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[cormack12]

So we know Sony went large on their SSD because of the limitations of speed at the time. But like most things PCs weren't far behind and during the PS5 development and construction then surpassed the-then speed requirements. And we're now seeing more and more games require an SSD which is a good thing. If we look back at their presentation for the original PS5 then there was a reason it was designed in such a way and why the size came out so specifically (825GB) - relevant chapters of the Road to PS5:






I don't have the details for the Pro, but hoping someone else might have. The reason we hit 825GB, was 12 lanes x 512Gb nand. I assume the Pro has a higher amount storage per chip (~160GB) to persist twelve lanes.
Edit: winjer clarified the revisions here: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/will...oving-core-technology.1680061/#post-270052302


And then we come to PSSR, which is great for a first iteration but still has the same limitations and issues as other upscalers. But it's fair to say that FSR looks like it will eclipse PSSR v.x that we currently know. The question now is has FSR 4 made such a significant leap that there is still a need to Sony to pursue PSSR so aggressively? Cerny did speak about licensing costs I think regarding this which may be one factor to continue?

Ultimately, will the PS6 be better served with Sony continuing their strategy of 'best of breed' with their own technologies or adopting the inherent advances in base SSD and upscaling?

 

[ThisIsMyDog]

 

[winjer]

Newer revisions for the PS5 and the Pro use 8 channels, but with faster nand.

 

[cormack12]

Newer revisions for the PS5 and the Pro use 8 channels, but with faster nand.

Thanks! Any articles?

 

[yogaflame]

Abour PSSR in ps5 pro, Pssr ml is growing into a beast at a fast pace, in its 3rd month and very much designed for console environment so there is no point about to change it.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Abour PSSR in ps5 pro, Pssr ml is growing into a beast at a fast pace, its just 3rd its month and very much designed for console environment so there is no point about to change it.

People don't understand the purpose of PSSR being a console-specific ML tech. The consistency of their approach is going to pay dividends on a limited production line, especially as they improve it over time. Will they surpass DLSS? Probably not, but they don't need to.

The one thing I wish they could implement was auto updating, but I can see why they wouldn't. I wish devs could opt into it though.

PSSR is going to be the cornerstone of the PlayStation handheld and the PS6.

 

[cormack12]

The one thing I wish they could implement was auto updating, but I can see why they wouldn't. I wish devs could opt into it though.

Auto update would be a bad idea in most scenarios until it's really, really mature. I speak from many terrible experiences where someone has pushed an uodate to prod for a minor change and then the phones light up.

There's no reason why a small update can't be pushed though with a toggle for new versions though

 

[Elios83]

Talking about GPU only the answer was already given by Cerny.
AMD and Sony have started a deep partership and will co-design future hardware/features with a focus on AI and ray tracing/path tracing with project Amethist and this is not meant to be PS exclusive.
So future solutions should converge because they'll be co-designed.

Other aspects of the console (audio, storage, controller, gimmicks) will be defined by Sony.

 

[rofif]

continue

 

[yogaflame]

I

People don't understand the purpose of PSSR being a console-specific ML tech. The consistency of their approach is going to pay dividends on a limited production line, especially as they improve it over time. Will they surpass DLSS? Probably not, but they don't need to.

The one thing I wish they could implement was auto updating, but I can see why they wouldn't. I wish devs could opt into it though.

PSSR is going to be the cornerstone of the PlayStation handheld and the PS6.

Improve denoising and frame gen is its next evolution and I believe by this year it will be achieve. But I think denoising will be the priority of learning this year next will be better frame gen.

 

[Mahavastu]

PSSR: very likely, improved over time. Maybe join team with AMD, probably adding things like frame generations. In the end for the dev it seems not to really matter, since it will do the pretty much the same and the API calls will be very similar, so switching to new tech will be easy.
SSD: not sure if Sony needs to do its own here next gen, since now there should be very similar tech of the shelfs. I guess they will have something better in the PS6, but they do not have to do it themself.

 

[RGB'D]

I imagine that they will be looking to integrate a framework that would to easier to adapt their software to PC. With Xbox falling out of the industry and the incoming tariffs/economic recession, PC will be the vector for expansion and SONY continues to increase PC support already. So probably not proprietary on their end.

 

[Bojji]

Pro probably can't run FSR4 because it lacks new ML hardware (Sony solution is custom)? Same is true for RDNA3 desktop gpus.

So PSSR will evolve and improve on PS5 Pro hardware between now and ~2030 (apex of cross gen).

But PS6 for sure will have hardware for FSR4/5 so co-developing with AMD would be quite smart move IMO.

 

[Darkkahn]

Was there a video explaining the road to the PS5?

 

[Robb]

I don’t see why they wouldn’t continue, having their own upscaling model is a very smart move imo and it’ll only get better over time.

But I’m certainly no expert on any of this.

 

[Horseganador]

I think they will continue with PSSR for PS6, it seems that Sony wants to collaborate with AMD to have their own AI solution before leaving everything in the hands of AMD and depending on a third party.

 

[Loxus]

Pro probably can't run FSR4 because it lacks new ML hardware (Sony solution is custom)? Same is true for RDNA3 desktop gpus.

So PSSR will evolve and improve on PS5 Pro hardware between now and ~2030 (apex of cross gen).

But PS6 for sure will have hardware for FSR4/5 so co-developing with AMD would be quite smart move IMO.

FSR4 should be able to work on PS5 Pro and RDNA3.

RDNA3 uses 1st gen AI Accelerators while RDNA4 now uses 2nd gen AI Accelerators.

 

[Sebastian1295]

The ps5 pro is essentially being used to test the beta version of PSSR. PSSR is being used on the ps5 pro to test it and improve upon it over time so that when the ps6 is ready to launch a couple of years from now, PSSR will be utilized more effectively for it and provide it with an excellent upscaling technology. I don't see why sony would move away from their own upscaler when there's 0 reason to do so especially because they've invested so much into it and it's pretty good considering how new it is.

 

[Bojji]

FSR4 should be able to work on PS5 Pro and RDNA3.

RDNA3 uses 1st gen AI Accelerators while RDNA4 now uses 2nd gen AI Accelerators.

Pro is using custom tech (designed in ~2020) for ML, I doubt it has much in common with RDNA3 or 4.

Only RDNA4 part are RT cores.

 

[noob smokes]

Bring back CELL

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Auto update would be a bad idea in most scenarios until it's really, really mature. I speak from many terrible experiences where someone has pushed an uodate to prod for a minor change and then the phones light up.

There's no reason why a small update can't be pushed though with a toggle for new versions though

Like I said, I wish devs could opt into it.

I'd much rather there be occasional issues rather than old games never getting updated.

Ultimately, we'll have to see how often old games get updated and how involved the update process is, i.e. whether it can be updated outside of updating the entire SDK.

 

[cormack12]

Like I said, I wish devs could opt into it.

I'd much rather there be occasional issues rather than old games never getting updated.

Ultimately, we'll have to see how often old games get updated and how involved the update process is, i.e. whether it can be updated outside of updating the entire SDK.

If it cam be updated without a recompile that would be ideal. And then an option can be pushed to the games just on a drop down which says

Use shipped PSSR
Use latest PSSR (unsupported)

Would be a good compromise for those of us open to the updates.

 

[omegasc]

Too early to tell the state of PSSR vs FSR4 when it's released. We should see it at least on the PS6. Being a console specific tech might make it better, even if the end result might not keep up with PC latest stuff, which is impossible given there's new products every year.
That said, I think PoE2 has also updated to the latest PSSR version as some more obvious instabilities aren't that present anymore. Maybe GT7 will also use a new one on the next patch and we will see how it performs with ray tracing noise now.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Pro is using custom tech (designed in ~2020) for ML, I doubt it has much in common with RDNA3 or 4.

Only RDNA4 part are RT cores.

Custom RDNA meaning? There is wiggle room there, but I guess it is indeed optimised for PSSR and not FSR4, but we will see if FSR4 can run on it at all or not.

 

[squidilix]

I mean, they have no choice if they want backward compatibility.

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

People don't understand the purpose of PSSR being a console-specific ML tech. The consistency of their approach is going to pay dividends on a limited production line, especially as they improve it over time. Will they surpass DLSS? Probably not, but they don't need to.

The one thing I wish they could implement was auto updating, but I can see why they wouldn't. I wish devs could opt into it though.

PSSR is going to be the cornerstone of the PlayStation handheld and the PS6.

Apparently AMDs FSR4 is quite good so that bodes well for console bros. I imagine there will be some overlap between AMDs upscaling solution and PSSR.

 

[Bojji]

Custom RDNA meaning? There is wiggle room there, but I guess it is indeed optimised for PSSR and not FSR4, but we will see if FSR4 can run on it at all or not.

Yeah, it could be anything.

They planned what they wanted in 2020 when there was almost no ML on AMD GPUs:

They kept RDNA2 for base raster, they also included RDNA4 parts for RT (probably late in development) but what about that ML stuff from RDNA3/RDNA4? Who knows besides Cerny and his team...

 

[Loxus]

Pro is using custom tech (designed in ~2020) for ML, I doubt it has much in common with RDNA3 or 4.

Only RDNA4 part are RT cores.

Notice it says custom RDNA for ML. Which implies it using ML from the RDNA architecture.

 

[Felessan]

But like most things PCs weren't far behind and during the PS5 development and construction then surpassed the-then speed requirements.

SSD was not only about raw speed but the whole stack, and PC is still largely lag behind even now. On PC data go to memory, decompress using CPU and only then copied to GPU, some extra latency and workload compared to console solution. It's just PC has an option to brute force things, as usual.

 

[Audiophile]

I'd just bump the SSD up from PCIe 4 @ ~5.5GB/s RAW to PCIE 5 @ ~12GB/s RAW.

By ~2028 PCIe 6 will be better established and the [then] last gen will provide some prolonged cost savings, while still giving a comfortable bump to throughput. The PS5 storage solution was such a gargantuan leap in every respect and no one is really using the full speed of it >4yrs in, so I wouldn't make it an area of major focus this time. They did all the hard work this gen. Just a straight 2x across the chips, interface, i/o, cache and decomp should suffice; and then focus every penny they can on the CPU & GPU.

 

[Physiognomonics]

People don't understand the purpose of PSSR being a console-specific ML tech. The consistency of their approach is going to pay dividends on a limited production line, especially as they improve it over time. Will they surpass DLSS? Probably not, but they don't need to.

The one thing I wish they could implement was auto updating, but I can see why they wouldn't. I wish devs could opt into it though.

PSSR is going to be the cornerstone of the PlayStation handheld and the PS6.

Exactly. PSSR and their ML hardware are 100% designed and owned by Sony. The same way their I/O tech (and tools) and liquid metal cooling are. This way they can produce it without paying licenses to anyone for years to come. Sony are the only ones still doing exotic consoles because it's less expensive to make (in the millions of unit) and they can control everything from performance, cost, tools and APIs. And it's easier to improve over the years.

 

[Schmendrick]

SSD was not only about raw speed but the whole stack, and PC is still largely lag behind even now. On PC data go to memory, decompress using CPU and only then copied to GPU, some extra latency and workload compared to console solution. It's just PC has an option to brute force things, as usual.

Wrong...
Ever heard of DirectStorage? That´s been available for a while now on PC. It´s up to the Devs.

 

[Parazels]

PS5 PRO is basically a PS5 + PSSR, which takes the extra 6 teraflops. You can't expect yet something extraordinary from this combo.

However, PS6 will have a much better starting position it terms of raw power and software.

 

[RoboFu]

Now if they made their own cpu/gpu again then I would be excited.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Exactly. PSSR and their ML hardware are 100% designed and owned by Sony. The same way their I/O tech (and tools) and liquid metal cooling are. This way they can produce it without paying licenses to anyone for years to come. Sony are the only ones still doing exotic consoles because it's less expensive to make (in the millions of unit) and they can control everything from performance, cost, tools and APIs. And it's easier to improve over the years.

I think Sony and Valve are in a race against each other.

At some point they'll both have a console, handheld, PC storefront, vr headset.

Valve's major advantage is their complete dominance over PC SteamOS, SteamVR, and the massive back catalog of titles, including many Sony titles.

Sony's major advantage is their dominance in the console space, cloud gaming, PS+, their position with retailers, their history of handhelds, and their massive advantage in their studio business group to include their ability to publish tv and movies for their properties.

Sony has a hardware and game development advantage and Valve has a software advantage. Both are pretty difficult to overcome.

 

[winjer]

FSR4 should be able to work on PS5 Pro and RDNA3.

RDNA3 uses 1st gen AI Accelerators while RDNA4 now uses 2nd gen AI Accelerators.

Seems like it doesn't.

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-fsr4-dll-spotted-in-unofficial-radeon-drivers-support-for-rdna4-only

In late December, AMD released a trial driver that includes a new file called “amdxcffx64.dll.” As it turns out, this file is an early implementation of FSR4 (FidelityFX Super Resolution 4), which is set to launch alongside the Radeon RX 9070 series later this quarter.

The file was analyzed by Osvaldo Pinali Doederlein, who confirmed that it contains implementations of both FSR 4.0 and FSR 3.1. The FSR 4.0 implementation is significantly larger (17 MB) compared to the older technology (6.5 MB). According to Osvaldo, FSR4 utilizes a machine-taught algorithm with an 8-bit floating-point implementation. Only RDNA4 is reported to support WMMA (Wave Matrix Multiply Accumulate), which is required for this level of precision.

 

[Bojji]

Seems like it doesn't.

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-fsr4-dll-spotted-in-unofficial-radeon-drivers-support-for-rdna4-only

Maybe they will make dumbed down version for earlier RDNA using different precision. Kinda like XeSS.