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[Nuclear Muffin]

RS2 was pretty kewl...

seriously hoping for a red steel 3.

I think if nintendo is really serious about supporting both controller methods, they'll have launch games that don't use the Upad...

or the pack in will have games for both controllers

Well, so far every single playable game/demo shown has used the Wii U pad and the Wiimote in unison (except for Shield Pose, but that'll probably get bundled along with Chase Mii as part of Wii U Play) Hell even the videos of Wii U Sports and Wii U Fit have used either the Wiimote or Balance Board along with the Wii U pad.

 

[orioto]

Graphics are just tools art style is what can make a good looks good or bad, Big N always been good at knowing they own style unlike Sonic teams going with streets and roads

I really think Nintendo has totally lost its visual appeal for mario at least. Mario's universe should be a lot more surreal and dreamy. They tried to make Mario a more modern character by making him more tall and charismatic, and humanizing its context, exactly like Sega did with Sonic.

 

[MDX]

Well, so far every single playable game/demo shown has used the Wii U pad and the Wiimote in unison (except for Shield Pose, but that'll probably get bundled along with Chase Mii as part of Wii U Play) Hell even the videos of Wii U Sports and Wii U Fit have used either the Wiimote or Balance Board along with the Wii U pad.

Thats what I've been saying, Nintendo is not dropping controller options, its expanding them.
Its using controllers to attract different market groups. And the WiiUpad is supposed to attract traditional gamers and third party developers who cater to them.

It will really be up to third party developers to use their imagination to come up with interesting games supporting either/or or both controllers though.

Nintendo, once again with their demo games, is showing them options. If third party developers do not take these ideas and run with them, they are officially bankrupt in the creative department.

 

[Triton55]

I really think Nintendo has totally lost its visual appeal for mario at least. Mario's universe should be a lot more surreal and dreamy. They tried to make Mario a more modern character by making him [B]more tall and charismatic[/B], and humanizing its context, exactly like Sega did with Sonic.[/QUOTE]
What?

 

[EatChildren]

I really think Nintendo has totally lost its visual appeal for mario at least. Mario's universe should be a lot more surreal and dreamy. They tried to make Mario a more modern character by making him more tall and charismatic, and humanizing its context, exactly like Sega did with Sonic.

This is so far and away from what Nintendo has actually done with Mario that its laughable.

 

[Gravijah]

This is so far and away from what Nintendo has actually done with Mario that its laughable.

remember when mario got kissed by a much taller human lady

 

[The_Endgamer]

remember when mario got kissed by a much taller human lady

You mean Peach? lol

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Thats what I've been saying, Nintendo is not dropping controller options, its expanding them.
Its using controllers to attract different market groups. And the WiiUpad is supposed to attract traditional gamers and third party developers who cater to them.

It will really be up to third party developers to use their imagination to come up with interesting games supporting either/or or both controllers though.

Nintendo, once again with their demo games, is showing them options. If third party developers do not take these ideas and run with them, they are officially bankrupt in the creative department.

I think we already know what the answer to that question is (the fact that they chose to demo Ghost Recon and Killer Freaks with a Classic Controller Pro speaks volumes)

 

[FreeMufasa]

I really think Nintendo has totally lost its visual appeal for mario at least. Mario's universe should be a lot more surreal and dreamy. They tried to make Mario a more modern character by making him more tall and charismatic, and humanizing its context, exactly like Sega did with Sonic.

I think it's because of 2 reasons. First is we've pretty much had the same Mario (graphically) for 3 generations now. GC then Wii and now 3DS, all in the same ball park. So it's been 10 years of the same-ish type of look . But we all know this will change when the WiiU drops.

Secondly, I don't think Nintendo are making Mario games any less dreamy/surreal, it's just that we're used to it all now. Back then i'm guessing the reactions were like "holy shit! this mushroom made me big" "Did you see that? The dragon spit fire!!!" That all happens now but I hope for Mario Wiiu, Nintendo take him out of the mushroom kingdom and put him somewhere like in Sunshine.

 

[Deguello]

This is so far and away from what Nintendo has actually done with Mario that its laughable.

Truly. Like is there a timeline for when Mario got this edgy redesign? Because really the last time Mario got any sort of broad character redesign was from Super Mario World to Super Mario 64. (This was when his hat's bill went from brown to red.)

 

[Azure J]

This is so far and away from what Nintendo has actually done with Mario that its laughable.

In an era after the Galaxy series no less...

 

[WillyFive]

I think Nintendo needs to be more innovative with the Mario art style. NSMB, SMG, Mario Sports Mix, Mario Tennis, and Mario Kart all use the same exact Mario design and art style.

Even the Paper Mario series have stuck with the ugly TTYD design, despite having such a good looking clean one for Paper Mario 64.

Not saying to pull a Sonic and make him taller and edgy, but at least use different shading and such.

 

[Ithil]

I really think Nintendo has totally lost its visual appeal for mario at least. Mario's universe should be a lot more surreal and dreamy. They tried to make Mario a more modern character by making him more tall and charismatic, and humanizing its context, exactly like Sega did with Sonic.

Super Mario Galaxy is not surreal and dreamy?

 

[WillyFive]

Super Mario Galaxy is not surreal and dreamy?

It's epic, but not any more surreal than Sunshine's special stages.

 

[zoukka]

Super Mario Galaxy is not surreal and dreamy?

Dreamy maybe, not surreal in any way.

 

[Ithil]

Dreamy maybe, not surreal in any way.

I don't know, I was pretty freaking weirded out by the end.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

I don't agree with that, and it's sad if Nintendo does. Just look at Kirby game. They have shown high production value and a big visual ambition, while staying classic platforming with abstraction and clarity.

Now, the duality between natural graphics against clear gameplay is and will always be a problem for sure, but not an unsolvable one. And i think that having something "like a toy" with straight and artificial platforms, mixed with realistic details and scenery is actually a part of the magic of some old school impressive games.

You can keep this clarity and symbolism and still make it look like it's straight fro a Pixar movie, i'm pretty sure of it.

Well I think this is where there's two schools of thought on game production/design. You might say that a Mario with Pixar-esque quality visuals is a step in the right direction and money and time well spent. I might say that $20-40 mil spent on art/engine/programming/etc is better spent on elaborating new gameplay concepts and perfecting the camera in a 3D space (allowing for pixel perfect jumps now only possible in 2D) and instead going for a stylistic approach at 1080p 60fps...

I'm not saying Nintendo shouldn't ever reach for amazing visuals standards, they already do and have those aspirations. In fact some of the best lookers are Nintendo games. I'm just saying the jump to HD beyond 360/PS3 should come at no cost to Nintendo's historic focus on gameplay and design centric philosophies. If both can be done without sacrifices on the gameplay side (something we see in almost every HD game at some level) including technical performance then fine, bring on Pixar graphics. But if not I'd rather see Nintendo be conservative on visuals and deliver great new gameplay than tow the HD line and have less progress in other areas as opposed to visually.

 

[mclem]

Here's Concept art for Twilight Princess versus The Wii U demo. Again, they essentially match. (except for Link having a reversed part in his hair)

His hair isn't reversed: *HE* is reversed. It's probably an indication of the whole left-handed/right-handed thing.

 

[Übermatik]

Dreamy maybe, not surreal in any way.

I know people have different definitions of the word 'surreal', but there were a lot of times in Galaxy 1 & 2 where I could use this word to describe the level design.

 

[BowieZ]

Looking forward to Super Mario 3D World on Wii U.

 

[Always-honest]

I really think Nintendo has totally lost its visual appeal for mario at least. Mario's universe should be a lot more surreal and dreamy. They tried to make Mario a more modern character by making him more tall and charismatic, and humanizing its context, exactly like Sega did with Sonic.

Dis you play galaxy?
I agree about sunshine though.

And no, he should not be taller

 

[orioto]

Dis you play galaxy?
I agree about sunshine though.

And no, he should not be taller

I didn't say he should be lol.

I said they made him less a dumb cute small character and more a hero with human proportion.

Obviously you will tell me it's due to the technical advance, but i say (Iwata was talking about that recently) this is the problem. 8 and 16 bit mario has an abstract and burlesque charm when the modern mario is more... cool for little boys. But that's how he lose it's universal appeal. That's the same problem for Sonic and Mario. They are iconic characters from an era where things were naive, simplistic and light hearted, and they had to evolve in an industry driven by the need for more details, more realism, more connection to the reality in general. That's my big thing : Videogame was about "making the unreal alive" and became "reproducing the reality".

Basically, Mario was an anti-hero and became a hero.

Anyway i don't want to derail the thread sorry.

 

[FreeMufasa]

I think Nintendo needs to be more innovative with the Mario art style. NSMB, SMG, Mario Sports Mix, Mario Tennis, and Mario Kart all use the same exact Mario design and art style.

Even the Paper Mario series have stuck with the ugly TTYD design, despite having such a good looking clean one for Paper Mario 64.

Not saying to pull a Sonic and make him taller and edgy, but at least use different shading and such.

This I agree with. The Mario strikers series for example. It has amazing art and something close to it would have been great.

But in the end all we got was a generic Mario artstyle.

 

[guek]

dat peach...

I mean, yeah, strikers had good art

 

[Javier]

That's not Peach, though. That's Rosalina, and it's fanart, since Rosalina isn't in Strikers.

 

[walking fiend]

Dreamy maybe, not surreal in any way.

It didn't have flying Goomba, so I have to agree... (though I am almost sure it had been mostly due to gameplay issues that type of flying enemies would cause)

But regardless, I can't really think of 'any' surreal design in the game, bar flying bombs. I wish there were some.

Though, some designed were mind blowingly dreamy. I was speechless the first time I played that level with rabbits which you grab on flowers and fly from one platform to the next, and also that giant worm, simply impressive

 

[BurntPork]

That reminds me...

Strikers needs to be a launch tittle. I don't care how or why JUST DO IT

 

[Azure J]

I've always loved the Strikers art. It's like a cross between Jet Set Radio in places and the hand drawn Mario art you used to get pre Mario 64, quite an awesome mix. I still kinda wish if Smash Bros. would go in that direction for both in game and promotional art. :lol

I also now kinda understand what you mean in regards to Nintendo playing with it's iconic character's art styles Willy. It's been a while since we've seen them do something on a visual level to the characters and it'd probably bring a new look at things with the right execution.

Orioto, while I kinda see and agree with what you're saying as well, I dunno if I'd go so far as to say that the current Mario is bland. I think it's more that depending on how the visual design is played up, his charm is either amplified or kept at a median which thanks to continued exposure since his look/CG debuted in the N64 days seems kinda "stale".

When I look at Galaxy (sorry for continuing to harp on this, it's just my go to for imo the best interpretation of the character and universe thus far) I still see the whimsy hero I did stemming back from as early as Super Mario Bros. 3. There are times when the execution of the character's design and the universe itself emphasize the design and make it take on that timeless nature and throughout both Galaxy 1 and 2, this held true for me.

At the same time though, when you see this same design used in "sterile" or maybe I should say more conservative games from Nintendo (in terms of visual design) like the New Super Mario Bros. series, the Sports spinoffs, and the Kart/Party games, it does seem sort bland and lacking something, even though it's clean and colorful enough that you don't think much about it.

 

[orioto]

I've always loved the Strikers art. It's like a cross between Jet Set Radio in places and the hand drawn Mario art you used to get pre Mario 64, quite an awesome mix. I still kinda wish if Smash Bros. would go in that direction for both in game and promotional art. :lol

I also now kinda understand what you mean in regards to Nintendo playing with it's iconic character's art styles Willy. It's been a while since we've seen them do something on a visual level to the characters and it'd probably bring a new look at things with the right execution.

Orioto, while I kinda see and agree with what you're saying as well, I dunno if I'd go so far as to say that the current Mario is bland. I think it's more that depending on how the visual design is played up, his charm is either amplified or kept at a median which thanks to continued exposure since his look/CG debuted in the N64 days seems kinda "stale".

When I look at Galaxy (sorry for continuing to harp on this, it's just my go to for imo the best interpretation of the character and universe thus far) I still see the whimsy hero I did stemming back from as early as Super Mario Bros. 3. There are times when the execution of the character's design and the universe itself emphasize the design and make it take on that timeless nature and throughout both Galaxy 1 and 2, this held true for me.

At the same time though, when you see this same design used in "sterile" or maybe I should say more conservative games from Nintendo (in terms of visual design) like the New Super Mario Bros. series, the Sports spinoffs, and the Kart/Party games, it does seem sort bland and lacking something, even though it's clean and colorful enough that you don't think much about it.

I didn't refer to Galaxy because it's anoter story for me, bur of course it's a better direction than Sunshine. Galaxy has the poesy and the surrealism right, probably (besides having perfect game and level design), but i would say it's almost.. too complicated lol! The princess and its stories and all that, this is almost an rpg setting somewhere. For me the ideal mario should be surreal and naive, but also simple, dumb in a way. it doesn't need a real story or anything for me. It's more about a light hearted spirit and up beat rhythm. But Galaxy had some part of that right, sure.

 

[bgassassin]

Another cancelled Wiiware game, Machinarium, possibly heading to Wii U.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-01-playstation-3-machinarium-the-ultimate-version

Meanwhile, Dvorský said Amanita is exploring a number of platforms for the upcoming Samorost 3, including the Wii U.

"Of course we want to bring it to as many platforms as possible," he said. "Definitely PC, Mac and tablets - iPad and Android tablets. And hopefully also some bigger consoles. We are in contact with Sony. They are interested, so we want to bring it to PlayStation. We're also interested in Xbox. Nintendo Wii U looks promising because it will be a powerful machine and that's what we want.

...

One platform Amanita's games will not appear on, however, is the Wii. "We don't like Wii because the resolution is so low and there is a size limit on WiiWare of 40MB, which is so low for nowadays," Dvorský explained. "It's crazy."

 

[guek]

That's not Peach, though. That's Rosalina, and it's fanart, since Rosalina isn't in Strikers.

pretty sure that's peach and official artwork (maybe recolored)

 

[Black-Wind]

pretty sure that's peach and official artwork (maybe recolored)

Yup, it's at least BASED on official art but likely recolored and clearly changed a bit by someone.

http://www.pressthebuttons.com/2009/07/super-mario-strikers-artwork-on-parade.html

I fucking LOVE Striker's stages of concept art!

"We've established the art style, so let's look at some character pieces. You'll have trouble finding an angrier selection of Mario artwork than this. That ball is about to meet some tightly controlled fury."

Mario just looks so damn angry ... and a bit Mexican.

What are you guys going on about, I see no concept art in your posts. That's some nice promotional art, though.

For arguments sake, this is what actual concept art looks like.

uhh, that looks more like a sheet made for modeling (a model sheet).
MY understanding is that "concept art" is any art made in the conceptual stage of building the art style. As in, like the above, it's there to SHOW the direction of the art style and presentation of the game early on as things are developing. I don't think that either this or stubby Link were made simply to promote the game so i call them Concept Art.

 

[Vinci]

Seriously. Wii has more local offline multi-player games than PS3 & 360 combined. It's the system of choice for party & family games. It's this type of gaming that made it popular, not online. It's also why Sony and Microsoft released Move and Kinnect.

What evidence do you have that Nintendo is abandoning this sort of thing though? The fact that they finally have an online-capable system doesn't necessarily mean that they're neglecting experiences they know to be profitable. Hell, Chase Mii and Battle Mii make it abundantly clear that they're still focusing on this aspect of gaming.

In fact, I'd say they are likely taking a very logical step forward based on what they've shown thus far - from the Wii to the Wii U. They could always blow it, though, but so far? The transition and focus seems fairly rational.

The online will mostly be utilized by 3rd parties who adore not making local multi options since it necessitates anyone wishing to play multiplayer must purchase his or her own copy of the game.

 

[Azure J]

Strikers stuff

Please God, tell me that you have a Strikers Charged version of this somewhere.

 

[Bear]

His hair isn't reversed: *HE* is reversed. It's probably an indication of the whole left-handed/right-handed thing.

Exactly, everything about him is flipped. If you flip the concept art horizontally, they look pretty much identical besides having more detail in real time. The physical attributes of the model, and even his equipment, match the concept art perfectly.

 

[Deguello]

I'm so glad this wasn't anywhere near the final design. This just screams Poochy-esque EXTREME redesign with a little hiphop gangsta flava. Which is to say it would have been horrible and embarrassing, and somebody would probably write an article about it being racist.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

[Übermatik]

Hm, I'd welcome a new Strikers for Wii U... it's one of those games that comes along every now and then and is a bit under appreciated, but thoroughly enjoyable.
BWii was another - but I'm doubtful that franchise will be revived anytime soon.
Ooh, and Viewtiful Joe WiiU anyone? Aw yeaaah.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Hm, I'd welcome a new Strikers for Wii U... it's one of those games that comes along every now and then and is a bit under appreciated, but thoroughly enjoyable.

Based on the continuing worldwide popularities of Mario and football, I think you've got a good chance on this one at least.

 

[polyh3dron]

I think that Nintendo could really use the horse power behind the WU and that it's not just something to please fans and 3rd parties. Seeing what they can do with this amount of power in areas other then just pure graphics is something I'm sure we will all look forward to seeing. Hell, just the fact that they can cram in a ton more animations and animation transitions makes a huge difference to me. At the very least it would allow for the example above where they can now truly make the game look like the concept art.

I'm sure they have some ideas for Mario that just can't be done on the Wii ... just like I'm sure SMG can't be done on the 64.

nevar forget

 

[GANGSTERKILLER]

I hope that Nintendo have Mario at launch in 1080p. Then i will buy a Wii U day one.

 

[Übermatik]

Based on the continuing worldwide popularities of Mario and football, I think you've got a good chance on this one at least.

Hopefully. The last one was a bit of a flop. With a bit more drive behind it, it could do well.

I hope that Nintendo have Mario at launch in 1080p. Then i will buy a Wii U day one.

I'd imagine they have some kind of Mario game ready for launch, if not then soon after.

 

[Effect]

I really hope Nintendo changes it's mind about allowing for up-resing of their Wii games, at least some of them. Did they issue a definite no in regard to that? Or could that be something that changes? It would be one more reason to get people to buy a Wii U and to keep them playing Wii games or buying them if they are still on the market at the time.

Is simply to difficult of a thing to do in general?

 

[Black-Wind]

nevar forget

I'm sure no one forgot how shitty the GC demo looked compared to TP.

 

[StevieP]

I really hope Nintendo changes it's mind about allowing for up-resing of their Wii games, at least some of them. Did they issue a definite no in regard to that? Or could that be something that changes? It would be one more reason to get people to buy a Wii U and to keep them playing Wii games or buying them if they are still on the market at the time.

Is simply to difficult of a thing to do in general?

It's presumably emulated with dedicated hardware, not software emulation. 100% BC, in otherwords. Therefore, no.

But then I assume you're talking about what Dolphin is doing, and re-rendering games IN 1080p, not simply "upscaling", which would be displaying a 480p image at 1080p resolution. There is literally a 0% chance of that if you want perfect emulation of Wii games.

All this talk about changing Mario's direction reminds me of this thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=430478
Seriously, look through all 36 pages at some of the photos

 

[PdotMichael]

I'm sure no one forgot how shitty the GC demo looked compared to TP.

bizarro world?

it was in any technical point better.

 

[Sadist]

Guess Ken Levine still doesn't know a lot about the Wii U... and still not doing anything for it.

http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/32216/-wii-u-is-very-cool-ken-levine/

 

[ReyVGM]

That really pisses me off.

On the N64 the excuse was that the carts were too small.
On the Gamecube the excuse was the the discs were not big enough.
On the Wii the excuse was that it wasn't powerful enough.

So Nintendo gives them the WiiU, which is as powerful or more powerful and now devs say "oh I don't know if I want to put my games there".

WTF devs? Assholes...

 

[Effect]

It's presumably emulated with dedicated hardware, not software emulation. 100% BC, in otherwords. Therefore, no.

But then I assume you're talking about what Dolphin is doing, and re-rendering games IN 1080p, not simply "upscaling", which would be displaying a 480p image at 1080p resolution. There is literally a 0% chance of that if you want perfect emulation of Wii games.

All this talk about changing Mario's direction reminds me of this thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=430478
Seriously, look through all 36 pages at some of the photos

SThanks. Not necessarily what Dolphin was doing but would take any type of change to Wii games even if it was small.

 

[blu]

That really pisses me off.

On the N64 the excuse was that the carts were too small.
On the Gamecube the excuse was the the discs were not big enough.
On the Wii the excuse was that it wasn't powerful enough.

So Nintendo gives them the WiiU, which is as powerful or more powerful and now devs say "oh I don't know if I want to put my games there".

WTF devs? Assholes...

On nintendo's hw 3rd parties have to compete with the best game publisher on the planet. What do you expect?

 

[ReyVGM]

On nintendo's hw 3rd parties have to compete with the best game publisher on the planet. What do you expect?

Bioshock doesn't compete with anything Nintendo releases. It's not like they are going to spend millions of dollars creating an exclusive game from the ground up for the WiiU. It's just a port of the game, more money for them and makes Nintendo fans happy.