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[DECK'ARD]

Maybe shovelware isn't the precise term for it.

But I consider them shallow, short games of poor quality and poor control. Happy?

You clearly have no understanding of the appeal of those games, or how difficult it is to actually make something that intuitive, accessible and playable.

 

[antonz]

Irwebcast isn't listing an event for right now on their Nintendo section. Im guessing they will be uploading something afterwards.

Financial Times must have gotten it wrong on there being a live presentation.

Anything said though should make its way out relatively fast as it always hasthough

 

[DarkWish]

Nintendo has streamed these investor conferences live in the past, right?

I don't think so.

 

[justchris]

Maybe shovelware isn't the precise term for it.

But I consider them shallow, short games of poor quality and poor control. Happy?

Well, I've always felt sports games were shallow and of poor quality, and yet Madden games still sell millions year after year.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

I wish I made the kind of mistakes that Colbert's Nintendo make. And that Colbert's Sony make on the NGP. What a ridiculously wrong graphics bunny you are. Positively brimming over with wrongability. The epoch-defining hot jets of cash and liquid profit Nintendo have enjoyed would have been better handed over to a better graphics chip so they could get more parity with the least profitable generation of games hardware ever. Because Sony doing well in 2011, finally, after billion dollar losses, is comparable to Nintendo slowing down massively for two years and still raking in a billion.

I pray I learn to be as short sighted as Colbert's Nintendo.

I pray I never learn that high risk and low rewards are the best strategy.

The hilarious drum you beat was merely offensively wrong a few weeks ago. But now it's actually worrying. Of course Nintendo didnt want to see the Wii drop off the way it did. But the cash they have on hand from this generation? It defines this generation.

That's what's happened. That's the story.

 

[[Nintex]]

Iwata announced 2 hours ago upcoming alliances to market its consoles.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/26/us-nintendo-idUSTRE73O0RY20110426

"I now regret that we didn't tie up with someone outside the company to market the Wii. If we had done that, the fate of the Wii might have been different," Chief Executive Satoru Iwata said at a conference for investors and analysts.

"Now I am aware that we should not rely too much on ourselves. You will see what I mean by this when we market the 3DS and the Wii in the future."

Wow, even coming from Iwata this is surprising.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Irwebcast isn't listing an event for right now on their Nintendo section. Im guessing they will be uploading something afterwards.

Financial Times must have gotten it wrong on there being a live presentation.

Anything said though should make its way out relatively fast as it always hasthough

There probably is a live presentation, but no one here is in the loop to know where to see it.

So will have to rely on it being uploaded later for public record as before, or comments from people at the meeting afterwards.

Unless that random person on Twitter was telling the truth and goes mad with tweets all the way through it without being taken out by ninjas first.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

The PS2 was a bigger success than the Wii was. I'm not sure but I would guess that the PS1 was as well.

The Wii if it had both good graphics and motion controls I think could have easily surpassed the PS2 in sales. It could have wound up with a much richer and more appealing library, and could have truly pleased many different types of gamers.

Having long legs is not an abnormal cycle. Due to diminishing returns, and long dev times it's actually to be expected.

Sony and MS are selling really well right now and making a lot of cash. That's why they are not transitioning to next gen already. It's only Wii who's sales peaked two-three years ago and haven't recovered since.

They are not transitioning to next gen because they are barely recuperating their costs. Dev times fluctuate so much based on scope and budget that it's IMPOSSIBLE to use them as a gauge of platform longevity.

You threw out the term diminishing returns for whatever reason. Why?

 

[DarkWish]

There probably is a live presentation, but no one here is in the loop to know where to see it.

So will have to rely on it being uploaded later for public record as before, or comments from people at the meeting afterwards.

Unless that random person on Twitter was telling the truth and goes mad with tweets all the way through it without being taken out by ninjas first.

What person on Twitter?

 

[Stephen Colbert]

In a parallel universe, Nintendo released the Wii Colbert Edition for $599.

No in a parallel universe, Nintendo released the Wii Colbert Edition with motion controls, a dual core IBM powerPC and a cutting edge ATI gpu similar to the one in the Xbox 360, and launched it for $299 for the basic edition and $399 for a high end edition with a hard drive, just like Microsoft did.

It would have been impossible to find at launch and for several months afterwards. And then they would have dropped $50 from teh price tag an year or two into the consoles life cycle.

In that alternate universe, the Wii was a smash hit both with casual gamers that loved motion controls, and with core gamers that loved all the third party support it was getting.

Every multiplatform game came out on this Wii, not just on the PS3 and 360, the console didn't peak 2-3 years into it's life cycle like the original Wii did.

And because of how broad the appeal of the console is, not just with casuals but also with core gamers, that console would have easily went on to surpass the PS2 to be the best selling console of all time. It didn't have a huge sales drop off two years in a row, and casual gamers, core gamers, Nintendo, developers would have all been very pleased with the console.

My point is that Nintendo would have wound up making more money in the long run in that scenario.

 

[Freezie KO]

"I now regret that we didn't tie up with someone outside the company to market the Wii. If we had done that, the fate of the Wii might have been different," Chief Executive Satoru Iwata said at a conference for investors and analysts.

The companies they need to team up with are third-parties. I hope that was the major lesson that Nintendo is taking away from "the fate of the Wii."

Wii had some of the best free marketing out there. It was a household name, in movies, in television shows. It's hard to buy that marketing was the decisive factor in the decline of Wii.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

Iwata announced 2 hours ago upcoming alliances to market its consoles.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/26/us-nintendo-idUSTRE73O0RY20110426

Google, then.

 

[Christine]

I don't see how it is at all disagreeable to characterize Wii ... Sports as shovelware.

1. It's sold more than 2.5 million copies in Japan, where it was not bundled
2. It was integral to the value proposition that drove the Wii to unprecedented sales in its first three years.
3. Its development cost is hard to define, as it's inextricably enmeshed with the R&D costs for the controller, but it wasn't exactly cheap.

To characterize Wii Sports as shovelware is either a complete failure to understand the meaning of the term, or a psychotic attempt to redefine it. Wii Sports is certainly a legitimate target for criticism - one might quite fairly say that it lacks depth of content, or that its use of motion gameplay is primitive.

Calling it shovelware is just fucking silly. Shovelware is an attempt to maximize return on investment by making every attempt possible to minimize the "investment" part of the equation. You make a game as cheaply as possible and as quickly as possible for a platform that's already successful, so as to maximize its potential exposure.

Wii Sports is literally the diametric opposite of shovelware. It was the software portion of an intense development focus, carried a high degree of risk and uncertainty as a product, and contributed significantly to creating a successful platform.

 

[justchris]

No in a parallel universe, Nintendo released the Wii Colbert Edition with motion controls, a dual core IBM powerPC and a cutting edge ATI gpu similar to the one in the Xbox 360, and launched it for $299 for the basic edition and $399 for a high end edition with a hard drive, just like Microsoft did.

That wouldn't have happened. The Nintendo that existed in 2005 would never have released two versions of a console simultaneously. I don't think the Nintendo of today will, either. It really isn't smart either financially or logistically.

 

[jman2050]

My point is that Nintendo would have wound up making more money in the long run in that scenario.

Except this isn't the case.

 

[DECK'ARD]

No in a parallel universe, Nintendo released the Wii Colbert Edition with motion controls, a dual core IBM powerPC and a cutting edge ATI gpu similar to the one in the Xbox 360, and launched it for $299 for the basic edition and $399 for a high end edition with a hard drive, just like Microsoft did.

It would have been impossible to find at launch and for several months afterwards. And then they would have dropped $50 from teh price tag an year or two into the consoles life cycle.

In that alternate universe, the Wii was a smash hit both with casual gamers that loved motion controls, and with core gamers that loved all the third party support it was getting.

Every multiplatform game came out on this Wii, not just on the PS3 and 360, the console didn't peak 2-3 years into it's life cycle like the original Wii did.

And because of how broad the appeal of the console is, not just with casuals but also with core gamers, that console would have easily went on to surpass the PS2 to be the best selling console of all time. It didn't have a huge sales drop off two years in a row, and casual gamers, core gamers, Nintendo, developers would have all been very pleased with the console.

My point is that Nintendo would have wound up making more money in the long run in that scenario.

You are clearly mad.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

No in a parallel universe, Nintendo released the Wii Colbert Edition with motion controls, a dual core IBM powerPC and a cutting edge ATI gpu similar to the one in the Xbox 360, and launched it for $299 for the basic edition and $399 for a high end edition with a hard drive, just like Microsoft did.

It would have been impossible to find at launch and for several months afterwards. And then they would have dropped $50 from teh price tag an year or two into the consoles life cycle.

In that alternate universe, the Wii was a smash hit both with casual gamers that loved motion controls, and with core gamers that loved all the third party support it was getting.

Every multiplatform game came out on this Wii, not just on the PS3 and 360, the console didn't peak 2-3 years into it's life cycle like the original Wii did.

And because of how broad the appeal of the console is, not just with casuals but also with core gamers, that console would have easily went on to surpass the PS2 to be the best selling console of all time. It didn't have a huge sales drop off two years in a row, and casual gamers, core gamers, Nintendo, developers would have all been very pleased with the console.

My point is that Nintendo would have wound up making more money in the long run in that scenario.

Wow. So you'd want Nintendo to lose money like Sony and Micro. Good plan. Investors would love you.

 

[TekkenMaster]

I'm still reading conflicting reports about whether Nintendo has ever actually streamed one of these conferences live.

I want to believe.

 

[Speevy]

Wii Sports is definitely not shovelware.


If you ask me, a good developer can make a decent game. So I'd call shovelware what they get those "other" teams to make.

 

[DarkWish]

I'm still reading conflicting reports about whether Nintendo has ever actually streamed one of these conferences live.

I want to believe.

As far as I remember, they have not been streamed live... but they put them up in full video form (and also in text form) later, both in Japanese and in English.

 

[Freezie KO]

I'm still reading conflicting reports about whether Nintendo has ever actually streamed one of these conferences live.

That's the whole point of the new Stream Controllers.

 

[Pre]

Twitter and Google searches produce nothing.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I'm still reading conflicting reports about whether Nintendo has ever actually streamed one of these conferences live.

I want to believe.

They apparently do, but only to the people that matter. And seeing as we don't have any investors around here spilling the beans we aren't going to see it.

For everyone else we have to wait until they post it on their site sometime afterwards, or wait for investors to talk. This is how all the new things announced at them in the past have been discussed before.

There's more focus on this event than previous ones, but there was just a random post on Twitter from someone who was (allegedly) attending it. We don't know any other connections to anyone actually at the event, and I've forgotten who that Twitter bloke was now.

 

[justchris]

My point is that Nintendo would have wound up making more money in the long run in that scenario.

Except this isn't the case.

There is no way to make an absolute definitive statement either way. His option does have the potential to have been more profitable than the current situation, but he's ignoring a lot of variables that may not have been at all different. The most significant ones being the cost of R&D and the price of components. But aside from his ridiculous shovelware statements, his contention is not unreasonable.

 

[Jackano]

I'm still reading conflicting reports about whether Nintendo has ever actually streamed one of these conferences live.

I want to believe.

I don't think it was live. I'm sure there will be a video with the slides alongside correctly timecoded but it will take a little time to be online.

 

[Utako]

There needs to be a game that involves pre-event hype on the Internet.

 

[Nickovic]

So, is there a conference happening soon? Or has it happened?

 

[DarkWish]

There's more focus on this event than previous ones, but there was just a random post on Twitter from someone who was (allegedly) attending it. We don't know any other connections to anyone actually at the event, and I've forgotten who that Twitter bloke was now.

Are you talking about the analyst, Jesse Divnich? If so, he has said nothing on Twitter, I don't think he's attending the event. Curiously though, his tweets about wanting to play a system early are now gone.

 

[StevePharma]

How long do these conferences usually last, depending on questions probably from the audience but still...1 hour max?

 

[Glass Joe]

No in a parallel universe, Nintendo released the Wii Colbert Edition with motion controls, a dual core IBM powerPC and a cutting edge ATI gpu similar to the one in the Xbox 360, and launched it for $299 for the basic edition and $399 for a high end edition with a hard drive, just like Microsoft did.

It would have been impossible to find at launch and for several months afterwards. And then they would have dropped $50 from teh price tag an year or two into the consoles life cycle.

In that alternate universe, the Wii was a smash hit both with casual gamers that loved motion controls, and with core gamers that loved all the third party support it was getting.

Every multiplatform game came out on this Wii, not just on the PS3 and 360, the console didn't peak 2-3 years into it's life cycle like the original Wii did.

And because of how broad the appeal of the console is, not just with casuals but also with core gamers, that console would have easily went on to surpass the PS2 to be the best selling console of all time. It didn't have a huge sales drop off two years in a row, and casual gamers, core gamers, Nintendo, developers would have all been very pleased with the console.

My point is that Nintendo would have wound up making more money in the long run in that scenario.

Your alternate universe doesn't sound very profitable for Nintendo though, when in reality they made a killing with the Wii. Didn't 360 consoles lose money to start? Wii was profitable and affordable to a mass audience right out of the gate. I don't think Nintendo ever planned on changing their cycle (which is new console every 5 or 6 years). Now that 360/PS3 have hit their stride with a longer term cycle plan, Nintendo's got a new toy to divert attention and start their cycle over again. If it has slightly more power than what the competition has got and plays its cards right, they'll get the definitive port of every game until PS4 / Xbox 720. So Sony/Microsoft will have to change their plans or suffer. Either way they're likely to be disrupted from their original plan.

Nintendo's only misstep this gen was the 3rd party support dried up sooner than they would have liked.

 

[TekkenMaster]

They apparently do, but only to the people that matter. And seeing as we don't have any investors around here spilling the beans we aren't going to see it.

For everyone else we have to wait until they post it on their site sometime afterwards, or wait for investors to talk. This is how all the new things announced at them in the past have been discussed before.

There's more focus on this event than previous ones, but there was just a random post on Twitter from someone who was (allegedly) attending it. We don't know any other connections to anyone actually at the event, and I've forgotten who that Twitter bloke was now.

Would be nice to have an insider right about now, lol.

 

[mj1108]

Might want to keep an eye out here: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/index.html

That's where they put up videos of these things.

 

[Shiggy]

There's nothing happening today except for the final cancellation of Xenoblade in the States

 

[TekkenMaster]

So, is there a conference happening soon? Or has it happened?

Happening now (according to the schedule) but no one has found a live stream.

 

[luffeN]

Might want to keep an eye out here: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/index.html

That's where they put up videos of these things.

Nice, thx!

 

[rpmurphy]

Might want to keep an eye out here: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/index.html

That's where they put up videos of these things.

Also check here: http://www.e-news.jp/irforum/company/7974.html
Although, I dunno which site gets updated first.

 

[shadyspace]

Man, there's really not one dude in the room who's tweeting out in english? Digital age, my ass.

EDIT: Actually, doesn't even need to be in English. Somebody else could translate, just get the info out there.

 

[neoanarch]

They apparently do, but only to the people that matter. And seeing as we don't have any investors around here spilling the beans we aren't going to see it.

For everyone else we have to wait until they post it on their site sometime afterwards, or wait for investors to talk. This is how all the new things announced at them in the past have been discussed before.

There's more focus on this event than previous ones, but there was just a random post on Twitter from someone who was (allegedly) attending it. We don't know any other connections to anyone actually at the event, and I've forgotten who that Twitter bloke was now.

Was this the dude talking about playing with a DS at the conference? i wouldn't take it seriously he referred to it as a "press" conference.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

Nevermind. Wrong stream.

 

[DECK'ARD]

There needs to be a game that involves pre-event hype on the Internet.

Game Dev Story 2.

BELIEVE.

It would also allow Colbert to try out all his fantasy scenarios For Nintendo as well, without the real world concerns of massive losses and consoles cooking themselves to death.

 

[Christine]

There is no way to make an absolute definitive statement either way. His option does have the potential to have been more profitable than the current situation, but he's ignoring a lot of variables that may not have been at all different. The most significant ones being the cost of R&D and the price of components. But aside from his ridiculous shovelware statements, his contention is not unreasonable.

It's no more unreasonable than any other counterfactual alternate history constructed from a perspective of 20:20 hindsight. Let's assume he's correct for a moment; does it necessarily follow that it would have been reasonable or rational for Nintendo to take that course of action - given the information available to them in 2005?

 

[Mael]

No in a parallel universe, Nintendo released the Wii Colbert Edition with motion controls, a dual core IBM powerPC and a cutting edge ATI gpu similar to the one in the Xbox 360, and launched it for $299 for the basic edition and $399 for a high end edition with a hard drive, just like Microsoft did.

It would have been impossible to find at launch and for several months afterwards. And then they would have dropped $50 from teh price tag an year or two into the consoles life cycle.

In that alternate universe, the Wii was a smash hit both with casual gamers that loved motion controls, and with core gamers that loved all the third party support it was getting.

Every multiplatform game came out on this Wii, not just on the PS3 and 360, the console didn't peak 2-3 years into it's life cycle like the original Wii did.

And because of how broad the appeal of the console is, not just with casuals but also with core gamers, that console would have easily went on to surpass the PS2 to be the best selling console of all time. It didn't have a huge sales drop off two years in a row, and casual gamers, core gamers, Nintendo, developers would have all been very pleased with the console.

My point is that Nintendo would have wound up making more money in the long run in that scenario.

They probably would have closed by now, seriously in 2007 ALONE Sony lost as much money as they've earned since they entered the gaming market!

 

[onQ123]

The PS2 was a bigger success than the Wii was. I'm not sure but I would guess that the PS1 was as well.

The Wii if it had both good graphics and motion controls I think could have easily surpassed the PS2 in sales. It could have wound up with a much richer and more appealing library, and could have truly pleased many different types of gamers.

Having long legs is not an abnormal cycle. Due to diminishing returns, and long dev times it's actually to be expected.

Sony and MS are selling really well right now and making a lot of cash. That's why they are not transitioning to next gen already. It's only Wii who's sales peaked two-three years ago and haven't recovered since.

The Wii still has a chance to pass both of them it just had a price drop & it sells over 15 million a year it's at 86 million now when it hits $99 people will be buying them for no good reason giving them away as gifts PS2 sold 50M after the release of the Xbox 360 so the wii has a few years left in it if nintendo don't turn it's back on it for the new console.

 

[Pre]

I put the kanji for Nintendo into twitter and have another tab open to translate everything there into English.

 

[cw_sasuke]

The Wii still has a chance to pass both of them it just had a price drop & it sells over 15 million a year it's at 86 million now when it hits $99 people will be buying them for no good reason giving them away as gifts PS2 sold 50M after the release of the Xbox 360 so the wii has a few years left in it if nintendo don't turn it's back on it for the new console.

It will pass the psone - but the ps2 cant be touched right now. With Project Cafe comin and MS/Sonys motion efforts Wii sales will continue to decline. I dont think Nintendo will drop the price to 99 dollars.

 

[TekkenMaster]

I put the kanji for Nintendo into twitter and have another tab open to translate everything there into English.

Good thinking. I've been refreshing http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/index.html every 30 seconds or so.

 

[Jinfash]

Wow, even coming from Iwata this is surprising.

I was about to comment on that, it certainly doesn't suit where they are positioned in today's market.

Saying something like that ahead of the investor's meeting, on the back of a generation where Nintendo is arguably profitable more than ever, pulling healthy HW and SW numbers regardless of 3rd party support, is worrisome. Without the proper context, he sounds kind of defeated in that quote.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Nintendo's only misstep this gen was the 3rd party support dried up sooner than they would have liked.

The 3rd party situation wasn't really Nintendo's misstep though. They'd already decided to go one way before the Wii even launched. It was always going to be catch 22, and the higher the costs got on one side the less of a concern the Wii became because to take any resources away from HD development was to make things even riskier.

Nintendo bucked the system and scored bigger than even they could have imagined, and now they just walk into HD development on the backs of Sony and Microsoft after they and publishers shouldered the very costly burden of the move to HD. The 3rd party situation will fix itself automatically because of the desire for a feasible 3rd revenue stream to reduce the high risks.

Nice and ridiculously profitable strategy by Nintendo.

 

[DarkWish]

I put the kanji for Nintendo into twitter and have another tab open to translate everything there into English.

I have that, and tabs in Twitter for Nintendo and Iwata. Still nothing. Hopefully someone talks soon.

 

[justchris]

It's no more unreasonable than any other counterfactual alternate history constructed from a perspective of 20:20 hindsight. Let's assume he's correct for a moment; does it necessarily follow that it would have been reasonable or rational for Nintendo to take that course of action - given the information available to them in 2005?

No, it would not have been reasonable for Nintendo to take that action with the information they had available, but I thought what were discussing was the alternate reality where they made a more powerful system and whether or not it would have been more profitable for Nintendo.

Which I think is a possibility, although not with the specific configuration Stephen Colbert suggested. But eh, it's idle speculation since we obviously can't change the past. However, that speculation can, theoretically, inform the future, which is the point of this thread.