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[guek]

well according to some, the wii u will only be ever capable of producing graphics on par with the HD zelda demo. That being 720p absolute maximum resolution, 30fps or lower, no AA ever (locked out by the hardware). So prepare yourself for the worst people, and forget any kinds of rumors or evidence or "facts" that may arise ever

 

[JJConrad]

I don't understand what you're getting at with games not taking advantage of the hardware. To me what they did was simple. They built a PC that would have approximately the same performance as Wii U. This means that the PC would on paper, have higher specs than Wii U. The results were that every game displayed at native 1080p and featured better effects than PS3/360. I'm going to leave the IGN article alone now. I wasn't expecting so much back lash about it, but perhaps I approached it from the wrong angle.

At the end of the day, my point is that the Wii U should be able to display the same graphics as PS3/360 but at a higher resolution, framerate and more effects.

You're all over the place here.

You've started out saying that WiiU won't be able to keep up with games designed for the other next-gen systems without significant sacrifices but then hang your hat on examples of PC games that are designed for current gen consoles. Those games don't accurately reflect PC games, they won't accurately reflect WiiU games. You admit that you think they're understating the system, but keep clinging to their results. It doesn't make sense.

Now, there will be plenty of ports that will only be higher-res, higher-framerate PS360 games on WiiU. Nobody is claiming otherwise. The 360 had tons of these too, but they can't be used as examples of the system's potential.

 

[Shanadeus]

.

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

Well there is one point made in that article. You can expect PS3/360 level graphics with better framerates and IQ. It will be a while before we start seeing engines flex their muscles on the thing. Not really any different from the previous generation.

I think the only point that can be taken from that article was that they had no idea what they were doing and were just seeking hits.They may have had insider knowledge on parts used in the dev kit, but that was in no way a valid comparison.

I don't understand what you're getting at with games not taking advantage of the hardware. To me what they did was simple. They built a PC that would have approximately the same performance as Wii U. This means that the PC would on paper, have higher specs than Wii U. The results were that every game displayed at native 1080p and featured better effects than PS3/360.

this is probably the most simplistic way of explaining it possible

The least that it should do is what you expected. Once they actually program specifically for the GPU, that is when you really start to notice the tremendous difference in graphics.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I hope there is at least 1 launch game that shows the Wii-U as a beastly machine, and the argument will no longer be about it being a beast, but just how much of a beast it is lol.

 

[Rolf NB]

You'd think people would know this, somehow, after years of watching these things. And yet..

So let's quantify that impact. PSUs these days have 85%+ efficiency. It could certainly be better in a closed box where the thing is designed exactly to target, unlike PCs, but hey, let me be generous with you guys.

A 60W box with an 85% efficient internal PSU becomes a 71W box. 11W lost and dissipated in the PSU. OMG, that sure makes all the difference in the world. Right?

And to reiterate: the WiiU as it was shown is half the volume of a (75W) PS3slim and is cooled by a single 40mm fan.

 

[Shanadeus]

.

 

[fernoca]

Doubt it.

Look at the graphic showcases the NGC and N64 produced.
The final product was quite a massive leap from the unfinished product, I don't see why it wouldn't be the same for that HD zelda demo.

I think guek was been sarcastic, hence the "according to some".

 

[snesfreak]

If the Wii U doesn't have an 80 Terraquad HD and output at 16k resolution I'm not buying it!

 

[Strife91]

If the Wii U doesn't have an 80 Terraquad HD and output at 16k resolution I'm not buying it!

And I want 4D graphics too.

 

[BurntPork]

So let's quantify that impact. PSUs these days have 85%+ efficiency. It could certainly be better in a closed box where the thing is designed exactly to target, unlike PCs, but hey, let me be generous with you guys.

A 60W box with an 85% efficient internal PSU becomes a 71W box. 11W lost and dissipated in the PSU. OMG, that sure makes all the difference in the world. Right?

And to reiterate: the WiiU as it was shown is half the volume of a (75W) PS3slim and is cooled by a single 40mm fan.

I thought that PS3 Slim was more than 75W... That's the original Slim you're looking at and not the new one that came out this year, right?

Also, the GPU will almost certainly be 40nm, if not even smaller, and you can't use graphics card TDPs since that includes more than the GPU. And the original dev kits had overheating issues and had to be underclocked.

EDIT: Checked myself. The first version of the PS3 Slim went as high as 107W.

 

[guek]

So let's quantify that impact. PSUs these days have 85%+ efficiency. It could certainly be better in a closed box where the thing is designed exactly to target, unlike PCs, but hey, let me be generous with you guys.

A 60W box with an 85% efficient internal PSU becomes a 71W box. 11W lost and dissipated in the PSU. OMG, that sure makes all the difference in the world. Right?

And to reiterate: the WiiU as it was shown is half the volume of a (75W) PS3slim and is cooled by a single 40mm fan.

wait, so is there no fan behind these vents

on top of this one?

 

[AceBandage]

That wasn't even a final unit, besides.
We have no idea what it'll look like at retail.

 

[BurntPork]

That wasn't even a final unit, besides.
We have no idea what it'll look like at retail.

This too. And even if it were, a 480 SP part (50% more than RV730) could easily fit in there at 40nm, possibly even a 640 SP part at a lower clockspeed if the cores are based on Evergreen or later.

 

[Kandinsky]

I can't wait for the 720/PS4/Wii U comparisons.

Fanboy tears everywhere in every scenario.

Not fair, that would be like comparing 360/PS3 to Wii!

 

[bgassassin]

So let's quantify that impact. PSUs these days have 85%+ efficiency. It could certainly be better in a closed box where the thing is designed exactly to target, unlike PCs, but hey, let me be generous with you guys.

A 60W box with an 85% efficient internal PSU becomes a 71W box. 11W lost and dissipated in the PSU. OMG, that sure makes all the difference in the world. Right?

And to reiterate: the WiiU as it was shown is half the volume of a (75W) PS3slim and is cooled by a single 40mm fan.

I was originally responding to the other one so I'll go with this. Size comparison is really irrelevant between the two. We don't know how small Slim would be without that big internal power supply, bulky disc drive, and hard drive, and at the same time we don't know what type of internal cooling Wii U has and how much a case that size could really handle. Wii has a TDP near tablets and I know that case could handle more than that. But I made the mistake of letting myself get into a case debate when I'd rather trust confirmation from devs over your assumptions.

Yikes. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I hope you didn't take it that way. It's a thread of speculation after all and I took it as just a guess on your part. I think the tech of SoP and SoC are very interesting though and I could see Nintendo doing something like that. I haven't read the patents you're referring to though. They're a bit of a tough read imo.

As far as the specs go. I know IGNs build was completely un-optimized and that none of those parts would be in Wii U. I agree that it would have been nice if IGN gave us clock speeds. That's still an area we haven't heard anything about correct? I imagine the Nintendo ninjas would really be pissed if that info got leaked.

Anyway, what I'm mainly interested in are the results of what the system can do. I'm just trying to look at all the info given and formulate an opinion. It still hasn't changed much as far as what I think the system will be capable of. We have seen the bird tech demo and the Zelda one in particular impressed me the most. I thought the lighting and particle effects in it were very nice. I'd really be happy if that was all running in 1080p which is what IGN concluded. Here is a snippit of info from a THQ employee. Take this with a grain of salt, but it's not much different from what everyone else is saying.

http://www.zeldainformer.com/2011/09/wii-u-developer-quote-of-the-day-thq-on-power-and-graphics.html

Sometimes context can be lost in posts. There was no offense taken. I was just saying I'm not leaning on that idea anymore. And I was the one who originally posted that article here so I've seen it.

I agree with JJ though. You can't say you agree with what we're saying about the IGN piece, and then still try to hang on to it as support. You can't have it both ways. Either you disagree with us, or you agree that it's a poor example that can't be used. Also your view has been changing over the posts you've made to continue to hold on to IGN's article. I understand wanting results, but you're not going to see anything tangible till next year.

As for clocks yes, Nintendo hasn't even told that to the devs from what we know so there's no concern of it being leaked. Considering the holes in info that lherre mentioned, I wouldn't be surprised if Moore is going to see how those holes are being filled.

We still don't know if Nintendo has even finalized anything. I'd be under the impression that the GPU will tape-out between now (if not already) and the end of the year. That said the CPU may not be taped out either so I would just heavily suggest not bothering with trying to find tangible results.

 

[CubeHands]

Originally Posted by Shanadeus:
I can't wait for the 720/PS4/Wii U comparisons.

Fanboy tears everywhere in every scenario.

"Not fair, that would be like comparing 360/PS3 to Wii!"

It is fair, I can't wait to see how much better Zelda/Mario/Prime/Etc. look on the 720/PS4.

Oh no, er wait...

I really don't think the power matters (its powerful enough based on the zelda tech demo); as stated elsewhere in the thread, this is our first NINTENDO HD Console, that is exciting enough, once people see their flagship titles in HD, all discussion about image quality et al will become moot.

You either love superb games, regardless of platform or you don't really love games: you love the brand.

 

[Hero of Legend]

I may as well post this; two writers from VG247 (which seems to be a trustworthy site from what I've seen around GAF), seem to be sure that The Darkness 2 is Wii U bound:

http://www.vg247.com/2011/10/08/the-darkness-ii-gameplay-videos-are-full-of-death/

http://www.vg247.com/2011/10/05/the-darkness-ii-demos-quad-wield-combat/

I sent an email to the latter writer (it might just be responded by the site as a whole) about this. Hopefully they're not confusing it with Darksiders 2 or got the info from Wikipedia or something. A GamePro editor made the mistake of the latter.

 

[AceBandage]

I can't see any reason that any upcoming multiplatform release doesn't get a Wii U version.

 

[Hero of Legend]

I can't see any reason that any upcoming multiplatform release doesn't get a Wii U version.

I'm not so optimistic.

 

[BurntPork]

I can't see any reason that any upcoming multiplatform release doesn't get a Wii U version.

Third-parties hate Nintendo, or they don't think it'll sell enough to justify the resources used for the port due to Wii U's tiny userbase and Nintendo fans who generally don't buy third party games? The game is online focused and Nintendo's online is so inferior that it results in an inferior experience compared to the other platforms so they think that no one would buy it for Wii U? They want to release a platformer around the same time as a Mario/Kirby/DK game? Wii U's textures are too compelling compared to other platforms?

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

I can't see any reason that any upcoming multiplatform release doesn't get a Wii U version.

Maybe for a while before Sony and Microsoft roll out their babies, which could either result in spinoffs again or downports.

 

[StreetsAhead]

I really don't think the power matters (its powerful enough based on the zelda tech demo); as stated elsewhere in the thread, this is our first NINTENDO HD Console, that is exciting enough, once people see their flagship titles in HD, all discussion about image quality et al will become moot.

For me, this is most important. The comparison, at least on a 1st party basis, is not so much PS360 vs. Wii U quality graphics, but Wii vs. Wii U.

 

[bgassassin]

Thinking back on the IGN build I had always been under the impression that the card they used had 512MB till today. Shows how much I paid attention to it. I wonder if this means that the dev kit had 2GB of memory instead of 1.5GB. Both the 4850 and 4830 have 1GB versions.

 

[BurntPork]

Thinking back on the IGN build I had always been under the impression that the card they used had 512MB till today. Shows how much I paid attention to it. I wonder if this means that the dev kit had 2GB of memory instead of 1.5GB. Both the 4850 and 4830 have 1GB versions.

I think it means that the kit had 1GB, but there wasn't any way to get a graphics card without memory.

 

[AzaK]

I can't see any reason that any upcoming multiplatform release doesn't get a Wii U version.

Agreed. Some of the big players might risk it from the outset and release on all 3 consoles early in the Wii U's life. Others might wait a bit to see how the sales of Wii U go before they spend cash on the port.

However, ports for Wii U might end up being a bit more expensive than current ports because it's not just a "compile for new system" type of deal. To take advantage of the Wii U requires adding more work (Design and implementation) to use the controller well. At minimum though, we should get 3rd parties doing simple HUD-on-controller implementations.

 

[bgassassin]

I think it means that the kit had 1GB, but there wasn't any way to get a graphics card without memory.

Wait. What? ROFL!

 

[StreetsAhead]

It's a new console, with new controls and architecture, but it's not quite "next" generation. Developers have to contend with differences between the Wii U and current generation consoles, then have to figure out what to do with the controls.

http://wiiublog.com/blog/2011/10/12...te-a-next-generation-system-says-pachter.html

Is it just me or does he sound like he's saying 'Devs are so stupid they won't know what to do with this non-2006 era technology because PS360.'

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Maybe for a while before Sony and Microsoft roll out their babies, which could either result in spinoffs again or downports.

As long as a separate team isn't needed, publishers will by and large prefer to make Wii U versions.

 

[Plinko]

http://wiiublog.com/blog/2011/10/12...te-a-next-generation-system-says-pachter.html

Is it just me or does he sound like he's saying 'Devs are so stupid they won't know what to do with this non-2006 era technology because PS360.'

For the Wii U to be "hugely successful", he believe the console will need "a competitive price, compelling first party launch titles, and compelling third party launch titles."

That's why they pay him the big bucks, right there. Hard-hitting analysis.

That first quote also makes him sound like he has no earthly idea about anything involved with this system.

 

[Hobbestetrician]

I can't see any reason that any upcoming multiplatform release doesn't get a Wii U version.

Didn't Ken Levine say there were no plans for a Wii U version of Bioshock Infinite?

 

[fernoca]

Compelling textures Pachter, you forgot about'em!!

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Didn't Ken Levine say there were no plans for a Wii U version of Bioshock Infinite?

In fairness that game started in, what, 2009? Late 2008?

 

[BurntPork]

Wii U probably can't run BS:I.

Spoiler

Of course I'm kidding you silly, silly person.

 

[guek]

lookin over the dolphin thread, I realize what I wont most out of future HD graphics is locked 60fps...I think most devs will always find a way though to push the system too far and settle for 30fps

 

[guek]

Didn't Ken Levine say there were no plans for a Wii U version of Bioshock Infinite?

I think it'll come out on wii u eventually. Provided it does really well critically and commercially, I wouldn't be too surprised if they put it out on wii u alongside a a game of the year edition

 

[EDarkness]

I may as well post this; two writers from VG247 (which seems to be a trustworthy site from what I've seen around GAF), seem to be sure that The Darkness 2 is Wii U bound:

http://www.vg247.com/2011/10/08/the-darkness-ii-gameplay-videos-are-full-of-death/

http://www.vg247.com/2011/10/05/the-darkness-ii-demos-quad-wield-combat/

I sent an email to the latter writer (it might just be responded by the site as a whole) about this. Hopefully they're not confusing it with Darksiders 2 or got the info from Wikipedia or something. A GamePro editor made the mistake of the latter.

Let me formally come out and say I would pick up the Wii U version if it supported IR. Any FPS or 3rd person shooter that doesn't won't get my money. The idea of playing The Darkness with the extra screen and IR would be nice.

Anyway, I imagine just about all multi-platform games will get a Wii U version if it's on par with the other systems. It wouldn't make any sense not to.

 

[Hobbestetrician]

I think it'll come out on wii u eventually. Provided it does really well critically and commercially, I wouldn't be too surprised if they put it out on wii u alongside a a game of the year edition

And there is the key word. A GOTY edition (which it could have, depending on if there is any significant DLC) would be upwards of a year after release, meaning 2013 when I can't imagine it would be too much work to have a version done day-and-date as the PS360 version. Waiting to see if it is a viable platform is a self-fulfilling prophecy because if developers put out significant software early it helps the platform become more viable. Instead they wait until the only significant releases are first party and then complain when that is all people buy.

 

[AzaK]

Let me formally come out and say I would pick up the Wii U version if it supported IR. Any FPS or 3rd person shooter that doesn't won't get my money. The idea of playing The Darkness with the extra screen and IR would be nice.

Anyway, I imagine just about all multi-platform games will get a Wii U version if it's on par with the other systems. It wouldn't make any sense not to.

The whole IR pointer vs standard controls is going to be interesting. Are devs going to implement a plethora of controls and allow you to chose or locks you into one or other other. I don't feel that pointer controls would work well in most games in combination with the pad, as it'd have to sit on your lap and you'd have to glance down considerably to look at it.

I do love pointer controls for FPS titles on the Wii. Way, way better than sticks, but if I had to chose sticks and U pad vs pointer, I'd go for the former cause I think it'd offer way more options.

 

[Übermatik]

I'm expecting the final console design too look significantly different to the first build we saw at E3.

Spoiler

I always thought it looked too fat and ugly...

 

[ShockingAlberto]

PS3 got a late Bioshock port.

Wouldn't surprise me if the Bioshock 2 team was tasked with porting Infinite to Wii U at some point.

 

[DrM]

That's why they pay him the big bucks, right there. Hard-hitting analysis.

There is no Bing voice search function, so console will fail

 

[StreetsAhead]

There is no Bing voice search function, so console will fail

Oh god...The e3 conference is coming back to me now 'Bing lego' 'Bing movies' 'Bing self destruct'

 

[EatChildren]

PS3 got a late Bioshock port.

Wouldn't surprise me if the Bioshock 2 team was tasked with porting Infinite to Wii U at some point.

The Wii U is going to get a ton of late ports. I expect developers to flood the launch with games a good few months old, then whine when they don't sell.

 

[jump_button]

The Wii U is going to get a ton of late ports. I expect developers to flood the launch with games a good few months old, then whine when they don't sell.

Im sure Capcom will do what they always do if GameX don't sell you not getting the new one BS

its a test to see how well it will sell <_<

 

[Winnie the Pimp]

ok, with all this talk here's my one question:

If Nintendo truly was serious about trying to win back the hardcore audience, and they were indeed in a comfortable financial position after the DS and the Wii, WHY did they not go all out on the Wii U, making it an absolute BEAST to dominate the market in terms of sheer power and make 3rd parties flock to them like sheep?

Sometimes it IS viable to lose money on each unit when the long term gain is worth it (taking the market back)

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

ok, with all this talk here's my one question:

If Nintendo truly was serious about trying to win back the hardcore audience, and they were indeed in a comfortable financial position after the DS and the Wii, WHY did they not go all out on the Wii U, making it an absolute BEAST to dominate the market in terms of sheer power and make 3rd parties flock to them like sheep?

Sometimes it IS viable to lose money on each unit when the long term gain is worth it (taking the market back)

There's really nothing to say that it isn't, nor is there anything to suggest that the PS4 or XB3 will be noticably stronger.

 

[fabricated backlash]

http://wiiublog.com/blog/2011/10/12...te-a-next-generation-system-says-pachter.html

Is it just me or does he sound like he's saying 'Devs are so stupid they won't know what to do with this non-2006 era technology because PS360.'

Well the evidence is ample that creativity in terms of User interface isn't exactly this industries forte.

Unless some studios invest in R&D specifically aimed at controller inputs, you'll continue to see half assed adaptations like on Wii, Move and Kinect.

With the standard controller the need to innovate on the UI front were useless anyway, so we're now left with an industry that doesn't value evolution on that front, but focuses on graphics and cpu performance instead.

Hell the Wii U Tablet is proof of that. IR gaming is basically dead now. I expect not a single developer will give us the option to use IR aiming on Wii U, let alone for whatever Sony uses to follow up Move on the next system. And I allready hate them for that.

There's really nothing to say that it isn't, nor is there anything to suggest that the PS4 or XB3 will be noticably stronger.

But Avatar like Graphics, 4D and Blast Processing... that talk has to count for something right?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The Wii U is going to get a ton of late ports. I expect developers to flood the launch with games a good few months old, then whine when they don't sell.

I do wonder how far back they'll reach.

I half-expect Dead Space 1 and Mass Effect 2 $60 releases.

 

[Lupin the Third]

ok, with all this talk here's my one question:

If Nintendo truly was serious about trying to win back the hardcore audience, and they were indeed in a comfortable financial position after the DS and the Wii, WHY did they not go all out on the Wii U, making it an absolute BEAST to dominate the market in terms of sheer power and make 3rd parties flock to them like sheep?

Sometimes it IS viable to lose money on each unit when the long term gain is worth it (taking the market back)

599 US Dollars.

And yes, Sony was taking a loss there, too.