Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012
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Shin Johnpv
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antonz said:
I fully agree with this. Hell I'd be happy with 1 friend list that works across all games, easily invite people to games, and it being free.
Nope. (How does one sound left handed?). I figured you were aiming at White Aussies who consider themselves to be "Colonial Englishmen", but they sort of died out last century anyway.TwinIonEngines said:
Well at least we speak English here. Have no idea what the fuck you speak.
By the way this derailment is just getting silly.
Annoying Old Party Man
Member
I kind of agree with Luckyman's predictions, and I consider myself a Nintendo fan.
There's no way the Wii U can become the PS2 of the upcoming generation.
PS2 was comparable technically with the other systems. You will never see the kind of downscale relationship of PS2 RE4 to GC RE4 with relative titles between WII U and next Xbox and Playstation systems.
Wii U won't be at any chance any comparable, but i don't think it will be a case of the Wii again.
The question remains: how much time will it get 3rd parties to exploit the new technology to develop games that won't be easily ported to Wii U. It took over a year with the original Xbox 360, so how much time will it get eg EA to massively scale up their FIFA engine so that the WII U version will look and play so inferior to the other versions, that the system itself will start losing mindshare and buzz?
There's no way the Wii U can become the PS2 of the upcoming generation.
PS2 was comparable technically with the other systems. You will never see the kind of downscale relationship of PS2 RE4 to GC RE4 with relative titles between WII U and next Xbox and Playstation systems.
Wii U won't be at any chance any comparable, but i don't think it will be a case of the Wii again.
The question remains: how much time will it get 3rd parties to exploit the new technology to develop games that won't be easily ported to Wii U. It took over a year with the original Xbox 360, so how much time will it get eg EA to massively scale up their FIFA engine so that the WII U version will look and play so inferior to the other versions, that the system itself will start losing mindshare and buzz?
DaSorcerer7
Member
Annoying Old Party Man said:
Predictions, assumptions are ok on their own, but when they get passed off as fact is where it gets really annoying. We know very little about the Wii U at this point, and absolutely NOTHING about the next xbox or PS4. Where are these fantasy power match ups coming from??
Annoying Old Party Man
Member
Gravijah said:
Well yeah, everything in this thread is a speculation, right? Judging by previous generations and by what we know about Sony and Microsoft's tendencies (and current WII U specs), I would assume that, if WII U launches in the middle of 2012 and the next Xbox/Playstation launch (best-case scenario) in the end of 2013, Wii U will have a couple of years of steady port release schedules, at least.
This means 2012,2013 and 2014 will be good for Wii U at the very least (kind of the same situation with Wii but even better due to the capabilities of the system to support multiplatform titles), after that, it's anyone's guess.
Annoying Old Party Man
Member
DaSorcerer7 said:
Dude, I know things.
...
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I like you.TwinIonEngines said:
*blushes*
Ask your crystal ball.Annoying Old Party Man said:
Seriously, we don't know how powerful any of these consoles will be. To say that there's "no way" it'll happen and that the difference will be enough that it significantly affects gameplay is ridiculous and 100% wrong, because it is possible. At least explain why you think it's impossible.
DaSorcerer7
Member
BurntPork said:
The only thing Luckyman's Crystal Ball predicts is doom and gloom scenarios for anything Nintendo related.
Smiles and Cries
Member
Technically speaking how is it possible that a 1080P HD System is so technically inferior to other 1080P systems that they are shut out of future ports?
Is it the amount of RAM?
Or chip's clock speed?
I know it can happen I just want to know how well it be explained when a developer comes out and says "This PS4 game was not possible on WiiU..."
You'd think if both are HD systems they should be able to downgrade a game from PS4 to WiiU
the fact that fans are already thinking of things like this is pretty funny, it only proves how little faith we have all learned to have on Nintendo's Hardware muscle
Is it the amount of RAM?
Or chip's clock speed?
I know it can happen I just want to know how well it be explained when a developer comes out and says "This PS4 game was not possible on WiiU..."
You'd think if both are HD systems they should be able to downgrade a game from PS4 to WiiU
the fact that fans are already thinking of things like this is pretty funny, it only proves how little faith we have all learned to have on Nintendo's Hardware muscle
Annoying Old Party Man said:Dude, I know things.
...
Oh yeah? Is Nintendo's chip Power-7 based as has been widely reported, or is it using a shitty Power 476FP instead?
Is the next Xbox using Llano or Trinity, based on the rumours? Because using Trinity is the only way it would be more powerful than the rumoured 600ish SP part in the Wii U. Llano's got a 400SP Evergreen at its top end.
Is the PS4 using Cell again, or are they moving to a decent, easy-to-use architecture this time? Please spill the beans.
Tell us what you know.
Edit: and it seems IBM is not going forward with the Cell design. So that idea is dead in the water.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Smiles and Cries said:
'1080p' means absolutely nothing except for what the output resolution is. It makes no statement about the actual hardware inside the box and what it is capable of rendering.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Annoying Old Party Man said:
This is a great question for core gamers. I think we'll see a similar situation to last gen but I think Nintendo will be able to hang close for maybe an extra year or two.
That said, for the general gaming audience, it's not going to matter as much this gen compared to last. The difference between SD and HD was HUGE. We won't see another jump like that for a decade or more. I'm sure PS4/NextBox will be pushing some major polygons--way more than Wii U. But that just doesn't seem to make a difference to most who buy the systems.
Annoying Old Party Man
Member
BurntPork said:
I think it's impossible IMO of course. Objectively, nothing is impossible.
Yes, I think that there will be a generational gap between Wii U and the next two systems, and that it will be a significant one so that from one point and on, some titles will not be able to be reproduced with their graphics and gameplay intact. And some titles will be severely down scaled.
All the ramblings I've heard point to this direction. Of course, I can never be sure, that's my assumption. How much the difference will be - it's anyone's guess. And seriously, there is no bias on my posts, check my post history, I call myself an avid Nintendo fan, though I have to scale down my excitement for Nintendo products since I'm in the "journalist" industry (lol).
p.s. I think people seriously underestimate Playstation2's technical capabilities. Yes, both the Gamecube and Xbox beat it comfortably, but it was a very powerful system at it's time and was able to handle most multiplatform titles without any issues. Plus, some of it's titles (the Kojima/PD games for example) managed to be among the most impressive in the generation, I don't think there will be any similar comparison to the relationship between the Wii U and the Xboxnext whatever.
Annoying Old Party Man
Member
Plinko said:
This is my opinion as well (the first part). On the second part, I think Nintendo will have to compete with Sony and Microsoft directly this time. The market is muddled and with Kinect and Move and the iPads and iPhones and whatnot of this industry, it's not a matter of casuals Vs hardcores but a matter of an attractive entertainment product. Online, digital content, game library, impressive visuals, all these will take a bigger role for Nintendo this time. We will just have to wait and see how successful and alluring will the new controller prove to be, we don't know yet and this E3 was not indicative (it was popular among the press but it didnt create that much of a splash on gamers, I think, plus we haven't seen the applications yet).
Annoying Old Party Man said:
That was the first clue.
That was the second clue.
Again, an AMD engineer (confirmed by detective GAF) posted early this year that his company was accelerating the development of a Fusion chip that was slated for an upcoming (launching 2012) console. We know that console isn't the Wii U, since it's got an IBM CPU and an AMD GPU.
That leaves either Sony or MS. So either Sony or MS will be using Fusion. I would put my money on MS, personally. That said, the only upcoming (2012) Fusion chip that has any merit in the console space is Trinity, which is a quad-core Bulldozer and a 4-500SPU Northern Islands chip (read: on-par with a 480SP AMD Radeon 6570).
Yes, that would be more powerful than the Wii U when taken as a whole. But in which universe does it leave it in the dust? In which universe would titles not be able to get reproduced on the Wii U's rumoured 600SP GPU?
DaSorcerer7
Member
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-29-why-core-gamers-will-accept-wii-u
Core gamers will accept the Wii U because it has high definition visuals and can be played in a conventional way, Nintendo has said.
That was boss Satoru Iwata's response when asked by a shareholder today whether the hardcore will accept Nintendo's next home console.
"Wii was not accepted by core gamers because they did not want to abandon their preferred control approach," he said, as reported by Andriasang.
"Additionally, Wii did not use HD because HD cost performance at the time was low. Wii U makes it easier to use conventional controls. Also, the Wii U controller is not as big or heavy as it looks."
Some criticised the Wii U's debut after Nintendo chose to showcase tech demos running on the hardware rather than games that will eventually launch.
This led to concern that the Wii U may suffer from a poor launch line-up of games - as the Nintendo 3DS did earlier this year - but Iwata told investors this will not be the case.
The CEO then suggested the eye-catching Zelda HD tech demo showcased at E3 was only possible on the Wii U.
"Regarding Zelda HD, Japanese developers said that it could not be replicated on other machines," Iwata said.
It was made in a relatively short period, so Iwata feels that HD development will not be a problem.
Nintendo's share price hit its lowest value in five years following the unveiling of the Wii U.
"There were high expectations from the new version of the Wii and this fell far short," said analyst Yusuke Tsunoda.
"People had expected to see something more at a big event like the E3, but there wasn't really anything more than what's already reported."
Iwata countered this criticism, saying feedback from those who actually played the Wii U was positive.
"Reactions directly from LA were extremely good," he said. "The majority of the overseas media offered congratulations. The reaction differed greatly between those who covered the product at the show and those who just covered it online. In other words, the point is how Nintendo can convey the value of the product."
Oli Welsh went hands-on at E3 for Eurogamer's Wii U preview.
The console launches some time next year but not before April.
Bold statement there.
Core gamers will accept the Wii U because it has high definition visuals and can be played in a conventional way, Nintendo has said.
That was boss Satoru Iwata's response when asked by a shareholder today whether the hardcore will accept Nintendo's next home console.
"Wii was not accepted by core gamers because they did not want to abandon their preferred control approach," he said, as reported by Andriasang.
"Additionally, Wii did not use HD because HD cost performance at the time was low. Wii U makes it easier to use conventional controls. Also, the Wii U controller is not as big or heavy as it looks."
Some criticised the Wii U's debut after Nintendo chose to showcase tech demos running on the hardware rather than games that will eventually launch.
This led to concern that the Wii U may suffer from a poor launch line-up of games - as the Nintendo 3DS did earlier this year - but Iwata told investors this will not be the case.
The CEO then suggested the eye-catching Zelda HD tech demo showcased at E3 was only possible on the Wii U.
"Regarding Zelda HD, Japanese developers said that it could not be replicated on other machines," Iwata said.
It was made in a relatively short period, so Iwata feels that HD development will not be a problem.
Nintendo's share price hit its lowest value in five years following the unveiling of the Wii U.
"There were high expectations from the new version of the Wii and this fell far short," said analyst Yusuke Tsunoda.
"People had expected to see something more at a big event like the E3, but there wasn't really anything more than what's already reported."
Iwata countered this criticism, saying feedback from those who actually played the Wii U was positive.
"Reactions directly from LA were extremely good," he said. "The majority of the overseas media offered congratulations. The reaction differed greatly between those who covered the product at the show and those who just covered it online. In other words, the point is how Nintendo can convey the value of the product."
Oli Welsh went hands-on at E3 for Eurogamer's Wii U preview.
The console launches some time next year but not before April.
Bold statement there.
Smiles and Cries
Member
EatChildren said:
I was afraid of that... I will just have to enjoy the WiiU for what it is
Wii Underdog
cyberheater
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EatChildren said:
Although this is true, Ninendo seems to imply that games will run at 1080p and if we assume that this means current and near future console games at acceptable framerates, it does infer a step up in power relative to the PS360. I hope so at least.
TwilightPrincess
Member
"The CEO then suggested the eye-catching Zelda HD tech demo showcased at E3 was only possible on the Wii U.
"Regarding Zelda HD, Japanese developers said that it could not be replicated on other machines," Iwata said.
It was made in a relatively short period, so Iwata feels that HD development will not be a problem."
Hope WiiU can do this graphics or better in a normal game. The lightning was good, but i don´t know if PS3 couldn´t handle this too....
"Regarding Zelda HD, Japanese developers said that it could not be replicated on other machines," Iwata said.
It was made in a relatively short period, so Iwata feels that HD development will not be a problem."
Hope WiiU can do this graphics or better in a normal game. The lightning was good, but i don´t know if PS3 couldn´t handle this too....
StevieP said:
Ok, so just so YOU know, the HD6770 is on par with the HD4870, there are numerous benchmarks with the 6770 (5770) and 4870 together, they tie, with 4870 slightly winning a couple frames here and there... Trinity actually won't be faster than a 640SP HD4000 based GPU, they should literally TIE, with the HD4000 chip coming out AHEAD.
Just thought I would let you in on that, but here is the important thing, both Microsoft and Nintendo will use highly customized chips, they will hit a target performance, but both xbox3 and WiiU will be comparable.
Even if you somehow managed to fit a HD6970 inside your console, you'd still only be about 2-2.5x as fast as Wii U's hardware range.
And for the poster above you, PS2 vs Gamecube was about half as powerful, for instance, RE4's leon had 10k ploygons on the gamecube and only 5k on the ps2, the gamecube version was progressive scan and kept a solid frame rate. PS2 isn't being thrown under a bus, it simply was only about half as powerful as the xbox, and gamecube was comparable to that system.
Wii U will be completely fine... look at BF3 for pc and then look at it for the consoles... That gap could hardly exist between the Wii U and PS4, Sony has directly stated that they won't be a huge leap forward beyond PS3.
Everyone right now needs to really think about what they are saying, I've read 4 pages of utter BS, speculation pulled nearly directly out of the air. This really isn't the gaf I've read for so long, and I think the problem is that everyone is afraid that Nintendo won't produce a console that is powerful... Well 3 weeks ago they proved that is exactly what they are building, just look at the tech demos, they have better DOF and lighting, plus many many other effects all running on unfinished, underclocked hardware AND to top it off, those demos are almost certainly rush jobs, as the garden demo wasn't even finished intime to make it into the press conference's video reel.
Sorry about my rant, but you guys are getting way ahead of yourselves.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
cyberheater said:
I dont doubt that Nintendo will push for 1080p on all its games regardless of the hardware, and if there's enough power under the hood it shouldn't be too difficult getting current gen ports to run at 1080p.
But its still a very vague statement that doesn't imply any specific level of hardware performance. Technically current gen systems (Wii aside) are 1080p, even if only 1% of games actually render at a native 1080p.
In a hypothetical (and impossible) future, Sony/Microsoft could release a next generation system that is 1000 times more powerful than the current generation and it would still be only 1080p. Consoles really have no reason to output at higher resolutions than whatever the current mass market standard of resolution for HDTVs is. All models you can buy max out at 1080p, and this wont change for a long time.
Quick and dirty example; years ago I owned a 6800GT graphics card. This was around 2004/2005. It had a maximum output resolution of 2048x1536, so well and above 1080p. This card was built for a generation of FarCry, Doom 3 and Half-Life 3 style games. Now I own a GTX 570. This card runs The Witcher 2 and Crysis 2 DX11 maxed out wonderfully. The two cards are a billion light years apart in terms of performance and generational gap, yet both can technically render 1080p.
Fact is we wont know what Nintendo are doing until we get concrete specs, which probably wont happen.
specialguy
Banned
StevieP said:
People need to get over that rumor. Almost certainly the next gen consoles, boring as it may be, will once again be based on IBM CPU's and AMD/Nvidia GPU's. There are very good reasons for this (for example, supposedly AMD and Intel's X86 licenses are such that it's almost impossible for their CPU's to be included in a console, the original Xbox lost a lot of money over this issue, hence 360 went with IBM), and we already have the first member of next gen the Wii U confirmed to use that trusty albeit boring IBM/AMD combo.
600 sp's for the Wii U GPU is way high too. I understand you're all hoping against hope the Wii U is a beast, just like so many refused to believe the Wii was just an overclocked Gamecube for so long.
I would bet almost to 100% certainty the Wii U's GPU is the RV730, which is 320 SP's. The machine also will likely have either 768 or 1GB RAM (I believe this due to a few hints of it having greater ram than PS360, it also makes sense as a necessity to drive a second screen), and a Xenon like tri-core CPU.
Here's one thing to know, the X360's GPU, while not truly analogous, could be vaguely described as a 240 SP part.
If you believe the Wii U has 600+ SP's, you're essentially claiming it's in the area of at least 3x as powerful as X360. All evidence to date (such as, all Wii u footage seen so far)points against that. Even Miyamoto himself directly stated Wii U probably wont greatly outperform current consoles.
It will also be quit easy for Wii U to get left in the dust for next gen ports, imo it's quite likely PS4 and Xbox 3 will include at least 4GB of RAM. I expect perhaps 1Gb in Wii U. It's very simple, devs would pretty quickly end up targeting the two 4GB consoles and leaving Wii U out. Even ignoring the almost certain (and quite possibly very large) CPU and GPU deficits Wii U would face.
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
I think we'll get a tidbit during GDC and a full blow out at E3 2012. Outside of that, we wont here of Wii U.
Smiles and Cries
Member
How long did it take us to get Wii specs?
I think the only way we get them is when Sony and MS put out a sheet comparing the Wii U to their new beasts
I think the only way we get them is when Sony and MS put out a sheet comparing the Wii U to their new beasts
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
TwilightPrincess said:
I don't take too much from this statement. I mean, at it's base, it could just mean that Zelda isn't possible on other machines because it's a Nintendo-owned property.
DaSorcerer7
Member
Plinko said:
You're joking right?
specialguy said:
Wii's GPU cost $42 at the time, the GPU you are guessing at, would cost nintendo $20 in bulk... seriously doubt they would do this. Expect atleast the 4730, which would cost them around the same as the Wii's GPU at launch did. There is reason to believe that they are spending even more on that as Miyamoto said that releasing a powerful console with a new controller does raise costs, and they are being a bit reckless in this regard.
If you want to ignore everything that is being said, atleast put the subtitle to your post: "highly speculative"
My last post hopefully gives you a good idea about why all this doom and gloom is gaf getting way ahead of itself.
cyberheater
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EatChildren said:
Yes. Nintendo keep repeating the mantra that it will be powerful enough whilst refusing to reveal target specifications. I guess devs with access to early and underpowered dev kits are under heavy NDA's not to reveal too much information.
My hunch given the fact that 3rd party devs reaction to the hardware has been rather reserved seems to point to a system that is reasonably more powerful then the current generation but they were hoping for more.
I was hoping to see statements like 'this thing will blow the PS360 out of the water' but I've not seen any of those.
The other thing that worries me is that I read about a dev wondering how to best use the tablet screen and that he thought that it wouldn't be a good idea to be able to play the game directly from the screen as a tv replacement. I hope Nintendo mandate that all games must be fully playable from the remote screen. It's a deal breaker for me.
bgassassin
Member
Annoying Old Party Man said:
If I'm understanding the question right, companies are having an easy time porting games. According to Vigil, Darksiders 2 was ported and ready to show at E3 in five weeks. Difficulty in porting is not something I would associate with the comments we've heard so far. The real question will be how far beyond that will developers push it?
And I don't see the latter happening at all unless you know of some new technology coming out that would cause MS and Sony to release $500+ consoles.
cyberheater
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z0m3le said:
One of the aspects of the E3 WiiU launch that attracted me the most was the fact that it showed it was possible to play the games from the remote screen.
I've got a wife and two kids and frankly, my opportunity to get onto the family tv to play video games diminishes every day.
The ability to play the games from the remote screen would be of great benefit to me.
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