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[wsippel]

I'm curious to see this...not excited though, which is a first for a new Nintendo console.

It more than likely being on par graphically with the 360 is a really big buzz kill for me.

01net and Game Informer say that, IGN and Kotaku say otherwise. IGN also said the device would be huge, and you don't need a huge case unless you require some massive cooling. We'll see.

 

[Vinterbird]

I'm not sure what I'd rather have. Leaks now. Or an awesome E3 surprise.

The real surprise will be the games, and their use of the controller. Technology and design of it isn't that big of a deal.

Just give me one thing nintendo: please let this thing but significantly more powerful than current console hardware offerings. I don't think I can take another Wii scenario again.

It will be a Xbox 360 with some extra jazz. There's no need for Nintendo to do something insane power wise, when the competition is at the same level, and Nintendo could probably make it, so can sell it at a reasonable price at a profit, which is what Nintendo does.

There's no way they're going to do a PS4 with this in terms of tech.

 

[Corky]

God e3 can't come soon enough. The speculation and hyperbole in this thread is reaching critical mass.

 

[Plinko]

Old?

http://www.wiihdrumors.com/

Like Nintendo would say "Feel free to take pictures of the mock up so it can leak onto the internet." That's what that positioning on the table screams.

 

[Xdrive05]

Just give me one thing nintendo: please let this thing but significantly more powerful than current console hardware offerings. I don't think I can take another Wii scenario again.

To be fair, the gap between the Wii and current-gen HD consoles is much larger than whatever it would be between a similarly powered Wii2 and whatever the "2nd-gen HD consoles" would end up being. At least they would output the same resolution and all would use pixel shaders, if for no other reason.

 

[Plinko]

I am not the one who is assuming this, there are people who are thinking this will happen

They're insane. There's no way that happens. Didn't the French site already say it would output 1080p graphics?

 

[brain_stew]

From what I've seen, D3D11 offers very few new features over D3D10. It's mostly one feature that's driver related (multithreading support), one that's pretty much irrelevant for games (DirectCompute), and one that's already supported by R700 (Tessellation).

DirectCompute is hardly irrelevant for games but R700 already supports it under DX11 anyway (to a more limited degree) and the equivalent under OpenCL will run on r700 just fine. Heck, considering the much lower level hardware access, I'd fully expect Cafe developers to create much more flexible and optimised compute routines than what we see under DX11.

DX11 also adds support for new texture formats as well as a few other things but that is at the expense of an increased transistor count. If Nintendo don't feel they'll ever use those new formats, why would they waste transistors on them?

People really need to remember that Cafe will never run DX code. RSX is a limited DX9 part and yet PS3 developers are doing things beyond even the DX11 specification.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Still, I hope they stick close to the Wii aesthetic. Also, a TV-less home console sounds like a TERRIBLE idea. Why have it be a home console then (and be powerful, for that matter)? The only pro I can think of is easier single-console multiplayer. Instead of splitting the TV screen, each player gets their own screen.

Even the argument for putting GUI elements on the screen is bullshit, IMO. Who wants to glance down at their controller to see their ammo, maps, etc.? GUIs are on the TV for a reason.

Which is in keeping with their DNA. It doesn't really alter anything else. 1080P can still be done for single-player. Even at 1080P on a traditional system, splitting a HDTV into 4 gives each player a much smaller resolution box than that. So 800*500 doesn't really mean anything. It's actually a better resolution for 4 player local.

 

[Medalion]

The real surprise will be the games, and their use of the controller. Technology and design of it isn't that big of a deal.



It will be a Xbox 360 with some extra jazz. There's no need for Nintendo to do something insane power wise, when the competition is at the same level, and Nintendo could probably make it, so can sell it at a reasonable price at a profit, which is what Nintendo does.

There's no way they're going to do a PS4 with this in terms of tech.

And therein lies the problem, if Nintendo only makes a console that is comparable to current Hd console offerings, outdated technology, by the time ps4 and xbox next comes out it will be a generational gap for a few years like the Wii to the others currently

 

[DragonKnight]

To be fair, the gap between the Wii and current-gen HD consoles is much larger than whatever it would be between a similarly powered Wii2 and whatever the "2nd-gen HD consoles" would end up being. At least they would output the same resolution and all would use pixel shaders, if for no other reason.

I just want uniform third party support this time. I'm not putting up with any "we can't run this on Nintendo Hardware" bullshit anymore.

No cartridges, no mini discs, no underpowered hardware, no stupid exec decision that seriously limits third party attraction to the console. God!

 

[Kagari]

God e3 can't come soon enough. The speculation and hyperbole in this thread is reaching critical mass.

You should have seen the 3DS pre-announce thread.

 

[TL4E]

I'm getting that little kid feeling. I can't wait for this!

Although I hope it's not $400. That will ensure it won't be as successful as the wii.

 

[Corky]

You should have seen the 3DS pre-announce thread.

Oh god, I can only imagine.

The horror

The horror...

 

[brain_stew]

Well, now it is clear why this discussion about the GPU is plain bullshit. Thanks to answer.


I see. What bother me though is the projected increase in power for next-gen GPUs. There was a chart somewhere stating that GPUs by 2013 would be 16 times faster that the mid-range Fermi products currently available.

In DP code,code which willl never be used in any game within the next decade, if ever. Any transistor used to increase DP performance is a wasted transistor in a games console, that chart signifies an ever growing decrease in area efficiency for game code, not an increase.

 

[watershed]

Has anyone updated with Iwata's new comments? He doesn't say much but i saw it quoted a few Pages ago. Basically he said wait till E3

 

[Vinterbird]

And therein lies the problem, if Nintendo only makes a console that is comparable to current Hd console offerings, outdated technology, by the time ps4 and xbox next comes out it will be a generational gap for a few years like the Wii to the others currently

And it worked out brilliant for them in every way possible.

I just want uniform third party support this time. I'm not putting up with any "we can't run this on Nintendo Hardware" bullshit anymore.

No cartridges, no mini discs, no underpowered hardware, no stupid exec decision that seriously limits third party attraction to the console. God!

Their stupid decisions made sure they dominated the console space this generation. So Nintendo might be a fan of their stupid decisions.

 

[Plinko]

So now all that is left to do while we wait is dissect the rumors. What is interesting to me is that the French site had speculation about the hardware and IGN came out with hard specifics:

revamped version of AMD's R700 GPU architecture, not AMD's Fusion technology as previously believed, which will, as previously reported, out perform the PlayStation 3's NVIDIA 7800GTX-based processor. Like the Xbox 360, the system's CPU will be a custom-built triple-core IBM PowerPC chipset, but the clocking speeds will be faster. The system will support 1080p output with the potential for stereoscopic 3D as well.

Will be interesting to see how this turns out, but I'm leaning toward IGN being right this time.

 

[1-D_FTW]

You should have seen the 3DS pre-announce thread.

lol

I checked out when people began speculating about holographic like graphics and how they were going to play Trauma Center by manipulating the holographs via motion sensing.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I was just looking at photos of old Coffee Sets you can see a Coffee Jar (Console) surrounded by Coffee Mugs (Controllers) the Stream = Pouring Coffee into Mugs

damn you Nintendo and your crazy teases and deadly ninjas

 

[Plinko]

I think releasing at $349 with a pack-in game makes sense for Nintendo if they release in April/May/June 2012.

It most likely gives them a year and a half before a competitor puts out another console and, when they do, Nintendo can drop the price. From a business standpoint it seems like a good idea.

 

[iamblades]

Just because Sony and Nintendo can't use the DX11 API doesn't mean that they can't access the hardware that makes those APIs work. That's why I used the word "compliant".

But anyway, If the R700 supports all the best DX11 features anyway then I guess that would be enough (assuming it's implementations of said features aren't too different from the standard. We all know how that worked out for the TEV).

Yeah, I know which is why I clarified that ATi had previous hardware support for tesselation and GPU computation, just not as standardized or fast.

DX10 was the big feature jump, with the fully programmable pipelines and geometry shaders.

DX11 was a minor update comparatively.

 

[brain_stew]

hopefully it can run unreal engine 3 now... else I await epic's excuse.

Unreal Engine will already be up and running. I'd be surprised if it wasn't one of the E3 tech demos.

 

[DragonKnight]

The real surprise will be the games, and their use of the controller. Technology and design of it isn't that big of a deal.



It will be a Xbox 360 with some extra jazz. There's no need for Nintendo to do something insane power wise, when the competition is at the same level, and Nintendo could probably make it, so can sell it at a reasonable price at a profit, which is what Nintendo does.

There's no way they're going to do a PS4 with this in terms of tech.

Are you serious? If nintendo is only thinking in the now then the same third party situation will happen two years down the line when the PS4/720 roll out. Neither the SNES, N64, or GCN were weak pieces of hardware and all three were relatively cheap. The competition isn't just the 360/ps3 but it includes whatever micro and sony are bringing to the table in two years. The wii2 needs to be the ps2 of the upcoming generation in terms of hardware power to see third party that lasts for an entire generation. That is the issue: third party support. Not spin offs, not mini games, but third party games that are the same across all three consoles.

 

[Corky]

And it worked out brilliant for them in every way possible.


.

Exactly so I'm puzzled at people thinking that somehow Nintendo will change that winning formula and opt for a ps3-esque position with their next system.

It's nice to want things, it's nice to want mario 60fps@1080p and mustachetesselation. But something tells me it won't be like that.

 

[mrklaw]

Which is in keeping with their DNA. It doesn't really alter anything else. 1080P can still be done for single-player. Even at 1080P on a traditional system, splitting a HDTV into 4 gives each player a much smaller resolution box than that. So 800*500 doesn't really mean anything. It's actually a better resolution for 4 player local.

no, a 1080p screen cut into 4 would be 950x540 per player. And you'd get a lot bigger than a 6" screen to play it on (although further away from you)

 

[Vinterbird]

Are you serious? If nintendo is only thinking in the now then the same third party situation will happen two years down the line when the PS4/720 roll out. Neither the SNES, N64, or GCN were weak pieces of hardware and all three were relatively cheap. The competition isn't just the 360/ps3 but it includes whatever micro and sony are bringing to the table in two years. The wii2 needs to be the ps2 of the upcoming generation in terms of hardware power to see third party that lasts for an entire generation. That is the issue: third party support. Not spin offs, not mini games, but third party games that are the same across all three consoles.

The Wii dominated without HD or insane tech. They were right, when they said it was about the user experience, and delivering the best possible technology at a point where they are still profitable.

It worked for the Wii and 3DS, and there is no way they are gonna do a PS3 and take a loss on every single unit sold for half a decade.

 

[DragonKnight]

And it worked out brilliant for them in every way possible.




Their stupid decisions made sure they dominated the console space this generation. So Nintendo might be a fan of their stupid decisions.

Do you work for Nintendo? We all obviously know that nintendo was successful this generation. They could have seen the same success with the N64 and the GCN is they didn't make decisions that went against the grain.

With the wii sure nintendo's decisions have worked for them but not for their core fanbase. That is the issue here. Not how much money nintendo has made with the Wii but the serious lack of quality in games that are not made by nintendo.

 

[[Nintex]]

If Nintendo sells their system at $349/$400 as expected it'll have a signifcant bump in power compared to what's out today. If they go with a $249/$299 system it'll be far less impressive. I'm leaning towards the first and I think it'll be quite a powerful machine. If they're not going 'next-gen' they could've just made a $250 Xbox 360+ instead of a new much more expensive machine. Launching a $349 system that barely beats the 360 would cripple them from the start.

 

[Kintaro]

E3 will be destructive.

 

[DragonKnight]

Exactly so I'm puzzled at people thinking that somehow Nintendo will change that winning formula and opt for a ps3-esque position with their next system.

It's nice to want things, it's nice to want mario 60fps@1080p and mustachetesselation. But something tells me it won't be like that.

No one is expecting a ps3 esque position. Tell me something. Is anyone here seriously okay will the prospect of buying a system that in two years time will receive minimal main stream third party support?

 

[zoukka]

With the wii sure nintendo's decisions have worked for them but not for their core fanbase. That is the issue here. Not how much money nintendo has made with the Wii but the serious lack of quality in games that are not made by nintendo.

Core audience changes each generation.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

E3 will be destructive.

Neogaf will be down for weeks, never give Nintendo fans a reason to crash websites

 

[1-D_FTW]

no, a 1080p screen cut into 4 would be 950x540 per player. And you'd get a lot bigger than a 6" screen to play it on (although further away from you)

Oops. You're right. I thought it sounded off, thought about doing the calculations, and decided it's too early for arithmetic.

I guess the counter is: Who's to say it's limited to 4 players? Maybe it's 5 or 6.

 

[Vinterbird]

No one is expecting a ps3 esque position. Tell me something. Is anyone here seriously okay will the prospect of buying a system that in two years time will receive minimal main stream third party support?

Yup. It worked for the Wii, and it will work this time around again.

 

[Corky]

. Tell me something. Is anyone here seriously okay will the prospect of buying a system that in two years time will receive minimal main stream third party support?

Again, people bought the wii in spite it's 3rd party support, or lack thereof.

 

[Laurent]

And therein lies the problem, if Nintendo only makes a console that is comparable to current Hd console offerings, outdated technology, by the time ps4 and xbox next comes out it will be a generational gap for a few years like the Wii to the others currently

Dreamcast

 

[DragonKnight]

The Wii dominated without HD or insane tech. They were right, when they said it was about the user experience, and delivering the best possible technology at a point where they are still profitable.

It worked for the Wii and 3DS, and there is no way they are gonna do a PS3 and take a loss on every single unit sold for half a decade.

Again, no one is saying nintendo needs to make ps3 which for reference was only that expensive because of that blu-ray drive. Still, it justs needs to be in the same ballpark as Sony and Microsoft's next gen offerings. If Mass Effect 4 is on ps4/720, then the wii2 needs to be able to run it as well. Just an example of course

 

[Goon Boon]

Know whats going to be great about this? Someones gonna make a pc driver, then I'll have a little touchscreen for all sorts of cool shit.

 

[Xdrive05]

Another smart thing about targeting the hardware at "slightly better than 360" means all the gains made by developers over the last 5 years will be freebies on the Wii2. So if your engine runs well on the 360, it will probably run better on the Wii2 will little to no effort.

And since the studios are already complaining about production costs with these new systems, I can foresee some hesitation in supporting PS4/360.2 scoped games where the production costs will go up yet again (assuming those system go for a quantum leap forward in tech again).

This is probably the level of project scope the industry will be most comfortable developing in for some time to come (until costs come down, the economy recovers, etc.)

 

[AceBandage]

So what is that suppose to be?
Mario or a controller?

 

[Raide]

No one is expecting a ps3 esque position. Tell me something. Is anyone here seriously okay will the prospect of buying a system that in two years time will receive minimal main stream third party support?

IF Sony/MS go the tech route and launch consoles with way higher spec than the Cafe, most 3rd parties would gladly go with them just so they have even more tech to play with. This is ony if they go tech and not a slighly upgrade to save money aka Wii.

I won't be buying one at launch but I will certainly keep an eye on what games get announced for it. If the right stuff appears, I will buy one but having Sony/MS looming in the background could be a reason for some developers to skip the Cafe or at least not put all their effort into it.

 

[Vinterbird]

Again, no one is saying nintendo needs to make ps3 which for reference was only that expensive because of that blu-ray drive. Still, it justs needs to be in the same ballpark as Sony and Microsoft's next gen offerings. If Mass Effect 4 is on ps4/720, then the wii2 needs to be able to run it as well. Just an example of course

Why? The Wii did more then well without Mass Effect or the real Call of Duty games.

And at the moment, we don't know if MS and Sony will go the Wii route (current hardware, more ram and some better stuff here and there) or go tech-crazy again (which I highly doubt). And I would doubt Nintendo knows what either company is going to do either.

So for Nintendo, this is without a doubt the absolut smartest thin they could do. They are creating a console that can get ports for the next few years, and they are creating a machine they can sell at a profit, and launch it as "the successor to the Wii", which is an extremely powerful piece of wording to throw around.

 

[avaya]

OK now a lot of this is confirmed I can see why Sony and MS really kind of held back till 2013, not that concerned. Repeating Wii is unlikely at best.

Also I don't understand this idea that this new console will receive minimal third party support. This will not be the Wii situation when PS4 and the NextBox launch, Wii was just heavily crippled compared to other platforms. With a DirectX compliant GPU and a PowerPC processor this console will receive a host of third party titles well into the next generation.

 

[Kintaro]

Know whats going to be great about this? Someones gonna make a pc driver, then I'll have a little touchscreen for all sorts of cool shit.

*explosion brofist*

My E3 prediction: No matter what Nintendo shows, it still won't be enough for gamers. Of course, a new Super Mario launching day one with the system would cause them to wet themselves anyway.

 

[DragonKnight]

Again, people bought the wii in spite it's 3rd party support, or lack thereof.

Which people, core users or casual ones? I think you are looking at this from a business executive standpoint. If they are really trying to gain the core user, then the lack of third party support will not work here. It's like a dirty trick. Get our system now but in two years time, say bye to quality third party support. If so, then count me out. Hopefully I can at least rent the thing when HD nintendo first party titles come out.

 

[Michan]

So what is that suppose to be?
Mario or a controller?

It's a bunny.

Does everything creative they do have to be related to their own hardware and software?

 

[Corky]

So what is that suppose to be?
Mario or a controller?

a "special" rabbit

 

[Vinterbird]

Which people, core users or casual ones? I think you are looking at this from a business executive standpoint. If they are really trying to gain the core user, then the lack of third party support will not work here. It's like a dirty trick. Get our system now but in two years time, say bye to quality third party support. If so, then count me out. Hopefully I can at least rent the thing when HD nintendo first party titles come out.

Nintendo is a business. Nintendo is exclusively looking at this from a business stand point.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

There's definitely official news coming this Tuesday from that investors meeting, but the blowout will of course be on the E3.

"Definitely"? No.

"Somewhat likely"? Yes, if the rumors are actually true.

It'll probably the same deal as when they announced the 3DS last year. A brief PR blurb mentioning the name or code name, and if we're lucky, confirming the controller screen. That's the absolute maximum I would expect if we get news on Tuesday.

Nintendo's 3DS announcement on March 23, 2010:

This is all we'll probably get.

Called it.

 

[Igor Antunov]

If the rumoured launch price is near right ($350-400) then stop fretting you poor graphically starved babies. That price means beefy hardware.

And nintendo can afford to go beefy because it will have a 2 year head start. Sales won't have to be wii-esque right from the start.