i bet that if it was made by ead, they would have allowed the company to put in gamecube controls.

What? It was Miyamoto that told them they shouldn't include multiplayer because it was so difficult to pull off. They went ahead and did it anyway.
 

AniHawk

Member
well i did replay metroid prime last november. it was better than i remembered, probably because i was really hyped for it in 2002 and i wasn't quite as much in 2010. another thing that helped was that i approached it as 'first-person zelda with a gun-arm' instead of 'first-person metroid'
 

Amir0x

Banned
Metallix said:
I'd go even further and hope they remove all shaking. Map roll to a button, and get rid of the stupid blowing on flowers mechanic.

Thumbs up. Also, they need to seriously work on the hit detection and bouncing enemy physics/feel. It's extremely unreliable in the game, and it doesn't become clear how unreliable until the temple stages and when you're time running. Then it's frustratingly bad.

Metallix said:
Also, I hope they don't mimic Rare and ditch Donkey Kong in favor of Dixie. If anything, have three characters, and maybe allow them to be switched out. One mechanic I missed in DKCR was switching characters.

And NO MORE MINE CART WORLDS PLEASE
 

Darryl

Banned
You guys done making things up, so we can get back to talking about more plausible stuff like 8GB flash storage?

I don't see what part of this is really that important. There's absolutely no way they're going to limit disk space to 8GB, if they want any third-party support at all they're going to need disk space for DLC, because that seems to be the way of the future.

There's also no point in including a hard drive in every purchase. It'll needlessly jack up the price for all the soccer mom's who want to play Wii Fit 3.0.

8GB Flash storage is just the best option to include default with a console.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Amir0x said:
And NO MORE MINE CART WORLDS PLEASE

Oh my god just stop pleeeeeeaaaaaaaase.

This thread. So full of fuck.
 
DKCR is a good game, but no way it should've taken that long to produce.
Major interference most of the time. Retro should just be left alone.

No more mine carts? What.com/what?
 

Metallix

Banned
Amir0x said:
And NO MORE MINE CART WORLDS PLEASE
And NO MORE ROCKET BARREL STAGES!!!

Good lord, those things were pretty fucking annoying. Nothing like horrid controls coupled with scrolling stages to get your blood pressure elevated!
 

Amir0x

Banned
it's ok EatChildren the game is still the same amount of amazing to you so who cares what we think

Metallix said:
And NO MORE ROCKET BARREL STAGES!!!

Good lord, those things were pretty fucking annoying. Nothing like horrid controls coupled with scrolling stages to get your blood pressure elevated!

Dear god yes wtf @ Rocket Barrel Stages. Especially the Rocket Barrel stage when you had to keep spamming A.

Any level that requires trial-and-error in order to pass is a failure of level design, so mine cart stages are out for sure though
 

AniHawk

Member
Caramello said:
What? It was Miyamoto that told them they shouldn't include multiplayer because it was so difficult to pull off. They went ahead and did it anyway.

well that's what i meant. nintendo japan (miyamoto) didn't want them to put multiplayer in dkcr and then nintendo japan (miyamoto again) put multiplayer in nsmbw.

Amir0x said:
Dear god yes wtf @ Rocket Barrel Stages. Especially the Rocket Barrel stage when you had to keep spamming A.

god fucking dammit. i had repressed those fucking memories.
 

Fou-Lu

Member
I actually fucking loved DKCR, (Interestingly there has never been a DK game I didn't like, maybe I'm just insane) but even I'll admit that it was a waste of Retro's talents, honestly almost any other Nintendo franchise seems like a better fit for them.

However personally I'd like to see how they handle an RPG, but that might just be the RPG whore in me.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Amir0x said:
it's ok EatChildren the game is still the same amount of amazing to you so who cares what we think

But if everyone doesn't agree with me I start to question my stance because I need a constant stream of personal validation.

I dont know who I am anymore.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Ichor said:
I actually fucking loved DKCR, (Interestingly there has never been a DK game I didn't like, maybe I'm just insane) but even I'll admit that it was a waste of Retro's talents, honestly almost any other Nintendo franchise seems like a better fit for them.

However personally I'd like to see how they handle an RPG, but that might just be the RPG whore in me.

It'd be interesting to see Retro make an RPG. Because it'd be a WRPG and I love WRPGs :D

Instro said:
Mine carts are awesome, shut up. They can get rid of those rocket levels though.

It's trial and error tripe. I can't stand levels where you have to memorize a layout twelve times just to complete it the correct way because things come out you have no possible way of knowing will be there until it's too late on your first run.

Trial-and-error game design = laziest, shittiest game design on Earth
 

Wallach

Member
Amir0x said:
It'd be interesting to see Retro make an RPG. Because it'd be a WRPG and I love WRPGs :D

For some reason I wanna see them make a turn-based game like Odium. Some kinda weird horror/strategy shit that would blow peoples' minds.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Metallix said:
So... all of them, yes?

I'm glad we're in agreement.

Oh I thought you were talking about all the Barrel Cannon stages in general

i agree to that too

They can keep in the Rhino though
 

Metallix

Banned
Amir0x said:
They can keep in the Rhino though
I agree. I'd also like to see more of the animals from the first three games brought back, maybe with some new twists with regards to how you have to utilize them.
 

Fou-Lu

Member
Retro showed with Metroid Prime that they could make fucking amazing worlds, so an open world RPG from them could be orgasmic. New IP or an RPG version of one of Nintendo's IPs, doesn't matter, just do it.
 
Amir0x said:
Trial-and-error game design = laziest, shittiest game design on Earth

Do you like Demon's Souls, Limbo or Super Meat Boy? It can be fun if it's well implemented.

Ichor said:
Retro showed with Metroid Prime that they could make fucking amazing worlds, so an open world RPG from them could be orgasmic. New IP or an RPG version of one of Nintendo's IPs, doesn't matter, just do it.

Assuming the Super Wii is considerably more powerful than PS360, then I'd love to see them create an expansive world filled with memorable places. Doesn't have to be an RPG though.
 

AniHawk

Member
Ichor said:
I actually fucking loved DKCR, (Interestingly there has never been a DK game I didn't like, maybe I'm just insane) but even I'll admit that it was a waste of Retro's talents, honestly almost any other Nintendo franchise seems like a better fit for them.

However personally I'd like to see how they handle an RPG, but that might just be the RPG whore in me.

i doubt they have the writing staff up to the task
(although which video game studio does?)

nintendo barely spent the bus fare it took to go from noa hq down to the seattle performing arts center to ask if anyone would like to voice a video game character for metroid other m, so i doubt they'd go ahead and voice a full western rpg.

yes yes, xenoblade, but that's nintendo europe, and its localization is being funded by that continent's many tyrannical monarchies.
 

Shiggy

Member
Buckethead said:
DKCR is a good game, but no way it should've taken that long to produce.
Major interference most of the time. Retro should just be left alone.

No more mine carts? What.com/what?

One and a half years is long nowadays?
 
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