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Wii3: Apocalypse Redux

andthebeatgoeson

Junior Member
effzee said:
would most ppl want mp3 over zelda for a launch? this is frikin zelda.

and can someone still tell me whats so bad about it being the gamecube zelda being ported to wii? we all know wii isnt that much more powerful than gamecube in terms of graphics so its not like if they built a zelda from the ground up for wii it would be dramatically different in terms of look. this is a killer app launch title and one of the biggest franchises in gaming ever.

that aside the 3rd party titles at launch can be hit or miss esp since we dont know how well or how badly they will implement the wiimote and motion sensor controls.

for me the only dissapointment is the launch date. so friking far away.

For me, I'll be there. I wish it was 200 but I was gonna get it anyway, I guess they figured they would rob me. I guess I just have to decide between Rayman and Redsteel. Well, it does have WiFi, a free game (which would be nice if they did an old school master system vibe that was just included in the hardware) and a full controller. Just kill the friends' code and get a universal login.
 

GG-Duo

Member
Rational gamers choose subsidized hardware, all else equal

The reaction to our post about the Wii being profitable at launch puzzles.

If companies like Sony and Microsoft want to subsidize their consoles to the the point that they're losing money on every unit sold, shouldn't we (as rational consumers) want to take advantage of this built-in subsidy? All else equal, shouldn't a rational consumer choose the console with the largest built-in subsidy?

Sony and Microsoft are giving us free hardware when they sell each console at a loss. A gamer who wants the most computing power for his buck will naturally prefer the subsidized console, ceteris paribus. Whether this is ultimately healthy for Microsoft and Sony is another matter entirely. The ultimate profitability of a game manufacturer is no concern of ours, as gamers.

One final point: if a company doesn't believe in its product enough to take a small loss at launch, what does this risk averseness say about executive confidence in the long-run prospects of the product? A larger, up-front investment indicates stronger confidence that a product will eventually be successful enough to pay for initial investment.

Link: http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/14/an...your/#comments

I think Joystiq is just playing the devil's advocate here. In a previous post they (or i guess another blog contributor) said "Show me great games, and Nintendo can profit off this blogger all they want."

Anyway, to rebutt: Pearl Harbour the movie.
 

Amir0x

Banned
xsarien said:
The video game road that leads from the first oscilloscope Pong game to the PS3 is littered with "superior hardware" that had nothing but crap.

Good game designers don't need hardware, they just need ideas.

They don't need it, but it sure as hell helps. And therefore, it's important. But, we all know Wii is a piece of shit hardware wise and that has been discussed millions of times so i definitely don't want to start that debate.

Just sayin', it's not sad for people to find hardware important. Because it is.
 

Mama Smurf

My penis is still intact.
Oh yeah, it's also really annoyed me that, yet again, Nintendo has said a big FU to it's fans on the net. Where the hell are the trailers?! I know they want us to play the games and they're probably worried we'll just see the graphics and not how the games work with the wiimote and that'll hurt them against other systems, but it's not like we won't see the games somehow. Difference is, when Nintendo releases a trailer they can pick the best moments with perfect detail all being played by an expert at the game. When I watch some shitty camera footage I think the game looks worst than it does and have to sit through retards who don't understand how the wiimote could be used to throw a punch.

Am I just never going to see proper trailers for individual Nintendo games again? It's not like they capture screens well, even though they're willing to release them.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Are people really pissed or have we just run out of shit to be excited about?

You're pissed because they haven't released better trailers? seriously?
 

NeonZ

Member
One final point: if a company doesn't believe in its product enough to take a small loss at launch, what does this risk averseness say about executive confidence in the long-run prospects of the product? A larger, up-front investment indicates stronger confidence that a product will eventually be successful enough to pay for initial investment.

What happened to that report about small losses for the Wii? Was that report fake?
 
Mama Smurf said:
Oh yeah, it's also really annoyed me that, yet again, Nintendo has said a big FU to it's fans on the net. Where the hell are the trailers?! I know they want us to play the games and they're probably worried we'll just see the graphics and not how the games work with the wiimote and that'll hurt them against other systems, but it's not like we won't see the games somehow. Difference is, when Nintendo releases a trailer they can pick the best moments with perfect detail all being played by an expert at the game. When I watch some shitty camera footage I think the game looks worst than it does and have to sit through retards who don't understand how the wiimote could be used to throw a punch.

Am I just never going to see proper trailers for individual Nintendo games again? It's not like they capture screens well, even though they're willing to release them.

This angers me too. We didn't even get a real Zelda trailer this year, just a shitty low res thing for the Gamecube version.
 

duderon

rollin' in the gutter
People that are exlaiming "worst launch ever", forget that all system launches are lackluster. Wii is lucky to have a killer app in Zelda and i don't care if it's an overdue GameCube game, it's a new freakin Zelda.

With that said, does anyone know if there is a limit on SD card size used in Wii?
 

Amir0x

Banned
duderon said:
People that are exlaiming "worst launch ever", forget that all system launches are lackluster. Wii is lucky to have a killer app in Zelda and i don't care if it's an overdue GameCube game, it's a new freakin Zelda.

With that said, does anyone know if there is a limit on SD card size used in Wii?

No I don't forget, I know most launches suck. I've argued about it plenty of times before.
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
Amir0x said:
Just sayin', it's not sad for people to find hardware important.


It kinda is. Basing your decision based on what a system can do (i.e., potential) to the exclusion of what software is and will be available is, at best, uninformed and at worst myopic. You're essentially putting your trust in a developer's willigness to 1) Make games for that platform; 2) Makes games for that platform that are substantially more than just million dollar tech demos.

I didn't buy a 360 because of ZOMG SERIOUS HARDWARE!, I bought it because of Lumines Live, Gears of War, and Dead Rising and a refinement of an already polished online service; I want a Wii because my Gamecube's toast and I've got some good games in that stack, plus I'm tentatively convinced that some genuinely unique experiences can be drawn from the controller.

The PS3 is nice, but what exactly does it bring to the table outside of Blu-Ray and more horsepower?
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
duderon said:
People that are exlaiming "worst launch ever", forget that all system launches are lackluster. Wii is lucky to have a killer app in Zelda and i don't care if it's an overdue GameCube game, it's a new freakin Zelda.

With that said, does anyone know if there is a limit on SD card size used in Wii?


last thing i heard about sd cards was that they were limited to flasy memory only, w/e that means.
 

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
xsarien said:
It kinda is. Basing your decision based on what a system can do (i.e., potential) to the exclusion of what software is and will be available is, at best, uninformed and at worst myopic. You're essentially putting your trust in a developer's willigness to 1) Make games for that platform; 2) Makes games for that platform that are substantially more than just million dollar tech demos.

I didn't buy a 360 because of ZOMG SERIOUS HARDWARE!, I bought it because of Lumines Live, Gears of War, and Dead Rising and a refinement of an already polished online service; I want a Wii because my Gamecube's toast and I've got some good games in that stack, plus I'm tentatively convinced that some genuinely unique experiences can be drawn from the controller.

The PS3 is nice, but what exactly does it bring to the table outside of Blu-Ray and more horsepower?

i like you
 

Mama Smurf

My penis is still intact.
PantherLotus said:
Are people really pissed or have we just run out of shit to be excited about?

You're pissed because they haven't released better trailers? seriously?

They haven't released any trailers of some games. Mario Galaxy and MP3 for example (well, the latter got a shitty, and now obviously not actually part of the game, trailer a couple of E3s ago). At best we get 10 seconds of them in other compilations.

Trailers are exciting. That Smash Bros one was awesome. At E3s or Space Worlds I used to look forward to two things the most: trailers and interviews. Now they're kinda ruining half the excitement for me.
 

Amir0x

Banned
xsarien said:
It kinda is. Basing your decision based on what a system can do (i.e., potential) to the exclusion of what software is and will be available is, at best, uninformed and at worst myopic. You're essentially putting your trust in a developer's willigness to 1) Make games for that platform; 2) Makes games for that platform that are substantially more than just million dollar tech demos.

I don't buy the PR line - I want superior graphics in my games, and I want epic scope, I want multi-million dollar productions. That's what I want from games. Superior hardware contributes to everything from better A.I. to better physics, to larger scope... all will play a role in directly impacting gameplay.

There's no 'exclusion' of software. Just In the context of PS3 and 360, they're offering the hardware and plenty of software I want. It's a huge consideration. If I wasn't so poor at the moment, I'd already be at the doorstop of one of the systems this fall. Wii, on the other hand... well, you REALLY gotta trust devs are gonna eventually make compelling games for the platform because it's coming up a tad bit short. And by 'tad' i mean 'a lot.'

So at the moment, where does the trust lie? It's all on 'potential', and they all have dramatic ways to deliver their potential

xsarien said:
The PS3 is nice, but what exactly does it bring to the table outside of Blu-Ray and more horsepower?

More great games with even better visuals and gameplay. Same with 360. The same thing that I expect from all my systems. I love games, so that is by far all a system needs to offer. It's nice Wii offers something 'different', but it's not "sad" to find importance in hardware. It is, in fact, just one of the essential factors of any systems ability to deliver compelling game experiences.

But, if we don't agree with the premise we'll never agree in this debate :(
 

Nameless

Member
xsarien said:
It kinda is. Basing your decision based on what a system can do (i.e., potential) to the exclusion of what software is and will be available is, at best, uninformed and at worst myopic. You're essentially putting your trust in a developer's willigness to 1) Make games for that platform; 2) Makes games for that platform that are substantially more than just million dollar tech demos.

I didn't buy a 360 because of ZOMG SERIOUS HARDWARE!, I bought it because of Lumines Live, Gears of War, and Dead Rising and a refinement of an already polished online service; I want a Wii because my Gamecube's toast and I've got some good games in that stack, plus I'm tentatively convinced that some genuinely unique experiences can be drawn from the controller.

The PS3 is nice, but what exactly does it bring to the table outside of Blu-Ray and more horsepower?

But it goes hand in hand. Your logic is fine if you don't plan on buying anything after the current release line-up has been exhausted. But what about a year or two down the line? The Wii's [lack of] hardware potential worries me about its future, especially with 3rd party developers. Its fine now as we see Wii versions of games like Madden,RE, and Call of Duty use last (current) generation versions of the games. But very soon developers are going to utilize next-generation engines exclusively and Wii will no doubt be left out in the cold in many cases.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Mama Smurf said:
They haven't released any trailers of some games. Mario Galaxy and MP3 for example (well, the latter got a shitty, and now obviously not actually part of the game, trailer a couple of E3s ago). At best we get 10 seconds of them in other compilations.

Trailers are exciting. That Smash Bros one was awesome. At E3s or Space Worlds I used to look forward to two things the most: trailers and interviews. Now they're kinda ruining half the excitement for me.


did you miss that one that was like 10 minutes long that showed like 50+ games?
and the Red Steel one?
 

effzee

Member
hey ami are the times on the first page correct for europe?

Finally the Europe event comes third:
8:00AM (Friday) - 2:00PM (Friday) EDT
5:00AM (Friday) - 11:00AM (Friday) PDT
11:00AM (Friday) - 5:00PM (Friday) GMT/UTC
12:00PM (Friday) - 6:00PM (Friday) BST
10:00PM (Friday) - 4:00AM (Saturday) Japan Time

or are they also off 3 hrs?
 

Dracos

Member
Just got home and finally caught up with the thread. part of me is extremely happy about all of this news. Businesswise it's a smart launch and customerwise it'll be a great launch. One of the best ever I think.

The other part of me is laughing at all of the hard work a few haters are putting forth. It's the same folks posting the same shit over and over, trying to harp on the least little thing. "OMG Wii doesn't play DVD's anymore! I'm not buyig it." :lol
 

Amir0x

Banned
effzee said:
hey ami are the times on the first page correct for europe?

Finally the Europe event comes third:
8:00AM (Friday) - 2:00PM (Friday) EDT
5:00AM (Friday) - 11:00AM (Friday) PDT
11:00AM (Friday) - 5:00PM (Friday) GMT/UTC
12:00PM (Friday) - 6:00PM (Friday) BST
10:00PM (Friday) - 4:00AM (Saturday) Japan Time

or are they also off 3 hrs?

might be off on 3 hrs, i'm definitely not certain.
 

SantaC

Member
Amir0x said:
might be off on 3 hrs, i'm definitely not certain.

An hour-long press conference will take place at 12PM BST, followed by interviews with key staff including Nintendo's UK boss David Yarnton, and a chance to go hands-on with the software.

eurogamer
 

kojacker

Member
effzee said:
hey ami are the times on the first page correct for europe?

Finally the Europe event comes third:
8:00AM (Friday) - 2:00PM (Friday) EDT
5:00AM (Friday) - 11:00AM (Friday) PDT
11:00AM (Friday) - 5:00PM (Friday) GMT/UTC
12:00PM (Friday) - 6:00PM (Friday) BST
10:00PM (Friday) - 4:00AM (Saturday) Japan Time

or are they also off 3 hrs?
I read somewhere earlier that it was 12.00PM GMT tomorrow, not 11.00AM as above. But really, i don't know which to believe.

EDIT: I think I've mixed up my BST and GMT, sorry folks! Nothing to see here...
 

duderon

rollin' in the gutter
Nameless said:
But it goes hand in hand. Your logic is fine if you don't plan on buying anything after the current release line-up has been exhausted. But what about a year or two down the line? The Wii's [lack of] hardware potential worries me about its future, especially with 3rd party developers. Its fine now as we see Wii versions of games like Madden,RE, and Call of Duty use last (current) generation versions of the games. But very soon developers are going to utilize next-generation engines exclusively and Wii will no doubt be left out in the cold in many cases.

Look at the DS, it's having absolutely NO problems with 3rd party support.
 

Mama Smurf

My penis is still intact.
PantherLotus said:
did you miss that one that was like 10 minutes long that showed like 50+ games?

I already mentioned compilations. It's trailers for individual games I want, at least 30 seconds long, properly edited to get me excited, like they used to do for almost all their games. Certainly their biggest ones.

and the Red Steel one?

By Nintendo games, I mean actual Nintendo ones, third parties seem to be better at getting trailers out there.

I was actually wrong about MP3, there was a trailer, so I back down on that. Still, it's beyond me that there isn't a proper Mario Galaxy trailer out there.
 

Jive Turkey

Unconfirmed Member
Holy shit...People are actually upset about no DVD playback? At one time I had 6 DVD players in ONE ROOM! Who the hell doesn't own some device capable of plaving a DVD?
 

xabre

Banned
Jive Turkey said:
Holy shit...People are actually upset about no DVD playback? At one time I had 6 DVD players in ONE ROOM! Who the hell doesn't own some device capable of plaving a DVD?

Oh awesome SIX IN ONE ROOM?

You people have no sense of cleanliness whatsoever.
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
Amir0x said:
I don't buy the PR line - I want superior graphics in my games, and I want epic scope, I want multi-million dollar productions. That's what I want from games. Superior hardware contributes to everything from better A.I. to better physics, to larger scope... all will play a role in directly impacting gameplay.

...If developers choose to use the power. For example: The Gamecube had plenty of power under the hood, moreso than the PS2. How many developers actually pushed that system very hard? Think. Offhand, Capcom comes to mind with RE4, and Nintendo themselves with stuff like F-Zero, Metroid and Zelda TP.

There's no 'exclusion' of software. Just In the context of PS3 and 360, they're offering the hardware and plenty of software I want. It's a huge consideration. If I wasn't so poor at the moment, I'd already be at the doorstop of one of the systems this fall. Wii, on the other hand... well, you REALLY gotta trust devs are gonna eventually make compelling games for the platform because it's coming up a tad bit short. And by 'tad' i mean 'a lot.'

Consider your position and see what's pushing your purchasing decision: The "software [you] want," or the hardware. I don't know about you, but if enough compelling games come out for HAPPY PINK 8-BIT WAGGLE WAND KIDDIE 360 I'd buy it. Sure it's got all the beef of a Game Gear, but a fun game is a fun game, that's not determined by a chip inside the machine.

Amir0x said:
So at the moment, where does the trust lie? It's all on 'potential', and they all have dramatic ways to deliver their potential

I trust that the absolute worst scenario for the Wii is that Nintendo will give it plenty of good software. That, plus the VC is enough to justify the cost of the system.


Amir0x said:
I love games, so that is by far all a system needs to offer.

So who cares if it has enough bloom effects?

Amir0x said:
But, if we don't agree with the premise we'll never agree in this debate :(
We both agree that Nintendogs and Animal Crossing suck. :p

Nameless said:
But it goes hand in hand. Your logic is fine if you don't plan on buying anything after the current release line-up has been exhausted.

Not really, I'll continue to buy systems as long as games come out for them. Developer support moves, I move, developers move, I move, etc. Why they move is their prerogative, but I've never, ever been driven to buy a system just because its spec sheet is nicer than another's.

Nameless said:
But what about a year or two down the line? The Wii's [lack of] hardware potential worries me about its future, especially with 3rd party developers. Its fine now as we see Wii versions of games like Madden,RE, and Call of Duty use last (current) generation versions of the games. But very soon developers are going to utilize next-generation engines exclusively and Wii will no doubt be left out in the cold in many cases.

I'd imagine that if Nintendo just wanted ports of games on their system, they would've just upgraded the usual suspects - CPU/Graphics/Audio/Memory - and called it a day. It was clear from the beginning that they were demanding something more original from themselves and 3rd parties. Will that pan out? Who the **** knows, but Nintendo's track record in game design is pretty solid (no matter how much I may personally dislike some titles.)
 

Ashodin

Member
Amir0x said:
So at the moment, where does the trust lie? It's all on 'potential', and they all have dramatic ways to deliver their potential
It's very likely that Wii go could go the route of DS in Japan - as soon as sales skyrocket and pull away from the PS3, support and development on Wii goes forth.

We'll get deep effort from SE (like the DS love) and forthcoming support from loads of Japanese developers. That's what makes me excited.

The console future is easily looking like (in US) Xbox360 for the HD gaming, Wii for the new gaming style (remote). The PS3 doesn't make the equation because a lot of people are going to be uncertain on the format, the price, etc, to buy.
 
Jive Turkey said:
Holy shit...People are actually upset about no DVD playback? At one time I had 6 DVD players in ONE ROOM! Who the hell doesn't own some device capable of plaving a DVD?

ask Sega what happened in Japan when the PS2 arrived with DVD playback.
It shook the earth and halted the Dreamcast in its tracks in Japan and began the begining of the end of the beloved DC.

Nobody had DVD players in Japan in 1999, 2000. The DVD player in the PS2 (even if it was crap) slowed the Dreamcast considerably
 

Jive Turkey

Unconfirmed Member
xabre said:
Oh awesome SIX IN ONE ROOM?

You people have no sense of cleanliness whatsoever.
What the hell is with you? Cleanliness? My media room is completely sterile and all cords are hidden. Doesn't change the fact that I have a stand alone DVD player, a PS2, an Xbox, and 3 PCs all with DVD drives the same room.

Seriously man...you're jumpin over the line from a little nutty to ****in' goofy.

gutter_trash said:
ask Sega what happened in Japan when the PS2 arrived with DVD playback.
It shook the earth and halted the Dreamcast in its tracks in Japan and began the begining of the end of the beloved DC.

Nobody had DVD players in Japan in 1999, 2000. The DVD player in the PS2 (even if it was crap) slowed the Dreamcast considerably
Bolded to help you understand your own post...
 

Krowley

Member
reallyfun said:
wtf is up with the Wii hate all of a sudden??

Price announcements always generate hate.. It reminds us that we actually have to pay for this crap and we get buyers remorse even before spending the money, because we know we will buy it eventually. And to be fair, nintendo is overpricing the wii in the US by forcing everybody to pay full price+ for Wii sports even if they don't want it.


Anyway, i'm wondering where all the previews are... I've only read one red steele preview, and i'm wondering if sonic was playable... No vids of sonic so far, very few red steel vids, no rayman impressions or gameplay videos... The press coverage has been lacking. Not in terms of quality, but in terms of quantity. It's taking too long.
 
GG-Duo said:
I think Joystiq is just playing the devil's advocate here. In a previous post they (or i guess another blog contributor) said "Show me great games, and Nintendo can profit off this blogger all they want."

Anyway, to rebutt: Pearl Harbour the movie.
compelte utter bullshit, consider he knows nothing about business. and the reason nintendo is the most profitable gaming company of the 3. practically one of the most probitable business out there. As a company your goal is the bottom line, while appiseing consumers cones second.
 

Nameless

Member
xsarien said:
I'd imagine that if Nintendo just wanted ports of games on their system, they would've just upgraded the usual suspects - CPU/Graphics/Audio/Memory - and called it a day. It was clear from the beginning that they were demanding something more original from themselves and 3rd parties. Will that pan out? Who the **** knows, but Nintendo's track record in game design is pretty solid (no matter how much I may personally dislike some titles.)


Did you break into Nintendo HQ and rip that straight off a mission statement? This whole thing about Nintendo "not competing" against Sony and MS is only an attempt to hide the truth that they probably can't. From a technical standpoint Nintendo has always been slow, and tha fact has gotten harder and harder to hide. So instead they are trying to immerse people by the 'unique' experience that the wii-mote will offer, instead of using the advancements in gaming technology to do so.
 

Dynamite Shikoku

Congratulations, you really deserve it!
gutter_trash said:
ask Sega what happened in Japan when the PS2 arrived with DVD playback.
It shook the earth and halted the Dreamcast in its tracks in Japan and began the begining of the end of the beloved DC.

Nobody had DVD players in Japan in 1999, 2000. The DVD player in the PS2 (even if it was crap) slowed the Dreamcast considerably

Which has what to do with what?
 
Jive Turkey said:
Bolded to help you understand your own post...

true that the year was a maker. But history is happening again with introduction of medium in a console,
Maybe Blue Ray is too early too soon now, but it is going to be introduced into homes who have a PS3. Eventually in a year or two when prices calm down, the extras in the PS3 has more long lasting longevity + Blue Ray in your home for a cheap price (cheap blue ray player I mean, not cheap game console)
 
gutter_trash said:
true that the year was a maker. But history is happening again with introduction of medium in a console,
Maybe Blue Ray is too early too soon now, but it is going to be introduced into homes who have a PS3. Eventually in a year or two when prices calm down, the extras in the PS3 has more long lasting longevity + Blue Ray in your home for a cheap price (cheap blue ray player I mean, not cheap game console)

Take a deep breath and say it with me......Blu-Ray will not have the same impact as DVD.
 

ant1532

Banned
This is going to be a real good launch for me. Zelda launch title simply makes it amazing.
I'll be getting:
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Trauma Center: Second Opinion
Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz
Rayman Raving Rabbids

Will Rent:
Red Steel (Might buy if final is real good and scores above 8)
Elebits (Might buy if final is real good and scores above 8)
Tony Hawk's Downhill Jam
 
metdroid said:
Which has what to do with what?

Discussion about DVD playback with Jive Turkey and reminissing about 1999/2000?
You are named after a game that is about backtracking, why don't you backtrack a few posts and read?
 

duderon

rollin' in the gutter
Nameless said:
Did you break into Nintendo HQ and rip that straight off a mission statement? This whole thing about Nintendo "not competing" against Sony and MS is only an attempt to hide the truth that they probably can't. From a technical standpoint Nintendo has always been slow, and tha fact has gotten harder and harder to hide. So instead they are trying to immerse people by the 'unique' experience that the wii-mote will offer, instead of using the advancements in gaming technology to do so.

They were on par technically last generation and you are spot on with the last sentence. They've proven to me that they can make the "unique" experience work with DS and that's why i'm on board with Wii.
 

Nameless

Member
Juice said:
This is perhaps the stupidest thing anyone's drawn from this entire 4000 post orgy of idiocy.


I think its more principle than anything. They're already charging us $250 for last generation hardware, the wii-motes are insanely expensives, the game they're packing in, only internet board nintendo fans want, DVD playback SHOULD be in. And you never know, I have a stand-alone DVD Player, but there have been times when my the DVD Playback in my PS2 and Xbox became VERY handy.
 
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