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[Stephen Colbert]

People seem to be in denial about that most quality third party games on the wii flopped. Third party devs that did try on the wii for the most part failed to make a dent or even recoup their investment in many cases.

My counter-argument to yours was that it wasn't so much the horsepower of the Wii being the downside as it was 3rd parties not getting on board or being successful when they did. And honestly, they're tied together. Nintendo games sold well because they were quality. 3rd parties didn't sell well because they didn't put the effort into them. Why they didn't try is the biggest question. We got PS2 ports instead of PS3 ports, or hardly anything at all. That's the big thing Nintendo needs to fix with the Cafe... Making developers confident that their product will be noticed and appreciated by gamers on the console.

And I'm saying that horsepower was a huge part of the reason why third parties didn't get on board, and were not successful when they did get on board.

When your hardware is so far behind everything else, it's not worthwhile to release multiplatform titles to you.

And when you fail to sell well even when you work hard and make a good game, it makes you wary of making more games on that console in the future.

The people that the Wii appealed to were in large part people that were ONLY interested in Wii Sports, Wii Fit, maybe Mario and not much beyond that.

A huge chunk of Wii's customer base weren't people that play videogames. They were people that heard they could lose weight or get a workout by getting a Wii.

When you cripple the hardware, you lose the interest of core gamers. And core gamers are the ones that buy videogames on a regular basis. They are the ones you need to target if you want third parties to be attracted to your system. They are the ones you need to target if you want your system to have long legs.

 

[OdysseusVA]

Who was the GAFFER that was going to stream the meeting?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The horsepower probably was the root problem, but because it kept games off the system, not because consumers went "I don't want this, I demand a resolution of 1024x768 MINIMUM."

 

[TunaLover]

The people that I know that own a HDTV don't care about resolution/image quality, I think most of them want a big screen and a fancy flat TV, heck, even gamers that I know don't see worth buy a HDMI cable. *sigh*

 

[Ashodin]

Who was the GAFFER that was going to stream the meeting?

I was but I said fuck it because it was going to be not much of anything.

 

[watershed]

And I doubt that your mom is that type of person that would buy a videogame beyond Wii Fit.

That's the flaw if target people that don't care about visuals at all, those are the types of people that might buy a Wii for Wii Sports or Wii Fit, but will never bother to buy a game again.

The types of people that would buy console games semi regularly are the same people who care about things like graphics and visuals.

So are we ignoring the part where Nintendo still leads this generation in units sold and profits? Where they have ridiculous sales numbers for titles like wii fit, wii sports resort, NSMBWii and countless other multi-million sellers? And importantly, the part where even in a state of decline they still make 5 times more profit than their closest competitor the 360 (this is someone else's stat from the Nintendo profit fall thread, they had links for evidence but I'm too lazy)?

 

[Kard8p3]

Who was the GAFFER that was going to stream the meeting?

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nintendo-neogaf-news-show

 

[Glass Joe]

And I doubt that your mom is that type of person that would buy a videogame beyond Wii Fit.

That's the flaw if target people that don't care about visuals at all, those are the types of people that might buy a Wii for Wii Sports or Wii Fit, but will never bother to buy a game again.

The types of people that would buy console games semi regularly are the same people who care about things like graphics and visuals.

I agree that a big reason the Wii sold as well as it did was because it to some, a fad product. A lot of non-gamers had to try Wii Bowling and Wii Fit but otherwise didn't care about stuff like The Conduit or whatever. It may have expanded the market, but how many casuals tried out regular games? And how was the Tie in ratio for Wii games compared to PS360? As dire as I might expect?

With that said, sales of Donkey Kong Country Returns seems to prove that there was a healthy market for quality non-gimmicky Wii games after all. Just, apparently they had to have a Nintendo mascot in them. Same fate since the N64 era.

So, how does Nintendo get more sales for others? I definitely think the Cafe dashboard needs to hype new 3rd party games and offer free demos, to start.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

^^The tie in rate was near equal to the PS3 I believe. And The Conduit sucked. And Madworld and NMH were niche. No AAA titles to be found.

The horsepower probably was the root problem, but because it kept games off the system, not because consumers went "I don't want this, I demand a resolution of 1024x768 MINIMUM."

Right. So essentially we had the nerd inside all of the devs take over the actual business side.

 

[The M.O.B]

Who was the GAFFER that was going to stream the meeting?

Funny thing is, banned nintendo site posted a Rumor that the event might be live-streamed based on this Gaffers post below.

Its tuesday guys. 4 PM Tuesday Tokyo time aka 3 AM Tuesday EST, Midnight Pacific. Event will be streamed apparently but of course in japanese so will need moonspeak translators

 

[TekkenMaster]

Most gamers care about visuals only when the difference is extremely obvious. For example, someone who sees Wii Sports/Play/Fit and then thinks that all Wii games have simplistic graphics.

No one cared that PS2's graphics were inferior to Xbox's because it just wasn't a significant enough difference to most gamers who don't read sites like NeoGAF.

As long as Cafe games are equal/better looking than PS360, and in the same ballpark as Xbox720/PS4 it might very well be wildly successful.

 

[OdysseusVA]

I was but I said fuck it because it was going to be not much of anything.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Right. So essentially we had the nerd inside all of the devs take over the actual business side.

Well, it wasn't that, really.

Publishers were looking at it fiscally. If they could just port over their current PS360/PC work really easily on the Wii, it wouldn't matter if the games didn't do super great. They'd do well enough to make a profit on the investment.

A separate team with separate assets was too much to ask of them.

 

[Eteric Rice]

^^The tie in rate was near equal to the PS3 I believe. And The Conduit sucked.

Right. So essentially we had the nerd inside all of the devs take over the actual business side.

I think the biggest problem was that publishers and developers had already paid for engines and assets that worked on the PS3/360 level. Millions of dollars invested right off the bat.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Wow, stephen you truly are the colbert of GAF.

 

[Ashodin]

I had technical problems too - plus there's not really any site anywhere doing any live streaming.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

The horsepower probably was the root problem, but because it kept games off the system, not because consumers went "I don't want this, I demand a resolution of 1024x768 MINIMUM."

That's a guess on your part. I had a Wii since launch (mostly because my parents wanted to try Wii Sports). Many wii games did not appeal to me because they had such shitty graphics.

It's actually a ludicrous statement to say that the graphics don't factor into buying decisions.

If this was the case, then third parties wouldn't be sinking millions into their graphics and assets when developing games.

 

[ciD_Vain]

I had technical problems too - plus there's not really any site anywhere doing any live streaming.

Any site doing live-blogging??

edit: nvm

 

[Nirolak]

Well, it wasn't that, really.

Publishers were looking at it fiscally. If they could just port over their current PS360/PC work really easily on the Wii, it wouldn't matter if the games didn't do super great. They'd do well enough to make a profit on the investment.

A separate team with separate assets was too much to ask of them.

They needed a lot of large scale technology changes as well.

The iPhone and iPad get a lot of developer support because developers can salvage a ton of their existing technology, even if they do need to change their art assets.

 

[Speevy]

I remember some people being a little miffed that Microsoft released a console in November 2001, and stopped software support for it by mid 05.

Although I don't think Nintendo has spoken out on the matter, what is everyone's take on the "winding down" of Wii support? Is Skyward Sword going to be the last Nintendo game for the Wii?

I'm psyched about any new console unveiling, don't get me wrong. But I'm more than a little puzzled that #1 Nintendo bailed out at around the same time as #3 Nintendo.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

That's a guess on your part. I had a Wii since launch (mostly because my parents wanted to try Wii Sports). Many wii games did not appeal to me because they had such shitty graphics.

Oh

See I guess when I was posting I should have clarified I was only talking about you and not in a general sense that will occasionally have exceptions like most general discussion about market trends.

I won't make that mistake again!

 

[Grampa Simpson]

That's a guess on your part. I had a Wii since launch (mostly because my parents wanted to try Wii Sports). Many wii games did not appeal to me because they had such shitty graphics.

It's actually a ludicrous statement to say that the graphics don't factor into buying decisions.

If this was the case, then third parties wouldn't be sinking millions into their graphics and assets when developing games.

Stephen Colbert
My parents bought a
Wii and I didn't like it
because it had shitty
graphics.
(Today, 10:47 PM)
Reply | Quote

 

[Stephen Colbert]

I had all three consoles from launch actually.

Clearly it's not just me.

Like I said, it's actually a ludicrous statement to say that the graphics don't factor into buying decisions.

If this was the case, then third parties wouldn't be sinking millions into their graphics and assets when developing games.

 

[Glass Joe]

And I'm saying that horsepower was a huge part of the reason why third parties didn't get on board, and were not successful when they did get on board.

The way you bolded my quote makes me think you didn't see the part where I was at least partially agreeing with yours:

--
My counter-argument to yours was that it wasn't so much the horsepower of the Wii being the downside as it was 3rd parties not getting on board or being successful when they did. And honestly, they're tied together.
--

Perhaps if the Wii got the same quality ports the Xbox and PS got, the story would be different.

 

[DanteFox]

I remember some people being a little miffed that Microsoft released a console in November 2001, and stopped software support for it by mid 05.

Although I don't think Nintendo has spoken out on the matter, what is everyone's take on the "winding down" of Wii support? Is Skyward Sword going to be the last Nintendo game for the Wii?

I'm psyched about any new console unveiling, don't get me wrong. But I'm more than a little puzzled that #1 Nintendo bailed out at around the same time as #3 Nintendo.

Am I crazy or was there a Kirby game in the pipeline for Wii? Seems like that game has been floating around in one form or another for years.

 

[boiled goose]

And I doubt that your mom is that type of person that would buy a videogame beyond Wii Fit.

That's the flaw if target people that don't care about visuals at all, those are the types of people that might buy a Wii for Wii Sports or Wii Fit, but will never bother to buy a game again.

The types of people that would buy console games semi regularly are the same people who care about things like graphics and visuals.

you are just making shit up.
look at the sales of just dance.
look at the sales of just dance 2.
look at the sales of wii sports resort
look at the sales of wii fit plus
look at the recent sales of zumba fitness.

casual games sell and casual gamers will buy games that interest them.

tons of wii games are some of the top sellers of all time.

There was not much of an audience for third party core games because no games were released on wii that drew that audience in. whether the games were not released because devs wanted more horsepower or whether gamers would have cared at all is not really important at this point.

wii was a software monster. the problem now is that no games are being released at all.

 

[Kard8p3]

I could've sworn that someone in the first cafe topic said Nintendo streamed these meetings themselves. Something about doing it since 2006.

 

[Nirolak]

Am I crazy or was there a Kirby game in the pipeline for Wii? Seems like that game has been floating around in one form or another for years.

Yeah, we even have a video of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui9ePLs0BoE

I could've sworn that someone in the first cafe topic said Nintendo streamed these meetings themselves. Something about doing it since 2006.

Well, they put up videos of them, but I'm not sure if they're live or not.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

Developers didn't have some hardcore conspiracy to make the Wii fail.

If their games sold on the Wii, they will make games for the Wii.

It just so happened that the audience that the Wii attracted (in part because of it's poor graphics) was one that wasn't interested in core games.

The casual audience the Wii attracted, saw it as a FAD, and like any other fad, after a few years, it gets old and they move onto something else.

If the Wii wasn't underpowered, I think it could have easily drawn in noncasual gamers as well as multiplatform games, and it would have wound up with much longer legs.

 

[wsippel]

I could've sworn that someone in the first cafe topic said Nintendo streamed these meetings themselves. Something about doing it since 2006.

IRWebcasting is streaming the events. You usually only find the archived versions afterwards, though.

 

[ant1532]

Yeah, we even have a video of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui9ePLs0BoE

Nah Nintendo just likes teasing a vaporware Kirby game right before a consoles life is over. Once they did it with gamecube they thought it'd be funny to do it again.

 

[mj1108]

Developers don't have some hardcore conspiracy to make the Wii fail.

If their games sold on the Wii, they will make games for the Wii.

If they made good games for the Wii, it would sell. Instead most opted for shovelware and watered down ports which is no fault other than their own.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I'd honestly prefer a new Epic Yarn to a traditional Kirby game.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

If they made good games for the Wii, it would sell. Instead most opted for shovelware and watered down ports which is no fault other than their own.

No, I actually think that shovelware was what the Wii's audience was interested in. As shown by this quote...

look at the sales of just dance.
look at the sales of just dance 2.
look at the sales of wii sports resort
look at the sales of wii fit plus
look at the recent sales of zumba fitness.

casual games sell and casual gamers will buy games that interest them.

That's what the Wii audience was interested in. And third parties obliged.

The core games that came out on the Wii from third parties, games like Mad World and countless others, failed HARD.

Because core gamers as it turns out do care about graphics and for the most part opted for the HD consoles.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Please tell me who bought a Wii for the visuals. People bought it for the Wii mote and Mario/ Zelda/ and Wii sports. Not for the visuals.

 

[EricDiesel]

Nah Nintendo just likes teasing a vaporware Kirby game right before a consoles life is over. Once they did it with gamecube they thought it'd be funny to do it again.

With a different iteration of the same game, no less.

 

[Pyrokai]

I remember some people being a little miffed that Microsoft released a console in November 2001, and stopped software support for it by mid 05.

Although I don't think Nintendo has spoken out on the matter, what is everyone's take on the "winding down" of Wii support? Is Skyward Sword going to be the last Nintendo game for the Wii?

I'm psyched about any new console unveiling, don't get me wrong. But I'm more than a little puzzled that #1 Nintendo bailed out at around the same time as #3 Nintendo.

Hopefully we'll get other things, like the Kirby game, Rhythm Heaven, Last Story, and Xenoblade to go along with Zelda.

While they're at it, NOA could also bring over Another Code R >.<

 

[DanteFox]

Please tell me who bought a Wii for the visuals. People bought it for the Wii mote and Mario/ Zelda/ and Wii sports. Not for the visuals.

I bought it for Zelda and Nintendo games, and for the promise of new and exciting gameplay experiences made possible by the wiimote.

 

[duckroll]

No, I actually think that shovelware was what the Wii's audience was interested in. As shown by this quote...



That's what the Wii audience was interested in. And third parties obliged.

The core games that came out on the Wii from third parties, games like Mad World and countless others, failed HARD.

Because core gamers as it turns out do care about graphics and for the most part opted for the HD consoles.

Are you suggesting that Wii Sports Resort is shovelware? Have you even played it?

 

[boiled goose]

Developers didn't have some hardcore conspiracy to make the Wii fail.

If their games sold on the Wii, they will make games for the Wii.

It just so happened that the audience that the Wii attracted (in part because of it's poor graphics) was one that wasn't interested in core games.

The casual audience the Wii attracted, saw it as a FAD, and like any other fad, after a few years, it gets old and they move onto something else.

If the Wii wasn't underpowered, I think it could have easily drawn in noncasual gamers as well as multiplatform games, and it would have wound up with much longer legs.

i agree that being underpowered might have hindered appeal to traditional gamers.

people moved on after 5 years? seems like a pretty standard console cycle. the abysmal release schedule for the wii did not help either.

i hope u are a joke character for your own sake.

 

[Balb]

Hopefully we'll get other things, like the Kirby game, Rhythm Heaven, Last Story, and Xenoblade to go along with Zelda.

While they're at it, NOA could also bring over Another Code R >.<

Yeah, those 5 games you mentioned would save Wii's 2011 for me. Nintendo's role as a platform holder has actually been kind of shameful for the past few months. I haven't seen an active console this dead since the Sega Saturn in 97/98 (in America).

 

[JaseC]

Are you suggesting that Wii Sports Resort is shovelware? Have you even played it?

As this particular juncture you have to ask yourself if that's a question worth asking.

 

[watershed]

No, I actually think that shovelware was what the Wii's audience was interested in. As shown by this quote...



That's what the Wii audience was interested in. And third parties obliged.

The core games that came out on the Wii from third parties, games like Mad World and countless others, failed HARD.

Because core gamers as it turns out do care about graphics and for the most part opted for the HD consoles.

I agree core gamers absolutely care about graphics and that hurt the wii a great deal. But a game isn't shovelware just because you didn't like it.

 

[Poyunch]

Madworld as a game deserved to fail hard. It had a great presentation but it was a shitty game that managed to be repetitive and drag on despite only being five hours long.

 

[Beth Cyra]

No, I actually think that shovelware was what the Wii's audience was interested in. As shown by this quote...



That's what the Wii audience was interested in. And third parties obliged.

The core games that came out on the Wii from third parties, games like Mad World and countless others, failed HARD.

Because core gamers as it turns out do care about graphics and for the most part opted for the HD consoles.

Why do you keep bringing up a niche game like Madworld?

Are those buying the PS3 not Hardcore because Vanquish didn't sell?

Was the PS2 audience not hardcore because no one bought God Hand?

You may have an arguement, but using Madworld only hurts your arguement.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

It's not just Mad World. If you look at the sales charts, and compare the third party core games on the wii like Dead Space, or Conduit etc. to the sales of games like Just Dance, it's pretty clear what happened.

Most core gamers opted to buy a HD console rather than a Wii.

As it turns out, core gamers for the most part do care about graphics.

 

[SlipperySlope]

^^The tie in rate was near equal to the PS3 I believe. And The Conduit sucked. And Madworld and NMH were niche. No AAA titles to be found.

Right. So essentially we had the nerd inside all of the devs take over the actual business side.

I think the 3rd party title with the biggest budget attempt on the Wii was Silent Hill: Shattered Memories. Sucks that nobody bought it.

 

[HerbertFish]

I could've sworn that someone in the first cafe topic said Nintendo streamed these meetings themselves. Something about doing it since 2006.

All companies stream their earnings and shareholders meetings. If you can manage through the Nintendo corporate site, I'm sure you can find a link.

 

[Poyunch]

Conduit and Madworld were nowhere near the quality that Dead Space was on.

 

[zoukka]

Please tell me who bought a Wii for the visuals.

I didn't buy mine for the visuals alone, but footage from Galaxy, Zelda and Metroid Prime 3 sure had a lot to do with it.