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[Mael]

Again, you're ignoring the facts.

I'm ignoring the facts? this is rich!

It is a fact that the Gamecube was being sold for a mere $99 just an year or two into it's life.

It is a fact that the Wii launched at $249, a full four years later, with an overclocked version of what's in the game cube.

Basic math dictates that they could have roughly doubled the transistor count, or hell just stuck dual GC cpus and GC gpus in the thing , and still kept the cost under $200. That is at the bare minimum, given the four year gap, they probably could've done a hell of a lot more than that.

Claiming that Wii couldn't be anymore powerful than it was and manufactured for less than $249 or even $199 is just outright delusional. The components in it are a hell of a lot cheaper than that.

You like ignoring the fact that what you're advocating is basically for the Wii to have the 360 architecture, because it would have had the exact same Cpu and the gpu would have to match it or it would have been pointless.
Now either MSFT had the shittiest deal in the history of shitty deals when they released their 500bucks system or what you say is complete bollocks.

 

[Death Dealer]

I'm excited about the news and look forward to seeing what they have to offer.

Do you all think that this will somewhat encourage MS and Sony to release some info at E3? I think they may wait to see what Nintendo shows first and then try to one-up them.

I think it's too early for them to start talking about their own next gen systems.
They'll just try and hype their games. Wii 2 is still a year from launching. Next E3 however, I expect they will do everything in their power to downplay Nintendo's new system, call it a half measure, whatever, and promise how much better their new systems will be than Nintendo's.

 

[Metallix]

No eShop launch date is disappointing.

Still, free Excitebike 3D is nice.

 

[Mael]

No eShop launch date is disappointing.

Still, free Excitebike 3D is nice.

What do they mean by Excitebike 3D anyway?
it's the 2d game in 3D or the 3d game in 3d?

 

[dwu8991]

No eShop launch date is disappointing.

Still, free Excitebike 3D is nice.

Wat?

 

[DECK'ARD]

I'm excited about the news and look forward to seeing what they have to offer.

Do you all think that this will somewhat encourage MS and Sony to release some info at E3? I think they may wait to see what Nintendo shows first and then try to one-up them.

1) Someone at Sony will laugh off Nintendo, use a bad put-down, then bang on a bit about NGP+PS3 connectivity
2) Microsoft will go: "KINECT KINECT KINECT CAN'T HEAR YOU KINECT KINECT KINECT"

Both want this generation to continue for a while, and won't take the attention off current products.

 

[Kandinsky]

It's going to be a long 42 days

Long and painful D:

 

[Glass Joe]

What do they mean by Excitebike 3D anyway?
it's the 2d game in 3D or the 3d game in 3d?

Pretty sure it's the 8-bit game with 3D added. With the way Excitebike is designed, it'll probably look pretty cool.

 

[Metallix]

What do they mean by Excitebike 3D anyway?
it's the 2d game in 3D or the 3d game in 3d?

It's a 3D Classic. Thus, it's the original NES Excitebike in 3D.

 

[cw_sasuke]

What do they mean by Excitebike 3D anyway?
it's the 2d game in 3D or the 3d game in 3d?

The NES title as a 3D classic.

 

[lordfroakie]

Long and painful D:

Look at the bright side, the days will go by faster...

 

[Metallix]

Pretty sure it's the 8-bit game with 3D added. With the way Excitebike is designed, it'll probably look pretty cool.

I agree. It's probably a really smart choice as the free game, as it will show off the benefit of the 3D Classics well.

 

[Mael]

Pretty sure it's the 8-bit game with 3D added. With the way Excitebike is designed, it'll probably look pretty cool.

It's a 3D Classic. Thus, it's the original NES Excitebike in 3D.

Ah didn't know that, pretty cool then.
Would have been cool either way.

Btw isn't Cafe pretty much a response to the whole tablet gaming anyway?

 

[Freezie KO]

Wat?

Iwata said that they will be using free classic games as an incentive for users to try out the 3DS functions that Nintendo wants to take hold, such as StreetPass, SpotPass, and the eShop.

Supposedly, Excitebike 3D was one of the titles mentioned as an example. I've seen no confirmation that is definitely the title or the only title that will be used as a carrot on a stick.

 

[swerve]

Pretty sure it's the 8-bit game with 3D added. With the way Excitebike is designed, it'll probably look pretty cool.

You can already get a good feel for how it will look by using the ExciteBike visualiser built into the 3DS Sound app.

The 3D is *deeeeep*

 

[[Nintex]]

I agree that Nintendo could've launched something between Wii(GC tech) and Xbox 360. But Nintendo put their focus on backwards compatiblity, interface, control and quite a generous profit margin. Not to mention that Wii still wouldn't have been an Xbox 360 so you've got to wonder how much it would've helped them with downports of popular titles in the long run and increased development costs.

What Nintendo could've done is increase the embedded RAM on the GPU and got their games to run at 720p. Soul Calibur and a bunch of other Xbox games had such options so there's no reason a $250 system in 2006 shouldn't have had such features. Still it wouldn't have helped with geometry or anything but games would've looked much better on HD screens.

 

[Mael]

I agree that Nintendo could've launched something between Wii(GC tech) and Xbox 360. But Nintendo put their focus on backwards compatiblity, interface, control and quite a generous profit margin. Not to mention that Wii still wouldn't have been an Xbox 360 so you've got to wonder how much it would've helped them with downports of popular titles in the long run and increased development costs.

What Nintendo could've done is increase the embedded RAM on the GPU and got their games to run at 720p. Soul Calibur and a bunch of other Xbox games had such options so there's no reason a $250 system in 2006 shouldn't have had such features. Still it wouldn't have helped with geometry or anything but games would've looked much better on HD screens.

And thus would still have gotten none of the 3rd party support it's lacking now.
I mean it still would have meant that AssCreed and R* games wouldn't have been made for it or all the others.

 

[MYE]

sigh....

sigh

 

[[Nintex]]

And thus would still have gotten none of the 3rd party support it's lacking now.
I mean it still would have meant that AssCreed and R* games wouldn't have been made for it or all the others.

It would've been much more pleasing to the eye though

 

[Mael]

It would've been much more pleasing to the eye though

that goes without saying

 

[Oni Link 666]

Excitebike 3D sounds cool. That's the coolest visualizer. What I really want to do though, is play the Excitebike visualizer with a track generated by the music I'm playing.

 

[Jackano]

Speaking of which, what's GAF guesstimate for the eshop release?
We know it's "May" but, early May, late May, delayed to June?

 

[DECK'ARD]

Excitebike 3D sounds cool. That's the coolest visualizer. What I really want to do though, is play the Excitebike visualizer with a track generated by the music I'm playing.

An interactive demonstration of the evil of autotune

 

[Graphics Horse]

Pretty sure it's the 8-bit game with 3D added. With the way Excitebike is designed, it'll probably look pretty cool.

It's probably based on Excitebike World Rally for Wiiware. Edit: yeah or the DSi/3DS visualiser gfx.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcNSflPXExI&feature=related

But the visuals might have been tweaked to resemble the NES game. You can't really make the track 3D without ruining the pixel art.
Alternatively they just displace the scroll position of the NES version's parralax grandstand.

 

[brain_stew]

I'm ignoring the facts? this is rich!



You like ignoring the fact that what you're advocating is basically for the Wii to have the 360 architecture, because it would have had the exact same Cpu and the gpu would have to match it or it would have been pointless.
Now either MSFT had the shittiest deal in the history of shitty deals when they released their 500bucks system or what you say is complete bollocks.

Except he's not. All Nintendo needed was a system that could support the same development paradigm in SD. It could have been nearly 10x slower than the 360 and still capture the vast majority of multiplatform releases, so long as it was using modern hardware and targetting SD resolutions. Something like an x1400 and a dual core Xenon CPU s at 2ghz would have done. That would have been cheap and low power all the same but it wouldn't have alienated third parties by requiring them to rework their entire engine and asset pipeline in order to support the console.

The debate is over, the Stream is a keen admition from Nintendo that using 90s technology was the wrong move. They could have had all the momentum out the gate and maintained it if they had went with modern technology with the same conservative mindset.

 

[MatthewB92]

It's probably based on Excitebike World Rally for Wiiware.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcNSflPXExI&feature=related

But the visuals might have been tweaked to resemble the NES game. You can't really make the track 3D without ruining the pixel art.
Alternatively they just displace the scroll position of the NES version's parralax grandstand.

3D classics will be based on there NES/SNES games. Nintendo showed them at E3 last year.

 

[radioheadrule83]

The debate is over, the Stream is a keen admition from Nintendo that using 90s technology was the wrong move.

Not really. It's more like tacit recognition that they've exploited the GC/Wii technology all they can, and that said technology won't suffice for a new machine released in 2012.

The debate about what level of performance the Wii should have had, and how it would have consequently performed is interesting, but its also purely hypothetical and largely pointless.

 

[Graphics Horse]

3D classics will be based on there NES/SNES games. Nintendo showed them at E3 last year.

Yeah, I'm still trying to understand the point of some of them though, and how much the visuals would have to be redesigned. What does 3D add to Metroid 1?

 

[[Nintex]]

I wonder what type of games will emerge from the partnerships that Nintendo is looking at. I'd like third party support on Nintendo machines but it might be cool if they hand out some of their B-tier franchises to outside teams as well. Get some US dev to do a new Battalion Wars or find someone to pick up the Eternal Darkness franchise. Also give StarFox to Kamiya already last time he almost begged for it.

Unless Nintendo means a partnership beyond game development like Steam integration or Android on their next console. That would show a real 'change' in the mindset of Nintendo.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Except he's not. All Nintendo needed was a system that could support the same development paradigm in SD. It could have been nearly 10x slower than the 360 and still capture the vast majority of multiplatform releases, so long as it was using modern hardware and targetting SD resolutions. Something like an x1400 and a dual core Xenon CPU s at 2ghz would have done. That would have been cheap and low power all the same but it wouldn't have alienated third parties by requiring them to rework their entire engine and asset pipeline in order to support the console.

The debate is over, the Stream is a keen admition from Nintendo that using 90s technology was the wrong move. They could have had all the momentum out the gate and maintained it if they had went with modern technology with the same conservative mindset.

He's not even saying that, he's talking about duct taping two Wiis together. Seriously.

 

[gerg]

Not really. It's more like tacit recognition that they've exploited the GC/Wii technology all they can, and that said technology won't suffice for a new machine released in 2012.

I don't think that painting the picture so rosily is very accurate. Sure, getting a jump on the competition is great, but I also believe that Nintendo is launching earlier than even they would want to with the Wii's falling sales.

The debate about what level of performance the Wii should have had, and how it would have consequently performed is interesting, but its also purely hypothetical and largely pointless.

Most debates are purely hypothetical and therefore pointless.

 

[MatthewB92]

Yeah, I'm still trying to understand the point of some of them though, and how much the visuals would have to be redesigned. What does 3D add to Metroid 1?

Have no clue but we will find out.

 

[Mael]

Except he's not. All Nintendo needed was a system that could support the same development paradigm in SD. It could have been nearly 10x slower than the 360 and still capture the vast majority of multiplatform releases, so long as it was using modern hardware and targetting SD resolutions. Something like an x1400 and a dual core Xenon CPU s at 2ghz would have done.

Except that there was no way that IBM would have produced anything more powerful than Broadway as far as PowerPC 750 existed.
sure they could have gone with the 7400 series or the 970 series but they would have probably had to make the compatibility layer themselve anyway.
And it's not like they were cheap back then.

The debate is over, the Stream is a keen admition from Nintendo that using 90s technology was the wrong move. They could have had all the momentum out the gate and maintained it if they had went with modern technology with the same conservative mindset.

Actually the debate was over when MSFT announced Kinect and Sony pushed for Move.
They basically forced their competitors not only to change course but to actually support the values they pushed while AT THE SAME TIME abandonning their own.
They've really won on all side, now if Nintendo decide to forget all the lessons learned with the Wii/DS that's their problem.

 

[Glass Joe]

The debate is over, the Stream is a keen admition from Nintendo that using 90s technology was the wrong move.

Except it's not. They're releasing a new console after 5 1/2 years, which is pretty much what they've ALWAYS done. Not sure why them jumping to the next generation while others aren't is deemed an admission of anything.

Their Wiis' have always turned a profit, which is a pretty big deal when you think about it. Their competitors started by selling their machines at a loss to compete and still sold less. Just because Nintendo's technology wasn't exactly what you wanted doesn't mean that they weren't successful.

 

[Chuck Norris]

Yes but they are still expecting at least 10 million sales for this fiscal year. With the price cut coming and possibly some more interesting games this is not unrealistic. It also means the 2 years after that it is at least going to sell 10-15 million (7 in 2012 and 4-5? in 2013). It isn't just going to stop you know.

And what makes you think it will continue? With Wii sales being at an all-time low right now and Nintendo consoles having a history of coming to a stand still as soon as the next system is out, why would Wii continue selling? This Holiday will be the last big period for Wii I think, and even then it won't reach the heights it has every other year.

There is a chance that Wii could do like the PS2 did and continue momentum, but I don't think Wii has the depth of software and continued third party support to sustain that like PS2 did.

 

[Instro]

I've always kind of been curious as to why Nintendo just decided to go with modified GC hardware for the Wii. Where they being cautious in case the system failed? Or perhaps their decision on what the console would actually be came so late that they had no choice but to just use hardware they already had?

Its not like they were short on money at the time. Its not like they knew from the get go that the Wii would be such a massive hit that it wouldn't matter if the console was completley underpowered.

 

[brain_stew]

Except that there was no way that IBM would have produced anything more powerful than Broadway as far as PowerPC 750 existed.
sure they could have gone with the 7400 series or the 970 series but they would have probably had to make the compatibility layer themselve anyway.
And it's not like they were cheap back then.



Actually the debate was over when MSFT announced Kinect and Sony pushed for Move.
They basically forced their competitors not only to change course but to actually support the values they pushed while AT THE SAME TIME abandonning their own.
They've really won on all side, now if Nintendo decide to forget all the lessons learned with the Wii/DS that's their problem.

GCN compatability would have been dropped, that goes without saying. There was no value in that library going forward anyway. Nintendo effectively exchanged BC for third party support, that wouldn't have been a smart trade even if the GCN had a commercially compelling library.

 

[Glass Joe]

Yeah, I'm still trying to understand the point of some of them though, and how much the visuals would have to be redesigned. What does 3D add to Metroid 1?

Yeah I wonder if anyone who saw the demos at E3 could shed some light to this. I can't imagine any part of Metroid NES looking 3D. Or Mega Man, or really almost any NES game they had demoed. Excitebike is one of the titles that makes sense though.

 

[gerg]

GCN compatability would have been dropped, that goes without saying. There was no value in that library going forward anyway. Nintendo effectively exchanged BC for third party support, that wouldn't have been a smart trade even if the GCN had a commercially compelling library.

Hindsight is 20/20 - rewinding the clock five years when Nintendo has no idea or not if the Wii would be successful, and attaching the GCN library to the Wii at least gives them a failsafe (even if it would be very thin) if the Wii crashes and burns.

It's true that after X years of smashing success the GCN backwards compatibility can be safely dropped, but that doesn't really help the Wii (in terms of redesigns) when it's already been designed to be as small and as compact as it pretty much can be.

 

[neoanarch]

I've always kind of been curious as to why Nintendo just decided to go with modified GC hardware for the Wii. Where they being cautious in case the system failed? Or perhaps their decision on what the console would actually be came so late that they had no choice but to just use hardware they already had?

Its not like they were short on money at the time. Its not like they knew from the get go that the Wii would be such a massive hit that it wouldn't matter if the console was completley underpowered.

The wiimote was originally conceived as a peripheral for the GCN. My understanding was that they had a "HD" system in the works but decided to scrap it and focus on the wiimote.

 

[brain_stew]

Except it's not. They're releasing a new console after 5 1/2 years, which is pretty much what they've ALWAYS done. Not sure why them jumping to the next generation while others aren't is deemed an admission of anything.

Their Wiis' have always turned a profit, which is a pretty big deal when you think about it. Their competitors started by selling their machines at a loss to compete and still sold less. Just because Nintendo's technology wasn't exactly what you wanted doesn't mean that they weren't successful.

You think Nintendo is happy having the console with the greatest fall in history? Systems have only ever went onto a position of dominance from where the Wii was 3-4 years ago, for all they did fantastic to build that momentum, they were utterly hopeless as maintaining it.

Their hardware choice traded third party support for GCN BC, a similar machine would have had all the same positives but lack that major weakness that led to the sysyem's premature downfall.

 

[Luigiv]

He's not even saying that, he's talking about duct taping two Wiis together. Seriously.

Yep, which quite frankly wouldn't have worked, given the heat restraints of the tiny case. The system already runs frighteningly hot as it is.

Like Brainstew said, aiming for Gamecube BC was a mistake. It's ultimately what forced them to stick to Gekko and Flipper when they could just have easily gone with modern* laptop parts and still have meet the same size, efficiency and cost targets with an ultimately much more powerful and compliant system.

*Modern by 2006 standards of course.

 

[Mael]

GCN compatability would have been dropped, that goes without saying. There was no value in that library going forward anyway. Nintendo effectively exchanged BC for third party support, that wouldn't have been a smart trade even if the GCN had a commercially compelling library.

That would have been awfully stupid for one reason only :
- it was surprised hit.
Meaning that it was seen all over the world as failure in the making by 3rd parties from the get go.
they actually didn't consider it at all before a few years later not because of being underpowered but because of the control scheme being radically different.
It's not like having GTA IV would have helped Wii anyway.
If it didn't receive 3rd party support at least equal to the ps2 when the ps2 was in its last year when it was really more powerful than it, what makes you think bimping up the proc would have helped any?

 

[gerg]

The wiimote was originally conceived as a peripheral for the GCN. My understanding was that they had "HD" system in the works but decided to scrap it and focus on the wiimote.

Nintendo always has this kind of stuff in the works. Indeed, glasses-less 3D was in development for the GCN as well, if only to see what the technology could do. If the device isn't released by then it would surprise me if in 10 years time we all recollect on how the Vitality Sensor was originally going to be released for the Wii.

 

[DonMigs85]

Digital Foundry's article says the 3DS has 512MB RAM lol

 

[brain_stew]

Hindsight is 20/20 - rewinding the clock five years when Nintendo has no idea or not if the Wii would be successful, and attaching the GCN library to the Wii at least gives them a failsafe (even if it would be very thin) if the Wii crashes and burns.

It's true that after X years of smashing success the GCN backwards compatibility can be safely dropped, but that doesn't really help the Wii (in terms of redesigns) when it's already been designed to be as small and as compact as it pretty much can be.

This isn't some epiphany I've come up with overnight. I've been beating this drum for years now.

 

[gerg]

This isn't some epiphany I've come up with overnight. I've been beating this drum for years now.

Unless by years you mean "since the Wii's first full reveal" I'm not sure what the point is. I understand that, had the Wii been more powerful, it would be in a better position now than it is in reality - in fact, I even believe that Nintendo is launching the Wii2 sooner than they would prefer owing to this fact.

However, this shouldn't change my point that, when you go back to before the Wii's launch and subsequent success, attaching it (even remotely) to the GameCube may have had much more value when you have no idea that your next big idea would actually sell.

Because the Wii was originally planned as a stop-gap between GC and a full-on "HD" system, so they used the cheapest parts available, their warehouses full of unsold GCs Then Wii became massive...

I'm not sure I've ever read anything to support the idea that Nintendo considered the Wii as a "stop-gap" console. Do you have a source?

 

[KennyLinder]

I've always kind of been curious as to why Nintendo just decided to go with modified GC hardware for the Wii. Where they being cautious in case the system failed? Or perhaps their decision on what the console would actually be came so late that they had no choice but to just use hardware they already had?

Its not like they were short on money at the time. Its not like they knew from the get go that the Wii would be such a massive hit that it wouldn't matter if the console was completley underpowered.

Because the Wii was originally planned as a stop-gap between GC and a full-on "HD" system, so they used the cheapest parts available, their warehouses full of unsold GCs Then Wii became massive...

 

[swerve]

I now regret that we didn't tie up with someone outside the company to market the Wii. If we had done that, the fate of the Wii might have been different

...

Now I am aware that we should not rely too much on ourselves. You will see what I mean by this when we market the 3DS and the Wii in the future.

3rd party exclusives on the way...?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/...eedName=mnaNewsConsumerGoodsAndRetail&rpc=401

 

[Nirolak]

3rd party exclusives on the way...?

Either that or they're going to offer co-marketing to third parties to try and keep multiplatform titles showing up on the system.

My guess would actually be the latter since they had a fair amount of third party exclusives with the Wii, but got killed on not being included in the multiplatform party.