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[PanicFreak]

I think you are wrong. The gaming division is only a small part and not profitable. The division is nice to have but no must-have.

It's Microsoft's most successful consumer facing brand they have ever created. If you know anything about Microsoft, you'd know they have been trying to crack the consumer market unsuccessfully for ever.

I don't think they'll ever get rid of the Xbox unit unless they have a runaway success product that literally cannot be integrated into the Xbox in any way.

 

[Principate]

I don't know why they don't just give Kinect a little slot-mouth to put discs in and give him his own little GPU if they love it so much



Leave it mate, he's already ejected from his Titan.

More ad hominems. The saddest thing on Neogaf is when people talk about avatars and tags rather than the actual topic of the thread.

I love it when people say I play shoot bangs too many I've barely played any in years but go ahead feel better about your arbitrary arguments.

 

[N.Domixis]

sony knows an opportunity has opened to take back the US, they will do everything they can do to take it. If ms cut the price that low sony would do something.

 

[FiggyCal]

So much (blind) hope in this thread.

I think people are forgetting that MS put a LOT of money into Kinect. They built the system mainly for Kinect. Yes, everyone hates it. Yes, everyone wants it gone. But the truth is, they've invested far too much into this aspect of the the all-in-one entertainment system to simply say, eh, well let's get rid of it.

Microsoft has made it clear they wouldn't mind having a system without a disc drive. In all honesty, you're probably going to get a system without a disc drive before you get a system without Kinect.

That system would bomb horribly. It would be disastrous for the Xbox brand.

As for kinect; Microsoft may have invested a ton of money into it, but if the software isn't selling well and the price of kinect is making the Xbox One less competitive -- it would be smart of MS to throw it out.

 

[rocketskates]

I don't know why they don't just give Kinect a little slot-mouth to put discs in and give him his own little GPU if they love it so much

Somewhere at MS, I'm sure there's a whiteboard with plans already drawn up for that haha.

But you're right. They love it so much and that's why they won't be so fast to get rid of it, even though everyone wants them to.

That system would bomb horribly. It would be disastrous for the Xbox brand.

As for kinect; Microsoft may have invested a ton of money into it, but if the software isn't selling well and the price of kinect is making the Xbox One less competitive -- it would be smart of MS to throw it out.

I used to think it would be a bad idea too, but I've seen so many people (even on here) say they would LOVE a digital only system. I mean, I would never want one because I love my physical media but trust me, there's a want for it.

The last thread we had about the digital only box,a couple people chimed in with what they figured each component cost and how much it would affect the cost if it were removed, unfortunately I forget all those details.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

More ad hominems. The saddest thing on Neogaf is when people talk about avatars and tags rather than the actual topic of the thread.

I was just doing a little joke to calm the action, thought it might make you stop and think but now you're firing at me with some latin stuff.

 

[2345425]

Are you being obtuse on purpose?

PS3 launch aligned sold less than the WiiU and yet will it have more than twice the userbase WiiU will ever have.

Whats more the post was talking about XB1.

Non-holiday launch, no gaemz, consoles are dead in Japan etc., and it's still selling way better on a weekly basis (the PS4 that is).

I'll laugh my pants off if Phil Spencer actually goes to open Microsoft's massive war chest and it turns out to be a Mimic.

lol

 

[Skeff]

It's Microsoft's most successful consumer facing brand they have ever created. If you know anything about Microsoft, you'd know they have been trying to crack the consumer market unsuccessfully for ever.

I don't think they'll ever get rid of the Xbox unit unless they have a runaway success product that literally cannot be integrated into the Xbox in any way.

Wouldn't Microsoft's most successful consumer facing brand be windows and office?

If you had said Device, I'd agree that it was the least unsuccessful.

 

[Principate]

I was just doing a little joke to calm the action, thought it might make you stop and think but now you're firing at me with some latin stuff.

Concentrate on the argument at hand, it's a more productive that way, to me at least anyway.

Maybe because I spend more time in sales gaf but I actually enjoy market analysis.

 

[geordiemp]

they could essentially tie a subsidized subscription model of Morpheus to PS+; instead of $5 a month you'd pay, say, $8 or $10 a month (your choice) to pay off for Morpheus.
.

Nope, I don't believe anybody would offer hardware such as Morpheus on a subscription model....that would be business suicide...

Software and services on subscription yes,...

Hardware people can take it, throw in bin and not subscribe....

 

[Andrew.]

All this undercutter talk...

http://youtu.be/PdfztAY3qoU

 

[myharlequin]

But you just said MS were winning, wouldn't your gaming utopia be better if Sony and Nintendo were all about 'games, games and games' as well?



He's angry with you because you have no idea what's happening in Japan. No idea!

Wait what? winning what? I think you quote the wrong guy.

And yes..... Sony, Nintendo and MS should focus on games and games and games, and haters figth for pixels and frames

 

[benny_a]

I was just doing a little joke to calm the action, thought it might make you stop and think but now you're firing at me with some latin stuff.

I also tried to humanize the whole situation but alas it was not successful.

Boarding now so have fun guys.

 

[Cueil]

I suppose MS could announce cable and sat. partnerships where you get the Xbox One as a cable box for subsidized price. Would you rather have and Xbox One or a crappy Motorola box running old version of Java?

 

[Curufinwe]

I suppose MS could announce cable and sat. partnerships where you get the Xbox One as a cable box for subsidized price. Would you rather have and Xbox One or a crappy Motorola box running old version of Java?

Cable companies have no reason to do that.

 

[myharlequin]

I love this world we live in. People get told their opinions can be fact and they believe it.

the same way you believe the opposite xD hahaha

 

[IAmRandom31]

sony knows an opportunity has opened to take back the US, they will do everything they can do to take it. If ms cut the price that low sony would do something.

This man gets it.

People talk like Microsoft is the company holding all the cards and possibilities. The PS4 might be Sony's cheapest console yet. None of the insanity that was part of the PS3's production.

Like Skeff has been saying. Sony could easily see the 60-70% PS+ integration per console sold as a profit in the end, and start selling PS4's cheaper with anticipation that those people buying the console will also get PS+ for a year.

And then of course comes the obvious potential for massive hardware manufacturing cost drops as time goes along since this hardware is not nearly as complex as before. The price of the GDDR5 will drop exponentially between Holida 2013 to Holiday 2015.

It all depends on how well Sony thinks there position is / will be come Holiday 2014. If they see a drop as something they can sustain financially, It would not shock me to see them do it.

I for one would be shocked if Microsoft sticks to their guns and never releases a Kinect-less $399 console with Live included or something in that nature. ( heck a kinect-less box could likely sell for 250-299 )

 

[Skeff]

I suppose MS could announce cable and sat. partnerships where you get the Xbox One as a cable box for subsidized price. Would you rather have and Xbox One or a crappy Motorola box running old version of Java?

except the XB1 isn't a cable box, so it can't replace a cable box....It would need to be in addition to a cable box...

 

[Apathy]

That system would bomb horribly. It would be disastrous for the Xbox brand.

As for kinect; Microsoft may have invested a ton of money into it, but if the software isn't selling well and the price of kinect is making the Xbox One less competitive -- it would be smart of MS to throw it out.

Agreed. Have people forgotten that Microsoft branded the One as a home entertainment all in one machine. To them it can do it all, Internet, TV, Games, Movies, Skype and Streaming. Sure downloading/streaming is becoming bigger and more people do it, but there are a lot of people that still want to use discs (either because of bad internet, or can't find what they want online or because they already own a physical copy and do not want to rebuy it). To take away the disc drive no longer makes it the "one stop" place to go for entertainment.

 

[Abdiel]

I suppose MS could announce cable and sat. partnerships where you get the Xbox One as a cable box for subsidized price. Would you rather have and Xbox One or a crappy Motorola box running old version of Java?

Have you seen the Comcast X1 platforms? They already do voice commands and are dedicated DVR hardware, rather than having to then go through another piece of equipment, as well as not requiring Gold to use apps like netflix through them. Not much of a win, there.

 

[rocketskates]

I agree with your reasoning, but I think the Xbox is important to Microsofts identity. Kind of like the Corvette is important to GM. Not for direct sales but for image.

I'm pretty sure Elop and the rest of MS gives zero fucks about the identity. They're about making money.

And that was a really bad comparison. Corvette actually sells a lot and is quite a beast of a car.

Agreed. Have people forgotten that Microsoft branded the One as a home entertainment all in one machine. To them it can do it all, Internet, TV, Games, Movies, Skype and Streaming. Sure downloading/streaming is becoming bigger and more people do it, but there are a lot of people that still want to use discs (either because of bad internet, or can't find what they want online or because they already own a physical copy and do not want to rebuy it). To take away the disc drive no longer makes it the "one stop" place to go for entertainment.

Easy solution. Make 2 SKUS. Keep current model at same price or lower ~$50 and make the digital only box.

Like I said, you seem to be forgetting MS has wanted to do a digital only system for a while now.

 

[Fallout-with-swords]

If Microsoft dropped the Kinect wouldn't the interface be horrible without it? The whole system was built with the Kinect in mind I don't think they ever want to assume that not everyone has one, sort of like the Hard Drive situation last gen.

 

[FiggyCal]

I used to think it would be a bad idea too, but I've seen so many people (even on here) say they would LOVE a digital only system. I mean, I would never want one because I love my physical media but trust me, there's a want for it.

The last thread we had about the digital only box,a couple people chimed in with what they figured each component cost and how much it would affect the cost if it were removed, unfortunately I forget all those details.

People on gaf don't make a fair representation of gaming audiences as a whole. I mean there are still people saying that they want a Vita t.v. How many people on neogaf own both a Vita and Wii U? It can be a bit of a bubble on here.

 

[dreamer3kx]

How about if Sony announced a price cut and MS didnt, game over, not happening but that would be pretty funny.

 

[myharlequin]

I suppose MS could announce cable and sat. partnerships where you get the Xbox One as a cable box for subsidized price. Would you rather have and Xbox One or a crappy Motorola box running old version of Java?

Don't be surprised if some people tell you that they prefer the Motorola box.

"Irrational hatred"

 

[Arkage]

Which will be a lot of console owners.

Also - some posts on this thread are implying MS has dropped the RRP of the XBone - they haven't, all these discounts are retailer driven.

I doubt the retailers are the ones accruing losses from including Titanfall and Forza for free. Those are all MS losses. The $50 price cuts on top of that? Maybe. We can't be certain MS isn't cutting some sort of profit deal with them just to get units moving. MS has more motivation to move units then a retailer has to lose out on $50 per sale when it's still selling just fine.

 

[Curufinwe]

Don't be surprised if some people tell you that they prefer the Motorola box.

"Irrational hatred"

The Motorola box would be a DVR. Unlike the Xbone.

 

[Principate]

This man gets it.

People talk like Microsoft is the company holding all the cards and possibilities. The PS4 might be Sony's cheapest console yet. None of the insanity that was part of the PS3's production.

Like Skeff has been saying. Sony could easily see the 60-70% PS+ integration per console sold as a profit in the end, and start selling PS4's cheaper with anticipation that those people buying the console will also get PS+ for a year.

And then of course comes the obvious potential for massive hardware manufacturing cost drops as time goes along since this hardware is not nearly as complex as before. The price of the GDDR5 will drop exponentially between Holida 2013 to Holiday 2015.

It all depends on how well Sony thinks there position is / will be come Holiday 2014. If they see a drop as something they can sustain financially, It would not shock me to see them do it.

I for one would be shocked if Microsoft sticks to their guns and never releases a Kinect-less $399 console with Live included or something in that nature.

I don't think Sony needs to, not yet anyway, Sony overall isn't doing great hence all the lay offs they're not in a rush to reduce their revenue. The PS4 is selling gangbuster in almost all over the world and there's still a significant gap in comparison to XB1, Sony has a massive advantage in Europe even if they lose Uk and US by a small margin they'll still probably be outselling the XB1 by a far bit.

All this leads me to believe If Sony were to cut the price of the PS4 anytime soon it'll be for revenue reasons rather than in reaction to XB1. They are very much in command of this race.

 

[Abdiel]

Don't be surprised if some people tell you that they prefer the Motorola box.

"Irrational hatred"

Irrational hatred? The logic behind his post makes no sense. You'd have to have the Xbox One *and* a traditional box, because the Xbox One is not cable capable. It just has the HDMI in. Not only that, but providers like Comcast already have solutions that are up to date, with voice commands, apps like Netflix and native DVR function, right on the one device, without requiring a camera attatched to your home theatre set up. How is that irrational hatred?

 

[rocketskates]

People on gaf don't make a fair representation of gaming audiences as a whole. I mean there are still people saying that they want a Vita t.v. How many people on neogaf own both a Vita and Wii U? It can be a bit of a bubble on here.

That's why I said "even on here". Almost every gaming site that reports news and even on some other of the message boards I'm on, people have been open to the idea.

I blame music somewhat. Ever since CD sales went down and iTunes and the such took over, people have started to embrace a digital everything only future.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Wait what? winning what? I think you quote the wrong guy.

And yes..... Sony, Nintendo and MS should focus on games and games and games, and haters figth for pixels and frames

You said:

the xbone is the most solid, and with better games

and I read that as 'xbox is winning', what should I have said?

 

[Abdiel]

I doubt the retailers are the ones accruing losses from including Titanfall and Forza for free. Those are all MS losses. The $50 price cuts on top of that? Maybe. We can't be certain MS isn't cutting some sort of profit deal with them just to get units moving. MS has more motivation to move units then a retailer has to lose out on $50 per sale when it's still selling just fine.

When retailers begin taking those kinds of discounts off of product, on such a large scale, it's usually due to the manufacture offering what's called "Vendor Credit". Best Buy negotiates that sort of thing pretty aggressively, so as not to just eat the costs, especially when our stores stop placing orders for replacement stock if the manufacturer won't accommodate those sort of deals. You think WalMart, Best Buy, Amazon, etc. all would just start taking that hit with no recompense? I swear, people have no idea how retailers work.

 

[Apathy]

the same way you believe the opposite xD hahaha

Way to assume, and you clearly do not understand the difference between you coming onto a forum and posting opinions as facts vs someone not posting opinions as fact. I'm actually primarily a PC gamer and I actually like some stuff the One has and some stuff that the PS4 has, but no way am I delusional in thinking the One has "better games", regardless of how you might want to quantify what "better games"boils down to.

 

[Principate]

When retailers begin taking those kinds of discounts off of product, on such a large scale, it's usually due to the manufacture offering what's called "Vendor Credit". Best Buy negotiates that sort of thing pretty aggressively, so as not to just eat the costs, especially when our stores stop placing orders for replacement stock if the manufacturer won't accommodate those sort of deals. You think WalMart, Best Buy, Amazon, etc. all would just start taking that hit with no recompense? I swear, people have no idea how retailers work.

Pretty much even product placement in aisles cost money no one does this sort of without getting recompense in some mannrt

 

[MisterXDTV]

I suppose MS could announce cable and sat. partnerships where you get the Xbox One as a cable box for subsidized price. Would you rather have and Xbox One or a crappy Motorola box running old version of Java?

Xbox One doesn't have a Cable IN, so another box would be required....

 

[Jigorath]

Microsoft has a lot of manufactured Kinects sitting in warehouses, that's going to end up as a lot of unsold supply if they offer a Kinect-less SKU. Separating the two isn't as simple as you might think.

 

[Cloud Strife]

If they did by even 50 dollars, then it would be the same as the PS4 here in Canada. That is, if MS doesn't raise the price too.

 

[Principate]

Microsoft has a lot of manufactured Kinects sitting in warehouses, that's going to end up as a lot of unsold supply if they offer a Kinect-less SKU. Separating the two isn't as simple as you might think.

They could just ramp down production and sell them separately. Plenty buy Kinetic 2 alone on ebay so there is some demand. Plus stuff like selling it to pc like they are doing.

 

[Fallout-with-swords]

If they did by even 50 dollars, then it would be the same as the PS4 here in Canada. That is, if MS doesn't raise the price too.

I can see them just not cutting the price here in Canada when they drop in by $50 officially in America.

 

[MDSLKTR]

Funny that not a single new game announcement but a couple news about some dashboard updates, bundle firesales and an announcement that the same dude that was already responsible for all xbox games all the previous years is now in charge of the xbox brand and all of a sudden ms has enough strong wind and clean record to go for "sony's throat"

 

[Cloud Strife]

I can see them just not cutting the price here in Canada when they drop in by $50 officially in America.

Probably, right?

Damn I wish I had just bought the thing earlier. Oh well

 

[myharlequin]

Irrational hatred? The logic behind his post makes no sense. You'd have to have the Xbox One *and* a traditional box, because the Xbox One is not cable capable. It just has the HDMI in. Not only that, but providers like Comcast already have solutions that are up to date, with voice commands, apps like Netflix and native DVR function, right on the one device, without requiring a camera attatched to your home theatre set up. How is that irrational hatred?

First: Wich device requires a camera attached?
Second: The guy described an hypothetical case, If that happens I think MS will come up with solutions to all the isues that you said.

 

[jelly]

If Microsoft made Kinect optional one day the technology would continue to be more widely developed on the Windows platform than it ever will on Xbox anyway. Not being standard on Xbox is no loss. If it really does become useful and must have then people will line up for it. There has to come a point when Microsoft realise what their offering with Kinect is not good enough or doesn't appeal to consumers so make it optional while making it better.

 

[ZeroMaverick]

No way. Kinect is essential in MS's mind. We'll see big titles and some Halo stuff that they'll hope will drive sales. Don't count on a price drop.

 

[CoG]

Don't count on a price drop.

They *have* to drop the price and with the almost daily deals they unofficially have to $449 so I expect that to go official at E3 along with continuous bundle deals.

 

[Abdiel]

First: Wich device requires a camera attached?
Second: The guy described an hypothetical case, If that happens I think MS will come up with solutions to all the isues that you said.

Xbox One requires the kinect to be hooked up in order to use voice commands.

Secondly, they'd have to redesign the system to have *cable* in, and then make specific versions of the system for each provider. Digital cable providers all encrpyt their signals different ways, and a big part of the box is the translation hardware. So you're talking about completely remaking the systems, with several variants, for specific carriers of cable or satellite services, in addition to requiring a second hard drive just for DVR recordings.

 

[kmg90]

The rest of the thread is the guy in the middle of you two

GUYS, GUYS, GUYS!

Fellas, think we could just listen to the radio?

 

[jelly]

Microsoft has a lot of manufactured Kinects sitting in warehouses, that's going to end up as a lot of unsold supply if they offer a Kinect-less SKU. Separating the two isn't as simple as you might think.

Kinect 2.0 for Windows exists. They would have no trouble.

 

[FiggyCal]

Microsoft has a lot of manufactured Kinects sitting in warehouses, that's going to end up as a lot of unsold supply if they offer a Kinect-less SKU. Separating the two isn't as simple as you might think.

I've considered this as well.

I think we all have to remember that while the Xbox One hasn't sold as well as MS wanted it to (what with the massive supplies the system had earlier this year and at launch); they are still at a statistical tie with PS4. Slightly less, but not that far behind. The problem is that they are getting whipped everywhere else while tying in the U.S. Worldwide, I don't Xbox One stands a chance, but U.S. is still very possible.

Realistically, Microsoft wouldn't have to get rid of kinect and drop $100 dollars off to beat PS4 in America. All they need is a $50 dollar price cut. The thing is, I don't think Microsoft wants to sell the Xbox One at a loss for an extended period of time. Though they certainly could, it would be dumb of them considering they could just take the kinect out.

Why would they want to take kinect out? (As far as I know) Kinect games aren't doing very well, or at the very least not as well as MS anticipated.

If MS doesn't win March npd's after price cuts at multiple major retailers and arguably their biggest game of 2014 for free... Kinect will be gone by August.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Well all these stealth retailer cuts have already effectively price matched the PS4, in some cases undercutting it. It's only logical that MS will make it official soon enough.

It's going to cost them something no doubt, however I think the gained market share and Xbox LIVE subs are worth much more to them in the long run. Simple business 101.