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Will MS go for Sony's throat at E3 and undercut their PS4 MSRP ?

xbox is making profit for each system allowing it to update features and firmware quickly. Sony is losing money on each console.. how is that benefiting them in any way? Sales are great. Are devs being silenced? Why aren't they announcing big games for sony's ps4? was Sony expecting A LOT more sales than they had gotten? Perhaps.. who knows
Yes man Sony taking so much of a bath if you only buy one game over the next 5 years. Tough times to sit and wait on the money to come in just to make a firmware /s
 

Truespeed

Member
Microsoft would need to do something completely radical and game changing than a reactionary price cut. They have an underpowered system that will have the burden of inferior multiplatform games for the rest of its lifespan. There is really nothing Microsoft can do except to try and secure as many exclusives as possible and hope for the best. Besides, Microsoft's throat is busy being choked by Google.
 
So much (blind) hope in this thread.

I think people are forgetting that MS put a LOT of money into Kinect. They built the system mainly for Kinect. Yes, everyone hates it. Yes, everyone wants it gone. But the truth is, they've invested far too much into this aspect of the the all-in-one entertainment system to simply say, eh, well let's get rid of it.

I also think people are forgetting MS has made it clear they wouldn't mind having a system without a disc drive. In all honesty, you're probably going to get a system without a disc drive before you get a system without Kinect.

How about a subsidized XBox One for $299?

http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3542196/xbox-360-250gb-two-year-contract-subsidy

Or partner with someone like Comcast. One thing is clear from those at Microsoft, there won't be a Kinectless XBox One.
 

Freeman

Banned
xbox is making profit for each system allowing it to update features and firmware quickly. Sony is losing money on each console.. how is that benefiting them in any way? Sales are great. Are devs being silenced? Why aren't they announcing big games for sony's ps4? was Sony expecting A LOT more sales than they had gotten? Perhaps.. who knows

The connection you make about firmware updates make absolutely no sense, just shameful.

Where are you getting that information from anyway? MS pretty much already sells Xbox close to 400$ with Kinect included, there is no evidence to suggest that the PS4 is significantly more expensive than the Xbox One without Kinect(it might actually be cheaper to manufacture, not to mention R&D and marketing). Many games are been announced for PS4 by third party, hard to actually find a game that isn't coming to PS4 unless they have a deal with MS. How could Sony expect more sales if there consoles was pretty much sold out most of the time? They already exceed their forecast likely with more than 2m consoles.
 

jelly

Member
Cable companies want 100% control. Xbox cable box offers nothing unless it comes with a Microsoft money hat so what is the point for Microsoft, subsidising the Xbox for the cable company because they certainly have zero reason to want Xbox or help Microsoft when they already have the sector stitched up. It's never going to happen.
 

spookyfish

Member
When I hear/see "go for the throat," I automatically think about the combatant who already has the upper hand in a struggle.

That analogy does not work for MS in this case.
 

Vashetti

Banned
Microsoft has a lot of manufactured Kinects sitting in warehouses, that's going to end up as a lot of unsold supply if they offer a Kinect-less SKU. Separating the two isn't as simple as you might think.

iSLTVABsv32Ij.gif
 

Lemondish

Member
Are devs being silenced?

What do you mean by silenced? Do you mean is there a reason devs are silent today? Then the answer is yes. Wait until June.

Why aren't they announcing big games for Sony's PS4?

They have...but you should also wait until E3. There's no expectation for either Microsoft or Sony to randomly announce new titles. When was the last big Xbox game reveal?

Sony expecting A LOT more sales than they had gotten?

Entirely unlikely considering their inability to meet demand.

Sony is losing money on each console.. how is that benefiting them in any way?

It benefits them by increasing the potential market base for gamers who will buy PS4 games. Sony has managed to secure and release 50% more titles on their box than the competition, and software has a much higher margin and than console sales.
 

kinoki

Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.

Well, you do know that Microsoft most likely has a 12 month manufacturing contract where they have asked for a 1 million per month of console + kinect. Making a kinectless SKU means that every unit sold without a kinect means that there's one sitting in a warehouse that cost money to make. If they wait until the 10th month or later they can stop making more or make fewer so they don't have to have them piled up by the millions.
 

Lemondish

Member
Microsoft would need to do something completely radical and game changing than a reactionary price cut. They have an underpowered system that will have the burden of inferior multiplatform games for the rest of its lifespan. There is really nothing Microsoft can do except to try and secure as many exclusives as possible and hope for the best. Besides, Microsoft's throat is busy being choked by Google.

Grabbing up exclusives is also a difficult path fraught with danger. Microsoft has a history of securing games that remain exclusive simply because of a clause in some contract that doesn't allow a multiplatform release. Enthusiastic gamers don't tend to like this type of behaviour, no matter who does it.

Now, if they're wise they'll simply focus on selecting and funding those games that would have otherwise never been made.
 
I doubt they will undercut it. If anything there may be a Kinect-less SKU that matches it or they may just bite the bullet and drop the MSRP to match it. Worst case they make it 450 but I don't believe it will stay at 500.
 
Grabbing up exclusives is also a difficult path fraught with danger. Microsoft has a history of securing games that remain exclusive simply because of a clause in some contract that doesn't allow a multiplatform release. Enthusiastic gamers don't tend to like this type of behaviour, no matter who does it.

Now, if they're wise they'll simply focus on selecting and funding those games that would have otherwise never been made.

Not to mention, as the gap continues to grow rapidly, it'll be much more expensive to secure exclusives since Devs will be reluctant to miss out on the big PS4 install base.

Honestly, I think this gen will look pretty similar to the sixth gen.

PS4 = PS1

X1 = N64

Wii U = Saturn
 
Not to mention, as the gap continues to grow rapidly, it'll be much more expensive to secure exclusives since Devs will be reluctant to miss out on the big PS4 install base.

Honestly, I think this gen will look pretty similar to the sixth gen.

PS4 = PS1

X1 = N64

Wii U = Saturn

Isn't MS funding those 3rd party titles. That is different compared to money hat like titanfall. something like sunset overdrive is publish and funded so i can see them doing that this gen.
 
Isn't MS funding those 3rd party titles. That is different compared to money hat like titanfall. something like sunset overdrive is publish and funded so i can see them doing that this gen.

Yea, games like QB and SO are the good kind of exclusives where they wouldn't exist without MS' funding.

I was referring mainly to moneyhats like TF. Those are going to be very tough to secure going forward. MS will have to rely on funding new IPs via third party devs (like Remedy and Insomniac) or trusting their older IPs to other devs (like KI) rather than moneyhatting well known games
 
Selling slightly more than another terrible number doesn't make said terrible number matter much. Japan shouldn't even be mentioned in PS4 "dominance" unless it turns itself around.

It's still 50-60K more consoles per month world wide than what Microsoft is selling. It's not big now, but things should also turn around once the software situation gets better.

Annualized, and accounting for holiday increases, that's a million more consoles per year thanks to Japan alone, even with pretty bad performance in that region (MS will undoubtedly have much worse).
 
Isn't MS funding those 3rd party titles. That is different compared to money hat like titanfall. something like sunset overdrive is publish and funded so i can see them doing that this gen.

That is a possibility. Isn't there a rumor going around they're getting an exclusive Japanese game and that most people think its gonna be Platinum Games making it? Wouldn't surprise me if they funded that project (like how Nintendo helped with Bayonetta 2)
 

Biker19

Banned
xbox is making profit for each system allowing it to update features and firmware quickly. Sony is losing money on each console.. how is that benefiting them in any way? Sales are great. Are devs being silenced? Why aren't they announcing big games for sony's ps4? was Sony expecting A LOT more sales than they had gotten? Perhaps.. who knows

LMAO...I'm sorry, what?
 

Lemondish

Member
Not to mention, as the gap continues to grow rapidly, it'll be much more expensive to secure exclusives since Devs will be reluctant to miss out on the big PS4 install base.

Honestly, I think this gen will look pretty similar to the sixth gen.

PS4 = PS1

X1 = N64

Wii U = Saturn

I just wonder if Microsoft will react like Sony did with the PS3 and really double down on the first party studios. It seems difficult, though, as they really only have one active battleground. The brand isn't strong enough outside North America (except perhaps the UK) to play any sort of role in a comeback.
 

Endo Punk

Member
I think they need to do something drastic to even the playing field. This year they either cut the price and put their best foot forward by buying exclusivity or it will reach a point where PS4 has become the face of this gen and it will take an arm and a leg to topple.
 

Gator86

Member
I just wonder if Microsoft will react like Sony did with the PS3 and really double down on the first party studios. It seems difficult, though, as they really only have one active battleground. The brand isn't strong enough outside North America (except perhaps the UK) to play any sort of role in a comeback.

Investing in first party studios is a longer term strategy though. It's hard to just pop out a Naughty Dog. Plus it seems like MS prefers the money hat strategy, especially in the early going.
 

Salex_

Member
I just wonder if Microsoft will react like Sony did with the PS3 and really double down on the first party studios. It seems difficult, though, as they really only have one active battleground. The brand isn't strong enough outside North America (except perhaps the UK) to play any sort of role in a comeback.

I see no reason why they can't build up their first party studios. We see people talking about their "warchest" and how they have unlimited funds, so why can't they use it? The last few years of the 360 exclusives were a joke compared to Sony/Nintendo who made exclusives for both their consoles and handhelds.
This is what happens when a console relies only on a few regions to sell. A company with a console that is cheaper, more powerful, and more world wide appeal comes in and outcompetes you, then you are in trouble. They have no other places to fall back on. It's like when an animal relies on only on area to survive and another species that Is faster and stronger moves in and outcompetes it in resources. The original animal faces extinction because it has no established populations outside that one area. That's how I see the xbox.

Are you moist? lol
 

EGM1966

Member
Seems unlikely I reckon.

I doubt the suits at MS would be thrilled at running up huge losses again with Xbox hardware for a start. The third gen was supposed to be where the money really starts rolling in and they dominate - not when they have to eat margin just to gain market-share.

Also MS have been declaring that sales relative to the 360 are fine. Would be a big PR issue if they cut the price that steeply without a lot of decent PR setup as it would be taken as an admission of failure in the market so far and would also cast doubts on earlier statements.

I reckon they might shave the price a bit but not nearly that much. I guess they might cut Kinect too which would be the easiest way to cut price without unduly hurting revenue.
 

Cueil

Banned
Seems unlikely I reckon.

I doubt the suits at MS would be thrilled at running up huge losses again with Xbox hardware for a start. The third gen was supposed to be where the money really starts rolling in and they dominate - not when they have to eat margin just to gain market-share.

Also MS have been declaring that sales relative to the 360 are fine. Would be a big PR issue if they cut the price that steeply without a lot of decent PR setup as it would be taken as an admission of failure in the market so far and would also cast doubts on earlier statements.

I reckon they might shave the price a bit but not nearly that much. I guess they might cut Kinect too which would be the easiest way to cut price without unduly hurting revenue.

looks like this temporary price cut may just stick around as a stealth price cut... they're making money off of it
 

N.Domixis

Banned
This is what happens when a console relies only on a few regions to sell. A company with a console that is cheaper, more powerful, and more world wide appeal comes in and outcompetes you, then you are in trouble. They have no other places to fall back on. It's like when an animal relies on only on area to survive and another species that Is faster and stronger moves in and outcompetes it in resources. The original animal faces extinction because it has no established populations outside that one area. That's how I see the xbox.
 

kinoki

Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
looks like this temporary price cut may just stick around as a stealth price cut... they're making money off of it

No, they're losing money until consumers buy 5-6 games and or subscribe to Xbox Gold for an unspecified amount of time.
 

Lemondish

Member
Investing in first party studios is a longer term strategy though. It's hard to just pop out a Naughty Dog. Plus it seems like MS prefers the money hat strategy, especially in the early going.

Certainly, but its clear at this point that it won't be as viable for them moving forward. Furthermore, there was a lot of talk from the party faithful about something like $1 billion being invested into first party development. If that's the case, then I'd like to think that they're well one their way to achieving this. Keep in mind that Sony's best years with the PS3 didn't start until 2009, nearly three years after the launch. Microsoft may prefer that strategy, but its one that benefits the guy in the lead, not the runner up.

Money hats can help buy time until those new studios are ready, but as a predominantly Sony focused gamer I eagerly want to see Microsoft compete in this space. I don't care for Halo, Gears, and Forza, and since those titles are such a vast majority of their first party output, I obviously lose interest. Losing Black Tusk to a (imo) tired franchise isn't a great start, either.
 

Freeman

Banned
Now that Titanfall has come and gone without as much of an impact as many predicted, I wonder how the deals Sony made with Ubisoft and Activision to promote WD, Destiny, Diablo and probably the next AC will affect XO/PS4 sales in the next few months.All that combined with superior versions is a powerful combination.

So far the PS4 has sold this year between double and triple the number of units the XO has sold and that was with all the Titanfall hype and promotion.

MS can't afford to "lose" this E3.
 

kyser73

Member
When retailers begin taking those kinds of discounts off of product, on such a large scale, it's usually due to the manufacture offering what's called "Vendor Credit". Best Buy negotiates that sort of thing pretty aggressively, so as not to just eat the costs, especially when our stores stop placing orders for replacement stock if the manufacturer won't accommodate those sort of deals. You think WalMart, Best Buy, Amazon, etc. all would just start taking that hit with no recompense? I swear, people have no idea how retailers work.

I'm UKgaf but I would imagine retailers do similar sale-or-return deals in the US - would MS have the muscle to avoid those?

I've forgotten the pie chart of 'who takes the money' for consoles, but I remember from my own time in multiple retail management training that the one thing to avoid as much as possible was being lumbered with non-selling products, and that price discounting was a normal route for shifting stuff that wasn't on SoR, even at the expense of margin.
 

Averon

Member
This is what happens when a console relies only on a few regions to sell. A company with a console that is cheaper, more powerful, and more world wide appeal comes in and outcompetes you, then you are in trouble. They have no other places to fall back on. It's like when an animal relies on only on area to survive and another species that Is faster and stronger moves in and outcompetes it in resources. The original animal faces extinction because it has no established populations outside that one area. That's how I see the xbox.

What's even more baffling is how MS double down on NA and the UK (moreso NA) with the initial plans they had for the XB1. The initial XB1 was very much an 'American Box' and little else.

You'd think MS would try to build off the momentum they had with the 360 to really expand the Xbox brand worldwide, unseating the PlayStation brand for good. But they did the exact opposite.
 

Biker19

Banned
Your obviously delusional. I don't know how you came up with this, as if ROI and investors don't matter at all.

No, Microsoft absolutely CANNOT do this. MS is a big company, but they're fighting off fierce competition in just about all sectors right now.

Bing is still struggling against Google.
Windows phone is nearly irrelevant in the smartphone space.
Windows 8 doesn't have the marketshare of 7, as consumers move to tablets.
Surface, their tablet offering is joke tier next to the iPad and galaxy devices.
Even office is fighting off competition from Google's free offerings.

Microsoft makes nearly no revenue at all from the Xbox in the BEST of times, and is under pressure to sell off or kill divisions that arent profitable. Losing hundreds of dollars per unit to "win" a space that's not that important to their bottom line isn't happening, and they need their cash reserves to stay flexible in the spaces that ACTUALLY matter.

These. If Microsoft happens to take as many losses for Xbox One like they did for the Original Xbox or like Sony did with PS3, their investors will most likely force Microsoft to drop the Xbox brand.

They're not gonna tolerate huge losses for three generations in a row (including with the Xbox 360 from 2005-2007; $1 Billion RROD loss included).
 

Lemondish

Member
Now that Titanfall has come and gone without as much of an impact as many predicted, I wonder how the deals Sony made with Ubisoft and Activision to promote WD, Destiny, Diablo and probably the next AC affect XO/PS4 sales in the next few months.All that combined with superior versions is a powerful combination.

MS can't afford to "lose" this E3.

I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised. I'm a predominantly Sony fan, but I can appreciate great games when I see them. Also, as a Sony fan, I know exactly what it was like every year hearing about how Sony couldn't afford to lose E3. Microsoft could fail to show anything of worth and I don't think it would have much of an impact. After all, it would just be confirming what we think we already know - that they're in trouble.

I'm not sure which platform holder is in a better position. Sony doesn't want to do anything that might reduce their momentum, and Microsoft has to overcome the negativity surrounding their brand.
 

StoopKid

Member
With MS's cash reserves, they could cut the price to $1 and win the gen whenever they want. As you say, they're in this for the long haul and they are willing to sacrifice everything the company has earned up to this point to win console warz.

Obviously they're just toying with Sony right now...

This thread man.
 

Cueil

Banned
It's already heading that way

One company is going to lose 1.1 billion dollars... the other company has more cash then the first company is worth... I'll let you figure it out. There will not be a 2:1 sale ration this generation no matter how many sony ponies get out of their stables. It's also not healthy for the industry.
 
One company is going to lose 1.1 billion dollars... the other company has more cash then the first company is worth... I'll let you figure it out. There will not be a 2:1 sale ration this generation no matter how many sony ponies get out of their stables. It's also not healthy for the industry.

Are you actually serious dude?
 
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