bgassassin
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DownWithTheShip said:
Live up to your username.
Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012
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DownWithTheShip
Member
Fernando Rocker said:
yes
BurntPork said:
That's exactly what people said about Wii launching at the same time as the PS3 and look what happened there. And I'll be very surprised if MS gets a new console together by the end of 2012.
And the multiplat support is just kind of whatever at this point. You think anyone is going to buy a U because it has a months old version of Batman on there? I don't think so.
bgassassin
Member
guek said:
Yeah since we didn't hear anything till April.
DownWithTheShip said:
Haha. Good response.
DownWithTheShip
Member
walking fiend said:
Units didn't actually go out to devs until January. I was originally under the impression that the system was going to be revealed sometime in January. Didn't expect that have to wait until E3 to finally hear about it.
Again, I have no direct involvement. Seeing the system at E3 was the first time I actually saw it, just like everyone else.
walking fiend
Member
Analysis said they didn't make much on the hardware, which actually makes sense, since they make a lot of money from software, and this year their profits aren't much, be
BurntPork said:
http://www.forbes.com/2008/11/28/nintendo-wii-wii2-tech-personal-cz-cs-1201wii.html
Forbes said:
Neoriceisgood
Member
As a person who only ever owned a SNES and WII, anyone got one of those fancy console prices through history charts for me to look at?
I'm curious where some of the consoles in previous generations ended up on the price scale.
I'm curious where some of the consoles in previous generations ended up on the price scale.
bgassassin
Member
guek said:
BOMs unfortunately leave a lot of other cost factors out. I think they are fine to look at, but not a proper representative of all costs involved.
DownWithTheShip said:
That to me would help explain why there were "holes" in the specs given to devs if they got them in January. That's a long way out to lock down specs.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
It's an indication that they're cutting corners. Let's take into consideration the following:BurntPork said:
- Dev rumors were that the processors in the controller were cheap and not powerful enough
- bgassassin and MDX have pretty compelling evidence that they are going with SoP or SoC - a much cheaper manufacturing process
- the technology of the touchscreen itself is antiquated and the same as the DS
- the lack of DVD and BluRay support
- 8GB internal storage
I could go on and on, but the most logical conclusion is that this thing will be slightly more powerful than 360/PS3.
bgassassin
Member
MadOdorMachine said:
Or it could be an indication they chose to put the money elsewhere besides internal flash.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
MadOdorMachine said:
I'm going to be quite honest, I think you could read the exact opposite into it as well: If they're cutting costs on everything else, they could be pouring resources into the power of the console itself. That wouldn't be affected by the screen, lack of BluRay support, or lack of storage. At the very least, we know it's got a lot more RAM than 360/PS3.
Edit: Beaten badly.
Nintendo may HAVE to go that route considering we're entering yet another recession. Putting out a $249/$299 console right now is going to be much more successful than an expensive superpowered console. People just don't have the money to spend any more.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
Want to believe but I'm not getting my hopes up. That's not to say I'm not fascinated by the tech and thankful for your research though. It's just my conclusion but I'll be very happy if I'm wrong and you're right about the power. Honestly, I'm prepared to be disappointed. It's depressing to me that devs can't even port PS2 games to PS3 with full 1080p and 60fps which is all I really want from Nintendo's first party games on Wii U. I could care less if the games no better than SMG but supported this. PS3 is more than capable of it so I'm curious what factors are stopping it. It's got me really discouraged at the moment and caused me to pretty much stop gaming on consoles.bgassassin said:Or it could be an indication they chose to put the money elsewhere besides internal flash.
bgassassin
Member
^ Nintendo seems to prefer spending on what they feel is necessary over anything else. With the notion that a gamer can just get his own storage, they wouldn't feel the need to put a lot of money in that area. At the same time they can design their case without the need to consider something like an internal HDD. I see them focusing on the CPU and GPU and balancing everything around that.
When I looked at this awhile back, newegg had drives that were up to 12x right now. That's 432Mbps (54MB/s). From what I've seen, that may still not be enough (or at least what devs might want) for streaming straight off the disc. We'll see what Nintendo has come up with though.
JJConrad said:
When I looked at this awhile back, newegg had drives that were up to 12x right now. That's 432Mbps (54MB/s). From what I've seen, that may still not be enough (or at least what devs might want) for streaming straight off the disc. We'll see what Nintendo has come up with though.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Apple did a good job convincing the world that capacitive touch screens are the only ones that work.
Nevermind the fact that resistive screens are better at some things, nope, the DS used it and thus it sucks.
Nevermind the fact that resistive screens are better at some things, nope, the DS used it and thus it sucks.
MadOdorMachine said:
The controller is not using "processors" in any traditional sense. It is a "dumb terminal" and receives all its processing power from the console, with only some kind of wireless proprietary technology as well as bluetooth inside to send/receive the signals.
The SoC/SoP portion is for the main console's guts, and it's likely the way everyone is moving. Take a look at the 360S and tell me if it's better than the original.
Not this again... Resistive vs capacitive is an argument for functionality (pinching+zooming on multitouch vs stylus) and durability (where Nintendo's choice makes more sense). I can understand the absolute need for multitouch on a tablet like the iPad, but we have a dozen buttons on this controller.
It's a "bluray" drive without the bluray license. The license could be offered by Nintendo or a third party like PowerDVD for a price. Or maybe it won't. Who cares? How many things under my TV set do I need to play video discs?
No argument there, it's a small amount of storage - *unless* (as indicated) you can simply plug a bog-standard supermarket SD/SDXC/USB drive and it will instantly add to that space. Like it does on the 3DS.
Yeah, your "logic" certainly wouldn't make Spock jealous.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I am not sure "I am keeping my expectations low" is a valid excuse for your above post where you clearly outlined things you consider logical.MadOdorMachine said:
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
I'm convinced those days of Nintendo are gone. Wii, DS and 3DS are all perfect examples. That's not to say the systems won't be capable of good graphics but since the GC, they haven't competed for graphics on that level again. It makes more sense to me that they'd cut corners to get a quicker ROI for their R&D. The quicker the machine makes them money the better off they are as a business. I'll still get a Wii U on day one I'm sure, but I'm trying to be realistic about this by looking at Nintendos trends lately. Keep in mind that they'll likely release this at $300 - $350 and remember they launched 3DS at $250 to make a profit.BurntPork said:
I have no doubt that Nintendo will release a very balanced, efficient machine. I just expect it to be a stop gap between now and next gen. This to me makes the most sense and as I've said, all I want is 1080p and 60fps. That's possible on PS3 so the ball's really in Nintendos court to support that.bgassassin said:
I've seen those too. (Isn't 54MB/s the write speed?). I know load times have been a concern for Nintendo for a long time, but I wonder how likely Nintendo is to use a 12x drive versus and 8x or something.bgassassin said:
That would still be several times faster than the current gen systems, but I could find how that compared to run the games with a pre-install off of a harddrive. Do you know what the read speeds are off of the 360 harddrives are?
If Nintendo had aimed to make the 3DS compete in power along with adding more flash storage, a capacitve screen, and whatever else it would need to satisfy you, it would have launched at $300 with Nintendo not having any way to go down without taking a massive loss. Making a 3DS on-par with Vita would not have worked out for them. And DS is a generational leap over GBA, so I don't see the issue there at all.MadOdorMachine said:
With a console, Nintendo can get away with launching at $300, practically breaking even, and still end up with a console 2-3x the current gen. (Yes, I'm factoring in the controller.) It also seems that Nintendo is taking more development feedback, and Iwata has given more that enough indication that he understands that underpowering the Wii cut its lifespan short and limited its potential.
bgassassin
Member
JJConrad said:
That should be for both read and write. I didn't think to search for 360's HDD specifically back when I did that. I do believe current HDDs have at or over twice the data transfer rate. I think as long as the option to do an install is available on your external drive, it may end up being a moot point.
I tried to find some firm numbers for the 360's HDD, but instead I found a video comparing its harddrive to its dvd drive.
http://gizmodo.com/5060689/xbox-360-dvd-vs-hard-drive
EDIT: Forgot that Wii U might be using USB 2.0 so using any gain using an external drive for an install may be minimal at best. Maybe they'll make one of those ports a USB 3.0.
That makes no sense at all:MadOdorMachine said:
- The controller doesn't even need any processing power. It only needs to decode audio and video. As long as it does that, it's good enough.
- SoCs and SoPs are not only cheaper (not to mention they aren't even necessarily cheaper as the yield goes down with more complex chips), they are also faster and more energy efficient.
- Capacitive versus resistive is a stupid argument, indicates nothing and leads nowhere. Both approaches have their indivitual pros and cons. For a device like the uPad, resistive seems to be the more sensible approach no matter how you look at it.
- DVD and Blu-ray support is about licenses, not technology. Nintendo could pay for those licenses, but that would make the device more expensive - and if they did, that would make the device itself more expensive for everyone, even though only a small percentage of the customers actually needs those features.
- 8GB is sufficient. Any more would be added cost for everyone with little benefit for anyone. See above for an explanation.
guek said:
I hope for christ sake.
I actually think that, if Nintendo would like to play this game (if they thought it was good for them), they could play the technology versus the others.
When you think about it, the GC was a great piece of hardware, not that less powerful than a XBOX, smaller and cheaper to produce.. Let's say they have a good tech again this time, with a more expansive console (299$ why not), less profit on it, maybe even zero profit for some month. Now let's imagine Microsoft and Sony play the humble card and release moderate consoles (that doesn't cost 600$ nor burn), 6 month, one year after the WiiU... Nintendo could almost have the same graphics i'm sure, and that's not counting the diminishing return thing.
But but but that means the ipdadmote doesn't cost a looot cause of the screen.
Forsaken82
Member
MadOdorMachine said:
You could remove Bluray support and Six Axis control from the playstation 3 and it would not make the system any less powerful than it already is.
Azure Dream
Member
ShockingAlberto said:
Some GAF posters have tried to convince me that capacitive touch screens are incredibly inaccurate and completely unsuitable for gaming. Nevermind the thousands of modern phone games and applications that accurately respond to touch input, including my phone's web browser, even when the links are incredibly tiny and I'm poking them with my finger.
Then I remember how inaccurate and unresponsive the 3DS's touch screen is when I try to use the browser, even with the stylus (although that could just be remarkably shitty software!).
The main selling points for resistive touch screens I've heard are that you can draw on them more accurately (on a 854x480 or so display/input, this is an incredibly attractive and important feature), and capacitive touch screens have issues with the skin types of some older people, according to Nintendo. This doesn't exactly seem to be a concern shared by every other modern electronics manufacturer in the world, but ok, I guess that's what a capacitive stylus is for! They can use that if they have input issues, the rest of us can just tap things naturally with our fingers, use multi-inputs, etc.
But again, some people on GAF want to act like things like pinch-zoom are totally unnaturally and unnecessary, that we'll never want to hit more than one button on a touch screen at once, and that if we used a capacitive touch screen, it would be so awful that taps on the top left would register on the bottom right, because they're just that bad. God, it's a wonder modern phones even work at all.
walking fiend
Member
They shouldn't be much faster than PC drives, if at all, and 54MB/s, if its average, is pretty good for even 7200RPM drives (though post 2010 versions, or RAID, etc, can be faster)JJConrad said:
Bending_Unit_22
Member
Not to copy a recent response to you, but not this again.MadOdorMachine said:
The DS and 3DS are perfectly in line with Nintendo's handheld philosophy. They are both roughly 2 generations behind in power like all Nintendo handhelds. They indicate nothing abnormal nor anything regarding Nintendo's next console.
On the console front the Wii is the one seriously underpowered system Nintendo has produced. They had their reasons for doing so like there being no need to push up hardware and software costs when SD TV's were still in most homes. Yes they benefited greatly but I've gotten the impression that Iwata understands how the Wii being seriously underpowered hurt Nintendo in the long run. Which would make sense, to argue the Wii did so well they should do it again not only made much more sense 2 years ago than it does today but also assumes Nintendo can catch lightning in a bottle again.
The 3DS stylus strikes me as very accurate with the browser, but it is somewhat unresponsive. That seems to be an issue with the software since it takes a second sometimes to recognize I've clicked something but smoothly moves the screen about.Kulock said:
To believe Nintendo was making $6 at launch is laughable. It was a evolution of Gamecube that was sold at $99 in 2003 lol. They were making a killing.
They will try to do exactly same with Wii U. Where as others will lose $100+ they are looking to make $100+ at launch. This will dicatate their hw choices. GPU tech from 2008 and so on. Small, quiet and cool box.
They will try to do exactly same with Wii U. Where as others will lose $100+ they are looking to make $100+ at launch. This will dicatate their hw choices. GPU tech from 2008 and so on. Small, quiet and cool box.
bgassassin
Member
Luckyman said:
Yay! More asinine stuff from you. You do know Nintendo was losing on the GC when they dropped it to $99 right? Of course not. Try to be a more effective troll at least.
DownWithTheShip, we need an update. Could you at least tell us what department you work in (seeing as you say to be uninvolved with the project)?
From what little you've said already, I'm guessing you're a hardware affiliate for Nintendo, seeing as you knew about dev kit releases etc.
Don't want to scare the fish away though, so I won't burrow anymore.
Last question though, when did you lean that your company held a WiiU? Is there a large department working on it?
From what little you've said already, I'm guessing you're a hardware affiliate for Nintendo, seeing as you knew about dev kit releases etc.
Don't want to scare the fish away though, so I won't burrow anymore.
Last question though, when did you lean that your company held a WiiU? Is there a large department working on it?
Luckyman said:
Vita also uses "GPU tech from 2008" (what an asinine way to look at it). It is selling at a loss.
To think they were making $100 at launch on a Wii is just as laughable as the rest of your post. There is more to the Wii than just the CPU/GPU. A lot more, in fact. Look at the BoM breakdown on the previous page. As inaccurate as it probably is, this is before you even consider retailer margin, shipping, etc. A $6 return isn't all that surprising, and it highlights why Sony as a company is in the position that it's in.
You've had better hit-and-runs than that.
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